[To assist us in bringing this matter to a close, you must give us a reason why you are rejecting the responseIf no reason is received your complaint will be closed Administratively Resolved] Complaint: [redacted] I am rejecting this response because: I was told on the phone the day of purchase that my dog would be $if I was interestedI went to the facility knowing I'd pay at least $My point was that they dropped the price from the website price to $for me on the phoneWhen I arrived there they would not reduce the price again due to his conditionThe scar (not scab) that the dog had on him at time of purchase is a classic scar from mange hair loss which I learned during this whole processMange can attack localized area and then become dormant only to attack again throughout the dog's lifeI think their puppies deserve more attention with such signs & symptoms Anne from the start immediately denied it was the kennel's fault without seeing the pet & offered every excuse possibleWITHOUT SEEING MY DOG I'm assuming because they are always threatened with litigation when that was not my intentionI cared about my puppy She did notThey should care more about all their puppies they release She was rude & not listening to anything I had to say I found her to be a liar with every interactionShe invited me up to their vet knowing that they couldn't do anything for me the day I came up for a diagnosis of mange I NEVER told her the dog was previously scraped (he was NOT scraped) prior to my interaction with their vet I told her on the phone that something was wrong with my dog & I had looked up mange on the internet & my dog's worsening condition at that time looked just like it So I wouldn't go see my own vet that day, she did offer their services for a visit -free of charge for an ASSESSMENT & TREATMENT I didn't receive anything but a waste of time because they denied mange and said, "we don't know what it is." NO TESTING/ NO TREATMENT! Anne is full of excuses Over many conversations, I've heard her lies so I wasn't surprised when she wasted my time and offered yet another excuse = they wouldn't scrape that day because their vet wasn't "set up" to do anything Another excuse I would hear MANY TIMES on several occasions from both ANNE and owner, the owner is very ill & can't address the problem Anne will speak of my anger & hostility My level of anger was appropriate when dealing with her over timeI wanted Kimbertal to be responsible breeders and love their puppies & deal respectfully with me since they sold me a puppy that had already experienced localized attack of mange on its back Anne kept yelling, "Prove it!!!!" I find Kimbertal's business tactics nothing more than a huge puppy factory / mill the way they make litters of pups They hide behind a contract that has every loop hole to work at their advantage not what's best for the dog (forget about the consumer) They breed & sell with no real, genuine regard Their bottom line = return the dog for any reasonThat attitude is patheticThey would only destroy "damaged goods." Their answer= "Prove it!!!!" I love DobermansI know of other breed dog breeders that help assist with medical burdens (even costs) when their puppies have health issues (hereditary issues, stressors passed from mom to pup during feeding, etc.) for the love of their breed and bloodline Kimbertal wants to brag about how long they've been in business and how many dogs they have bred, but they don't really care about their dogs once sale has occurred They say they are the best when really they fall short on the scale and do not deserve to be in company with reputable breeders I feel that for how many "wonderful & healthy dogs" they pump out, when "one sickly pup" occurs (that's how they've nonchalantly referred to my dog), it would only be right to care for the pup and its healthy outcome I feel for that reason, there are far more cases of mange they hear aboutYes, I am angry & frustrated because my puppy had / has mangeYes, mange is an expensive disease to deal with long termKimbertal showed no concern for his suffering which was the worstThey have no respect for nor care about the consumerThey don't care about the energy it takes to care for a sick dog like this, my expenses, the loss of time from work, nor the time it's now taking me to fight this cause and injusticeMy goal really is about making change there at KimbertalI feel when a company does wrong there should be some retribution Unfortunately, the only way these companies feel it is through their bank accountI would prefer to see them shut down over anything else, but I'm being realistic that with all existing puppy mills - this is highly unlikelyThe sad truth is they've been around for yearsI've mentioned from day to Anne, I am capable of providing care for my dog, but it is the ongoings at Kimbertal that leaves me seeking some sort of retribution that will have an impact & last a lifetime My dog deserved betterAll their dogs deserve betterThey shouldn't be able to just simply walk away from such horrible circumstances Anne will have you believe I'm some sort of consumer having fun raping them for any amount of money This is furthest from the truth 1- She told me to contact her if I ever needed medication for mange2- I didn't need any mange related healthcare until mid May (the reason for my sparse interaction during some time)Therefore, I contacted her again to provide her a health update on my dogAt that time I questioned the status of the sire, bh, & siblings for the FIRST TIME EVER Anne was ignorant to their statusesShe will have u believe they were proactive from my first diagnosis of mange & looked into them, but I don't feel they looked into itI can't trust what she offers so I would like an agency to CONFIRM her statements and FIND OUT about their health When I spoke to Anne and the owner in June, the owner told me because of my dog's circumstances, he created a new policy that all new customers would have to sign regarding nutrition(I feel this nutrition subject is just another EXCUSE they provide so they don't have to discuss = 1) hereditary 2) poor genetics / immunity 3) not really knowing most of their parents' surroundings / homes before coming to their site to breed & deliver puppies 4) they didn't want to find a real reason for my dog's scar / hair loss day of purchase before selling him 5)the passing of mites from bh to pup during the time a pup feeds from bh They rather look for ANY OTHER REASON to blame the consumer or "life's circumstances." (Nutrition, vaccines, neutering.) My dog's first attack occurred on their site! So their variables they blurt out are insignificant at best I am a registered nurse & I understand with all life form - illness & disease happensA dog will become old and a breeder should not be responsible for every disease, illness, accident the dog will endure Examples: Fractures, cataracts, arthritis etc I've had other pets that needed care for hypothyroidism, diabetes, and pancreas problems I provided their care physically & financially I didn't feel the breeders were responsible, report them to agencies, nor demand retribution of any kindIronically, the dog that had hypothyroidism was a doberman I purchased from Kimbertal in Prior to buying my present pup, I've heard & have read so many bad reviews about Kimbertal & was reluctant to go there again, but my husband believed you can't believe everything you read He said for every bad review there may be a good oneAgainst my better judgement, I went with Kimbertal I did contact other agencies, news outlets, and made plenty reviews on websites myself, hoping this story might help the next disbeliever Again, I don't enjoy the time it is taking me to deal with this problem and having to reach out via organizations & media to provide my truths, but I am determined to because of this injusticeI am an animal loverI am a very busy person involved in many activities which also serves as a reason why I can't deal with this issue constantllyTherefore , Anne doesn't hear from me daily I have a life Albeit, a life made more stressful caring for a sick dogWhen I see I am not alone & I read about other bad incidents that Kimbertal should be rectifying, I must try to make the situation better Anne speaks about my attempt as if I would do this for a hobby To conclude: My dog suffered from PUPPY DEMODEX MANGE showing signs from the first day I saw him Fact: He was a sick pupHe never was an energetic puppy so I could not use his energy level as a sign of anything I thought it was maybe due to growth spurts or he had a calm puppy personality, but now I know it was lethargyHe tried to fight the mites off for several weeks I didn't know anything about mange so I did not address the GRADUAL hair loss right awayWhen I did, it was very late & he suffered mange throughout his entire bodyHe had attack while he lived at Kimbertal in a localized area on his back!!!!! Regardless of any response from the kennel, the back scar is from mange which he had THERE! Again, Kimbertal will say, return him or prove it! The second attack was the generalized mange which they provided some monies for the first scrapings & first time medication ($200)The third attack was May I'm praying somebody or something holds Kimbertal responsible for their poor business actions & lack of treatment of these sick puppies in need I also don't want another consumer to have to listen to their snide - "Prove It!" Regards, [redacted]
I understand that ** *** wants "retribution and feels she has been slighted We have tried to be more than generous with *** *** Again, we have refunded over $to ** *** and well past the days stated in the PA Puppy Lemon Law Her
purchase price was $and she has that back We let her keep the dog which is also above the state law This goes beyond even our
lifetime replacement guarantee We thought that this would make the situation better but now she wants double what she paid and we think she would still be over the top angry about it I do not understand why she feels that a puppy
sold in good faith and with just a scar, not ill should have been reduced even
more. I am sure that if we did reduce him more it would be said we did so
knowing he was ill. We did not go lower and the puppy's first outbreak of
mange was three months after he left here...possibly after a rabies or other
trigger. We do not know but he had no illness when he left here. He was a
sweet, laid back puppy I contacted our vet who is away for the
holiday weekend and he remembers what was said
during the initial visit since even that is now being contested. In an earlier
conversation it was stated that ** *** did not feel Dr D*** was a vet and
asked for proof since he had no equipment to
scrape the skin. ** *** and Dr D*** spoke about this and then about diet
and allergies. I see now that she denies knowing any of this
$is the bottom price we sell our doberman
puppies for and this was the agreed on price before ** *** came for the
puppy (Please note that deposits are totally refundable so ** *** would
have not lost any money if she was concerned and backed out of purchasing her
puppy) We had just dropped the price in order to move the puppies that were
here into forever homes. We did not come down on the price below $2000,
that is true.
A scar is not mange and yes puppies and kids can have scars on knees,
elbows, ribs, etc since they have moms and littermates and play. We have an
adult rottweiler that comes for visits here who had a large scar on her ribs at
tail docking and still does, with no mange or health issues. Since the scar on
this puppy was not crusty, itchy, red, moist or showing any signs of being
anything other than a scar we did not scrape it. The scar made no changes in
the time that the puppy was here and the pup was seen at *** *** Vet
Hospital for a physical and cropping. They ausulate the hearts and go over the
pups and the vets there had no concerns about the small scar or spot
either.
Despite the term "liar" that ** *** continually calls
me(as well as other things) I am stating facts as clearly as I can from an
incident almost a year ago *** *** can contact the AKC to verify that the
sire of her dog has not been bred since August of or if as responsible breeders
we took the financial loss and are not using a popular and beautiful stud. We
are sorry that this happened but this woman states on her complaint that she has
smeared us on every website she has found, called
consumer lines, etc, even though we gave her back her $and let her keep the dog. I am sure that she
will continue to do so no matter what we do. *** *** also stated to me
while screaming at me angrily that she had also contacted and attorney so that
is where the mention of litigation came from. I do not know why when we were
giving her back her money and offering her free medication I would be yelling
"Prove it!" at her since we had already sent her money. She has nothing to prove
she was given a full refund and allowed to keep her beloved pet
I have tried very hard to not raise my voice with her. It has been
difficult when I am told that people who she talks to about this
and me call me stupid and more derogatory termsObviously, I also have never said the kennel has no fault in this since we offered
to buy all needed medication and we have given her a full refund She has now cashed the check for the balance of $ This proves
that we are trying to do our part along with retiring a champion who produces
beautiful puppiesNo other breeders would not have gone to the extent of what we have We have offered her other articles into things that stress
the immune system and on upgrading the puppy's diet to improve it's immune
system. This is not to throw off blame but to help the puppy. In ** ***'s
phone call before her vacation she stated that the money did not matter she
wanted us to pay, "Unfortunately, the only way to make these companies pay is through their bank accounts". In her complaint she wants retribution and although we are
sorry for her problems, she has a dog and her money while we have neither and a
stud we do not use There was another employee in the office when ** *** came for her return visit Neither Dr D***, the other employee or myself have ever seen demodec show up in the form of hives or bumps like what were present on this puppy Three of us were present and all can vouch that no one yelled at her, or blamed herThanks, Kimbertal Staff
We did sell *** *** a doberman puppy in August of The puppy was $but he claimed our 10% military discount and paid $plus taxes on his credit card (Please note that he has contacted his credit card company and is claiming he did not get the dog
This is in dispute also.)We have a lifetime satisfaction guarantee which allows the customer to return a puppy for any reason and get a replacement or a certificate for a replacement when the situation is more stable to get a puppy No where on the guarantee does it offer a refund upon returning a puppy, especially months after purchase when the puppy often needs extensive training and work to rehome it This is done at our expense and we often have to sell as a reduced price Apparently, *** *** works in another state and goes home on the weekends with the puppy We actually received an email prior to the pup being returned talking about the situation See below from *** @***.com
(Good Evening,
I'm writing to you with hopes that maybe there is
something that you can do to help this puppyI have limited information, but
I'm hoping maybe it's enoughA few months ago a man by the name of ***
purchased a male doberman puppy from youHe named him ***, but I don't know
what his registered name isNot only has this poor dog not received the proper
time and attention that he needs to thrivehe's been kept in a medium sized
dog crate with no plastic pan on the bottom WITH a lead around his neckHe lays
on the wires and can't even stand upHis legs stick out from underneath the
door because he has grown much too large for the crateAdditionally, my
neighbor and I have recently seen *** beat ***physically in the
backyard of his sister's homeI believe *** lives in Virginia (per the
license plate on his car), however he spends a lot of time in Baltimore at my
neighbor's residenceI'm doberman lover myself as I've owned them in the past,
and have one now*** is trying to find *** a home...but not without a
costHe's selling him for 1,dollarsCurrently *** is in Baltimore, in a
townhouse with other dogs (puppies -- I believe--and adult pitbulls)
I'm not familiar with your purchase contract but I know when I purchased my
girl, we were required to return her to the breeder should we ever have any
issues or change of heart. A coworker of mine recently purchased a puppy from
you as well and suggested I reach out to youNot sure that this will help much,
but at least I can say that I've tried.)
*** stated that the baby in the house was becoming mobile and the dog would growl at him when he crawled over to his crate, perhaps because the feet were sticking out I was not here when the dog was returned but called him the next day as the employees here promised When I spoke to him about the email ** *** became verbally abusive and swore liberally at me He slammed the phone down He was issued a replacement certificate as out guaranteeWe can not have pups in the kennel all the time when all our pups are home raised and socialized which is why we did issue a replacement certificate and told ** *** that this week we would have at least males to choose from Since it is his circumstances in the home creating the issue and he seems unwilling to work on the problem with the current dog I do not know why he would get his money back He can get a replacement even though we advised him to wait until the baby and puppies in the home issue was resolved Why should we be penalized when we are doing more than any other kennel would?
[To assist us in bringing this matter to a close, you must give us a reason why you are rejecting the response. If no reason is received your complaint will be closed Administratively Resolved]
Complaint: [redacted]
I am rejecting this response because:
#1 they did give me $1800 which I had to cash AFTER vacation! Anne would have you believe there was some sort of conspiracy on my part in cashing the check that I feel was owed to me. There wasn't any plot on my part. As mentioned previously, I am very busy in addition to taking care of one of their mange-y offsprings.
#2 They've refunded me $1800 minus $200 for my initial vet bill which I feel I'm owed the full $2000.00 because they wasted my time in trying to get my dog diagnosed & treated correctly & because he was such a sick puppy.
They told me from the beginning they would pay the $200 vet expense.
If they are to fully refund me for the dog, that would be $2000.00 regardless of the vet bill they agreed upon paying.
I understand that Kimbertal will lie about everything and anything that transpired as to stay in business as evidenced by their statements of conversation that allegedly took place between the vet & myself.
I never had a conversation with him other than to hear him say he had no clue what was wrong with my dog & that he couldn't test him that day. The majority of my interaction has been with Anne. (I had two conversations with the owner as well, but no real in depth conversation with their vet. In all honesty, I had no real conversation with the owner of any substance because the man is so hard of hearing he had to put somebody else on the telephone each time & I wasn't willing to tell my story all over again.)
I feel because they are willing to lie & because if by circumstance the sire / bh stopped breeding - not because they reached out to put a stop to it, but coincidentally stopped, Kimbertal is dangerous to new puppies and their consumers.
For that reason, I feel I'm owed my $200, but more importantly, I feel some group needs to go in and investigate Kimbertal more thoroughly. They are very well protected with their disgusting contract, facade of caring, lemon law, & "life's circumstances" excuse.
In addition to my full refund (Missing $200), it's now about the care or really the neglect Kimbertal dispalys for their bloodline once the consumer's check is cashed on days of purchase.
For that reason, regardless of their denials of my truths. I will continue the process I've laid out before me to spread the word they are Not reputable breeders. Yes, my actions may be slow in response because I'm consumed with taking care of my dog when not at my full time nursing job, but I will get more of my letters & phone calls out as soon as possible. I feel Kimbertal is hopeful that every consumer they've wronged will just tire out. I'm sure that has also helped them in the past based on how many sick puppy reviews there are online.
Thank you Revdex.com for any help you can offer. I felt your company would be the best first place to start.
Regards,
[redacted]
When Mr. [redacted] received his first puppy he called screaming that it had cold symptoms. He called the vet who issued the original health certificate and screamed at him also. The vet explained at the time he saw the puppy it was healthy but had us send a 5...
day "z pack" which knocks out all cold symptoms quickly as in people. A few months later, (7/2/12) Mr [redacted] was back complaining about size and growth not being what he wanted and Kimbertal issued him a replacement certificate as the female would not be Superior Sized. After continued numerous phone calls the elderly owner was told by Mr. [redacted] that if he sent half the money back he would tear up the certificate and leave us alone. We looked up the sales receipt and were surprised to see the female was Over Sized not superior but sent a check for half the money was sent. hoping to satisfy the [redacted]es.We next heard from Mr [redacted] a few years later when he called and emailed about his female having kidney failure. Our requests for shot info, since lepto causes kidney failure in one out of every eight dobermans was never honored. We never did get a shot record and the comments they have a natural yard did not cover the fact that all bulb flowers, fruit trees, sugarfree products, grapes, raisins, tylenol, motrin, etc, etc can cause kidney issues. There is an endless list of causes. Their vet never would speak to us at all. Time had passed and Mr. [redacted] never mentioned a refund only $3000 superior sized pup he was owed. It was our fault we let him pick an upgrade and never checked everything out before he got a male ( free) dog but he did not pay for two puppies. Four months later the same vet as they had before was finding symptoms of issues. Again the vet would not even speak to us or our vet( anew vet, different from the original one) and no shot records were ever given for either puppy. In the list of expenses are dog crates, toys, food, etc and other non medical items. We stopped answering all emails due to the threats and language. None of the new pup's littermates have an issue either and the parents are unrelated. One estimate on the phone was we owed them $8000. Here is sample of one such email
" First and foremost, our vet did speak with whoever it was that called, and she
doesn’t believe that it was another vet that she was speaking with, because she
had to explain things that a vet would have known.
Secondly, you do not know me, so
you don’t know what I will answer. Try me!
Our vet says genetic for this
puppy, and chances are genetic for Rumor, because there is a link in the
bloodline between Rumor & Corky. Unless of course, Kimbertal administered
Z-Pak to both of these puppies, i.e. practicing medicine without a license.
We only had this puppy (Corky)
for 4 months prior to this discovery, and if it were in the county water (which
is treated) or something to do with our property as you seem to suggest, this
place would glow in the dark or the water would be glowing coming out of the
faucet for it to affect anything in 4 months.
You don’t need to ASK
Bob anything, you need to tell Bob to write a check for the original purchase
price and these expenses, which will continue to come in until this puppy is
laid to rest, because you can believe it when I say, we are not eating these
expenses, this is on Kimbertal! Kimbertal sent us a sick puppy to take care of,
and we are doing just that, at Kimbertal’s expense.
Please proceed accordingly,
because we have absolute no reservations with taking this to a legal level, as I
am retired, and don’t mind coming to PA for a legal battle, because I also have
family there, not to mention an Attorney who was referred to us that we
consulted with about Rumor. And the possibility exists that legal action can
take place in Federal District Court in Atlanta, seeing that this is on an
interstate level. And what are the chances that the judge will be a pet owner?
And should Kimbertal provoke us to go legal, we will attempt to recoup every
dollar that we have spent on these 2 dogs in the last 5 or so years. Not to
mention social media and the Attorneys General of PA, who probably doesn’t have
a problem with shutting down another puppy-mill.
We donate heavily to NO KILL
shelters, so you know where our mindset lies. Try to refrain from playing us
for fools, as we originate from Long Island, not Georgia. You can test us if
you choose!
I am
very sorry to hear about your puppy. I will speak to Bob about refunding your
original purchase price. Your vet will not speak even to our vet nor send
anything but the bills, no info. Only your puppies have these issues so we
would have liked to try and track down why but we guess we will not know. We do
not know how this is possible and feel bad that you have this issue. I know you
will not answer multiple questions so I will just start on your refund.
Anne"
As you can see we tried to negotiate with them but then realized they were speaking about a free dog and lifetime expenses which with their vet is ridiculous. Both dogs were also neutered young which we provide vet written articles going over why that voids our guarantee. It is hard to converse with someone screaming at you. They continue to harass our kennel and any customers they come across but since the goal of this seems to be getting a check from us every few years. Our state law covers up to what they paid for the puppy and the puppy was free.
[To assist us in bringing this matter to a close, you must give us a reason why you are rejecting the response. If no reason is received your complaint will be closed Administratively Resolved]
Complaint: [redacted]
I am rejecting this response because:
I was told on the phone the day of purchase that my dog would be $2000 if I was interested. I went to the facility knowing I'd pay at least $2000. My point was that they dropped the price from the website price to $2000 for me on the phone. When I arrived there they would not reduce the price again due to his condition. The scar (not scab) that the dog had on him at time of purchase is a classic scar from mange hair loss which I learned during this whole process. Mange can attack 1 localized area and then become dormant only to attack again throughout the dog's life. I think their puppies deserve more attention with such signs & symptoms. Anne from the start immediately denied it was the kennel's fault without seeing the pet & offered every excuse possible. WITHOUT SEEING MY DOG. I'm assuming because they are always threatened with litigation when that was not my intention. I cared about my puppy. She did not. They should care more about all their puppies they release.
She was rude & not listening to anything I had to say. I found her to be a liar with every interaction. She invited me up to their vet knowing that they couldn't do anything for me the day I came up for a diagnosis of mange.
I NEVER told her the dog was previously scraped (he was NOT scraped) prior to my interaction with their vet.
I told her on the phone that something was wrong with my dog & I had looked up mange on the internet & my dog's worsening condition at that time looked just like it.
So I wouldn't go see my own vet that day, she did offer their services for a visit -free of charge for an ASSESSMENT & TREATMENT. I didn't receive anything but a waste of time because they denied mange and said, "we don't know what it is." NO TESTING/ NO TREATMENT!
Anne is full of excuses. Over many conversations, I've heard her lies so I wasn't surprised when she wasted my time and offered yet another excuse = they wouldn't scrape that day because their vet wasn't "set up" to do anything.
Another excuse I would hear MANY TIMES on several occasions from both ANNE and owner, the owner is very ill & can't address the problem.
Anne will speak of my anger & hostility. My level of anger was appropriate when dealing with her over time. I wanted Kimbertal to be responsible breeders and love their puppies & deal respectfully with me since they sold me a puppy that had already experienced 1 localized attack of mange on its back. Anne kept yelling, "Prove it!!!!"
I find Kimbertal's business tactics nothing more than a huge puppy factory / mill the way they make litters of pups.
They hide behind a contract that has every loop hole to work at their advantage not what's best for the dog (forget about the consumer).
They breed & sell with no real, genuine regard. Their bottom line = return the dog for any reason. That attitude is pathetic. They would only destroy "damaged goods." Their answer= "Prove it!!!!"
I love Dobermans. I know of other breed dog breeders that help assist with medical burdens (even costs) when their puppies have health issues (hereditary issues, stressors passed from mom to pup during feeding, etc.) for the love of their breed and bloodline.
Kimbertal wants to brag about how long they've been in business and how many dogs they have bred, but they don't really care about their dogs once sale has occurred. They say they are the best when really they fall short on the scale and do not deserve to be in company with reputable breeders.
I feel that for how many "wonderful & healthy dogs" they pump out, when "one sickly pup" occurs (that's how they've nonchalantly referred to my dog), it would only be right to care for the pup and its healthy outcome. I feel for that reason, there are far more cases of mange they hear about. Yes, I am angry & frustrated because my puppy had / has mange. Yes, mange is an expensive disease to deal with long term. Kimbertal showed no concern for his suffering which was the worst. They have no respect for nor care about the consumer. They don't care about the energy it takes to care for a sick dog like this, my expenses, the loss of time from work, nor the time it's now taking me to fight this cause and injustice. My goal really is about making change there at Kimbertal. I feel when a company does wrong there should be some retribution. Unfortunately, the only way these companies feel it is through their bank account. I would prefer to see them shut down over anything else, but I'm being realistic that with all existing puppy mills - this is highly unlikely. The sad truth is they've been around for years. I've mentioned from day 1 to Anne, I am capable of providing care for my dog, but it is the ongoings at Kimbertal that leaves me seeking some sort of retribution that will have an impact & last a lifetime. My dog deserved better. All their dogs deserve better. They shouldn't be able to just simply walk away from such horrible circumstances.
Anne will have you believe I'm some sort of consumer having fun raping them for any amount of money. This is furthest from the truth.
1- She told me to contact her if I ever needed medication for mange. 2- I didn't need any mange related healthcare until mid May 2015 (the reason for my sparse interaction during some time). Therefore, I contacted her again to provide her a health update on my dog. At that time I questioned the status of the sire, bh, & siblings for the FIRST TIME EVER. Anne was ignorant to their statuses.
She will have u believe they were proactive from my first diagnosis of mange & looked into them, but I don't feel they looked into it. I can't trust what she offers so I would like an agency to CONFIRM her statements and FIND OUT about their health.
When I spoke to Anne and the owner in June, the owner told me because of my dog's circumstances, he created a new policy that all new customers would have to sign regarding nutrition. (I feel this nutrition subject is just another EXCUSE they provide so they don't have to discuss = 1) hereditary 2) poor genetics / immunity 3) not really knowing most of their parents' surroundings / homes before coming to their site to breed & deliver puppies 4) they didn't want to find a real reason for my dog's scar / hair loss day of purchase before selling him 5)the passing of mites from bh to pup during the time a pup feeds from bh. They rather look for ANY OTHER REASON to blame the consumer or "life's circumstances." (Nutrition, vaccines, neutering.) My dog's first attack occurred on their site! So their variables they blurt out are insignificant at best.
I am a registered nurse & I understand with all life form - illness & disease happens. A dog will become old and a breeder should not be responsible for every disease, illness, accident the dog will endure. Examples: Fractures, cataracts, arthritis etc. I've had other pets that needed care for hypothyroidism, diabetes, and pancreas problems. I provided their care physically & financially. I didn't feel the breeders were responsible, report them to agencies, nor demand retribution of any kind. Ironically, the dog that had hypothyroidism was a doberman I purchased from Kimbertal in 1999. Prior to buying my present pup, I've heard & have read so many bad reviews about Kimbertal & was reluctant to go there again, but my husband believed you can't believe everything you read. He said for every bad review there may be a good one. Against my better judgement, I went with Kimbertal.
I did contact other agencies, news outlets, and made plenty reviews on websites myself, hoping this story might help the next disbeliever.
Again, I don't enjoy the time it is taking me to deal with this problem and having to reach out via organizations & media to provide my truths, but I am determined to because of this injustice. I am an animal lover. I am a very busy person involved in many activities which also serves as a reason why I can't deal with this issue constantlly. Therefore , Anne doesn't hear from me daily. I have a life. Albeit, a life made more stressful caring for a sick dog. When I see I am not alone & I read about other bad incidents that Kimbertal should be rectifying, I must try to make the situation better. Anne speaks about my attempt as if I would do this for a hobby.
To conclude: My dog suffered from PUPPY DEMODEX MANGE showing signs from the first day I saw him. Fact: He was a sick pup. He never was an energetic puppy so I could not use his energy level as a sign of anything. I thought it was maybe due to growth spurts or he had a calm puppy personality, but now I know it was lethargy. He tried to fight the mites off for several weeks. I didn't know anything about mange so I did not address the GRADUAL hair loss right away. When I did, it was very late & he suffered mange throughout his entire body. He had 1 attack while he lived at Kimbertal in a localized area on his back!!!!! Regardless of any response from the kennel, the back scar is from mange which he had THERE! Again, Kimbertal will say, return him or prove it! The second attack was the generalized mange which they provided some monies for the first scrapings & first time medication ($200). The third attack was May 2015.
I'm praying somebody or something holds Kimbertal responsible for their poor business actions & lack of treatment of these sick puppies in need.
I also don't want another consumer to have to listen to their snide - "Prove It!"
Regards,
[redacted]
First, please note that when the puppy was on the internet it was for more than $2000. We did come down to $2000+tax which as a licensed business we must charge. The puppy did have a nickel sized scab with no redness or itching issues which we attributed to...
an old cut or scrape since it was healed. Mange spreads very quickly so it was not mange when it was with us.When contacted by us by [redacted], three months later, we were very sympathetic and offered her to come to our vet free of charge. The new vet was just moving his equipmant into the kennel from Las Vegas and talked about the owner going for a scraping at our older vet, but the owner said her vet had scraped and it was not mange. We talked about feeding and allergies and the owner left.
We were contacted shortly after by a loud screaming owner saying her vet said it now is mange and she had a vet bill. Even though the 10 days from purchase that the state law states we are responsible for any bills had more than passed, we reimbursed her for her vet bill. We did this again a few weeks later but told her we would gladly order and give her any medicine her vet prescribed but did not want to pay her vet's markup. Each time we also talked about stress from food allergies and poor diet but were met with hostility. We reimbursed the owner over $250 in these vet bills. We stopped breeding the parents of this dog and have continually offered to send any medication needed free of charge but communications have been sparse.
In early June of this year the puppy had a sudden relapse. We have not been given any info as to whether or not this was triggered by vaccines, diet change, neutering etc. After several loud phone calls where whatever we say, is said a little differently and fed back to us. We offered her another dog which she did not want so we offered her her money back and then we were told since we had offered her both she wanted both not one or the other. On June 9th she was sent a check #2660 for $1800, more than the balance of her payment of $2000 minus vet bills. Although [redacted] says she has the check she has not cashed it because she now wants $200 + the price of another puppy on our website, a minimum of another $2200.
Until this week we have tried to be supportive for the puppy's sake but the calls this week became increasingly derogatory and offensive. We have gone beyond the state law in issuing a refund over a year after purchase to try and make the customer happy. We do not feel that we should have to pay $2200 more to avoid "litigation" and the blackening of our name on the internet. We were willing to overnight medication to help defray costs or allow [redacted] to come to one of our vets but have been met with "anger management issues" that [redacted] attributes to us. We have a champion male we are not breeding so I do not know what more we can do to insure the quality of the puppies that we sell and to show our concern. Please let me know if you need any documentation or any more info. Sincerely, Anne G[redacted] Office Manager
[To assist us in bringing this matter to a close, you must give us a reason why you are rejecting the responseIf no reason is received your complaint will be closed Administratively Resolved] Complaint: [redacted] I am rejecting this response because: I was told on the phone the day of purchase that my dog would be $if I was interestedI went to the facility knowing I'd pay at least $My point was that they dropped the price from the website price to $for me on the phoneWhen I arrived there they would not reduce the price again due to his conditionThe scar (not scab) that the dog had on him at time of purchase is a classic scar from mange hair loss which I learned during this whole processMange can attack localized area and then become dormant only to attack again throughout the dog's lifeI think their puppies deserve more attention with such signs & symptoms Anne from the start immediately denied it was the kennel's fault without seeing the pet & offered every excuse possibleWITHOUT SEEING MY DOG I'm assuming because they are always threatened with litigation when that was not my intentionI cared about my puppy She did notThey should care more about all their puppies they release She was rude & not listening to anything I had to say I found her to be a liar with every interactionShe invited me up to their vet knowing that they couldn't do anything for me the day I came up for a diagnosis of mange I NEVER told her the dog was previously scraped (he was NOT scraped) prior to my interaction with their vet I told her on the phone that something was wrong with my dog & I had looked up mange on the internet & my dog's worsening condition at that time looked just like it So I wouldn't go see my own vet that day, she did offer their services for a visit -free of charge for an ASSESSMENT & TREATMENT I didn't receive anything but a waste of time because they denied mange and said, "we don't know what it is." NO TESTING/ NO TREATMENT! Anne is full of excuses Over many conversations, I've heard her lies so I wasn't surprised when she wasted my time and offered yet another excuse = they wouldn't scrape that day because their vet wasn't "set up" to do anything Another excuse I would hear MANY TIMES on several occasions from both ANNE and owner, the owner is very ill & can't address the problem Anne will speak of my anger & hostility My level of anger was appropriate when dealing with her over timeI wanted Kimbertal to be responsible breeders and love their puppies & deal respectfully with me since they sold me a puppy that had already experienced localized attack of mange on its back Anne kept yelling, "Prove it!!!!" I find Kimbertal's business tactics nothing more than a huge puppy factory / mill the way they make litters of pups They hide behind a contract that has every loop hole to work at their advantage not what's best for the dog (forget about the consumer) They breed & sell with no real, genuine regard Their bottom line = return the dog for any reasonThat attitude is patheticThey would only destroy "damaged goods." Their answer= "Prove it!!!!" I love DobermansI know of other breed dog breeders that help assist with medical burdens (even costs) when their puppies have health issues (hereditary issues, stressors passed from mom to pup during feeding, etc.) for the love of their breed and bloodline Kimbertal wants to brag about how long they've been in business and how many dogs they have bred, but they don't really care about their dogs once sale has occurred They say they are the best when really they fall short on the scale and do not deserve to be in company with reputable breeders I feel that for how many "wonderful & healthy dogs" they pump out, when "one sickly pup" occurs (that's how they've nonchalantly referred to my dog), it would only be right to care for the pup and its healthy outcome I feel for that reason, there are far more cases of mange they hear aboutYes, I am angry & frustrated because my puppy had / has mangeYes, mange is an expensive disease to deal with long termKimbertal showed no concern for his suffering which was the worstThey have no respect for nor care about the consumerThey don't care about the energy it takes to care for a sick dog like this, my expenses, the loss of time from work, nor the time it's now taking me to fight this cause and injusticeMy goal really is about making change there at KimbertalI feel when a company does wrong there should be some retribution Unfortunately, the only way these companies feel it is through their bank accountI would prefer to see them shut down over anything else, but I'm being realistic that with all existing puppy mills - this is highly unlikelyThe sad truth is they've been around for yearsI've mentioned from day to Anne, I am capable of providing care for my dog, but it is the ongoings at Kimbertal that leaves me seeking some sort of retribution that will have an impact & last a lifetime My dog deserved betterAll their dogs deserve betterThey shouldn't be able to just simply walk away from such horrible circumstances Anne will have you believe I'm some sort of consumer having fun raping them for any amount of money This is furthest from the truth 1- She told me to contact her if I ever needed medication for mange2- I didn't need any mange related healthcare until mid May (the reason for my sparse interaction during some time)Therefore, I contacted her again to provide her a health update on my dogAt that time I questioned the status of the sire, b
h, & siblings for the FIRST TIME EVER Anne was ignorant to their statusesShe will have u believe they were proactive from my first diagnosis of mange & looked into them, but I don't feel they looked into itI can't trust what she offers so I would like an agency to CONFIRM her statements and FIND OUT about their health When I spoke to Anne and the owner in June, the owner told me because of my dog's circumstances, he created a new policy that all new customers would have to sign regarding nutrition(I feel this nutrition subject is just another EXCUSE they provide so they don't have to discuss = 1) hereditary 2) poor genetics / immunity 3) not really knowing most of their parents' surroundings / homes before coming to their site to breed & deliver puppies 4) they didn't want to find a real reason for my dog's scar / hair loss day of purchase before selling him 5)the passing of mites from b
h to pup during the time a pup feeds from b
h They rather look for ANY OTHER REASON to blame the consumer or "life's circumstances." (Nutrition, vaccines, neutering.) My dog's first attack occurred on their site! So their variables they blurt out are insignificant at best I am a registered nurse & I understand with all life form - illness & disease happensA dog will become old and a breeder should not be responsible for every disease, illness, accident the dog will endure Examples: Fractures, cataracts, arthritis etc I've had other pets that needed care for hypothyroidism, diabetes, and pancreas problems I provided their care physically & financially I didn't feel the breeders were responsible, report them to agencies, nor demand retribution of any kindIronically, the dog that had hypothyroidism was a doberman I purchased from Kimbertal in Prior to buying my present pup, I've heard & have read so many bad reviews about Kimbertal & was reluctant to go there again, but my husband believed you can't believe everything you read He said for every bad review there may be a good oneAgainst my better judgement, I went with Kimbertal I did contact other agencies, news outlets, and made plenty reviews on websites myself, hoping this story might help the next disbeliever Again, I don't enjoy the time it is taking me to deal with this problem and having to reach out via organizations & media to provide my truths, but I am determined to because of this injusticeI am an animal loverI am a very busy person involved in many activities which also serves as a reason why I can't deal with this issue constantllyTherefore , Anne doesn't hear from me daily I have a life Albeit, a life made more stressful caring for a sick dogWhen I see I am not alone & I read about other bad incidents that Kimbertal should be rectifying, I must try to make the situation better Anne speaks about my attempt as if I would do this for a hobby To conclude: My dog suffered from PUPPY DEMODEX MANGE showing signs from the first day I saw him Fact: He was a sick pupHe never was an energetic puppy so I could not use his energy level as a sign of anything I thought it was maybe due to growth spurts or he had a calm puppy personality, but now I know it was lethargyHe tried to fight the mites off for several weeks I didn't know anything about mange so I did not address the GRADUAL hair loss right awayWhen I did, it was very late & he suffered mange throughout his entire bodyHe had attack while he lived at Kimbertal in a localized area on his back!!!!! Regardless of any response from the kennel, the back scar is from mange which he had THERE! Again, Kimbertal will say, return him or prove it! The second attack was the generalized mange which they provided some monies for the first scrapings & first time medication ($200)The third attack was May I'm praying somebody or something holds Kimbertal responsible for their poor business actions & lack of treatment of these sick puppies in need I also don't want another consumer to have to listen to their snide - "Prove It!" Regards, [redacted]
I understand that ** *** wants "retribution and feels she has been slighted We have tried to be more than generous with *** *** Again, we have refunded over $to ** *** and well past the days stated in the PA Puppy Lemon Law Her
purchase price was $and she has that back We let her keep the dog which is also above the state law This goes beyond even our
lifetime replacement guarantee We thought that this would make the situation better but now she wants double what she paid and we think she would still be over the top angry about it I do not understand why she feels that a puppy
sold in good faith and with just a scar, not ill should have been reduced even
more. I am sure that if we did reduce him more it would be said we did so
knowing he was ill. We did not go lower and the puppy's first outbreak of
mange was three months after he left here...possibly after a rabies or other
trigger. We do not know but he had no illness when he left here. He was a
sweet, laid back puppy I contacted our vet who is away for the
holiday weekend and he remembers what was said
during the initial visit since even that is now being contested. In an earlier
conversation it was stated that ** *** did not feel Dr D*** was a vet and
asked for proof since he had no equipment to
scrape the skin. ** *** and Dr D*** spoke about this and then about diet
and allergies. I see now that she denies knowing any of this
$is the bottom price we sell our doberman
puppies for and this was the agreed on price before ** *** came for the
puppy (Please note that deposits are totally refundable so ** *** would
have not lost any money if she was concerned and backed out of purchasing her
puppy) We had just dropped the price in order to move the puppies that were
here into forever homes. We did not come down on the price below $2000,
that is true.
A scar is not mange and yes puppies and kids can have scars on knees,
elbows, ribs, etc since they have moms and littermates and play. We have an
adult rottweiler that comes for visits here who had a large scar on her ribs at
tail docking and still does, with no mange or health issues. Since the scar on
this puppy was not crusty, itchy, red, moist or showing any signs of being
anything other than a scar we did not scrape it. The scar made no changes in
the time that the puppy was here and the pup was seen at *** *** Vet
Hospital for a physical and cropping. They ausulate the hearts and go over the
pups and the vets there had no concerns about the small scar or spot
either.
Despite the term "liar" that ** *** continually calls
me(as well as other things) I am stating facts as clearly as I can from an
incident almost a year ago *** *** can contact the AKC to verify that the
sire of her dog has not been bred since August of or if as responsible breeders
we took the financial loss and are not using a popular and beautiful stud. We
are sorry that this happened but this woman states on her complaint that she has
smeared us on every website she has found, called
consumer lines, etc, even though we gave her back her $and let her keep the dog. I am sure that she
will continue to do so no matter what we do. *** *** also stated to me
while screaming at me angrily that she had also contacted and attorney so that
is where the mention of litigation came from. I do not know why when we were
giving her back her money and offering her free medication I would be yelling
"Prove it!" at her since we had already sent her money. She has nothing to prove
she was given a full refund and allowed to keep her beloved pet
I have tried very hard to not raise my voice with her. It has been
difficult when I am told that people who she talks to about this
and me call me stupid and more derogatory termsObviously, I also have never said the kennel has no fault in this since we offered
to buy all needed medication and we have given her a full refund She has now cashed the check for the balance of $ This proves
that we are trying to do our part along with retiring a champion who produces
beautiful puppiesNo other breeders would not have gone to the extent of what we have We have offered her other articles into things that stress
the immune system and on upgrading the puppy's diet to improve it's immune
system. This is not to throw off blame but to help the puppy. In ** ***'s
phone call before her vacation she stated that the money did not matter she
wanted us to pay, "Unfortunately, the only way to make these companies pay is through their bank accounts". In her complaint she wants retribution and although we are
sorry for her problems, she has a dog and her money while we have neither and a
stud we do not use There was another employee in the office when ** *** came for her return visit Neither Dr D***, the other employee or myself have ever seen demodec show up in the form of hives or bumps like what were present on this puppy Three of us were present and all can vouch that no one yelled at her, or blamed herThanks, Kimbertal Staff
We did sell *** *** a doberman puppy in August of The puppy was $but he claimed our 10% military discount and paid $plus taxes on his credit card (Please note that he has contacted his credit card company and is claiming he did not get the dog
This is in dispute also.)We have a lifetime satisfaction guarantee which allows the customer to return a puppy for any reason and get a replacement or a certificate for a replacement when the situation is more stable to get a puppy No where on the guarantee does it offer a refund upon returning a puppy, especially months after purchase when the puppy often needs extensive training and work to rehome it This is done at our expense and we often have to sell as a reduced price Apparently, *** *** works in another state and goes home on the weekends with the puppy We actually received an email prior to the pup being returned talking about the situation See below from *** @***.com
(Good Evening,
I'm writing to you with hopes that maybe there is
something that you can do to help this puppyI have limited information, but
I'm hoping maybe it's enoughA few months ago a man by the name of ***
purchased a male doberman puppy from youHe named him ***, but I don't know
what his registered name isNot only has this poor dog not received the proper
time and attention that he needs to thrivehe's been kept in a medium sized
dog crate with no plastic pan on the bottom WITH a lead around his neckHe lays
on the wires and can't even stand upHis legs stick out from underneath the
door because he has grown much too large for the crateAdditionally, my
neighbor and I have recently seen *** beat ***physically in the
backyard of his sister's homeI believe *** lives in Virginia (per the
license plate on his car), however he spends a lot of time in Baltimore at my
neighbor's residenceI'm doberman lover myself as I've owned them in the past,
and have one now*** is trying to find *** a home...but not without a
costHe's selling him for 1,dollarsCurrently *** is in Baltimore, in a
townhouse with other dogs (puppies -- I believe--and adult pitbulls)
I'm not familiar with your purchase contract but I know when I purchased my
girl, we were required to return her to the breeder should we ever have any
issues or change of heart. A coworker of mine recently purchased a puppy from
you as well and suggested I reach out to youNot sure that this will help much,
but at least I can say that I've tried.)
*** stated that the baby in the house was becoming mobile and the dog would growl at him when he crawled over to his crate, perhaps because the feet were sticking out I was not here when the dog was returned but called him the next day as the employees here promised When I spoke to him about the email ** *** became verbally abusive and swore liberally at me He slammed the phone down He was issued a replacement certificate as out guaranteeWe can not have pups in the kennel all the time when all our pups are home raised and socialized which is why we did issue a replacement certificate and told ** *** that this week we would have at least males to choose from Since it is his circumstances in the home creating the issue and he seems unwilling to work on the problem with the current dog I do not know why he would get his money back He can get a replacement even though we advised him to wait until the baby and puppies in the home issue was resolved Why should we be penalized when we are doing more than any other kennel would?
[To assist us in bringing this matter to a close, you must give us a reason why you are rejecting the response. If no reason is received your complaint will be closed Administratively Resolved]
h stopped breeding - not because they reached out to put a stop to it, but coincidentally stopped, Kimbertal is dangerous to new puppies and their consumers.
Complaint: [redacted]
I am rejecting this response because:
#1 they did give me $1800 which I had to cash AFTER vacation! Anne would have you believe there was some sort of conspiracy on my part in cashing the check that I feel was owed to me. There wasn't any plot on my part. As mentioned previously, I am very busy in addition to taking care of one of their mange-y offsprings.
#2 They've refunded me $1800 minus $200 for my initial vet bill which I feel I'm owed the full $2000.00 because they wasted my time in trying to get my dog diagnosed & treated correctly & because he was such a sick puppy.
They told me from the beginning they would pay the $200 vet expense.
If they are to fully refund me for the dog, that would be $2000.00 regardless of the vet bill they agreed upon paying.
I understand that Kimbertal will lie about everything and anything that transpired as to stay in business as evidenced by their statements of conversation that allegedly took place between the vet & myself.
I never had a conversation with him other than to hear him say he had no clue what was wrong with my dog & that he couldn't test him that day. The majority of my interaction has been with Anne. (I had two conversations with the owner as well, but no real in depth conversation with their vet. In all honesty, I had no real conversation with the owner of any substance because the man is so hard of hearing he had to put somebody else on the telephone each time & I wasn't willing to tell my story all over again.)
I feel because they are willing to lie & because if by circumstance the sire / b
For that reason, I feel I'm owed my $200, but more importantly, I feel some group needs to go in and investigate Kimbertal more thoroughly. They are very well protected with their disgusting contract, facade of caring, lemon law, & "life's circumstances" excuse.
In addition to my full refund (Missing $200), it's now about the care or really the neglect Kimbertal dispalys for their bloodline once the consumer's check is cashed on days of purchase.
For that reason, regardless of their denials of my truths. I will continue the process I've laid out before me to spread the word they are Not reputable breeders. Yes, my actions may be slow in response because I'm consumed with taking care of my dog when not at my full time nursing job, but I will get more of my letters & phone calls out as soon as possible. I feel Kimbertal is hopeful that every consumer they've wronged will just tire out. I'm sure that has also helped them in the past based on how many sick puppy reviews there are online.
Thank you Revdex.com for any help you can offer. I felt your company would be the best first place to start.
Regards,
[redacted]
When Mr. [redacted] received his first puppy he called screaming that it had cold symptoms. He called the vet who issued the original health certificate and screamed at him also. The vet explained at the time he saw the puppy it was healthy but had us send a 5...
day "z pack" which knocks out all cold symptoms quickly as in people. A few months later, (7/2/12) Mr [redacted] was back complaining about size and growth not being what he wanted and Kimbertal issued him a replacement certificate as the female would not be Superior Sized. After continued numerous phone calls the elderly owner was told by Mr. [redacted] that if he sent half the money back he would tear up the certificate and leave us alone. We looked up the sales receipt and were surprised to see the female was Over Sized not superior but sent a check for half the money was sent. hoping to satisfy the [redacted]es.We next heard from Mr [redacted] a few years later when he called and emailed about his female having kidney failure. Our requests for shot info, since lepto causes kidney failure in one out of every eight dobermans was never honored. We never did get a shot record and the comments they have a natural yard did not cover the fact that all bulb flowers, fruit trees, sugarfree products, grapes, raisins, tylenol, motrin, etc, etc can cause kidney issues. There is an endless list of causes. Their vet never would speak to us at all. Time had passed and Mr. [redacted] never mentioned a refund only $3000 superior sized pup he was owed. It was our fault we let him pick an upgrade and never checked everything out before he got a male ( free) dog but he did not pay for two puppies. Four months later the same vet as they had before was finding symptoms of issues. Again the vet would not even speak to us or our vet( anew vet, different from the original one) and no shot records were ever given for either puppy. In the list of expenses are dog crates, toys, food, etc and other non medical items. We stopped answering all emails due to the threats and language. None of the new pup's littermates have an issue either and the parents are unrelated. One estimate on the phone was we owed them $8000. Here is sample of one such email
" First and foremost, our vet did speak with whoever it was that called, and she
doesn’t believe that it was another vet that she was speaking with, because she
had to explain things that a vet would have known.
Secondly, you do not know me, so
you don’t know what I will answer. Try me!
Our vet says genetic for this
puppy, and chances are genetic for Rumor, because there is a link in the
bloodline between Rumor & Corky. Unless of course, Kimbertal administered
Z-Pak to both of these puppies, i.e. practicing medicine without a license.
We only had this puppy (Corky)
for 4 months prior to this discovery, and if it were in the county water (which
is treated) or something to do with our property as you seem to suggest, this
place would glow in the dark or the water would be glowing coming out of the
faucet for it to affect anything in 4 months.
You don’t need to ASK
Bob anything, you need to tell Bob to write a check for the original purchase
price and these expenses, which will continue to come in until this puppy is
laid to rest, because you can believe it when I say, we are not eating these
expenses, this is on Kimbertal! Kimbertal sent us a sick puppy to take care of,
and we are doing just that, at Kimbertal’s expense.
Please proceed accordingly,
because we have absolute no reservations with taking this to a legal level, as I
am retired, and don’t mind coming to PA for a legal battle, because I also have
family there, not to mention an Attorney who was referred to us that we
consulted with about Rumor. And the possibility exists that legal action can
take place in Federal District Court in Atlanta, seeing that this is on an
interstate level. And what are the chances that the judge will be a pet owner?
And should Kimbertal provoke us to go legal, we will attempt to recoup every
dollar that we have spent on these 2 dogs in the last 5 or so years. Not to
mention social media and the Attorneys General of PA, who probably doesn’t have
a problem with shutting down another puppy-mill.
We donate heavily to NO KILL
shelters, so you know where our mindset lies. Try to refrain from playing us
for fools, as we originate from Long Island, not Georgia. You can test us if
you choose!
Warmest
regards,
[redacted]
From: [email protected]
[mailto:[redacted]] Sent: Friday, August 28, 2015 2:47
PMTo: dw[redacted]Subject: Re: Renal
Dysplasia
I am
very sorry to hear about your puppy. I will speak to Bob about refunding your
original purchase price. Your vet will not speak even to our vet nor send
anything but the bills, no info. Only your puppies have these issues so we
would have liked to try and track down why but we guess we will not know. We do
not know how this is possible and feel bad that you have this issue. I know you
will not answer multiple questions so I will just start on your refund.
Anne"
As you can see we tried to negotiate with them but then realized they were speaking about a free dog and lifetime expenses which with their vet is ridiculous. Both dogs were also neutered young which we provide vet written articles going over why that voids our guarantee. It is hard to converse with someone screaming at you. They continue to harass our kennel and any customers they come across but since the goal of this seems to be getting a check from us every few years. Our state law covers up to what they paid for the puppy and the puppy was free.
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h, & siblings for the FIRST TIME EVER. Anne was ignorant to their statuses.
h to pup during the time a pup feeds from b
h. They rather look for ANY OTHER REASON to blame the consumer or "life's circumstances." (Nutrition, vaccines, neutering.) My dog's first attack occurred on their site! So their variables they blurt out are insignificant at best.
Complaint: [redacted]
I am rejecting this response because:
I was told on the phone the day of purchase that my dog would be $2000 if I was interested. I went to the facility knowing I'd pay at least $2000. My point was that they dropped the price from the website price to $2000 for me on the phone. When I arrived there they would not reduce the price again due to his condition. The scar (not scab) that the dog had on him at time of purchase is a classic scar from mange hair loss which I learned during this whole process. Mange can attack 1 localized area and then become dormant only to attack again throughout the dog's life. I think their puppies deserve more attention with such signs & symptoms. Anne from the start immediately denied it was the kennel's fault without seeing the pet & offered every excuse possible. WITHOUT SEEING MY DOG. I'm assuming because they are always threatened with litigation when that was not my intention. I cared about my puppy. She did not. They should care more about all their puppies they release.
She was rude & not listening to anything I had to say. I found her to be a liar with every interaction. She invited me up to their vet knowing that they couldn't do anything for me the day I came up for a diagnosis of mange.
I NEVER told her the dog was previously scraped (he was NOT scraped) prior to my interaction with their vet.
I told her on the phone that something was wrong with my dog & I had looked up mange on the internet & my dog's worsening condition at that time looked just like it.
So I wouldn't go see my own vet that day, she did offer their services for a visit -free of charge for an ASSESSMENT & TREATMENT. I didn't receive anything but a waste of time because they denied mange and said, "we don't know what it is." NO TESTING/ NO TREATMENT!
Anne is full of excuses. Over many conversations, I've heard her lies so I wasn't surprised when she wasted my time and offered yet another excuse = they wouldn't scrape that day because their vet wasn't "set up" to do anything.
Another excuse I would hear MANY TIMES on several occasions from both ANNE and owner, the owner is very ill & can't address the problem.
Anne will speak of my anger & hostility. My level of anger was appropriate when dealing with her over time. I wanted Kimbertal to be responsible breeders and love their puppies & deal respectfully with me since they sold me a puppy that had already experienced 1 localized attack of mange on its back. Anne kept yelling, "Prove it!!!!"
I find Kimbertal's business tactics nothing more than a huge puppy factory / mill the way they make litters of pups.
They hide behind a contract that has every loop hole to work at their advantage not what's best for the dog (forget about the consumer).
They breed & sell with no real, genuine regard. Their bottom line = return the dog for any reason. That attitude is pathetic. They would only destroy "damaged goods." Their answer= "Prove it!!!!"
I love Dobermans. I know of other breed dog breeders that help assist with medical burdens (even costs) when their puppies have health issues (hereditary issues, stressors passed from mom to pup during feeding, etc.) for the love of their breed and bloodline.
Kimbertal wants to brag about how long they've been in business and how many dogs they have bred, but they don't really care about their dogs once sale has occurred. They say they are the best when really they fall short on the scale and do not deserve to be in company with reputable breeders.
I feel that for how many "wonderful & healthy dogs" they pump out, when "one sickly pup" occurs (that's how they've nonchalantly referred to my dog), it would only be right to care for the pup and its healthy outcome. I feel for that reason, there are far more cases of mange they hear about. Yes, I am angry & frustrated because my puppy had / has mange. Yes, mange is an expensive disease to deal with long term. Kimbertal showed no concern for his suffering which was the worst. They have no respect for nor care about the consumer. They don't care about the energy it takes to care for a sick dog like this, my expenses, the loss of time from work, nor the time it's now taking me to fight this cause and injustice. My goal really is about making change there at Kimbertal. I feel when a company does wrong there should be some retribution. Unfortunately, the only way these companies feel it is through their bank account. I would prefer to see them shut down over anything else, but I'm being realistic that with all existing puppy mills - this is highly unlikely. The sad truth is they've been around for years. I've mentioned from day 1 to Anne, I am capable of providing care for my dog, but it is the ongoings at Kimbertal that leaves me seeking some sort of retribution that will have an impact & last a lifetime. My dog deserved better. All their dogs deserve better. They shouldn't be able to just simply walk away from such horrible circumstances.
Anne will have you believe I'm some sort of consumer having fun raping them for any amount of money. This is furthest from the truth.
1- She told me to contact her if I ever needed medication for mange. 2- I didn't need any mange related healthcare until mid May 2015 (the reason for my sparse interaction during some time). Therefore, I contacted her again to provide her a health update on my dog. At that time I questioned the status of the sire, b
She will have u believe they were proactive from my first diagnosis of mange & looked into them, but I don't feel they looked into it. I can't trust what she offers so I would like an agency to CONFIRM her statements and FIND OUT about their health.
When I spoke to Anne and the owner in June, the owner told me because of my dog's circumstances, he created a new policy that all new customers would have to sign regarding nutrition. (I feel this nutrition subject is just another EXCUSE they provide so they don't have to discuss = 1) hereditary 2) poor genetics / immunity 3) not really knowing most of their parents' surroundings / homes before coming to their site to breed & deliver puppies 4) they didn't want to find a real reason for my dog's scar / hair loss day of purchase before selling him 5)the passing of mites from b
I am a registered nurse & I understand with all life form - illness & disease happens. A dog will become old and a breeder should not be responsible for every disease, illness, accident the dog will endure. Examples: Fractures, cataracts, arthritis etc. I've had other pets that needed care for hypothyroidism, diabetes, and pancreas problems. I provided their care physically & financially. I didn't feel the breeders were responsible, report them to agencies, nor demand retribution of any kind. Ironically, the dog that had hypothyroidism was a doberman I purchased from Kimbertal in 1999. Prior to buying my present pup, I've heard & have read so many bad reviews about Kimbertal & was reluctant to go there again, but my husband believed you can't believe everything you read. He said for every bad review there may be a good one. Against my better judgement, I went with Kimbertal.
I did contact other agencies, news outlets, and made plenty reviews on websites myself, hoping this story might help the next disbeliever.
Again, I don't enjoy the time it is taking me to deal with this problem and having to reach out via organizations & media to provide my truths, but I am determined to because of this injustice. I am an animal lover. I am a very busy person involved in many activities which also serves as a reason why I can't deal with this issue constantlly. Therefore , Anne doesn't hear from me daily. I have a life. Albeit, a life made more stressful caring for a sick dog. When I see I am not alone & I read about other bad incidents that Kimbertal should be rectifying, I must try to make the situation better. Anne speaks about my attempt as if I would do this for a hobby.
To conclude: My dog suffered from PUPPY DEMODEX MANGE showing signs from the first day I saw him. Fact: He was a sick pup. He never was an energetic puppy so I could not use his energy level as a sign of anything. I thought it was maybe due to growth spurts or he had a calm puppy personality, but now I know it was lethargy. He tried to fight the mites off for several weeks. I didn't know anything about mange so I did not address the GRADUAL hair loss right away. When I did, it was very late & he suffered mange throughout his entire body. He had 1 attack while he lived at Kimbertal in a localized area on his back!!!!! Regardless of any response from the kennel, the back scar is from mange which he had THERE! Again, Kimbertal will say, return him or prove it! The second attack was the generalized mange which they provided some monies for the first scrapings & first time medication ($200). The third attack was May 2015.
I'm praying somebody or something holds Kimbertal responsible for their poor business actions & lack of treatment of these sick puppies in need.
I also don't want another consumer to have to listen to their snide - "Prove It!"
Regards,
[redacted]
First, please note that when the puppy was on the internet it was for more than $2000. We did come down to $2000+tax which as a licensed business we must charge. The puppy did have a nickel sized scab with no redness or itching issues which we attributed to...
an old cut or scrape since it was healed. Mange spreads very quickly so it was not mange when it was with us.When contacted by us by [redacted], three months later, we were very sympathetic and offered her to come to our vet free of charge. The new vet was just moving his equipmant into the kennel from Las Vegas and talked about the owner going for a scraping at our older vet, but the owner said her vet had scraped and it was not mange. We talked about feeding and allergies and the owner left.
We were contacted shortly after by a loud screaming owner saying her vet said it now is mange and she had a vet bill. Even though the 10 days from purchase that the state law states we are responsible for any bills had more than passed, we reimbursed her for her vet bill. We did this again a few weeks later but told her we would gladly order and give her any medicine her vet prescribed but did not want to pay her vet's markup. Each time we also talked about stress from food allergies and poor diet but were met with hostility. We reimbursed the owner over $250 in these vet bills. We stopped breeding the parents of this dog and have continually offered to send any medication needed free of charge but communications have been sparse.
In early June of this year the puppy had a sudden relapse. We have not been given any info as to whether or not this was triggered by vaccines, diet change, neutering etc. After several loud phone calls where whatever we say, is said a little differently and fed back to us. We offered her another dog which she did not want so we offered her her money back and then we were told since we had offered her both she wanted both not one or the other. On June 9th she was sent a check #2660 for $1800, more than the balance of her payment of $2000 minus vet bills. Although [redacted] says she has the check she has not cashed it because she now wants $200 + the price of another puppy on our website, a minimum of another $2200.
Until this week we have tried to be supportive for the puppy's sake but the calls this week became increasingly derogatory and offensive. We have gone beyond the state law in issuing a refund over a year after purchase to try and make the customer happy. We do not feel that we should have to pay $2200 more to avoid "litigation" and the blackening of our name on the internet. We were willing to overnight medication to help defray costs or allow [redacted] to come to one of our vets but have been met with "anger management issues" that [redacted] attributes to us. We have a champion male we are not breeding so I do not know what more we can do to insure the quality of the puppies that we sell and to show our concern. Please let me know if you need any documentation or any more info. Sincerely, Anne G[redacted] Office Manager