Lemon Squad Auto Inspections

Revdex.com:
I have reviewed the response made by the business in reference to complaint ID [redacted], and find that this resolution is satisfactory to me.

I am unable to attach the Lemon Squad Terms and Conditions that the customer agreed to when he placed his order with us.  They can be found at lemonsquad.com.  Customer received report on July 28, 2016.  Terms and conditions that customer agreed to state that the customer has 14 days...

from the time they receive the report to let us know of any discrepancies and request a refund. In an effort to show good customer service (even though the customer called an yelled at us repeatedly), the customer was refunded in full on September 1, 2016.  The report shows that the vehicle was in less than average condition and received a grade of a D.  The vehicle had lots of cosmetic damage, including missing the front bumper completely, and the interior was very worn.  The mileage couldn't be verified because of bad pixels in the display.  This is not a vehicle that we would have recommended the customer purchasing.  We did look at 4 vehicles total for this customer and some of those were in better condition than the vehicle he purchased.

Initial Business Response /* (1000, 5, 2015/06/17) */
The issues that Mr. [redacted] is describing were not present at the time of the inspection. The inspector is an ASE certified mechanic. The OBD2 computer was hooked up at the time of the inspection and there were no codes present. The inspector...

did miss that the jack was not present in the vehicle and we have already refunded Mr. [redacted] in full. Lemon Squad did not sell Mr. [redacted] the vehicle. Mr [redacted] will need to address any issues that he has with the vehicle with the seller.
Initial Consumer Rebuttal /* (3000, 8, 2015/06/22) */
(The consumer indicated he/she DID NOT accept the response from the business.)
Lemon squad answer that no of problems were present when vehicle was inspected is not accurate. The items listed in my complaint do not just fail over night. All items listed in my original complaint were present. Their suggestion that the dealer needs to take care of this is not going to happen. Dealer reply to complaint was that this is the inspection company's problem and will not address any issues. Now I have a vehicle that is not worth what I paid for with problems that the "ASE" certified inspector did not find.
Lemon squad inspected vehicle and gave it a clean report with only cosmetic and minor problems. They have a copy of the inspection that was done listing problems.
Final Business Response /* (4000, 10, 2015/06/23) */
Lemon Squad is not a warranty company. We do not offer any warranties on the vehicles that we inspect. Mr. [redacted] will need to go back and read the terms and conditions that he agreed to when he placed his order. We have refunded his order in full. Lemon Squad did not sell Mr. [redacted] the vehicle. Lemon Squad only received $139.99 for the inspection of the vehicle that was refunded to Mr. [redacted] in good faith when Mr. [redacted] indicated that he was not happy with the service even though the inspection was completed more than 60 days ago. We wish Mr. [redacted] luck in the future.

I am rejecting this response because:
Dispite any forms that were signed, the rep on the phone said he'd be willing to work with me but not after I mentioned Revdex.com. How is that? I was respectful of the policy till this day, where I simply realize I or anyone I know would never utilize the service. So I paid $160 something and I was blamed for the cancellation? -$25, So $130 something is too much for the business to refund? I've never logged into my account to review forms. Honestly, I felt safe on the phone when I placed the order. Didn't think twice about a company who doesn't refund. In California, everyone can make exceptions to their policy. Customer satisfaction over Red Tape Buracracy. I still believe that because I was never given the services I paid for while I was activity looking for a car I should be refunded.

When Ms. [redacted] placed her order through the website back on May 11, 2016, she agreed to our terms and conditions through the ordering and checkout process that state that she has 3 hours from the time she has placed her order to cancel and receive a refund minus a $25.00 cancelation fee.  After...

3 hours, there are no refunds.  We assigned her inspection to the inspector and the inspector got a hold of the seller on the following day (5/12) to schedule the inspection.  The inspector was told by the seller that he had a pending sale on the vehicle and that he would call the inspector the next day (5/13) to let the inspector know if the vehicle had sold for sure or not.  The seller never called the inspector and when the inspector called the seller, he had to leave a message and never received a return call.  We contacted Ms. [redacted] to let her know that the vehicle had sold and that we were putting her order on hold.  She would have a credit with us that would never expire and she could use it towards another inspection anywhere in the country.  Now Ms. [redacted] wants to go back on the terms and conditions that she agreed to during the ordering and checkout process when she placed her order and is upset that we won't issue a refund.  Ms. [redacted] can access our terms and conditions by either logging into the account she created on lemonsquad.com or by clicking on the terms and condition link that is at the bottom of each page on lemonsquad.com.

Revdex.com received call from Lemon Squad indicating that it has reviewed Mr [redacted]’s reply of 10/20, and remains firm in its position.

I am rejecting this response because: Two of the attached pictures show the rust that Lemon Squad deems to be "surface rust" and the third picture shows the "field".  This car was located in lawn grass and sitting next to a gravel driveway.  If the inspector drove the car, as he stated in the report, he could have simply parked the vehicle on the gravel.  Also, note that numerous pictures were taken of the frame and underside of the car when the report was submitted to me.  However, the inspector failed to look at or take a picture of the body mounts which are attached to the frame, if the inspector could take a picture of the frame he could see the mounts and the floor.  In lemon squads limited liability language it states the reason for such limit is "a lemon squad inspection is not a substitute for a MECHANICAL inspection of the vehicle using diagnostic equipment and tools".  Liability clauses must be crafted in such a way that they are narrowly tailored, and this clause is.  That being said, my complaint does not encompass the "mechanical" portion of the vehicle.  No diagnostic equipment or tools were needed to spot these defects and because the inspector did not do his job the repairs will cost upwards of $5,000.00.  In lemon Squads "Frequently Asked Questions" section there is a question titled "Is an inspection guaranteed?" In that section the reason given for not guaranteeing an inspection is because "the inspector cannot see the internal components of the vehicle.... IN OTHER WORDS IF IT IS NOT FAILING AT THE TIME OF THE INSPECTION WE WILL NOT KNOW THAT IT IS FAILING."  Again, the defects I am complaining about were ALL FAILING and obvious at the time of inspection.  It should also be noted in their advertisement they state that with a vintage car inspection the emphasis is on "deterioration due to age" along with checking for rust and bondo.  This car is FULL of rust and bond, none of which was represented in the report. All I am asking for is this company to do whats right, these were not latent defects which could not be found, I am not a mechanic or a car guy and I managed to find the horrible rust situation in under a minute.  I would have not bought this car but for their report.

I did not have pre-determined expectations for the vehicle, as a 10k mile vehicle can be in significantly worse condition than a 35k mile vehicle, and a 50k mile vehicle can be in better condition than both vehicles.  It depends on how the vehicle was used and cared for.  If all vehicles were in the same condition at the same ages and mileages, there would be no need for 3rd party inspections.  Too many variables in vehicle ownership exist.   The purpose of an inspection is to bring attention to any issues found, so that the purchaser may make an informed decision on their own behalf.  The purchaser is not expecting the inspector to make decisions for the purchaser without consulting them nor simply deciding not to notify them of defects altogether.    Text from the LS website states:   “Expert Inspection Includes -Thorough check of interior--including upholstery, mats, headliner, and seat belts -We'll address any additional areas of concern that you identify”   Nowhere on the website does it state inspection services solely include looking for major flaws at the expense of attention to other areas of the inspection services advertised.   I also emailed LS to inspect the carbon fiber carefully as these are costly items to replace, yet the inspector stated “I did not see any visible defects in the carbon fiber parts and trim on this vehicle.”  After receiving the vehicle, I can match carbon fiber defects to pictures provided by LS.  Another example of gross negligence is one floor mat had two gaping holes worn through them, yet it was not disclosed on the report.   LS’ 14 day policy doesn’t give refuge to liability from their negligence.  Again, it is nearly impossible to ship the vehicle from Kentucky to Hawaii within 14 days.  A response was provided in a reasonable time within the first 24 hours of vehicle delivery.   As of 10/20/2017, LS has denied online access to my account to limit availability of the information provided from their inspection.

Initial Business Response /* (1000, 8, 2016/01/12) */
This inspection was done in June of 2015. It has been more than 6 months ago. Mr. [redacted] contacted us regarding some problems he was having with the repair facility that was fixing his vehicle. We reported on the condition of the vehicle and...

the inspector wasn't able to find any failure to the vehicle. I'm not sure why he would be asking for a refund after 6 months. Here are the inspector's findings:
State of Assembly
Completely assembled.
Inspector Findings
The vehicle was driven for several miles trying to duplicate the condition that the owner indicated. However, it was not possible because we drove mostly at 30 or 40 mph, and the owner says that it is more noticeable at higher speed. We did try the highway but there was too much traffic which made it impossible to drive at higher speed. There are no signs of abuse or any accidents. The tire and wheel look in good condition as well as the underside structure. See photos.
Cause of Failure
I was not able to determine cause of failure because I could not detect any failures during the test drive.
Recommended Repair
A more extensive inspection at higher speeds would be required in order to detect any failures.
Initial Consumer Rebuttal /* (3000, 10, 2016/01/13) */
(The consumer indicated he/she DID NOT accept the response from the business.)
I contacts them and they told me I would have to pay all over again for a service that I did not get. And they did not drive the car for several miles more like several blocks. My car was not taken to a service center, not put up and inspected nothing. So the details on what they do is suspect. I am not happy ay all with this resolution.

The report that the customer is complaining about is attached. We found many issues with this car. Our inspector went above and beyond to try to get the car to start by putting gas down the carb and resetting the points to help get it running. The customer sent a message to us saying that we failed...

to mention that the fender was not factory, and that if he went to look at the vehicle after reading our report, he would have sued us for his time. I called him and told him what the inspector’s thoughts were on the fender in question. Both fenders looked identical and to him, it looked factory. If they weren’t identical, that would have helped. I never said to him that we missed any accident damage. I never used vulgar words with him. What I did do was hang up on him since it may have led to more heated words. During the conversation, the customer was giggling the whole time in a weird condescending kind of way. I told him I found nothing funny and was trying to help him. 2 people from our office have called him today to see if we could talk to him but he will not answer or return our calls. The inspector that did the inspection is an ASE Master Tech. I can see that he has looked at over 150 classic Corvettes for us with no complaints. He has looked at close to 7000 cars for us.  This was a below average vehicle that had a lot of issues with it.  Most of our customers would not have bought it regardless of the originally of the fenders. All this customer could do was leave a rude message, giggle when we tried to help him, and then get mad when we wouldn’t put up with his behavior. As far as his final comment on the complaint about him being a professional engineer and he can attest that his account is true, I’m not sure what that has to do with anything.  We wish him luck and success finding the right car for him.

Here is the entire conversation through the chat program before the customer placed his order:    HELLO INTERESTED IN A CLASS B INSPECTION DO YOU HAVE INSPECTORS IN GRAND RAPIDS MI?Regan (Me)12:14Yes. Grand Rapids is no problem.TERRY12:14do you go to them or does the RV have to come to youRegan (Me)12:15We are a mobile service. We go to wherever the vehicle is located. If the RV is winterized, there will be some things that we won't be able to check. Is it with a dealer or a private seller?TERRY12:16auto lot not a dealerRegan (Me)12:16Ok. So do you know if they have indoor facilities that they can bring the unit inside of so we can have it hooked up to water, power, propane, etc?TERRY12:17not sure it is a 1999 ram 3500 coach houseRegan (Me)12:18Ok. I'd check with them to see if that is something they can do for you. Otherwise, if the unit isn't hooked up to those things, there will be some things we can't test.TERRY12:18what would you not be able to checkRegan (Me)12:18All the systems pertaining to water.If there is no power, we can only test what will work with the house batteries. If there is no propane, we can't test the furnace or stove or anything else that is hooked up to propane.TERRY12:19ok cost and time frame and how quickly will I get the report backRegan (Me)12:19Our RV inspection is $279.99. If you place your order through the website today, we'll be looking at it either tomorrow or Thursday, depending on weather and seller availability.TERRY12:21let me contact sell can I call you at the 888 number regan or should I just order onlineRegan (Me)12:21You can either call or place your order through the website. Whatever works for you. :)TERRY12:22thanks ReganRegan (Me)12:22No problem! I'm happy to help.TERRY12:23Regan will your inspection check for leaks and mold12:24helloRegan (Me)12:24Sorry. I am on the phone. I apologize.12:25We will look for mold and any evidence of leaksIf the unit isn't hooked up to water, we can't check for leaks all that well.12:26I work both phones and this chat system for Lemon Squad. sorry.TERRY12:27ok when you say look for mold is that the normal testing for mold is observation...what if it is under carpet or hidden or am I being a little out of sync with my questionRegan (Me)12:27We don't have a special mold tester. We look to see if we see any mold. Do you have any reason to believe that the unit has mold? We can't pull the unit apart. Seller's don't allow that. We look to see whatever we can see with our eyes. In that part of the country though, I would imagine that most mold would be killed by the freezing temps.TERRY12:29no it was an estate vehicle and barned for a number of years no leaks known...smells of popuraryRegan (Me)12:30We will definitely let you know if we smell any odd odors.TERRY12:31thanks me contact seller and make sure you have propane and water access...from the time you inspect how long will it be before I get the reportRegan (Me)12:32Perfect! It would be great if they could have it indoors. That way then, we don't have to worry about the water freezing in any of the systems and breaking anything. If we do the inspection tomorrow, you will have the report by Thursday morning. The guys are out in the field during the day doing inspections. They upload their reports when they get home for the day (after we are closed). We start reviewing reports first thing the next morning.TERRY12:32I will contact seller sorry for my crappy english and typing skillsRegan (Me)12:33No problem! Your English is good enough that I can understand you, no problem! :)TERRY12:34great get back to you shortlyRegan (Me)12:34Sounds good. Thank you! I did let him know that there are items that we wouldn't be able to check because the unit would be winterized.  He decided to place his order anyway.  IF he had any confusion as to if we would be re-winterizing the unit after the inspection, he didn't ask during this chat.  He did tell me after he paid for his order (when he agreed to the terms and conditions that state that there are no refunds) that the seller would be requiring $150.00 to re-winterize the unit.  That is not something that a seller would allow us to do.  If it is done incorrectly, it can damage the pluming system on the unit and that isn't anything that a seller would want to happen.  Plus, we wouldn't be liable for any damage.  In all the years we have been doing RV inspections, nobody has ever inquired if we would re-winterize an RV.  That is commonly known that only owners of RVs do that, not inspectors.  We do not issue refunds.  The only reason I issued a refund to this customer is because he was extremely difficult to deal with.  I refunded all but $25.00 to cover the costs that we have incurred in dealing with him.

Customer came through chat asking about the RV inspection.  I explained to him that if the RV was winterized, there would be some things that we wouldn't be able to check with regards to the water system (faucets, pumps, water heater, etc).  I told him that he would need to check with his...

seller to see if the unit would be winterized and to see if it could be un-winterized for the inspection.  The customer said that he would check into it and get back to me.  Then the customer called in to our toll free number and placed his order over the phone.  The agent that took his order informed him that the unit would need to be un-winterized for us to check the water system.  The customer paid for the inspection and then called back and said that the seller had told him that he would un-winterize the RV but it would cost $150.00 to re-winterize the unit.  The customer was very upset that we wouldn't be the ones to re-winterize the unit after it had water running through the system.  He didn't want to pay for that and thought that was something we should do as part of the inspection service.  He was very angry and wanted a discount if the water system couldn't be checked.  I told him that we wouldn't be offering a discount and that he had already paid for the inspection.  He wanted to argue with me about why the inspector wouldn't be able to winterize the unit after the inspection and I told him that it was a liability issue.  If the unit isn't winterized properly, things can break and we wouldn't be liable for that.  He was so difficult that even though we do not offer refunds, I refunded him minus $25.00 to cover our costs for taking his order over the phone and what it costs us to refund the transaction through our payment system.  I am not interested in having this person as a customer.  He was extremely difficult to deal with and just not a very nice guy.

Initial Business Response /* (1000, 5, 2015/11/27) */
Mr. [redacted] told us that he wasn't satisfied with his inspection. Per our terms and conditions and in an effort to provide good customer service, we have already refunded Mr. [redacted] in full on 11/14/2015 at 11:48 am CST.
Initial Consumer...

Rebuttal /* (3000, 7, 2015/12/01) */
(The consumer indicated he/she DID NOT accept the response from the business.)
Lemon Squad advertises "Don't get ripped off" and "we're here to prevent you from spending your hard earned money on a lemon". They did neither of those things.
I had the car looked at and it was determined the car was not in the condition Lemon Squad stated it was and also determined it would take thousands of dollars to get the car to that condition. We have since sold the car at a $7,300 loss and feel Lemon Squad should bare some responsibility past their "good customer service" refund of my inspection fee. They state they are there to keep me from getting ripped off, they aided in the transaction with a blatant disregard for the welfare of the client they claimed to protect.
It is not cost effective to pursue any type of legal claim however, it shouldn't take that for a company to stand behind their advertising claim.
Step up Lemon Squad and help defer my loss. While I won't pursue legal matters, word of mouth/social media is a powerful tool.
Final Business Response /* (4000, 9, 2015/12/11) */
Although we don't agree with the customer's assessment of the inspection that we performed for him, he wasn't happy with the inspection. Per our terms and conditions that he agreed to when he placed his order through our website, we have refunded him in full. There is nothing further that we can offer this customer. We wish him all the best in the future.

Initial Business Response /* (1000, 5, 2015/09/28) */
I am the owner of Lemon Squad and also the inspector who looked at this vehicle. What I am about to write is also what I told this customer. I spent over two hours looking at the vehicle. I use what is called a Paint Meter to look over the...

vehicle. This would help me to know if the vehicle has been in an accident. If the paint is thicker then stock thickness then we can assume paint work has happened. If the body shop sands down the paint enough then the paint can sometimes be thinner then stock. In this case the paint was stock thickness. There was no reason to believe the vehicle had prior pant work. I also looked for signs of previous paint work due to paint not matching, lot tape lines, orange peel and signs of improper application. I also looked for body panel alignment to be off. All of this was at factory specs. It is not unusual for a vehicle that has been repaired by a good body shop to not show as a vehicle that has been in an accident. There are no signs of previous accident to this vehicle. That is not to say it was not in an accident. There are just no signs to see that it has. Everything is to factory specifications. I believe it must have been a very minor accident. He did not buy a vehicle history report from us. This could have told us it had been in an accident. He waited until after the inspection to buy one from a different party then told us we missed this. We did not miss anything. We do not have a crystal ball. We say on our site that we take 25 pictures or more. I took close to two hundred pictures. I went for a 10 miles test drive. I used a paint meter all over the vehicle. I hooked up a computer to the vehicle to access more info on the Airbag system, engine, transmission and anti-lock brake system. I went above and beyond for this customer. I also offered to go back out free of charge even though I know I hadn't missed anything. I did the job the same day he ordered the inspection and had his order over to him the next morning. It states on our website that we will have the orders done most of the time by the end of the next business day and to receive the order to view by the following morning. Even though we did the inspection a day earlier then we state, he called constantly looking for his report. This is a customer that is abusing the Revdex.com to try and get his money back. He stated to us he was not interested in buying the vehicle anyways. I feel he is trying to recoup his money in a very unfair way. This is a customer that will not be allowed to use our services ever gain.
Initial Consumer Rebuttal /* (3000, 7, 2015/10/07) */
(The consumer indicated he/she DID NOT accept the response from the business.)
1. The inspector failed to check for clear paint protection which I explicitly requested - there is no mentioning of this item in the report which can be verified.
2. The inspector did not check for previous accident damage which is a key item in pre-purchase car inspection. The inspector admitted that he didn't take the paint meter with him for the inspection.
Final Business Response /* (4000, 9, 2015/10/07) */
Lemon Squad did provide the service exactly as the customer requested. I took his order over the phone when he was in China. The owner of Lemon Squad is the inspector that went out (same day) to do the inspection. The inspector did look for previous accident damage, used a paint meter and also commented on the clear coat on the vehicle. A picture was taken of the damaged clear coat and was commented on in the report. The inspector also spoke with Mr. [redacted] at length with regards to the clear coat that is on the vehicle. I have attached a copy of the report with the summary showing that the clear coat was mentioned. I have also attached a picture showing where the clear coat was not adhering to the vehicle. The inspector took over 100 pictures of the vehicle and even offered to go back out at no additional charge to Mr. [redacted] to take more pictures of the clear coat. Mr. [redacted] will not be receiving a refund.

I am rejecting this response because: Andy, the owner of Lemon Squad failed to mention what he stated on the phone with me on Nov14. Andy said, "the inspector had no Corvette or fiberglass experience and missed the aftermarket front end.  This was evident in his report and failure to recognize original GM fiberglass panels. The fender and hood misalignment were also dead giveaways.  The inspector had my phone number and could have easily called me during the inspection....I guess Andy doesn't want me talking to his inspectors.  If Andy or his inspector knew anything about vintage cars, the replacement aftermarket front end, as the result of a serious front end accident, depreciates the car's value dramatically.   Andy can dance around the issues all he wants, but the truth is, his inspector totally blew this vintage car inspection.