Metropolitan Marketing

We have been in phone contact with the aforementioned customer in December and it was agreed upon we will return when the weather is warmer to complete the repairThe outstanding issue is a section of ridge capping that has to be replaced on one of his lower roofs We fully intend to do so once the weather is warm enough to form the cap shingles as straight and as flat as possible to please the customer At present there is no leaking issue other than the appearance of the ridge capping only within that area It is our intent to fully replace that area of ridge capping as discussed with the customer back in December Please note; At the time the estimate of the roof was done, we were not aware the aforementioned customer was a seniorWe are pleased to send the customer a cheque in the form of $plus HST to honor the Seniors Discount, which we were not aware of Also, we would like to mention, that if another roofing company is entertained to replace the ridge capping on one of the hip rafters, this will void Mader’s Roofing Ltd warranty in its entirety We have no problem in going back and do not quite get why the customer is so irate with our firm We have no ill intent Yours truly, [redacted] ***

Initial Business Response /* (1000, 5, 2017/09/27) */
Contact Name and Title: ***
Contact Phone: ***
Contact Email: ***
Good day ***, In reference to the above numbered case complaint, I have a somewhat different side of the storyWe had
given the customer's neighbor an estimate to do her side of the roofPart of her roof area adjoined *** - lapping over an area of about 5'x8" approximatelyI had informed the neighbor it would look better in color if her neighbor did the front lower section of his roof at the same time (BTW, it did need to b e re-roofed) and give a better tie in to both units, although we could proceed as is if *** was not in a position to do so at this timeAbout a week or so later, *** calls me and requests an estimate to do his lower roofI have him an estimate for the workHe felt the cost was very high and would I do the work at a much lower costI replied"no, we cannot, but feel free to get estimates from others to compare costs"He said he did but had decided to go with us in concert with his neighbor's roof workWhen I met up with ***, I pointed out that the gable end framing and deck area was far from square or levelI had given an approximate cost to take that area apart and rebuild it, again he felt that number was ridiculous and would not entertain that for the replacement of what he called "a few boards"This area is two stories in the air and would require staging and a full day's work from the crewI tried to explain that to ***, but he would not agree to method or cost proposalI informed ***, although the roof deck and gable end are not built even or level, that they appear to be solid and we could re-roof to the shape that they are nowand that is how it was left until such time as we did the roofWhen we stripped off the old shingles it was discovered that "Ice and Water Shield" had been used over the entire surface and given the nature of what it was, could not be removed to bare woodThe shingles WERE REMOVED though, to a suitable surface to apply the new roofing shingles onwhat was left in place was the previous ice and water shieldIn order to get to bare wood, we would have had to remove the plywood decking and replace it at $*** per sqft for one, and secondly rebuild the gable end it was attached to at roughly $*** plus HSTHaving my prior conversation with ***, I was well aware he would do none of the above as he felt our costs were ridiculousWe did get the old roofing down to an acceptable level at no additional cost to *** and will give a full warranty for same as stated*** mentioned he had called my cell phone that day and left voice mail for me to call himI checked the history of my cell phone in his presence and there was no record of his call (s)He mentioned he had not been consulted about his optionsI disagree as previously mentioned conversation about same prior to commencement of projectWhen we met for payment ***was in his driveway with his hands on his hips stating the displeasure of the shape of the roof as if it were a brand new thing that had never been discussed and how he would never recommend our firm to anyone in a good wayI think we have a classic case of buyer's remorse and having to pay a bill in full without getting a significant reduction because he didn't want to do the job in the first place*** was quite disrespectful to me and int he mention of my company, at which time I informed *** that this is not my first job as a roofing contractor and we gave him the best job we could, with a warranty at no extra cost than the estimated cost itself - not letting *** disrespect me or my men any furtherI said "***, are you going to write me a cheque for your job or not?" His reply was "Yeah, I will write you a cheque!"He wrote the cheque on the truck of his car and threw it on the ground in front of me - walked up his driveway and closed his garage door and went inside - not waiting for the receipt I was giving himI took the cheque from the ground, looked at the dollar amount he had written, wrote "paid" on his Invoice/Receipt, left it on the trunk of his vehicle as he was upset and had left the area - not much else I could doWhen my secretary went to enter the cheque into deposit, it was noticed that although the correct amount was written in the numbered dollar section, the body was written in for one thousand dollars less - the cheque was invalidThe next day and several days after, my secretary tried to contact *** and inform him of the error but he did not reply until several days laterHe wrote a nasty letter to my secretary and did not offer to pay his billMy secretary than called *** and informed him that if he opts not to pay his invoice, we would give his invoice to a collection agency to collect - standard policy if someone does not pay their billGiven the unfair and nasty disposition of this customer, I will in no way offer any form of compensationHe was fully aware - prior to - as to what he hadHe now claims he was not in the loopI totally disagree and have done as we said we would, less the board removal which *** had no intention of paying for and was looking for a free ride on extra workAs mentioned to ***, "This is not my first job as a roofing contractor" and I am fully aware of what our conversations were aboutI am not in the habit of misleading people to get workWe have a very good name in the business and intend to keep it*** has paid his bill and has a warranty should his roof leakI really don't know what else to say
Initial Consumer Rebuttal /* (3000, 7, 2017/09/27) */
(The consumer indicated he/she DID NOT accept the response from the business.)
This is a complete fabricationNot only are there several outright lies, he does not even address the grounds for my complaintThis is simply an attempted assault on my character, with no grounding in fact
I do not have time to refute each lie individually nor do I care to waste my time with a person of such low moral character, but I do feel it my obligation to protect other consumers from him
To spell it out in simple terms: Mr *** was contracted to remove the old roofing material to the bare deckDisposal and labour for the removal was part of the quote and subsequent contractNo attempt was made to consult with me when they decided against doing this, even though I specifically mentioned in email (which I still have) that any changes to the contract shall be run by me
Ihave proof of an outgoing call that was received by a voicemail of Mr ***sI also have photographs of the shingles being covered in new materialFor these lies at least, I can provide proof should it be necessary
It is clear to see in the photographs how easily the shingles came up around the perimeter, where his workers did pull them up(so no one could see them when the new material was laid)
I also have all the email traffic with his secretary should I need to provide itMaybe the truth is nasty to Mr ***, but I stand by what I said in those emails as it was just that
MR *** set the price to do the jobHe did not fulfill the terms, yet demanded full payment, threatening collections merely business days later
I do not consider the job done, yet was extorted for the full amounti will not be satisfied until the job is done as contracted or I am refunded the cost for the removal and disposal that was not done

I am rejecting this response because:The information given by the business is incredibly inaccurate as well as incorrect in several places- to an extent that is unbelievable (and dangerous) to us as follows:
Point one he makes is completely off the pointWe did not mention at any stage that the flat roof below our decking was part of the contract of changing the house roof- this was a different issue which we sought his advice on thinking that it was the source of the leak to the basement ceiling BEFORE WE EVER DISCOVERED THAT HE HAD NOT COMPLETED THE HOUSE ROOF as per the pictures submitted previously in the complaint
We have a string of emails proving that the discussion on the leak to the basement and advice on the decking mentioned above occurred well after the roof was installed by him in
The sunroom people as well as an independent certified home inspector have confirmed that the source of the leak is the remaining old roof
AT NO TIME WAS THERE EVER A DISCUSSION THAT THE OLD BROWN ROOFING EITHER ON THE BACK DOME OR THE CORNERS HE IS REFERRING TO DID NOT NEED TO BE REPLACEDThere is no way he could have pointed them out either since they are not visible from below- only if one goes near top of the roof and that is why we were unaware they hadn’t been replacedThere is also no way we would pay over $14,for an incomplete roof
I must emphasise again- we never had the issue of the leak prior to roof instalment and we now have clear written evidence tracing the leak from the incomplete part of the roof into the house to the basement ceiling
It is true that he suggested we install a sunroom to tackle the leak- which we did- and this was well before we discovered the issue of the roof hence we were all pointing fingers at the deck and the flat roof just below it which has turned out to not be the culprit
I can provide evidence for all of the above.
The untruths that have been told by Mader’s roofing is very concerning and dangerous
kind regards
** ***

I am rejecting this response because:
This is not an outright rejection, just some comments and questions for the Revdex.com
In the response made by the business, *** *** stated in part:
"it was agreed upon we will return when the weather is warmer to complete the repairThe outstanding issue is a section of ridge capping that has to be replaced on one of his lower roofs. We fully intend to do so once the weather is warm enough to form the cap shingles as straight and as flat as possible to please the customer. At present there is no leaking issue other than the appearance of the ridge capping only within that area. It is our intent to fully replace that area of ridge capping as discussed with the customer back in December."
As indicated in the attached string of emails between myself and ***'s, his email on Dec simply stated:
"I have been away and forwarded this to my head foreman who dealt with it I will need to have a conversation with him and that crew to see what the issue is One way or another It will be properly addressed to a satisfactory outcome."
A crew from ***'s showed up unannounced on Jan and pounded on the roof for a bit and left. There was no indication in *** ***'s email on Dec 17 or from his crew on Jan 18 that ***'s would return during warmer weather to replace the ridge capping on the hip rafterThis was not made clear to me
In my email to *** *** on Dec when a worker showed up unannounced in response to my original email to ***'s on Dec 17, I expressly stated "please do not ever show up at my residence again until we have agreed on a date and time that is mutually convenient to us both"
My question to the Revdex.com is, is it unreasonable for a contractor to respect this level of communication and coordination with a customer or not?
*** *** indicated in his response to the Revdex.com complaint that he intends return when the weather is warmer to complete the repair. Am I being unreasonable when I asked him to coordinate the date for this work or is a contractor allowed to simply show up unannounced whenever they want. I realize that a contractor has to coordinate work and resources, however, even the telephone/internet/TV companies coordinate when they will be on-site. This is also the case for every other contractor, i.e., plumbers, furnace maintenance, septic services, etc., who are at my residence for work. This coordination is also applicable to my schedule. Is this unreasonable? I would like to know what the Revdex.com response is and what are common contractor/customer practices.
I will concede that *** *** is sincere in his statement that he will return during warmer weather and complete the repair, however, I wonder if this would have occurred without my complaint to the Revdex.com. My time, just as I am sure that *** ***'s is, is extremely valuable. I absolutely have no time for this complaint process. I hired *** *** based on the Revdex.com rating and in completion with two other contractors. I expected to be 100% satisfied on completion of the work on Nov but find myself much more frustrated than satisfied
Sincerely,
*** *** * *** *** *** *** ** ** * *** *** ***

We have been in phone contact with the aforementioned customer in December 2017 and it was agreed upon we will return when the weather is warmer to complete the repair. The outstanding issue is a section of ridge capping that has to be replaced on one of his lower roofs.  We fully intend to do...

so once the weather is warm enough to form the cap shingles as straight and as flat as possible to please the customer.  At present there is no leaking issue other than the appearance of the ridge capping only within that area.  It is our intent to fully replace that area of ridge capping as discussed with the customer back in December.
Please note;  At the time the estimate of the roof was done, we were not aware the aforementioned customer was a senior. We are pleased to send the customer a cheque in the form of $250.00 plus HST to honor the Seniors Discount, which we were not aware of.  Also, we would like to mention, that if another roofing company is entertained to replace the ridge capping on one of the hip rafters, this will void Mader’s Roofing  Ltd.  warranty in its entirety.  We have no problem in going back and do not quite get why the customer is so irate with our firm.  We have no ill intent.
Yours truly,
[redacted]

Dear [redacted]
We did in fact put a new roof on [redacted]’s home at #[redacted] in Halifax, however, we did not replace the rear flat section of roofing on the rear of his home under a large eyebrow dormer section of roof as it was not included in his...

estimate   – and he was aware of that - for several reasons:
1.        The roofing on the rear flat section had been problematic for [redacted] for many years prior to us getting to his job and he was uncertain as to what he would like to do with the rear section of his home.
2.       This roof could not be done with conventional modified roofing due to the proximity of a large bank of glass windows and patio doors, which did not allow enough height to flash the new roof in and he was not willing to have the windows replaced to allow enough wall height for proper termination of conventional roofing. .. which we understand, due to the cost. We suggested he retain the services of a company called Dura-Deck to install a vinyl roofing patio deck skin which would have worked in that application as they can work without flashing detail in situations such as his.  To my understanding, he tried to obtain their services in some way, but was unsuccessful.
At that point, I suggested he contact a carpenter contractor by the name of [redacted], whom I gave his contact information, to remove his exisiting wooden patio decking and perimeter glass rail system.  This would expose the roofing area below and make the job  ready for whichever route he chose to go… he chose not to use Dura-Deck. At this point, it was suggested to him by myself and [redacted], the contractor, that if he was not willing to have his window and door system replaced, that to solve his problem would be to construct a sunroom over that area of flat roofing and extend beyond the rear section of the home and tie into his eyebrow dormer at the rear of the home.  He moved forward with that work with another contractor and they completed that work, although, they were unsuccessful in their marriage with the old building and the new building to get a good flash point seal. As I understand it, they had been back several times to make attempts to tie the two together, unsuccessfully.  At this point, the sun room contractors were looking for a scapegoat as to why their roof or new sun room would not seal and blamed the brown flashing as the culprit…..which is inaccurate.
[redacted] on several occasions prior to and after the roofing  work was completed by [redacted]’s Roofing Ltd. took me into his basement to show me the extensive dry wall ceiling damage and flooring damage.  This damage had occurred long prior to [redacted]’s Roofing Ltd. ever arriving on site… this is why he wanted a solution for his rear flat roof area. To my understanding, [redacted] has given him cost estimates to replace the drywall, insulation and flooring, trim and paint, but I am uncertain if this work has been done.  NONE OF THE WATER DAMAGE TO THE LOWER LEVEL OCCURRED DURING OUR TIME WORKING ON [redacted]’S ROOF OR WAS  AS A RESULT OF ANY ROOFING WORK BY [redacted]’S ROOFING LTD. … THIS WAS PREEXISTING AND WE BOTH WERE AWARE OF IT.  This is not a cost we will cover in any way, nor any of his interior damage he claims is a result of any work we did.  This is pure fallacy and fabrication to guilt us into covering or sharing the cost of that expense, which we do not intend to do. 
The brown roofing that [redacted] is noticing in the top eyebrow dormer corner of his roof is called modified bitumen which is part of the flashing detail for the lower base portion of his eyebrow dormer of his roof.  [redacted] was aware of the brown flashing pieces as I pointed them out to him and explained the eyebrow dormer would have to come apart in order to replace the flashing to another colour, where there was no need and did not present a problem. There were no leaks in [redacted]’s roof in any areas of the roofing we did prior to the sunroom company installing the sun room over the flat roof.
I am rather taken aback by [redacted] contacting you and complaining to the Revdex.com.  We shook hand as gentlemen and I spent quite a few hours helping [redacted] out in obtaining phone numbers, contact people and suggestions as to how he may want to resolve and renovate the rear of his home.  On any of those occasions, he was very thankful for those suggestions and showed gratitude.  We claim no responsibility to any interior damage [redacted] has, nor do we intend to pay for same in any way. The sun room people will have to continue in their attempts to properly flash the two entities together.  Given this letter and the statements [redacted] has made within we have no intention of helping [redacted] any further other than  honoring the 5 year warranty period given for the main roof area we reroofed only, which does not include any tie in areas related to the sun room renovation add on.
Yours truly,
[redacted], President