Initial Business Response / [redacted] (1000, 5, 2015/02/19) */ Contact Name and Title: [redacted] ***,General Counsel Contact Phone: (XXX) XXX-XXXX Contact Email: [redacted] @beldon.com In many cases, LeafGuard Chicago, LLC ("LeafGuard") will do things for its customer in the interest of customer service, even when LeafGuard has no legal obligation to do soThere are other times when there is nothing LeafGuard can do to for a customerUnfortunately, this is one of those situationsSpecifically, LeafGuard respectfully declines this Customer's request for LeafGuard to install a new open gutter system to replace a LeafGuard gutter system that was installed in April The Customer asserts that the earliest problems with icicles do not start until over six years (December 2012) after the installation of the LeafGuard gutter systemThere multiple factors that could potentially have caused the relatively recent formation of icicles over the past few yearsYet, in her Revdex.com complaint, the Customer alleges that it has to be related to the LeafGuard gutter system installed nearly nine years agoShe does so by stating that prior to the LeafGuard gutter system being installed in that she NEVER had problems with icicles on her home for yearsBut, the LeafGuard gutter system was not the only change to the home that occurred on April LeafGuard was delayed installing the LeafGuard gutter system until after the Customer had a new roof installed on her homeActually, the roof was finished on April 12th, with the LeafGuard gutter system installed on the 13thIf the events that occurred in April actually contributed to the formation of icicles that last few years, based on the science (see next paragraph) it seems like the roof installation is the more likely cause There is numerous authority explaining what caused ice dams/icing/icicles, and it does not have anything to do with a particular gutter system or the alleged quality of that gutter systemThe Minnesota Department of Commerce and the University of Minnesota have published papers indicating that the primary cause of ice dams begins within the house and with heat escaping the home causing the snow to melt, which ultimate re-freezes at the edge of the roof, causing the ice damsActually, this is pretty common knowledge in cold weather areas, like the Chicago areaAs an example, LeafGuard refers your attention to videos that can be viewed on YouTube that also explains how ice dams are caused [redacted] This information is just the tip of the iceberg regarding the information available (e.gthe science behind) the cause of ice dams/iciclesThere are also plenty of newscasts over the past few years, including in the Chicago area, that have addressed the ice dam/icicle issueAs you can see from the available authority, ice dam/icing/icicles can occur with our without gutters or any type of gutter system because it is not generally related to the gutter systemThe problem lies within the Customer's homei.eheat escaping, in part, due to improper insulation and/or ventilation, although the Customer summarily rejects that either is the cause of the icicles forming on her home At this time, it is extremely difficult to pinpoint what is causing the icicle problem that the Customer hasIt seems extremely unlikely anything done in done in April (either the installation of the roof or LeafGuard gutter system) would be the cause of icicles that only started a few years agoWhile the last two winters have been harsh in the Chicago area, Chicago has had significant winter in the six winter seasons that followed the installation of the roof and/or LeafGuard gutter systemAlso, there is no way of knowing what has potentially changed with the Customer's home during the six years that followed the installation of the roof and/or LeafGuard gutter system that might have contributed to the formation of icicles The Customer implies in her complaint that LeafGuard acknowledge verbally and by the language of the contract that a LeafGuard gutters system is the primary cause of icicles "because the gutters are closed." This is not an accurate representation of what any representative said and/or what the contract statesSpecifically, the contract that the Customer and her husband had plenty of opportunity to review and approve clearly states within paragraph of the Standard General Conditions that: LeafGuard is the finest rain-gutter system on the market; however LeafGuard will not eliminate ice formation on your gutter or eavesIce formation is mostly caused by factors not related to your gutter systemIn fact, you will probably see more ice (icicles) on the outside of the LeafGuard gutter because conventional gutters tend to collect ice on the inside whereas LeafGuard is shaped to discourage anything from entering the trough except for liquid waterTherefore, it is to see icicles on the outside of LeafGuard Gutters, This condition can be severe in situations where there is excessive heat loss from your roof! We make no representations regarding the elimination or prevention of ice formation with the installation of LeafGuardUnlike other gutter systems, we are able, and do warrant, that for a period of five (5) years, that the LeafGuard Gutter system will not detach or be pulled away from the fascia board as a result of ice formation(emphasis added) As the Customer's complaint has confirmed, it has been nearly nine years, and the LeafGuard gutter system is still firmly intact The only issue that the Customer has with the LeafGuard gutter system is her belief that it is the cause of her icicle problem that past few yearsYet, the Customer has not complained the LeafGuard gutter system has not properly operated as designedFurther, other than calls related to the icicle issue, the Customer has made no service calls related to operation of the LeafGuard gutter systemNevertheless, the Customer is requesting free of charge for a new gutter system to replace one that has been operating as designedRespectfully, LeafGuard cannot honor the Customer's request to get a free gutter system for one that has been working as designed for nearly nine yearsThus, LeafGuard has to consider this matter closed
Unfortunately, we believe that there was some
misunderstanding between the Customer and LeafGuard Chicago, LLC (“LeafGuard”),
and LeafGuard apologies for any role it might have played in that
misunderstanding. The fact that the
Customer pre-paid for the whole job upfront played no part
in the
misunderstanding occurring. It was the
Customer who wanted to pay the full amount upfront. Actually, our policy only requires 1/3rd down payment. At this time, LeafGuard
has addressed to the extent it could all of the items raised in the Customer’s
compliant. Thus, LeafGuard now considers
this matter closed.Prior to him making his Revdex.com complaint, LeafGuard had already
addressed the Customer’s concern regarding a corner piece of old gutter system
that the Customer found in his yard, including the General Manager personally addressing
the matter. Previously, the Customer
twice indicated that it was a single piece and not two pieces of gutters that
he found in the yard. Although LeafGuard
may have left the corner piece of the old gutter system on the roof, it did not
breach the contractWhile LeafGuard regrets that a piece of the gutter system
might have been left on the roof, the installation crew would not have been
able to see it from the ground, considering that the roof is over two stories
above the ground. The Customer
acknowledged as much in his complaint. Other
than the unseen piece, LeafGuard did cleanup the rest of the property. We have advised the Customer that we have
instructed our installation crews to be more conscious of where we put parts of
a gutter system that have been removedContrary to the Customer’s complaint, LeafGuard responded to
the Customer’s September 21st email.
In his email, LeafGuard noted concerns with the warranties that he
received with the purchase of a LeafGuard gutter system. This was the same concerns he addressed over
the phone with the General Manager.
Also, all of the applicable warranties are expressly stated in the
contract’s Terms & Conditions.
Consequently, the Customer had the full scope of what would or would not
be covered post installation before he signed the contract and definitely prior
to the three day right of cancellation expired.
It was only after the job was installed that the Customer expressed any
concerns regarding the warranties. When
requested, LeafGuard provided him copies of the warranties via email, which was
the same way we had been communicating with the Customer. As the Customer noted in his complaint,
somehow the age of his computer made the receipt of electronic copies of the
unusable. LeafGuard has honored the
Customer’s request by sending him separately paper copies of the applicable warranties. Furthermore, LeafGuard and/or the
manufacturer has and will honor any valid claim that arise under the applicable
warranties.
Other than providing the Customer with the requested paper copies
of the applicable warranties, there did not seem to be any further action
items. Because LeafGuard now has
provided him paper along with electronic copies of the applicable warranties,
there is nothing further for LeafGuard to do at this time. Accordingly, we are considering this matter
closed
not happy with workmanship on front porchaluminum was replaced in pieces , it was one piece before they touched itit looks like they used scrap pieces or whatever they had on the truck.for the amount of money they charge I expected better
Initial Business Response /* (1000, 8, 2014/08/29) */
Contact Name and Title: *** ***/General Counsel
Contact Phone: XXX-XXX-XXXX
Contact Email: ***@beldon.com
While LeafGuard Chicago, LLC ("LeafGuard") tries to make each and every customer 100% satisfied, we know that it is not
always possible to do soUnfortunately, we believe that this is one of those casesThe Customer asserts that water damage to his soffits was caused by LeafGuard removing flashing and not re-installing flashingAs you will see from below, this allegation is incorrectAccordingly, we have to decline the Customer's request to pay him $2,to replace the damaged soffits
Again, the Customer asserts that LeafGuard removed flashing and failed to replace the flashing after it supposedly removed the original flashingThe Customer further asserts that because of this lack of flashing water penetrated the home causing the soffits to be damagedTypically, as part of its sale process, LeafGuard's sales representative will take photographs of the home to determine the condition of the home's gutter systemAs is typical, LeafGuard's sales representative did so in this caseWe have attached some of the applicable photographs that the sales representative took before providing the customer with his sales presentationYou can tell that this is the gutter system prior to LeafGuard installing a LeafGuard gutter because of the open gutters with a screenWhat you will notice from the photographs, there was no flashing in the areas were the Customer is claiming that we removed flashingAlso, as you will note in the photographs there are cracks in the wood, which clearly would allow water to penetrate the homeThe caulking that LeafGuard did, out of an interest in customer service, was these cracked areas that existed prior to LeafGuard installing a LeafGuard gutter systemSo, the problems that caused the damage to the soffits existed prior to LeafGuard installing a LeafGuard gutter systemNevertheless, LeafGuard tried to assist the Customer in eliminating the problem
The Customer also indicated in his complaint that he was "yelled" at by one of LeafGuard's employeesObviously, we find it unacceptable for any LeafGuard employee to "yell" at any customerWe have advised all of our employees that they need to be courteous to all customersWe apologize to this Customer for any employee who may not have behaved professionally
LeafGuard does many things that it is neither contractually nor legally obligated to do in the efforts of trying to reach our goal of keeping our customers 100% happyYet, we cannot repair any type of damage to customer's home that we have not causedWhile we have a two-year workmanship warranty, this warranty only relates to work that we actually performedWe do not warranty any problem that pre-existed prior to an installation or anything that develops within two years of the installationWe will more than happy correct problems that we cause, when an installation is incorrectBecause these problems existed prior to LeafGuard working on the home, we respectfully decline the Customer's request to pay for the damaged soffitsThus, we consider this matter closed
Initial Business Response /* (1000, 5, 2015/02/19) */
Contact Name and Title: [redacted],General Counsel
Contact Phone: (XXX) XXX-XXXX
Contact Email: [redacted]@beldon.com
In many cases, LeafGuard Chicago, LLC ("LeafGuard") will do things for its customer in the interest of customer...
service, even when LeafGuard has no legal obligation to do so. There are other times when there is nothing LeafGuard can do to for a customer. Unfortunately, this is one of those situations. Specifically, LeafGuard respectfully declines this Customer's request for LeafGuard to install a new open gutter system to replace a LeafGuard gutter system that was installed in April 2006.
The Customer asserts that the earliest problems with icicles do not start until over six years (December 2012) after the installation of the LeafGuard gutter system. There multiple factors that could potentially have caused the relatively recent formation of icicles over the past few years. Yet, in her Revdex.com complaint, the Customer alleges that it has to be related to the LeafGuard gutter system installed nearly nine years ago. She does so by stating that prior to the LeafGuard gutter system being installed in 2006 that she NEVER had problems with icicles on her home for 28 years. But, the LeafGuard gutter system was not the only change to the home that occurred on April 2006. LeafGuard was delayed installing the LeafGuard gutter system until after the Customer had a new roof installed on her home. Actually, the roof was finished on April 12th, with the LeafGuard gutter system installed on the 13th. If the events that occurred in April 2006 actually contributed to the formation of icicles that last few years, based on the science (see next paragraph) it seems like the roof installation is the more likely cause.
There is numerous authority explaining what caused ice dams/icing/icicles, and it does not have anything to do with a particular gutter system or the alleged quality of that gutter system. The Minnesota Department of Commerce and the University of Minnesota have published papers indicating that the primary cause of ice dams begins within the house and with heat escaping the home causing the snow to melt, which ultimate re-freezes at the edge of the roof, causing the ice dams. Actually, this is pretty common knowledge in cold weather areas, like the Chicago area. As an example, LeafGuard refers your attention to videos that can be viewed on YouTube that also explains how ice dams are caused [redacted] This information is just the tip of the iceberg regarding the information available (e.g. the science behind) the cause of ice dams/icicles. There are also plenty of newscasts over the past few years, including in the Chicago area, that have addressed the ice dam/icicle issue. As you can see from the available authority, ice dam/icing/icicles can occur with our without gutters or any type of gutter system because it is not generally related to the gutter system. The problem lies within the Customer's homei.e. heat escaping, in part, due to improper insulation and/or ventilation, although the Customer summarily rejects that either is the cause of the icicles forming on her home.
At this time, it is extremely difficult to pinpoint what is causing the icicle problem that the Customer has. It seems extremely unlikely anything done in done in April 2006 (either the installation of the roof or LeafGuard gutter system) would be the cause of icicles that only started a few years ago. While the last two winters have been harsh in the Chicago area, Chicago has had significant winter in the six winter seasons that followed the installation of the roof and/or LeafGuard gutter system. Also, there is no way of knowing what has potentially changed with the Customer's home during the six years that followed the installation of the roof and/or LeafGuard gutter system that might have contributed to the formation of icicles.
The Customer implies in her complaint that LeafGuard acknowledge verbally and by the language of the contract that a LeafGuard gutters system is the primary cause of icicles "because the gutters are closed." This is not an accurate representation of what any representative said and/or what the contract states. Specifically, the contract that the Customer and her husband had plenty of opportunity to review and approve clearly states within paragraph 5 of the Standard General Conditions that:
LeafGuard is the finest rain-gutter system on the market; however LeafGuard will not eliminate ice formation on your gutter or eaves. Ice formation is mostly caused by factors not related to your gutter system. In fact, you will probably see more ice (icicles) on the outside of the LeafGuard gutter because conventional gutters tend to collect ice on the inside whereas LeafGuard is shaped to discourage anything from entering the trough except for liquid water. Therefore, it is normal to see icicles on the outside of LeafGuard Gutters, This condition can be severe in situations where there is excessive heat loss from your roof! We make no representations regarding the elimination or prevention of ice formation with the installation of LeafGuard. Unlike other gutter systems, we are able, and do warrant, that for a period of five (5) years, that the LeafGuard Gutter system will not detach or be pulled away from the fascia board as a result of ice formation. (emphasis added)
As the Customer's complaint has confirmed, it has been nearly nine years, and the LeafGuard gutter system is still firmly intact.
The only issue that the Customer has with the LeafGuard gutter system is her belief that it is the cause of her icicle problem that past few years. Yet, the Customer has not complained the LeafGuard gutter system has not properly operated as designed. Further, other than calls related to the icicle issue, the Customer has made no service calls related to operation of the LeafGuard gutter system. Nevertheless, the Customer is requesting free of charge for a new gutter system to replace one that has been operating as designed. Respectfully, LeafGuard cannot honor the Customer's request to get a free gutter system for one that has been working as designed for nearly nine years. Thus, LeafGuard has to consider this matter closed.
We purchased our Leaf Guard gutters over this past summer and I would like to warn people who live in and a climate where there is snow that they do not work for melting snow. Apparently it says that somewhere in the fine print, but somehow we missed that. Every time the snow starts to melt, no matter how little it is, we have water pouring down over the side of our house from the roof. We end up having a multitude of icicles on the gutters and ice on the steps in front of our doors. This is that a time when none of the neighbors' houses have any icicles. When I contacted the company they told me they could come out and install heaters and who knows how many more thousands of dollars that would be. I feel that this company should not be operating in northern climates where there's ice and snow if the gutters don't work when there is ice and snow. It borders on being a scam. No one in this area should even consider buying a Leaf Guard gutters.
Initial Business Response / [redacted] (1000, 5, 2015/02/19) */ Contact Name and Title: [redacted] ***,General Counsel Contact Phone: (XXX) XXX-XXXX Contact Email: [redacted] @beldon.com In many cases, LeafGuard Chicago, LLC ("LeafGuard") will do things for its customer in the interest of customer service, even when LeafGuard has no legal obligation to do soThere are other times when there is nothing LeafGuard can do to for a customerUnfortunately, this is one of those situationsSpecifically, LeafGuard respectfully declines this Customer's request for LeafGuard to install a new open gutter system to replace a LeafGuard gutter system that was installed in April The Customer asserts that the earliest problems with icicles do not start until over six years (December 2012) after the installation of the LeafGuard gutter systemThere multiple factors that could potentially have caused the relatively recent formation of icicles over the past few yearsYet, in her Revdex.com complaint, the Customer alleges that it has to be related to the LeafGuard gutter system installed nearly nine years agoShe does so by stating that prior to the LeafGuard gutter system being installed in that she NEVER had problems with icicles on her home for yearsBut, the LeafGuard gutter system was not the only change to the home that occurred on April LeafGuard was delayed installing the LeafGuard gutter system until after the Customer had a new roof installed on her homeActually, the roof was finished on April 12th, with the LeafGuard gutter system installed on the 13thIf the events that occurred in April actually contributed to the formation of icicles that last few years, based on the science (see next paragraph) it seems like the roof installation is the more likely cause There is numerous authority explaining what caused ice dams/icing/icicles, and it does not have anything to do with a particular gutter system or the alleged quality of that gutter systemThe Minnesota Department of Commerce and the University of Minnesota have published papers indicating that the primary cause of ice dams begins within the house and with heat escaping the home causing the snow to melt, which ultimate re-freezes at the edge of the roof, causing the ice damsActually, this is pretty common knowledge in cold weather areas, like the Chicago areaAs an example, LeafGuard refers your attention to videos that can be viewed on YouTube that also explains how ice dams are caused [redacted] This information is just the tip of the iceberg regarding the information available (e.gthe science behind) the cause of ice dams/iciclesThere are also plenty of newscasts over the past few years, including in the Chicago area, that have addressed the ice dam/icicle issueAs you can see from the available authority, ice dam/icing/icicles can occur with our without gutters or any type of gutter system because it is not generally related to the gutter systemThe problem lies within the Customer's homei.eheat escaping, in part, due to improper insulation and/or ventilation, although the Customer summarily rejects that either is the cause of the icicles forming on her home At this time, it is extremely difficult to pinpoint what is causing the icicle problem that the Customer hasIt seems extremely unlikely anything done in done in April (either the installation of the roof or LeafGuard gutter system) would be the cause of icicles that only started a few years agoWhile the last two winters have been harsh in the Chicago area, Chicago has had significant winter in the six winter seasons that followed the installation of the roof and/or LeafGuard gutter systemAlso, there is no way of knowing what has potentially changed with the Customer's home during the six years that followed the installation of the roof and/or LeafGuard gutter system that might have contributed to the formation of icicles The Customer implies in her complaint that LeafGuard acknowledge verbally and by the language of the contract that a LeafGuard gutters system is the primary cause of icicles "because the gutters are closed." This is not an accurate representation of what any representative said and/or what the contract statesSpecifically, the contract that the Customer and her husband had plenty of opportunity to review and approve clearly states within paragraph of the Standard General Conditions that: LeafGuard is the finest rain-gutter system on the market; however LeafGuard will not eliminate ice formation on your gutter or eavesIce formation is mostly caused by factors not related to your gutter systemIn fact, you will probably see more ice (icicles) on the outside of the LeafGuard gutter because conventional gutters tend to collect ice on the inside whereas LeafGuard is shaped to discourage anything from entering the trough except for liquid waterTherefore, it is to see icicles on the outside of LeafGuard Gutters, This condition can be severe in situations where there is excessive heat loss from your roof! We make no representations regarding the elimination or prevention of ice formation with the installation of LeafGuardUnlike other gutter systems, we are able, and do warrant, that for a period of five (5) years, that the LeafGuard Gutter system will not detach or be pulled away from the fascia board as a result of ice formation(emphasis added) As the Customer's complaint has confirmed, it has been nearly nine years, and the LeafGuard gutter system is still firmly intact The only issue that the Customer has with the LeafGuard gutter system is her belief that it is the cause of her icicle problem that past few yearsYet, the Customer has not complained the LeafGuard gutter system has not properly operated as designedFurther, other than calls related to the icicle issue, the Customer has made no service calls related to operation of the LeafGuard gutter systemNevertheless, the Customer is requesting free of charge for a new gutter system to replace one that has been operating as designedRespectfully, LeafGuard cannot honor the Customer's request to get a free gutter system for one that has been working as designed for nearly nine yearsThus, LeafGuard has to consider this matter closed
Unfortunately, we believe that there was some
misunderstanding between the Customer and LeafGuard Chicago, LLC (“LeafGuard”),
and LeafGuard apologies for any role it might have played in that
misunderstanding. The fact that the
Customer pre-paid for the whole job upfront played no part
in the
misunderstanding occurring. It was the
Customer who wanted to pay the full amount upfront. Actually, our policy only requires 1/3rd down payment. At this time, LeafGuard
has addressed to the extent it could all of the items raised in the Customer’s
compliant. Thus, LeafGuard now considers
this matter closed.Prior to him making his Revdex.com complaint, LeafGuard had already
addressed the Customer’s concern regarding a corner piece of old gutter system
that the Customer found in his yard, including the General Manager personally addressing
the matter. Previously, the Customer
twice indicated that it was a single piece and not two pieces of gutters that
he found in the yard. Although LeafGuard
may have left the corner piece of the old gutter system on the roof, it did not
breach the contractWhile LeafGuard regrets that a piece of the gutter system
might have been left on the roof, the installation crew would not have been
able to see it from the ground, considering that the roof is over two stories
above the ground. The Customer
acknowledged as much in his complaint. Other
than the unseen piece, LeafGuard did cleanup the rest of the property. We have advised the Customer that we have
instructed our installation crews to be more conscious of where we put parts of
a gutter system that have been removedContrary to the Customer’s complaint, LeafGuard responded to
the Customer’s September 21st email.
In his email, LeafGuard noted concerns with the warranties that he
received with the purchase of a LeafGuard gutter system. This was the same concerns he addressed over
the phone with the General Manager.
Also, all of the applicable warranties are expressly stated in the
contract’s Terms & Conditions.
Consequently, the Customer had the full scope of what would or would not
be covered post installation before he signed the contract and definitely prior
to the three day right of cancellation expired.
It was only after the job was installed that the Customer expressed any
concerns regarding the warranties. When
requested, LeafGuard provided him copies of the warranties via email, which was
the same way we had been communicating with the Customer. As the Customer noted in his complaint,
somehow the age of his computer made the receipt of electronic copies of the
unusable. LeafGuard has honored the
Customer’s request by sending him separately paper copies of the applicable warranties. Furthermore, LeafGuard and/or the
manufacturer has and will honor any valid claim that arise under the applicable
warranties.
Other than providing the Customer with the requested paper copies
of the applicable warranties, there did not seem to be any further action
items. Because LeafGuard now has
provided him paper along with electronic copies of the applicable warranties,
there is nothing further for LeafGuard to do at this time. Accordingly, we are considering this matter
closed
not happy with workmanship on front porchaluminum was replaced in pieces , it was one piece before they touched itit looks like they used scrap pieces or whatever they had on the truck.for the amount of money they charge I expected better
Initial Business Response /* (1000, 8, 2014/08/29) */
Contact Name and Title: *** ***/General Counsel
Contact Phone: XXX-XXX-XXXX
Contact Email: ***@beldon.com
While LeafGuard Chicago, LLC ("LeafGuard") tries to make each and every customer 100% satisfied, we know that it is not
always possible to do soUnfortunately, we believe that this is one of those casesThe Customer asserts that water damage to his soffits was caused by LeafGuard removing flashing and not re-installing flashingAs you will see from below, this allegation is incorrectAccordingly, we have to decline the Customer's request to pay him $2,to replace the damaged soffits
Again, the Customer asserts that LeafGuard removed flashing and failed to replace the flashing after it supposedly removed the original flashingThe Customer further asserts that because of this lack of flashing water penetrated the home causing the soffits to be damagedTypically, as part of its sale process, LeafGuard's sales representative will take photographs of the home to determine the condition of the home's gutter systemAs is typical, LeafGuard's sales representative did so in this caseWe have attached some of the applicable photographs that the sales representative took before providing the customer with his sales presentationYou can tell that this is the gutter system prior to LeafGuard installing a LeafGuard gutter because of the open gutters with a screenWhat you will notice from the photographs, there was no flashing in the areas were the Customer is claiming that we removed flashingAlso, as you will note in the photographs there are cracks in the wood, which clearly would allow water to penetrate the homeThe caulking that LeafGuard did, out of an interest in customer service, was these cracked areas that existed prior to LeafGuard installing a LeafGuard gutter systemSo, the problems that caused the damage to the soffits existed prior to LeafGuard installing a LeafGuard gutter systemNevertheless, LeafGuard tried to assist the Customer in eliminating the problem
The Customer also indicated in his complaint that he was "yelled" at by one of LeafGuard's employeesObviously, we find it unacceptable for any LeafGuard employee to "yell" at any customerWe have advised all of our employees that they need to be courteous to all customersWe apologize to this Customer for any employee who may not have behaved professionally
LeafGuard does many things that it is neither contractually nor legally obligated to do in the efforts of trying to reach our goal of keeping our customers 100% happyYet, we cannot repair any type of damage to customer's home that we have not causedWhile we have a two-year workmanship warranty, this warranty only relates to work that we actually performedWe do not warranty any problem that pre-existed prior to an installation or anything that develops within two years of the installationWe will more than happy correct problems that we cause, when an installation is incorrectBecause these problems existed prior to LeafGuard working on the home, we respectfully decline the Customer's request to pay for the damaged soffitsThus, we consider this matter closed
Initial Business Response /* (1000, 5, 2015/02/19) */
Contact Name and Title: [redacted],General Counsel
Contact Phone: (XXX) XXX-XXXX
Contact Email: [redacted]@beldon.com
In many cases, LeafGuard Chicago, LLC ("LeafGuard") will do things for its customer in the interest of customer...
service, even when LeafGuard has no legal obligation to do so. There are other times when there is nothing LeafGuard can do to for a customer. Unfortunately, this is one of those situations. Specifically, LeafGuard respectfully declines this Customer's request for LeafGuard to install a new open gutter system to replace a LeafGuard gutter system that was installed in April 2006.
The Customer asserts that the earliest problems with icicles do not start until over six years (December 2012) after the installation of the LeafGuard gutter system. There multiple factors that could potentially have caused the relatively recent formation of icicles over the past few years. Yet, in her Revdex.com complaint, the Customer alleges that it has to be related to the LeafGuard gutter system installed nearly nine years ago. She does so by stating that prior to the LeafGuard gutter system being installed in 2006 that she NEVER had problems with icicles on her home for 28 years. But, the LeafGuard gutter system was not the only change to the home that occurred on April 2006. LeafGuard was delayed installing the LeafGuard gutter system until after the Customer had a new roof installed on her home. Actually, the roof was finished on April 12th, with the LeafGuard gutter system installed on the 13th. If the events that occurred in April 2006 actually contributed to the formation of icicles that last few years, based on the science (see next paragraph) it seems like the roof installation is the more likely cause.
There is numerous authority explaining what caused ice dams/icing/icicles, and it does not have anything to do with a particular gutter system or the alleged quality of that gutter system. The Minnesota Department of Commerce and the University of Minnesota have published papers indicating that the primary cause of ice dams begins within the house and with heat escaping the home causing the snow to melt, which ultimate re-freezes at the edge of the roof, causing the ice dams. Actually, this is pretty common knowledge in cold weather areas, like the Chicago area. As an example, LeafGuard refers your attention to videos that can be viewed on YouTube that also explains how ice dams are caused [redacted] This information is just the tip of the iceberg regarding the information available (e.g. the science behind) the cause of ice dams/icicles. There are also plenty of newscasts over the past few years, including in the Chicago area, that have addressed the ice dam/icicle issue. As you can see from the available authority, ice dam/icing/icicles can occur with our without gutters or any type of gutter system because it is not generally related to the gutter system. The problem lies within the Customer's homei.e. heat escaping, in part, due to improper insulation and/or ventilation, although the Customer summarily rejects that either is the cause of the icicles forming on her home.
At this time, it is extremely difficult to pinpoint what is causing the icicle problem that the Customer has. It seems extremely unlikely anything done in done in April 2006 (either the installation of the roof or LeafGuard gutter system) would be the cause of icicles that only started a few years ago. While the last two winters have been harsh in the Chicago area, Chicago has had significant winter in the six winter seasons that followed the installation of the roof and/or LeafGuard gutter system. Also, there is no way of knowing what has potentially changed with the Customer's home during the six years that followed the installation of the roof and/or LeafGuard gutter system that might have contributed to the formation of icicles.
The Customer implies in her complaint that LeafGuard acknowledge verbally and by the language of the contract that a LeafGuard gutters system is the primary cause of icicles "because the gutters are closed." This is not an accurate representation of what any representative said and/or what the contract states. Specifically, the contract that the Customer and her husband had plenty of opportunity to review and approve clearly states within paragraph 5 of the Standard General Conditions that:
LeafGuard is the finest rain-gutter system on the market; however LeafGuard will not eliminate ice formation on your gutter or eaves. Ice formation is mostly caused by factors not related to your gutter system. In fact, you will probably see more ice (icicles) on the outside of the LeafGuard gutter because conventional gutters tend to collect ice on the inside whereas LeafGuard is shaped to discourage anything from entering the trough except for liquid water. Therefore, it is normal to see icicles on the outside of LeafGuard Gutters, This condition can be severe in situations where there is excessive heat loss from your roof! We make no representations regarding the elimination or prevention of ice formation with the installation of LeafGuard. Unlike other gutter systems, we are able, and do warrant, that for a period of five (5) years, that the LeafGuard Gutter system will not detach or be pulled away from the fascia board as a result of ice formation. (emphasis added)
As the Customer's complaint has confirmed, it has been nearly nine years, and the LeafGuard gutter system is still firmly intact.
The only issue that the Customer has with the LeafGuard gutter system is her belief that it is the cause of her icicle problem that past few years. Yet, the Customer has not complained the LeafGuard gutter system has not properly operated as designed. Further, other than calls related to the icicle issue, the Customer has made no service calls related to operation of the LeafGuard gutter system. Nevertheless, the Customer is requesting free of charge for a new gutter system to replace one that has been operating as designed. Respectfully, LeafGuard cannot honor the Customer's request to get a free gutter system for one that has been working as designed for nearly nine years. Thus, LeafGuard has to consider this matter closed.
We purchased our Leaf Guard gutters over this past summer and I would like to warn people who live in and a climate where there is snow that they do not work for melting snow. Apparently it says that somewhere in the fine print, but somehow we missed that. Every time the snow starts to melt, no matter how little it is, we have water pouring down over the side of our house from the roof. We end up having a multitude of icicles on the gutters and ice on the steps in front of our doors. This is that a time when none of the neighbors' houses have any icicles. When I contacted the company they told me they could come out and install heaters and who knows how many more thousands of dollars that would be. I feel that this company should not be operating in northern climates where there's ice and snow if the gutters don't work when there is ice and snow. It borders on being a scam. No one in this area should even consider buying a Leaf Guard gutters.