Lori's Web Design

Review: I hired Lori [redacted] to design a 15-page e-commerce website. Her website lists her skills as being able to produce "custom web design using hand-coded HTML." I provided her with several sketches and website examples to show her the type of professional site that I was looking for. She assured me that she would be able to complete the work.However, Lori struggled with basic web design. The website was extremely sloppy and contained spacing and spelling errors. The quality of the work was simply unacceptable. She became increasingly frustrated when I requested changes and began telling me that she had spent "too much time" on the site already. Her comments bordered on hostile. I voiced my concerns that I could sense her frustration and that I wanted to find a way to improve our communication, but she dismissed my concerns.After several weeks of struggling, Lori admitted that she is "not a programmer" and that she was spending a lot of time trying to figure out how to do things. The quality of the site never improved and was quite frankly embarrassing to look at. It was unusable for business purposes.Lori required half of her fee up front, which I paid. When Lori's communication became unprofessional and the site was still such poor quality, I terminated the agreement. I requested that she return half of the deposit. At the time of the termination she had not even completed ONE page of the original 15-page agreement. I felt that half of the deposit more than adequately covered any time she had spent so far, and that it was a reasonable compromise. Lori has refused to refund any money. She promised she could deliver a professional website, but in reality she lacked the skills to do so. In essence, she took my money and made promises she couldn't keep.Desired Settlement: I would like half of my deposit refunded to me. At this point I am left with nothing. The site is garbage and unusable, yet she wants to keep the entire deposit. Refunding half is a fair compromise.

Business

Response:

Rebecca,

Estimate:

My estimate to complete your website was based on the time to complete the project (how else do you assume someone figures up the cost to design a website??) You didn't ask for an hourly breakdown and I wouldn't give it anyway because some tasks often end up taking less time and others more time than I estimated but it usually evens out in the end. I usually either give a refund if I over estimated the cost or request more funds if there were unforeseen circumstances. In this case YOU decided to end this project. Not me. I was willing to keep on working.

Time Frame to Completion:

The original agreement stated a timeframe of two months for completion from the time I receive all needed text and images (which includes the layout). So far I have only received data for the home page and the bingo page. So the two month time frame hasn't even started yet.

Learning time:

I do not charge for my learning time to set up a new feature like a new slideshow and that wasn't included in my work time on your site, not the time it took to find it. The 30 hours solely involved working on your website.

Your Layout Sketches:

I had no problem setting up the features in your sketches. I have built about 150 websites in the last 13+ years (all totally unique designs) and I write code by hand so I'm not a beginner. The problem lies in your multitude of changes in YOUR OWN design and your refusal in telling me what you don't like about certain features so I can fix them. And on top of everything else then you asked if you could start all over with a design like Unionroasted.com. Why would I want to start all over when I already spend 30 hours fixing the current design and you're still not pleased with it??

Slideshows:

The first slideshow I set up was one I have used several times so it was not a learning problem, and it didn't matter what size the images were. The 2nd slideshow required a slight learning curve (which I didn't charge for) but it was similar to the other so wasn't a problem. However, it was based on 4 full size colored photos with a 4x2 ratio layout. If you only wanted to use 4 of

your photos, instead of the 5 that were in the first slideshow, you should have said so up front as this was the reason for a lot of the edits, plus trying to squeeze 3x4 ratio photos into a 4x2 layout. As a science teacher you should have realized that problem yourself. As I explained several times, your slideshow based on pictures with a white background is another reason the finished slideshow doesn't look the same as the full color sample and also on the other two websites you liked with that style slideshow which used full color images.

Menu Buttons:

I had already set up the menu buttons according to the specifications in your layout (square buttons with gray gradient edges) when you stated they weren't what you wanted (in spite of it being your own design) yet you wouldn't tell me what was wrong with them so I could fix them. When you asked me to supply other sample menu button designs I was willing to change them but requested you find them yourself because, besides the fact this project was already going over budget, I had stated in the estimate YOU need to send the design layout yourself. I keep my prices low because I require the owner to supply the design, all images and all text as requested in the estimate.

Your Erroneous Assumptions:

You said in an earlier letter that you "assumed" that I was getting frustrated, which wasn't the case. I have a lot of patience and have had 13 years of experience in dealing with clients, and I was willing to continue. My asking you to find the buttons "led you to believe" I wasn't going to finish the work. Not so. I had no intention of quitting. That was solely your own decision. You are apparently reading your own frustrations into myself.

You wanted my Input on the Design Process:

And that I have given. Anytime the client requests something that will hurt their ranking I let them know. And I did offer suggestions on your design also --the line running across the page and under the logo for instance. I started explaining why some things wouldn't work then you complained that I was responding in too much detail. So I quit so much explaining, now you accuse me of not having a good working relationship and causing a communication breakdown when it was yourself that refused to answer my questions about fixing whatever you thought wasn't the way you wanted it.

Programming experience:

You have misunderstood what programming means. Programmers are those that design software (like shopping carts). Software and Websites are two different coding styles. A web designer can use someone else's free software programs to incorporate into a website but a web designer cannot "program" shopping cart software unless they also know programming. Web designers sometimes use software that doesn't require knowing how to write code (like Javascript or JQuery slideshows), but I can write code by hand, so I know more about coding a website than most web designers. I don't accept jobs that require programming (although I studied it briefly in college) and that's why I told you I could design your website with a cart as long as we could set up a PayPal cart as it requires no programming. Programmers charge about $150 per hour and up. I only charge $30 per hour no matter what I'm doing. And none of the samples you showed me required programming (as long as we use PayPal for the cart and could find a slideshow that

was suitable -- which we did). I would have said something if you wanted something that I couldn't accomplish.

You're upset:

I'm also upset because you decided to fire me when I have bent over backwards to meet your demands and you refused to allow me to fix whatever was wrong with the design. That is your choice.

Christian:

Being a Christian does't mean you let others rip you off. We are all to be good stewards of whatever the Lord has given us, and that includes our time.

You contacted several of my clients and they ALL gave you glowing reports of my working relationship with them. Yet you decided to fire me because YOU assumed that I didn't want to continue and you don't like this working relationship. I never said I didn't want to continue. That was solely your own decision.

I put in over 30 hours work making requested changes in YOUR designs and at $30 per hour that equals over $900. I'm willing to refund $250 but that's as far as I will go.

Take care [redacted]

Consumer

Response:

I have responded to Lori [redacted] claims. My comments are in blue, embedded within her original document. Lori has made several false claims. In addition, I believe I had more than justifiable reason for terminating the agreement.

Lori offered to give me a partial refund. However, I have not received that refund.

Thank you,

Rebecca Tippett

Business

Response:

5-21-13

In response to [redacted]'s response of 5-16-13:

Re building a "dynamic Website”:

Definition of Dynamic: "marked by continuous and productive activity or change."

In web design terms the word "dynamic” involves features that continually change on a website or building a shopping cart where the content of the pages change depending on the words used in search. Shopping carts are built from a database and don't have static pages. Your site was not built as a shopping cart although it would have linked to one. A website that is non-dynamic has static pages that don't change, and the only things that change are moving parts like animations, slideshows, mouseovers on menu buttons, etc. We were well on the way to the later.

I asked you repeatedly, when you stated that the website wasn't how you envisioned, what changes you wanted, and you never answered.

In every website sample you offered, you repeatedly stated you liked the look of the clean layout in each. You wanted a site that is "clean”, "modern" and "sleek". Your website has a clean layout. Your website also incorporated the latest coding standards and the slideshow was a modern style and the page loaded fast, i.e., clean, modern and sleek.

If you were in a restaurant you wouldn't tell the waiter, "I want something good to eat", and then demand they cook multiple meals until you found one you liked. If you wanted me to change something that I had worked up you should have been more specific.

I asked you if there were other features you wanted incorporated from the website samples but never got a response. I cannot take a website and copy the exact same design, that would be copyright infringement. However I can take basic ideas and incorporate those, as long as they aren't copied exactly, i.e., use the square buttons in top menu from one site you liked, apply gradient borders, written in my own coding, which I did. I could have easily tweaked them being as you didn't like them, i.e., a lighter gradient, a narrower gradient, a different color, etc. You never said what was wrong with them.

Re Multiple Layouts:

There are some designers that will work up multiple layouts for a customer (usually based on a large library of templates, i.e., carbon copies of other websites they have on hand).

I'm not one of them. I write code by hand, and every website I produce is unique from all others, not carbon-copies.

Those other designers also charge 3 to 4 to 5 or more times than I do to allow for the time to work up multiple layouts. I always request a layout from the client and work from that layout, and tweak it until they like it. I took your layout, set it up according to your

sketch/Word mock-up, but you weren't interested in tweaking it. I even set up a 2nd layout you proposed. You didn’t like that either.

In the estimate I sent you, I stated YOU need to send a "Layout of text and images set up in Word or PDF files”. If you will notice it did NOT say send me "several layouts".

You just wrongly assumed I would be willing to set up multiple layouts. Not so! In order to do that I would have to increase my estimate prices 3,4, 5 fold which are based on how long it will take to produce 3,4, 5 layouts. I always add in extra time in the estimate for tweaking but not for setting up 3,4, 5 layouts. That would be unfair to those clients that know what they want and can express it clearly.

Re Layout Approved:

I had said, once you approve of the layout (setting up your drawings in HTML format), then I can set up a template with the header, footer, menu(s) already incorporated. Then the other pages only need the main content added and they go quickly. We never got to the template stage because you didn't want to tweak the ROUGH DRAFT.

I don't need to set up a layout of your layout or send you sketches of YOUR sketches. That . is ridiculous! The web page I provided was the ROUGH DRAFT of my analysis of your sketches/layout/mock-up in Word. You didn't like the result but never told me what was wrong with it.

Re Gradient Gray Shading:

You said in your last letter, "I wanted her to emulate the gradient gray shading as used on the Cooks Garden website". I did incorporate the gradient gray shading except you wanted it on all edges. If it wasn’t light enough, after I lightened it at your request the first time, you should have said to lighten it some more. There are probably 50 different shades of gray, and as I explained before, colors appear darker on Windows than on the Mac and told you I could change it again after the initial tweak. But I got no answer.

Re Slideshow Pictures not being large enough:

The website I worked up was 960 pixels in width (this width displays nicely on an iPad in horizontal view). The space allotted for the left sidebar was 200 pixels, which left 760 pixels for the content area. There is padding on both sides of the content area plus the gradient border around the slideshow which leaves the space allotted for the slideshow of 650 pixels. The large images take up 400 pixels and the thumbnails and text take up 250 pixels. This means the larger images were as large as possible by the last time I had changed the slideshow.

The only way to incorporate even larger images, would be to widen the whole page but then it wouldn’t fit within the iPad dimensions and the web page was already larger than what you had designed in the Word Mock-up anyway ("template - home page

revised4.docx or 5). Your mock-up was about 700 pixels wide (that size is no longer acceptable for a web page so I enlarged it).

Your mock-up didn't indicate thumbnails in the slideshow either, only text. So, on your mock-up the slideshow's larger images LOOKED larger on the smaller layout when in actuality the ROUGH DRAFT of the most recent slideshow changes produced a slideshow taking up 72% of the webpage where your mockup of the slideshow only took up 66% of the page. So my final ROUGH DRAFT showed a slideshow that was much larger than on yours. They look different because you didn't include thumbnails in your mockup (only text]. You requested them later, which meant the larger images had more space in your mockup.

But when comparing your markup without thumbnails (mock-up #4 or 5) to my final rough draft (with thumbnails) the larger images are actually the same size.

Re Designing and Coding:

You said, "why is she designing and coding at the same time? Why didn't she do a mock-up or sketch, or "template" as she calls it, prior to spending the time coding?" This doesn't make any sense at all. Why should 1 draw up a sketch of your sketch or a mock-up of your mock-up? I took what you had drawn/mocked-up and set it up in code as any other web designer would have done.

And NOBODY can "make sure the look of the site was finished prior to coding". I think you need to go study up on web design so you at least understand that a web designer takes a layout and turns it into code (I sent you a copy of the code of your website—you might want to take a look at it to see what's involved). You cannot design a web page without coding it first. After the initial ROUGH DRAFT coding then it can be tweaked, until it looks right. You didn't want to move beyond the rough draft stage.

Re It's not possible:

I never said I couldn't design the site you preferred me to emulate. However your sketch/mock-up in Word was not an exact replica of your #1 preferred site. And I wouldn't set it up that way exactly anyway due to copyright issues. If the rough draft I posted wasn't to your liking you only needed to say what was wrong with it and I would have fixed it. So your accusing me of lying again is not based on fact. Anyone can look at my portfolio and see that I have designed much more complicated sites than yours.

Re slideshow not same as sample:

There is no way to make a slideshow based on full color images look the same as one with images based on a lot of white in the background. NO slideshow sample would have been any better (I looked at about 100 of them) because they were ALL based on full color images. And you are required to provide the images, not me (see the estimate). I wrongly assumed that you would have realized (being a science teacher) to understand that full

color images won't look the same as images with mostly a white background. You also didn't understand that 5 thumbnails take up more space than 4 thumbnails causing more white space around the larger images. This is a simple math equation. And see above re your mock-up of the slideshow not containing thumbnails, which you later requested, which again changes the dimensions of the slideshow.

Re Redesigning the Rough Draft:

You stated that, "at no point did she 'redesign' the rough draft". Again, you don’t understand what web design entails. When you changed the layout from the logo in the horizontal header to the logo in the vertical sidebar then I had to "redesign the layout" to fit your new design. You have no idea how long it takes to recode everything when the layout is changed. I don't work with drop and drag programs, which you may be using in Word, because the end result is a lot of code bloat causing slow loading web pages, which are a new ranking feature in Google. All the websites I build load amazingly fast due to lean code, unless the owner insists on a lot of graphics, animations or slideshows.

Re menu buttons:

You stated that I require clients to provide "graphics" which is not true. I never said you had to provide any graphics, i.e., menu buttons, however when you wanted to start all over with a new menu, rather than tweak the ones I had worked up, then I requested that you find a menu button style you liked. I never said you had to provide the buttons themselves. You couldn't do that anyway as you don't know how to code a web page. BTW, menu buttons are usually not actual buttons anyway (not images). They are built out of code in the CSS file (as your buttons were).

Again, as you already admitted, you don’t understand anything about web design or coding and are accusing me of things that are not true. Who is the author of miscommunication here?

Re starting over with a new layout/design:

You stated, "I did not demand that she start all over. My exact words were: 'would it help to try for a simpler website. I really liked the look of the Union Roasted coffee site.'"

For your information that is a totally different layout and WOULD have required starting all over with the coding. That site has the top menu all across the page (instead of in a separate column) with the slideshow on the left (instead of the right) a sidebar on the right (instead of the left) and all the other items spread across the width of the page (instead of in rows in 2nd column), i.e., a totally new layout.

You said you depended on my expertise re the design of your website, yet you don't listen to anything I say and in fact refute it, and even distort it, when you know absolutely nothing about web design.

Budget:

Translated “budget" means the amount of time I estimated your project would take based on past design projects. I never demanded more money so that charge is false also. As I said in my last response I was prepared to "eat" the loss. I had no intention of quitting. And I wouldn't have surprised you with extra charges at the end, either, without your approval before hand, and I've never done it to any client since I became a web designer either.

Spelling:

As I have repeatedly stated the website was in ROUGH DRAFT stage. I always check spelling and do the final validation of the code before it goes online. The site wasn't online yet. It was temporarily on my website hidden from search engines so you could view it as requested changes were made.

Other Designer's Comments:

Your website was still in ROUGH DRAFT STAGE when you fired me. Of course it looks like junk at that stage because it wasn't finished.

I didn't reply to other comments that I've already responded to earlier.

The bottom line is:

You have run wild with erroneous assumptions not based on facts and then threw accusations left and right based on those erroneous assumptions:

• You claimed in the last response I said I was a programmer when I specifically stated I wasn't before I ever sent you the initial estimate (I notice you didn’t admit that error in your last response).

• You claimed I should draw up a layout of your layout. The only one needed was yours.

• You claimed I should do a mockup before I code the site. Not needed when you provided the mock-up.

• You claimed you wanted a dynamic website - The slideshow and mouseover menu are dynamic features that were never finished due to your own doing. It was your choice not to animate the logo. I have multiple dynamic websites in my portfolio.

• You complained that I should make sure the look of the site was finished prior to coding, which exposes your lack of knowledge about the most basic web designing.

• You complained that I wasn't communicative enough yet you were the one who can't explain what you want (other than clean, dynamic and sleek) and won't answer questions when you say it's not what you wanted.

• You implied the website was done when it was still in rough draft stage.

• You keep claiming I don't know how to set up features on the website when you were the one preventing their being finished. The 50 websites in my portfolio prove I know how to set up multiple features on websites and more involved than yours.

• You complained the site was not finished. That's because you didn’t let me finish it.

YOU chose to terminate this project when I was willing to proceed. That was entirely your choice.

PS. I sent the agreed upon refund last Saturday, May 11. It should have gotten to you within 3-4 days.

Consumer

Response:

[To assist us in bringing this matter to a close, you must give us a reason why you are rejecting the response. If no reason is received your complaint will be closed Administratively Resolved]

I have reviewed the response made by the business in reference to complaint ID 9538662, and have determined that this does not resolve my complaint. For your reference, details of the offer I reviewed appear below.

The response given by Lori's Web Design is ridiculous. The main problem with Lori is that she just doesn't listen. In one response she claimed I sent her a "hundred" detailed e-mails telling her what was wrong, and in this response she claims that I "never told her what was wrong." She is only concerned with being "right" - not with admitting what she did wrong. The bottom line is that she is offended that I fired her, and I fired her because she just wasn't able to produce a quality website. After a month of trying to explain what I was looking for, she became frustrated and rude, and at that point I felt it was ridiculous to continue. She just wasn't able to do the job that she promised, and I think she honestly doesn't realize just how poor quality her work is compared to other web designers who charge the same amount of money.

I sent her an e-mail asking for a peaceful resolution. She doesn't listen, and I didn't see the point in continuing to argue with her. She has obviously ignored my request to act like civilized adults. This latest response is six more pages of lies and nonsense. It just isn't worth continuing anymore. Her business practices are some of the most unethical that I have ever seen, and customer service is nonexistent to her. I would NEVER treat a customer the way she has treated me! I am entitled to a FULL refund and still feel that requesting half of the deposit was a FAIR compromise. After all, I have NO website OR useful files!! She has refunded me $250 (provided the check clears), but until she refunds the other $200 I will not be satisfied - not after reading these additional ranting six pages that she sent.

Regards,