Michael J. Auto Sales Advantage

I would strongly recommend against visiting Michael J’s Auto Sales (also called Weinle Motorsports). In my experience, while they may seem very nice, they are either ignorant of the damages in the cars they sell (or even worse, actively try to cover up this damage at the expense of the customer). They also do not stand by their offer of a warranty (in my case, simply refusing to return the many calls I made). There is apparently a pattern of this behavior that many customers have experienced.

The Details:
I purchased a 2008 Saturn VUE from Michael J’s Auto Sales / Weinle Motorsports on Saturday, Nov 7, 2020. They had described the car as “running great”. At that time, the check engine light was on and during the test drive the car seemed to have some small trouble shifting properly. I was assured by the sales associate (who hooked up a scanner to the car) that it was just a sensor issue. Later in my interaction, I asked about a warranty for the car and was told “we are working on that and I will give you a call in a few days”. I did not sign any “as is” or “no warranty” paperwork. I was told not to decline the warranty since I was interested in it.

On Wednesday, Nov 11th, I went to a Certified Saturn Service center about the check engine light. They hooked up their sensor to the car and immediately told me that what they saw wasn’t good, but they would need to manually check a few things to determine the exact problem. 20-30 minutes later, they told me they had very bad news. The Timing Chain had been jumped. In addition there was an oil leak (which answered why there was oil on my driveway). There might also be a problem with the Pressure Control Solenoid (however, this might be due to the timing chain issue). They also showed me how the timing chain was so stretched and slack that it was actually rubbing the engine block itself and significantly wore it down (it should be tight and at least an inch or so away from the engine). They told me that they thought it was unethical for anyone to have sold or misrepresented this car as “running great”, and that it should have been immediately obvious to anyone with any mechanical knowledge that there were huge problems with this car. At this point, the manufacturer recommends an engine replacement (there is no “fix” for the damage that has been done). Finally, I will point out that the service center did not find any sensors that were bad or needed replacing.

I immediately contacted Michael J’s Auto Sales about the issue and was told that since I drove the car off the lot, that there was nothing they could do. I asked about the warranty that was offered and was told there was no such warranty and that I had signed papers to this effect. When I pointed out I didn’t sign such papers, and after the person on the phone checked, he immediately went silent and then, after a pause, said he would get back to me. Since then, I have made 13 calls to the dealership over the past 7 days and the person I supposedly need to talk to is never there and never calls me back.

I should also point out that, after I purchased the car, but before I went to the mechanic, I had contacted NVP Warranty (a company that provides aftermarket warranties for used cars). The previous car I purchased elsewhere had such a warranty that came with the car. They were originally very excited I gave them a call and eager to work with the dealer to get me set up with something. However, upon a quick investigation, they shared with me that they used to work with Michael J’s Auto Sales/Weinle Motorsports to provide these warranties, but “they no longer do business with them”. I did not get specifics, but I got the impression that there was an inordinately high volume of lemons that were coming out of this used car dealership.

The Summary:
Michael J’s Auto Sales/Weinle Motorsports, at best, seems to not check their cars that they sell for issues before they label them as “running great”. At worst, they knowingly and intentionally hide serious problems with the cars they sell and misrepresent them in order to scam their customers. Either way, this is not a dealership that you want to buy a car from. In addition, they don’t stand by their promise of a warranty and seem to actively dodge calls from customers that they have scammed. Finally, based on my conversation with NVP Warranty, it seems that this situation that is common for this dealership.
So, I guess if you are a mechanic yourself, and have the ability to look into the car (on their lot and before you buy the car) to confirm that the car is what you expect, then this might be an option for you. However, for most people, I would strongly advise against buying anything from this dealership.

I am happy to talk more about my experience if you need additional information.

Final Point:
Before posting this, I shared the above review with the owner (Mike Weinle) via an email from his website. This, finally got a response from the dealership (8 emails in fact). It was his opinion that the location I had brought the Saturn to was scamming me or that I damaged the car myself. He also told me that old timing chains are supposed to wear at the engine over time, that they jump all the time, and that when they do it isn’t a big deal. The last is factually incorrect (timing chains are supposed to be tight and should never drag on the engine, a timing chain generally should last the life of the car, and when they do jump it causes a significant problem for the car as the engine is no longer firing in sync and if not immediately fixed can lead to significant engine damage… a car that has a timing chain that has jumped is not considered derivable). As for the comment on “I was getting scammed” or “I did the damage myself”, I am not sure how either is possible given that I saw the damage with my own eyes and that I didn’t have the car long enough to cause the amount of damage that was present. He had no response to any of these points.

Further, he did confirm that he bought the car in an auction on Friday, Nov 6 and sold it to me the next day; and that his dealership did not have time to look at the car before they sold it (so, I assume it is not their policy to perform any checks on cars they buy before they sell them). He did not comment on what level of evaluation his dealership made to certify it as “running great” (but given that he confirmed that they did not look at it, I must assume he just took the word of the auction site he bought it from). He also asserted that the car was sold “as is” even though I was promised a warranty and wasn’t given paperwork (and certainly didn’t sign any) stating it was sold “as is”. He did not have an answer to why the “sensor issue” that his employee found with their scanner magically went away before it was serviced by the Certified Saturn Service Center. Finally, he did not comment on why NVP Warranty now refuses to do business with him (so, I assume it is as I suspected, and a high rate of lemons are sold from this dealership).

In summary, his email responses only seemed to reinforce to me that this dealership is either negligent/ignorant of the state of their cars they sell, or (worse) intentionally try to hide issues with their cars from their customers.

Revdex.com: I have reviewed the response made by the business in reference to complaint ID [redacted] , and have determined that this does not resolve my complaint For your reference, details of the offer I reviewed appear below Hello, I do not agree with the response of Mr [redacted] * I tried to call and he would not answer I also would ke you to investigate the reson he lied about me having the car for months without any work being done to the vehicle I would like for you to ask [redacted] some questions Where is the rear windshield wiper you told me you ordered when I first bought the car Next, when he bought the car at auction, did he really have another engine put in it? That's what he told me! Next, how come he told me the engine oil was changed, and after I believed what he told me, I found out at the near end of February that the oil was never changed He made me go buy a new oil filter and the quarts of oil & a new oil drain plug That proves they never changed the oil, because they could not even get the oil to drain out The mechanic even said" this iil filter looks like it hhasn't been changed in over a year The oil filter was so dirty The filter was supposed to be white, but the filter look completely blackThe filter also had large dents in the bottom of it My engine light gas been on since day one and Mr [redacted] *said because of the replacement engine he put in the codes needed to be reset We know tgats a lie because my engine has blown Finally, why dud he have to be so nasty and call me all of those names? Regards, [redacted] ***

First of all, my wife was typing what I told her to typeSo he doesn't need to be attacking herHis response is completely false, If he was sick, why did he get out the the car with a 12pk of beer? And no one ever said he was highAs for the manifold I originally wanted, he is the one that told me it would be at least weeks before that company was casting themHow would I know that if he didn't say itHe was the one that was going to sell it to meHe then said he could build me oneWhich was a lie since someone else built it for himAs for who is working on the motor that would be meI've been building racecar motor's for over years and have them all over the stateI haven't had any complaints filed against meI have worked on Pro Stock cars all the way to street rodsI have built them from the ground upThe guy who took it down to him was the one who woke him upHe called me and Mike was yelling at himI could here himI called Mike and he hung up on meI called the car lot and someone else answeredI told him to put Mike on the phoneHe said he was with a another customerI told him he might want to talk to the giuy he just screwed and that guy said I wasn't the first oneMike called me back and immediately started yelling at me on the phoneThe guy who fixed the intake even told my guy that Mike didn't tell him what it was actually going onThat is why it was built wrongWhen I first got it from him it never fitI had a friend of mine who builds motors for pro mod cars come look at itEven he said it wasn't rightI have several people who can verify it was built wrong from the beginingOf course if he would actually answer the phone when he's called he would have known it was wrong from the get goI have copies of most of the text messages we exchanged and pictures of the mountains of beer bottles all over the placeH knows he screwed up but wants to blame everybody elseHe probably believes that the government put me up to this

Business did not respond to customer's rejection

First, the lady that is writing this complaint has never been involved with this situation and doesn't know what she is talking aboutShe is not the one who bought the product and I have never talked with herShe is getting told by someone else about this stuff and I haven't done business with
herEverything she is writing is heresaySecond, I am not the manufacturer of the racing manifold they wantedI have no idea how long the manufacturer will take to supply the product or when it will be availableThe guy that they have working on their motor should not be working on the motorHe is not a qualified race engine builder and has no idea what he was doing in trying to make a manifold fit an engineSecond, when the customer sent his friend down, who is not qualified to work on an engine, I was sick and sleeping in my truckWhen I looked at the manifold and discovered what was wrong, I found out that the customer had it machined wrongThey machined it wrong and messed it all upI then re-machined it and made the manifold able to useWhat I want as a settlement is an apology from these two people who said I was high, drunk and didn't know what I was doingI was sick, sleeping in my car, and they were yelling at me calling me namesThey actually...I showed them what they had done wrong, I fixed the problem and it all comes down to the guy who worked on the engine not knowing what he was doingHe did not have a clueI want the apology for being called all those namesThey want an apology because after calling me names and yelling at me, I went off on themNo matter how sick I am, I go to workI'm a professional businessman, I build engines and I told them what they did wrong

The problem here is that without insurance customer need extra down, I being the owner also tried to explained this to the customer and he does not understandAll of most banks will the car dealer - more if there's gap insurance on the loan, this guantees the bank does not get
screwed out of their moneyI will apologize and remove insurance, if customer sill want load must give additional and re-sign all paper work

** *** *** * *** *** *** Thank you for taking the time to submit your concerns to usWe acknowledge your issues, I would like to take the time to address each individuallyFirst I apologize your are having these issues, when running a business there is protocol that is
followed either imposed by the state and licensing or here on our level within our businessWhen you purchased the truck it was located in our storage lot (not ready for sale) you insisted on seeing it because that is what you were looking forWe explained that the truck hadn't went through our inspection process and hadn't even been cleaned yetWe proceeded with the deal per your requestWe are a used car dealership, we sell cars with no warranty expressed or impliedEach vehicle comes with a buyers guide which is a document the state of Ohio makes us advertise and makes the customer sign , Which you signed We take 15-days to process a title, that's why we give day tagsWe have a policy here at our company that NO-ONE except the owner touch or handle the titlesYou were never given a payment extension, we record all of that via a form that a customer would get a copy of and the owner signs off onYour first payment was due on 9-7-of $We offer a day grace period on all loans which would constitute you vehicle being place for repossession on 9-14-However as a convenience to you we never did place an orderYou were here Thursday afternoon, Talking with the owner told him you were going to the casino over the river and you would be here the next at 4pm to meet the owner to make a payment and to handle the title paperworkThere were witnesses in this officeYou showed up here on 9-15-Angry upsetDemanding your titleI Eric explained to you that I could not give you the title ( per our policy)I told you I would call the owner and have him come in early(he comes in at 1pm) I asked if you had brought the payment that you promised days before physically here in my presence you said you didn't have itI said yes I guess we need to call the ownerYou said so wait your not giving me the title you called in your girlfriend to the office for to me to repeat again for the 6th time that no I would not be giving you the title because I was not allowedYou decided to call the police, Apparently you did not process anything I was sayingYou asked for a refund of $5,I SAID yet AGAIN you need to speak with the ownerI Eric NEVER said I or anyone would give you a refundI am not authorized to make decisions of that significanceYou still have the opportunity to speak with the ownerYou still have the opportunity to make a payment and keep your vehicle

Michael's policy for refunds is prominently posted inside the building and it clearly states there are no refunds for deposits. Ms. [redacted] came to the place of business for the purpose of purchasing a used vehicle. As part of the finalization process for the purchase Ms. [redacted] made a deposit and...

stated she would return with the remainder of the total cost. We held the vehicle; she returned but did not have sufficient funds to pay the balance. We advised her if found a vehicle on the lot that she could afford within one week, then she could apply the deposit to that vehicle. However that offer was only good for one week. Ms. [redacted] never returned to the  dealership and therefore is not entitled to the refund she is claiming.

Hello, my name is [redacted].  I just bought the xar ib December, and the oil light came on yesterday, Sunday 04-12-15.  Then the xar shut off, and I immediately pulled over.  My full coverage insurance provided me a tow to a shop near by.  Today I called the lot where it...

was towed, and now I am beibg towed the engibe has blown.  Ugh!!!!!!!!  Thank you for your quick response.  I don't know what to do next, but get my vehicle fixed.  I just don't have that type of money.  The car lot I bought the vehicle from [redacted]'S AUTO SHOULD PAY FOR IT, since I just bought the car in December and he said he bought the 2005 Dodge Magnum from a auction with no engine.  He said before I bought the car he just put another engine in it.  He ether, did not put another engine in it, and if he did he did not change the oil like he said he did when I asked him, "DID YOU CHANGE THE OIL? ", HE SAID "YES!"  I found out later he did not because he couldn't even get the drain plug off the oil pan.  He made me pay for everything two months after I bought the car.  Then he finally changed the oil, and now my engine is blown.Thank you, [redacted]PLEASE FILL FREE TO CALL ME AT ###-###-####

Business did not respond to customer's rejection.

Revdex.com:
I have reviewed the response made by the business in reference to complaint ID [redacted], and have determined that this does not resolve my complaint.  For your reference, details of the offer I reviewed appear below.  Hello, I do not agree with the response of Mr. [redacted].  I tried to call and he would not answer.  I also would ke you to investigate the reson he lied about me having the car for 5 months without any work being done to the vehicle.  I would like for you to ask [redacted] some questions.  Where is the rear windshield wiper you told me you ordered when I first bought the car.  Next, when he bought the car at auction, did he really have another engine put in it? That's  what he told me!  Next, how come he told me the engine oil was changed, and after I believed what he told me, I found out at the near end of February that the oil was never changed.  He made me go buy a new oil filter and the 6 quarts of oil & a new oil drain plug.  That proves they never changed the oil, because they could not even get the oil to drain out.  The mechanic even said" this iil filter looks like it hhasn't been changed in over a year.  The oil filter was so dirty.  The filter was supposed to be white, but the filter look completely black. The filter also had large dents in the bottom of it.  My engine light gas been on since day one and Mr. [redacted]. said because of the replacement engine he put in the codes needed to be reset.  We know tgats a lie because my engine has blown.  Finally, why dud he have to be so nasty and call me all of those names?  
Regards,
[redacted]

Revdex.com:
I have reviewed the response made by the business in reference to complaint ID [redacted], and have determined that this does not resolve my complaint.  For your reference, details of the offer I reviewed appear below.
[To assist us in bringing this matter to a close, we would like to know your view on the matter.] I viewed online this 2008 Ford F350 original miles  124,394. I called Michael [redacted] and was this is a very good running truck and was invited to come see it.which I did, never at any point was I advised this truck was not ready for sale, or this truck had not been put through their inspection process. I had a few mechanical issued, which I advised Michael but did not complain. My main issue in the beginning was getting the title available to me to transfer my ARP tags and get the truck on the road, running for my transportation business. which I expressed several times to Michael and Dana. on the 4th attempt to gain title I was given a paper in letter form from the Ohio clerks office and was told to take this letter to KY title, when I noticed on this document it was noted Odometer discrepancy no mileage listed.    per documents.  I don't want to pay this amount of money for a vehicle with no proof of mileage. so honesty here has not been in my best interest. they cant up the title but they issued another temporary tag on 9/11/2017 for 45 days. when I comforted Eric about the Mileage he did offer to return my money in return for the truck. Best Regards,
[redacted]

Customer bought car from [redacted]'s Auto Sales AS-IS NO WARRANTY Mechanic Special at a reduced price. Customer husband was a mechanic and would fix all issues, she also bought a warranty from ASC Warranty Company. This girl stop by she is all upset because her husband died and she now has no one to...

work on her car. I am sorry her husband died but this is not my fault. I sold car AS-IS NO WARRANTY Mechanic Special. Her husband was going to fix all problems.[redacted]

Revdex.com:
I have reviewed the response made by the business in reference to complaint ID [redacted], and have determined that this does not resolve my complaint.  For your reference, details of the offer I reviewed appear below.It was not explained to me before I handed over the downpayment, that gap insurance was not an option, nor that in order to advoid the gap that I would have to pay an addition $200. Had I known before hand I would have declined the vehicle because I dont have the extra available. I tried explaining this to the employees, but they didn't care and refused to return my money even though they are in possession of the vehicle. After consistently calling I've only spoken to the owner once and kept talking over me, didn't listen to anything I had to say, and hung up on me as I was talking. I no longer wish to deal with the dealership, I no longer want the car they never fixed, I just want my $500 downpayment back.
Regards,
[redacted]

5/5/15 Customer bought vehicle over 5 months ago. Sorry that he had an engine problem but it was 5 months ago. Not much I can do over something that is over 5 months old. Have no control over what may or may not happen. Customer was offered a warranty. He declined. After 5 months, not much we can do. Basically got along well with customer. After review, obvious that he has lost confidence in shot. Never brought vehicle back for them to look at. Again, nothing they can do after 5 months. We still are willing to work on customer's car for 1/2 price and willing to look at it for nothing.

We have resolved this complaint by replacing the customer's vehicle.

First of all, my wife was typing what I told her to type. So he doesn't need to be attacking her. His response is completely false, If he was sick, why did he get out the the car with a 12pk of beer? And no one ever  said he was high. As for the manifold I originally wanted, he is the one that told me it would be at least 8 weeks before that company was casting them. How would I know that if he didn't say it. He was the one that was going to sell it to me. He then said he could build me one. Which was a lie since someone else built it for him. As for who is working on the motor that would be me. I've been building racecar motor's for over 40 years and have them all over the state. I haven't had any complaints filed against me. I have worked on Pro Stock cars all the way to street rods. I have built them from the ground up. The guy who took it down to him was the one who woke him up. He called me and Mike was yelling at him. I could here him. I called Mike and he hung up on me. I called the car lot and someone else answered. I told him to put Mike on the phone. He said he was with a another customer. I told him he might want to talk to the giuy he just screwed and that guy said I wasn't the first one. Mike called me back and immediately started yelling at me on the phone. The guy who fixed the intake even told my guy that Mike didn't tell him what it was actually going on. That is why it was built wrong. When I first got it from him it never fit. I had a friend of mine who builds motors for pro  mod cars come look at it. Even he said it wasn't right. I have several people who can verify it was built wrong from the begining. Of course if he would actually answer the phone when he's called he would have known it was wrong from the get go. I have copies of most of the text messages we exchanged and pictures of the mountains of beer bottles all over the place. H knows he screwed up but wants to blame everybody else. He probably believes that the government put me up to this.

Revdex.com:
I have reviewed the response made by the business in reference to complaint ID [redacted], and have determined that this does not resolve my complaint.  For your reference, details of the offer I reviewed appear below.
[To assist us in bringing this matter to a close, we would like to know your view on the matter.]
Regards,
[redacted]