Revdex.com:I have reviewed the response made by the business in reference to complaint ID ***, and have determined that this does not resolve my complaint. For your reference, details of the offer I reviewed appear below
*** *** *** ***
To: Life’s Great Spas Inc- att: Andrew ***.Thank you for responding so quickly to this BB complaintWe appreciate your detailed and thoughtful review of our complaints since owning the SpaAs a result, we hope we can come to an agreeable resolutionAs stated when we started our engagement, we appreciate and support your efforts to bring manufacturing back to the USA and hope that you stand behind your product as you indicated to us when we met at the Auburn, Ca homeshow.Please do note that we respectfully disagree with many of the statements made within your responseWe have retained records of all of the communications we have exchanged, however we will try and focus on some of the key points here to hopefully lead to an agreeable resolutionBelow are some responses to some of the statements you made in your responseThese responses reference facts as shared belowAt the end of this response, we will summarize our position for your review.Quotes (Q:) and our (R:) responses:Q: "These parts were over year past the warranty period dates...."R: Please note that the spa was ordered 5/19/and delivered on 7/25/This was after a spa with the wrong options was attempted to be delivered on 7/10/and you rushed to have one made with the correct optionsThe leak problem was reported on 1/28/(See attached eMail)The lights issue was reported 8/17/and again 10/3/So clearly both were well within the year warranty period.Q: "The current issue stated by consumer, of loud pump...."R: Pump#replacement loudness was noted immediately after installation, hence not a recent issue caused by the new leaks (See attached 2/13/and 3/18/emails).Q: "Retailer in California and approach to handling issues..."R: While we appreciate differences that existed amongst yourselves (We received controversial feedback from your company, the Ca retailer and the local repair persons), you might appreciate that, as a customer this should not be our problemThis purchase was made based on direct dealing with yourself and Lauren when you visited the Auburn, Ca homeshow on 5/16/We have included you and Lauren on most, if not all, communicationsThe local Ca company was introduced as an intermediary to complete the initial purchase transaction on 5/19/and was engaged to provide local repairsDue to their poor responses and communications we had no choice but to use direct communications with your company as an escalation path for unacceptable performanceWe were not instructed to follow any other path to get resolution to deal with the ongoing issues experienced.Q: "Your response to "Not being able to use the spa...."R: Please note that the volume of issues, most notably flickering lights, leaks and sanitation systems not working, caused us potential health concerns, including fear of risk for electrical shock (acknowledging there may be GFI safeguards)In addition as you review the list of repairs below, it clearly shows that several of the functions of the spa have not been working for months (notably, the audio, lights and air from jets)All of this has resulted in limited and at times suspended use until issues were resolved.Q: "This complaint was received upon the same day in which the consumer sent an email to our website, threatening legal pursuit."R: Here is what we posted to the website: ""What is your warranty resolution processDirect Mails to Andrew and Lauren are completely ignored at this timeIf we don't hear back soon we will have to take other means to get resolution." We did not say we would take legal action and as you can see we went to the Revdex.com at this time due to the ongoing challenges to get a continuously properly working product.Issue notifications dates & facts (Notified, resolution, resolution timeframe):* Purchase & Delivery (5/19/14, 7/25/14, weeks)* Wrong audio system (7/26/14, 2/1/15, 6+ months!)* Missing air from some jets (7/27/14, 3/17/15, months!)* Much (manufacturing) debris in spa (This concern was noted on several occasions).* Lights intermittent #(8/17/14, 10/3/14, weeks)Andrew was notified about the 10/replacement.* LED clamp cracked (1/15/15, 2/1/15, weeks)* Pumps leaking (1/28/15, 2/9/15, days)Note: First water loss communicated 9/8/14.* Large Jet stuck & cannot exchange positions (2/1/15, No resolution due to down time required).* No shut-off valve for Pump#2? (2/10/15, No response to date).* Winter mode when temp is not low (2/11/15, Reset power to system; experienced a few repeat occurrences)* Lights intermittent #(2/13/15, 2/24/15, days)No repair done, suspected loose wires?* Constant need to lower ph (Ongoing exchanges - suggested that inclear running higher was typical).* Pump#Noise (2/13/& 3/18/15,no action at that time - repair person suggested to monitor)* Lights intermittent #(2/10/16, 4/21/16, weeks)Replaced, Need to monitor.* Inclear system erratic (2/13/& 2/10/& 4/4/16, ?)RecurrencesSeveral cleaningsNot used until resolved.* Pump#shut-off not completely shutting off (2/15/16, Andrew suggested debris as cause/complete draining of spa - We suspect additional hose going to Pump#is causing the slow drain as it bypasses the valve)* Pump#leaks (4/21/16, Current recurring issue requiring root cause resolution along with inclear erratic behavior)In summary: If you review the several hundred e-mail communications that we have shared since the contract (5/19/14) and (7/25/14) delivery of our spa, we hope you appreciate the frustrations experienced trying to enjoy your product, especially given the amount of problems and timeframes it took to get resolution to these issuesWith any manufacturing process, products' performance and quality issues typically fall within statistical bell-shaped curveIf a product falls outside that curve, something unique must be going on that requires further investigationWe can only surmise, based on your communications, that you have a great product and that ours happen to fall outside the normThat said, we conclude the following as resolution options: Resolution requested:We believe that there is an underlying issue with this particular spa that is causing these failuresMost notably the pump seal leaksThis leads us to conclude that the ultimate resolution should be to replace it or to take it back for refundWe believe the in-clear system is highly suspect, but if you take the spa back, you can evaluate the problem to root cause, which will enable you to enhance your manufacturing quality control processes.Considering the ongoing troubles since day 1, our only acceptable alternative to the above proposed resolution is to get the product to a satisfactory working condition which mimics a new purchase so that we may have an extended timeframe of trouble free use to rebuild confidence that this unit is in a reliable stateHaving us arrange to have the pump installed is unacceptableBoth labor and parts should be covered under warrantyFurthermore, the spa should be checked for a root cause problem as our fears are that replacing the pump will only lead to future failures of the sameThis could then lead to replacement of root cause part(s), complete replacement and/or refundIf the path of functional repair is recommended, then we expect to have full warranty reinstated as if it was a new purchase, with a note that repeat failures of previously experienced failures will also be covered as recurrences would be an indication that root cause has not yet been addressed.Again, we hope we can come to an agreeable resolution on thisSincerely;*** *** *** ***
I am trying to have these repairs which are covered under a warrantyWhat is your desired settlement? I want my hot tub repairedWhat are you seeking from the business? I want them to come out and fix what is under warranty.If they refuse to repair my hot tub, then refund $for my warranty
I have reviewed the response made by the business in reference to complaint ID ***, and have determined that this does not resolve my complaint. For your reference, details of the offer I reviewed appear below. The fact is that in regard to the cover lifters, Life's Great did say they would replace the brackets and failed to do so with correct brackets. They also did not respond to dozens of emails to stipulate anything to the contrary as they did in the response to this claim. They clearly stated they would rectify the situation. Here are Andrew's exact words to me when asked if he received the pictures of the cover: 'I did and I am not sure of issue ! Looks wrong to me I will ship new lifters and Have Jason install will be in contact soon' The brackets sent were not the right ones and he did not send anyone to install as he said. Regardless of warranty, he made this commitment and did not stand by itInstead of communicating with me, he just ignored my attempts to contact him. Regarding the cracked jet housing. I sent a picture and video to show the issues, also on the bill I scanned and sent to Andrew it states there is a crack in the jet. This is not wear and tear. This is the warranty information I was given, and they did not even have the manual available until March of - I made numerous attempts to obtain a copy of a manual from Nov until the time they published it in 2013, therefore any warranty information in this manual should be null and void for my spa and the following (which is also on their website) should be adhered to. The swim jet is clearly equipment.Structural Warranty: Year Surface Warranty: Year Plumbing Warranty: Year Equipment Warranty: Year Labor Warranty: Year
Regards,
*** ***
Revdex.com:I have reviewed the response made by the business
in reference to complaint ID ***, and have determined that this does not
resolve my complaint. For your reference, details of the offer I reviewed
appear below.I will simply restate our position below which translates
to "This manufacturer is violating the terms of our contract".On
5/19/we entered a contract based on the conversation at the Auburn, Ca
home-show. We had lengthy conversations about our concern to have a reliable
product. The Mfg (Andrew) assured
us he would stand behind his product. To back that
up, he included the year full money back guarantee, in case
we were not fully satisfied with the
spa. Both of us documented the
warranty terms which have been provided in these communications several times
now: 1) We documented the contract (including warranty) terms in the emails
exchanged about agreeing on the deal2) The Mfg (Andrew) documented in the
contract he sent us for signing, clearly restating the (i quote): "Full warranty
in effect, Year parts and labor warranty, etc..".).There were NO
exclusions mentioned during our conversations, nor were any exclusions (i.e
referring to the manual) in the contract that we entered. By coming up with
these exclusions after the contract was signed the manufacturer is
violating the terms of the contract we originally entered. It is as simple as
that.This manufacturer continues to come up with excuses to try and come
up with warranty coverage exclusions in these communications, such as travel to
our site, a technician evaluating the problem, etc... Calling the last response
his 'final response' as he has done before is just another bully tactic to get
us to settle for less that we are entitled to under the terms of the contractA
plain, blanket year warranty for the spa (The entire spa with all it's
component, without any exclusions) should be exactly as stated and written in
our contract and he needs to honor that.Anything less than a solution to
the warranted problems we face with this spa, which includes zero expense out of
our pocket for us to resolution, is simply unacceptable. We are more than
willing to provide local contacts for the manufacturer to work with to arrange
coming out to fix whatever is broken and as stated before we are also willing to
review any settlement / buy-back offer that the manufacturer is willing to offer
to close this complaint with an acceptable outcome.Regards,*** *** *** ***
Revdex.com:I have reviewed the response made by the business in reference to complaint ID ***, and have determined that this does not resolve my complaint. For your reference, details of the offer I reviewed appear below
*** *** *** ***
To: Life’s Great Spas Inc- att: Andrew ***.Thank you for responding so quickly to this BB complaintWe appreciate your detailed and thoughtful review of our complaints since owning the SpaAs a result, we hope we can come to an agreeable resolutionAs stated when we started our engagement, we appreciate and support your efforts to bring manufacturing back to the USA and hope that you stand behind your product as you indicated to us when we met at the Auburn, Ca homeshow.Please do note that we respectfully disagree with many of the statements made within your responseWe have retained records of all of the communications we have exchanged, however we will try and focus on some of the key points here to hopefully lead to an agreeable resolutionBelow are some responses to some of the statements you made in your responseThese responses reference facts as shared belowAt the end of this response, we will summarize our position for your review.Quotes (Q:) and our (R:) responses:Q: "These parts were over year past the warranty period dates...."R: Please note that the spa was ordered 5/19/and delivered on 7/25/This was after a spa with the wrong options was attempted to be delivered on 7/10/and you rushed to have one made with the correct optionsThe leak problem was reported on 1/28/(See attached eMail)The lights issue was reported 8/17/and again 10/3/So clearly both were well within the year warranty period.Q: "The current issue stated by consumer, of loud pump...."R: Pump#replacement loudness was noted immediately after installation, hence not a recent issue caused by the new leaks (See attached 2/13/and 3/18/emails).Q: "Retailer in California and approach to handling issues..."R: While we appreciate differences that existed amongst yourselves (We received controversial feedback from your company, the Ca retailer and the local repair persons), you might appreciate that, as a customer this should not be our problemThis purchase was made based on direct dealing with yourself and Lauren when you visited the Auburn, Ca homeshow on 5/16/We have included you and Lauren on most, if not all, communicationsThe local Ca company was introduced as an intermediary to complete the initial purchase transaction on 5/19/and was engaged to provide local repairsDue to their poor responses and communications we had no choice but to use direct communications with your company as an escalation path for unacceptable performanceWe were not instructed to follow any other path to get resolution to deal with the ongoing issues experienced.Q: "Your response to "Not being able to use the spa...."R: Please note that the volume of issues, most notably flickering lights, leaks and sanitation systems not working, caused us potential health concerns, including fear of risk for electrical shock (acknowledging there may be GFI safeguards)In addition as you review the list of repairs below, it clearly shows that several of the functions of the spa have not been working for months (notably, the audio, lights and air from jets)All of this has resulted in limited and at times suspended use until issues were resolved.Q: "This complaint was received upon the same day in which the consumer sent an email to our website, threatening legal pursuit."R: Here is what we posted to the website: ""What is your warranty resolution processDirect Mails to Andrew and Lauren are completely ignored at this timeIf we don't hear back soon we will have to take other means to get resolution." We did not say we would take legal action and as you can see we went to the Revdex.com at this time due to the ongoing challenges to get a continuously properly working product.Issue notifications dates & facts (Notified, resolution, resolution timeframe):* Purchase & Delivery (5/19/14, 7/25/14, weeks)* Wrong audio system (7/26/14, 2/1/15, 6+ months!)* Missing air from some jets (7/27/14, 3/17/15, months!)* Much (manufacturing) debris in spa (This concern was noted on several occasions).* Lights intermittent #(8/17/14, 10/3/14, weeks)Andrew was notified about the 10/replacement.* LED clamp cracked (1/15/15, 2/1/15, weeks)* Pumps leaking (1/28/15, 2/9/15, days)Note: First water loss communicated 9/8/14.* Large Jet stuck & cannot exchange positions (2/1/15, No resolution due to down time required).* No shut-off valve for Pump#2? (2/10/15, No response to date).* Winter mode when temp is not low (2/11/15, Reset power to system; experienced a few repeat occurrences)* Lights intermittent #(2/13/15, 2/24/15, days)No repair done, suspected loose wires?* Constant need to lower ph (Ongoing exchanges - suggested that inclear running higher was typical).* Pump#Noise (2/13/& 3/18/15,no action at that time - repair person suggested to monitor)* Lights intermittent #(2/10/16, 4/21/16, weeks)Replaced, Need to monitor.* Inclear system erratic (2/13/& 2/10/& 4/4/16, ?)RecurrencesSeveral cleaningsNot used until resolved.* Pump#shut-off not completely shutting off (2/15/16, Andrew suggested debris as cause/complete draining of spa - We suspect additional hose going to Pump#is causing the slow drain as it bypasses the valve)* Pump#leaks (4/21/16, Current recurring issue requiring root cause resolution along with inclear erratic behavior)In summary: If you review the several hundred e-mail communications that we have shared since the contract (5/19/14) and (7/25/14) delivery of our spa, we hope you appreciate the frustrations experienced trying to enjoy your product, especially given the amount of problems and timeframes it took to get resolution to these issuesWith any manufacturing process, products' performance and quality issues typically fall within statistical bell-shaped curveIf a product falls outside that curve, something unique must be going on that requires further investigationWe can only surmise, based on your communications, that you have a great product and that ours happen to fall outside the normThat said, we conclude the following as resolution options: Resolution requested:We believe that there is an underlying issue with this particular spa that is causing these failuresMost notably the pump seal leaksThis leads us to conclude that the ultimate resolution should be to replace it or to take it back for refundWe believe the in-clear system is highly suspect, but if you take the spa back, you can evaluate the problem to root cause, which will enable you to enhance your manufacturing quality control processes.Considering the ongoing troubles since day 1, our only acceptable alternative to the above proposed resolution is to get the product to a satisfactory working condition which mimics a new purchase so that we may have an extended timeframe of trouble free use to rebuild confidence that this unit is in a reliable stateHaving us arrange to have the pump installed is unacceptableBoth labor and parts should be covered under warrantyFurthermore, the spa should be checked for a root cause problem as our fears are that replacing the pump will only lead to future failures of the sameThis could then lead to replacement of root cause part(s), complete replacement and/or refundIf the path of functional repair is recommended, then we expect to have full warranty reinstated as if it was a new purchase, with a note that repeat failures of previously experienced failures will also be covered as recurrences would be an indication that root cause has not yet been addressed.Again, we hope we can come to an agreeable resolution on thisSincerely;*** *** *** ***
I am trying to have these repairs which are covered under a warrantyWhat is your desired settlement? I want my hot tub repairedWhat are you seeking from the business? I want them to come out and fix what is under warranty.If they refuse to repair my hot tub, then refund $for my warranty
I have reviewed the response made by the business in reference to complaint ID ***, and have determined that this does not resolve my complaint. For your reference, details of the offer I reviewed appear below. The fact is that in regard to the cover lifters, Life's Great did say they would replace the brackets and failed to do so with correct brackets. They also did not respond to dozens of emails to stipulate anything to the contrary as they did in the response to this claim. They clearly stated they would rectify the situation. Here are Andrew's exact words to me when asked if he received the pictures of the cover: 'I did and I am not sure of issue ! Looks wrong to me I will ship new lifters and Have Jason install will be in contact soon' The brackets sent were not the right ones and he did not send anyone to install as he said. Regardless of warranty, he made this commitment and did not stand by itInstead of communicating with me, he just ignored my attempts to contact him. Regarding the cracked jet housing. I sent a picture and video to show the issues, also on the bill I scanned and sent to Andrew it states there is a crack in the jet. This is not wear and tear. This is the warranty information I was given, and they did not even have the manual available until March of - I made numerous attempts to obtain a copy of a manual from Nov until the time they published it in 2013, therefore any warranty information in this manual should be null and void for my spa and the following (which is also on their website) should be adhered to. The swim jet is clearly equipment.Structural Warranty: Year Surface Warranty: Year Plumbing Warranty: Year Equipment Warranty: Year Labor Warranty: Year
Regards,
*** ***
Revdex.com:I have reviewed the response made by the business
in reference to complaint ID ***, and have determined that this does not
resolve my complaint. For your reference, details of the offer I reviewed
appear below.I will simply restate our position below which translates
to "This manufacturer is violating the terms of our contract".On
5/19/we entered a contract based on the conversation at the Auburn, Ca
home-show. We had lengthy conversations about our concern to have a reliable
product. The Mfg (Andrew) assured
us he would stand behind his product. To back that
up, he included the year full money back guarantee, in case
we were not fully satisfied with the
spa. Both of us documented the
warranty terms which have been provided in these communications several times
now: 1) We documented the contract (including warranty) terms in the emails
exchanged about agreeing on the deal2) The Mfg (Andrew) documented in the
contract he sent us for signing, clearly restating the (i quote): "Full warranty
in effect, Year parts and labor warranty, etc..".).There were NO
exclusions mentioned during our conversations, nor were any exclusions (i.e
referring to the manual) in the contract that we entered. By coming up with
these exclusions after the contract was signed the manufacturer is
violating the terms of the contract we originally entered. It is as simple as
that.This manufacturer continues to come up with excuses to try and come
up with warranty coverage exclusions in these communications, such as travel to
our site, a technician evaluating the problem, etc... Calling the last response
his 'final response' as he has done before is just another bully tactic to get
us to settle for less that we are entitled to under the terms of the contractA
plain, blanket year warranty for the spa (The entire spa with all it's
component, without any exclusions) should be exactly as stated and written in
our contract and he needs to honor that.Anything less than a solution to
the warranted problems we face with this spa, which includes zero expense out of
our pocket for us to resolution, is simply unacceptable. We are more than
willing to provide local contacts for the manufacturer to work with to arrange
coming out to fix whatever is broken and as stated before we are also willing to
review any settlement / buy-back offer that the manufacturer is willing to offer
to close this complaint with an acceptable outcome.Regards,*** *** *** ***