Lifetime Exteriors of Wisconsin, LLC

Response 1: Yes, we did install this client’s roof on August 2, and were very happy and appreciative to do soWe replaced the roof, did a minor repair to the fascia board and hung new seamless guttersThe installation was done as I had promised, above and beyondUnfortunately, the client does not understand that the fascia board is not the root of his problemI have tried to the best of my ability to explain to him what the real issue isThe client has an older home which has not been insulated in the entire time he has resided thereHe admitted to having had ice buildup on the edge of the roof and in the guttersGutters do not pull fascia boards out of roof truss tails on their ownThis occurs when the gutters and/or truss tails endure extreme weight due to ice buildup (ice dams)Screws hold very tightly and will not pull out unless there are extenuating circumstancesThe lack of insulation and buildup of ice are both issues that are out of mine and my company’s controlI explained this in depth to our client, as well as how those issues could be remediedIf the fascia were to be fixed without insulating, the ice will continue to build up and once again pull the fascia board out of the truss tailsI informed him how properly insulating his attic would keep the ice from building up and save him 30%-50% off of his yearly energy billI also told him about a government program I participate in that could give him $2,towards the projectThis would save him 48% off the cost with a 30%-50% yearly energy savingsThis upgrade would pay for itself in 2-years after which he would be saving moneyI also explained that we would properly fix the truss tails which the fascia board adheres toWe would love to fix every client’s issues free of charge and do, if there is an issue with our workmanship or productIn this particular instance, there was not an issue with the workmanship or the productI did all that I could to educate our client about the real issue he was faced withIt is clear my efforts were in vain and the client had his mind made up prior to speaking with anyone from our companyI would like to further address issues the client noted in his reviewI did look at the problem he described, accompanied by my supervisor of ten years, (who had done the physical work on this project)We do not work weekends like many companies so that is why the client would not have seen me over the holiday weekendWhen I called the client, I did make a comment in regard to the background noiseIt was very hard to hear him and I wanted to have an effective and meaningful conversation with himMy intention was not to sound arrogant or condescendingThe client admittedly repeated that he knew nothing about constructionI tried my best to educate him about the root of his issue as well as the almost 50% of the cost I could get covered for him, with financial payback in the futureI sincerely believe that anything less than fixing a problem which we were not liable for free of charge would be the only way to make this client happyI am truly sorry that this client feels the way he does and wish him the best of luck in his future endeavors.Response 2: As stated in my first response, we did minor fascia repairsThis is very common and is done on almost every jobIt is nothing that would or could raise a red flag at the time of installationAs the gutter sits now, ice and/or water cannot get behind the fascia board unless ice damming is occurringThis would come in from above the fascia, not from the gutter upThe client did call July 3rd but was not given a specific day or time as to when I could come to his propertyMy office staff is required to confirm appointments with me beforehandWe also almost always have a backlog and were coming upon a holiday weekendAt any rate, I did stop by mid-morning Monday, July 6th while I was out doing other business related activitiesIt is clear to me that the issue lies deeper than the fascia boardThis home is very old – I would guess fifty plus yearsThe fascia and soffit are wood and original to the homeTo complicate things, there is a fascia board placed over the original fascia boardThis may also be original to the homeOlder homes often have very ornate wood work which requires vigilant maintenanceThis situation was not this way upon completion of the job, otherwise, we wouldn’t’ be hearing this two years laterThere are many reasons this could be happening that have nothing to do with the workmanshipHouses move, they contract and expandWood gets old and rotsHouses are not square and this house, because of its age, is not square to say the leastThe wood work has been painted many times covering what could have been indicators of required replacementThe reason this may not be happening elsewhere; like the front of the house, there is no overlay of a second fascia board on the frontThere is no way to see into a structure to see if wood covered by wood is dry rotted or water damagedBeing the house is as old as it is, there could be many problems or combinations of problemsWhen we were hired we were contracted to do the roof and install guttersMinor carpentry issues to the roof deck and fascia are commonMinor ----- jobWe were not contracted to dismantle the fascia and soffit or do any work involving the atticThat would be the only way to know what’s going on deeper into the structuresThe fascia looked fine at the time of install barring the common minor repairsThe gutter is held on with screws and as you noted, there is a minor repair made by using 6, 3” screwsThe common way of attaching fascia and soffit is by using nailsNails do not hold nearly as well as screwsIf there are screws attaching the gutter to the outer-laying fascia board every 2’ down a 65’ run and then screws in a specific location for extra holding powerThe over-laying (second fascia board) is pulling away from the underlying fasciaThe previous mentioned issues are impossible for an exterior remodeling contractor to spot, predict or preventThe combination of the age of the home, unsquareness of the home, the natural processes of contraction and expansion combined with eternal forces (such as snow and ice) may have led to this issue that is concentrated toward the end of the houseFrom the type of work we were hired to do, there is no reason for us to believe this would happenIt is not a result of product or workmanshipHowever, we did offer long term money saving solutions to help our clientI believe we were and continue to be very helpfulI was not at all upset with the client; I was in fact happy to try to remedy the situationWe would really like to help, however we have a business to operate and we can’t do work for free when the issues aren’t related to product failure or poor workmanshipIn summary, old homes have issues as noted aboveHad these issues been known at time of install, steps would have been made to try and prevent themThose steps would be the same as in my original response: proper insulation as well as dismantling the fascia and soffitI’m sorry the client is frustrated but as homeowners, aren’t well all at one time or another? We wish our client the best of luck in his future endeavors

Revdex.com: I have reviewed the response made by the business in reference to complaint ID [redacted] , and have determined that this does not resolve my complaint For your reference, details of the offer I reviewed appear below I am very hesitant to reply to this, since I received a CEASE & DESIST letter threatening future legal action as a result of this complaint, due to "attacks on the character of [redacted] ***" However, I have to respond either accepting or rejecting the business response Since [redacted] has made no attempts to contact me or work with me and my gutter and fascia still isn't fixed, I am rejecting it.In my opinion, [redacted] made up his mind before even looking at what the issue was The reason I think this is because I received a voicemail on Friday July 3rd from [redacted] stating that the repair was not covered, however he stated in his response he did not go out to look at the gutters until Monday July 6th In that voicemal, he stated "The only way the fascia boards can come off the house is if they were compromised prior to the gutters coming off, and the nails are pulling out or something like that" I AGREE 100%! THE FASCIA BOARDS WERE COMPROMISED TWO YEARS AGO! I believe the workers knew they were comprimised too, since they performed a "minor repair" and put longer than screws in for "extra holding power" Why would they feel "extra holding power" was needed unless there was an issue?One other thing I found while looking at the gutter was a large chunk of screen over the downspout in the corner that is having the problem The screen was left over from the gutter guards that were installed by this company Unfortunately since it was over the downspout, it was causing anything that made it through the gutter guards (pine needles and "helicopter" seeds) to clog up the downspout I believe this may have caused water to gather in the gutter, freeze over the winter, and make the gutters very heavy, pulling away from the house I'm not sure if this would be considered an "issue with workmanship", so I don't know if it would be covered I'm sure it was just an accident that it was left in the gutter, but it may have contributed to the issue.Either way, [redacted] wanted to charge me $for the repair, including removal and reinstall of the gutters I understand this is part of the repair process, but in my opinion, if these fascia boards had been replaced during the roof and gutter install, the charge would have been much, much less since the gutters were already off, and the crew was already out there This is all I wanted: To not be charged for the removal and reinstall of the gutters I would be happy to pay for the materials and labor for the actual fascia repair, just as I would have been happy to pay for it years ago if it had been brought to my attention I did not expect free work.I first called to get help with this almost months ago It's dragged on so long I'm tired of dealing with it I have already received other estimates that were 50-60% of what [redacted] quoted, and they aren't even "trying to work with me" or "trying to make me happy" I will be contacting one of those companies for the repair Regards, [redacted]

Revdex.com:
I have reviewed the response made by the business in reference to complaint ID [redacted], and have determined that this does not resolve my complaint.  For your reference, details of the offer I reviewed appear below.
I am very hesitant to reply to this, since I received a CEASE & DESIST letter threatening future legal action as a result of this complaint, due to "attacks on the character of [redacted]".  However, I have to respond either accepting or rejecting the business response.  Since [redacted] has made no attempts to contact me or work with me and my gutter and fascia still isn't fixed, I am rejecting it.In my opinion, [redacted] made up his mind before even looking at what the issue was.  The reason I think this is because I received a voicemail on Friday July 3rd from [redacted] stating that the repair was not covered, however he stated in his response he did not go out to look at the gutters until Monday July 6th.  In that voicemal, he stated "The only way the fascia boards can come off the house is if they were compromised prior to the gutters coming off, and the nails are pulling out or something like that".  I AGREE 100%!  THE FASCIA BOARDS WERE COMPROMISED TWO YEARS AGO!  I believe the workers knew they were comprimised too, since they performed a "minor repair" and put longer than normal screws in for "extra holding power".  Why would they feel "extra holding power" was needed unless there was an issue?One other thing I found while looking at the gutter was a large chunk of screen over the downspout in the corner that is having the problem.  The screen was left over from the gutter guards that were installed by this company.  Unfortunately since it was over the downspout, it was causing anything that made it through the gutter guards (pine needles and "helicopter" seeds) to clog up the downspout.  I believe this may have caused water to gather in the gutter, freeze over the winter, and make the gutters very heavy, pulling away from the house.  I'm not sure if this would be considered an "issue with workmanship", so I don't know if it would be covered.  I'm sure it was just an accident that it was left in the gutter, but it may have contributed to the issue.Either way, [redacted] wanted to charge me $640 for the repair, including removal and reinstall of the gutters.  I understand this is part of the repair process, but in my opinion, if these fascia boards had been replaced during the roof and gutter install, the charge would have been much, much less since the gutters were already off, and the crew was already out there.  This is all I wanted:  To not be charged for the removal and reinstall of the gutters.  I would be happy to pay for the materials and labor for the actual fascia repair, just as I would have been happy to pay for it 2 years ago if it had been brought to my attention.  I did not expect free work.I first called to get help with this almost 2 months ago.  It's dragged on so long I'm tired of dealing with it.  I have already received other estimates that were 50-60% of what [redacted] quoted, and they aren't even "trying to work with me" or "trying to make me happy".  I will be contacting one of those companies for the repair
Regards,
[redacted]

Response 1: Yes, we did install this client’s roof on August 2, 2013 and were very happy and appreciative to do so. We replaced the roof, did a minor repair to the fascia board and hung new seamless gutters. The installation was done as I had promised, above and beyond. Unfortunately, the client...

does not understand that the fascia board is not the root of his problem. I have tried to the best of my ability to explain to him what the real issue is. The client has an older home which has not been insulated in the entire time he has resided there. He admitted to having had ice buildup on the edge of the roof and in the gutters. Gutters do not pull fascia boards out of roof truss tails on their own. This occurs when the gutters and/or truss tails endure extreme weight due to ice buildup (ice dams). Screws hold very tightly and will not pull out unless there are extenuating circumstances. The lack of insulation and buildup of ice are both issues that are out of mine and my company’s control. I explained this in depth to our client, as well as how those issues could be remedied. If the fascia were to be fixed without insulating, the ice will continue to build up and once again pull the fascia board out of the truss tails. I informed him how properly insulating his attic would keep the ice from building up and save him 30%-50% off of his yearly energy bill. I also told him about a government program I participate in that could give him $2,500.00 towards the project. This would save him 48% off the cost with a 30%-50% yearly energy savings. This upgrade would pay for itself in 2-3 years after which he would be saving money. I also explained that we would properly fix the truss tails which the fascia board adheres to. We would love to fix every client’s issues free of charge and do, if there is an issue with our workmanship or product. In this particular instance, there was not an issue with the workmanship or the product. I did all that I could to educate our client about the real issue he was faced with. It is clear my efforts were in vain and the client had his mind made up prior to speaking with anyone from our company. I would like to further address issues the client noted in his review. I did look at the problem he described, accompanied by my supervisor of ten years, (who had done the physical work on this project). We do not work weekends like many companies so that is why the client would not have seen me over the holiday weekend. When I called the client, I did make a comment in regard to the background noise. It was very hard to hear him and I wanted to have an effective and meaningful conversation with him. My intention was not to sound arrogant or condescending. The client admittedly repeated that he knew nothing about construction. I tried my best to educate him about the root of his issue as well as the almost 50% of the cost I could get covered for him, with financial payback in the future. I sincerely believe that anything less than fixing a problem which we were not liable for free of charge would be the only way to make this client happy. I am truly sorry that this client feels the way he does and wish him the best of luck in his future endeavors.Response 2: As stated in my first response, we did minor fascia repairs. This is very common and is done on almost every job. It is nothing that would or could raise a red flag at the time of installation. As the gutter sits now, ice and/or water cannot get behind the fascia board unless ice damming is occurring. This would come in from above the fascia, not from the gutter up. The client did call July 3rd but was not given a specific day or time as to when I could come to his property. My office staff is required to confirm appointments with me beforehand. We also almost always have a backlog and were coming upon a holiday weekend. At any rate, I did stop by mid-morning Monday, July 6th while I was out doing other business related activities. It is clear to me that the issue lies deeper than the fascia board. This home is very old – I would guess fifty plus years. The fascia and soffit are wood and original to the home. To complicate things, there is a fascia board placed over the original fascia board. This may also be original to the home. Older homes often have very ornate wood work which requires vigilant maintenance. This situation was not this way upon completion of the job, otherwise, we wouldn’t’ be hearing this two years later. There are many reasons this could be happening that have nothing to do with the workmanship. Houses move, they contract and expand. Wood gets old and rots. Houses are not square and this house, because of its age, is not square to say the least. The wood work has been painted many times covering what could have been indicators of required replacement. The reason this may not be happening elsewhere; like the front of the house, there is no overlay of a second fascia board on the front. There is no way to see into a structure to see if wood covered by wood is dry rotted or water damaged. Being the house is as old as it is, there could be many problems or combinations of problems. When we were hired we were contracted to do the roof and install gutters. Minor carpentry issues to the roof deck and fascia are common. Minor ----- job. We were not contracted to dismantle the fascia and soffit or do any work involving the attic. That would be the only way to know what’s going on deeper into the structures. The fascia looked fine at the time of install barring the common minor repairs. The gutter is held on with screws and as you noted, there is a minor repair made by using 6, 3” screws. The common way of attaching fascia and soffit is by using nails. Nails do not hold nearly as well as screws. If there are screws attaching the gutter to the outer-laying fascia board every 2’ down a 65’ run and then 6 screws in a specific location for extra holding power. The over-laying (second fascia board) is pulling away from the underlying fascia. The previous mentioned issues are impossible for an exterior remodeling contractor to spot, predict or prevent. The combination of the age of the home, unsquareness of the home, the natural processes of contraction and expansion combined with eternal forces (such as snow and ice) may have led to this issue that is concentrated toward the end of the house. From the type of work we were hired to do, there is no reason for us to believe this would happen. It is not a result of product or workmanship. However, we did offer long term money saving solutions to help our client. I believe we were and continue to be very helpful. I was not at all upset with the client; I was in fact happy to try to remedy the situation. We would really like to help, however we have a business to operate and we can’t do work for free when the issues aren’t related to product failure or poor workmanship. In summary, old homes have issues as noted above. Had these issues been known at time of install, steps would have been made to try and prevent them. Those steps would be the same as in my original response: proper insulation as well as dismantling the fascia and soffit. I’m sorry the client is frustrated but as homeowners, aren’t well all at one time or another? We wish our client the best of luck in his future endeavors.