Morelli Hoskins Ford, Inc.

So to be clear, Hoskins believes that had they stripped the screw, they would have known of and corrected the issue before my car left their service center. They also state that the stripped screw could not have made it 10k miles. Also they take the position that the loose plug would have come out. However, and I do appreciate their confidence, they are not questioning my integrityMy question is, does a screw ever work itself out over time, or does it just become loose immediately. I have stripped a screw myself and had thought it was tight and securely in place, only to return at a later date and discover my mistake. Also, correct me if I am wrong, but the oil pan is not an area of the engine under high pressure. The oil pressure starts after the pumpthis means that an oil plug would have to work itself out and wouldn't just burst out if poorly replaced. Also consider that there is a spectrum of stripped screws from degraded threading to completely removedOne last thingin the army one of my team responsibilities was tightening the half shafts on our gun trucks. The half shafts of older trucks had come loose and left them disabled on missions. The screws worked themselves loose over a long period of time, not instantly. Its a different part, but my point is that Hoskins tech could have easily stripped the screw unintentionally and also thought it was tight, then 10k miles later it had plenty of opportunity to loosen and have the Fort Collins tech find it looseAlso, thanks for supporting the troops, the police, and the scoutsI hope you will consider the facts and logic I am presenting.
Complaint: ***
I am rejecting this response because:
Regards,
*** ***

Dear *** ***,
Thank you for notifying us of *** ***'s responsePlease refer to our past responses in regards to this matterWe will not be offering assistance for reimbursement. *** Hoskins Ford is a reputable dealer, if we felt we were liable with the information provided we most certainly would of resolved this matter when *** *** spoke with our service manager, Kevin T***I hope with the information provided from both parties, the Revdex.com will be able to resolve the matter at handPlease do not hesitate to contact me if you should have any further questionsSincerely,
Lorri T***

Thank you for notifying our dealership of *** ***'s concern*** *** had his Ford *** in for an oil and filter change on August 8, The mileage was 52,We did not see the vehicle in In the customer had visits with us, 06/15/miles 36,and 12/14/40,
miles.*** *** called our service manager on January 13, and stated he had moved to Colorado and was getting his oil changed and the dealer informed him his drain plug was stripped out and could not be replacedThe dealer informed him he would have to replace the oil panThe customer told our service manager if we did not pay for the oil pan replacement he would use social media to give us a " bad reputation"*** *** stated in his messages that the Colorado dealership's technician told him the plug was only hand tightened and it's a wonder it didn't fall out in his journeys from Pennsylvania to ColoradoThere are so many arguments that could take place about a stripped or cross threaded oil panIf it was loose there would have been oil in his driveway and he would of noticed a burning smell from the oil hitting the engine soon after his oil change with us in August 2015, or at some point during the 10,miles since his last oil changeAlso, with the technician stating it's a wonder it did not fall out, it normally would have leaked oil and would not of made it 10,miles and with the plug that loose , the oil would of drained out and the motor would have seizedI would like to add that judging by *** ***'s service history, according to ***, he has kept his oil changed on a 5,to 6,mile intervalThere is over 10,miles on his vehicle since his last change with *** Hoskins Ford in No accusation, just seems out of his trendWas there a change in between? Did the technician in Colorado cause this?
It is unfortunate that *** *** discovered this in Colorado, we would have liked to have the opportunity to check out his claimWe stand behind our work and have an excellent reputation of taking care of our customersAt this time, we are not going to pay his requested reimbursementThank you for your time, please feel free to contact us with any other questionsSincerely,
Lorri T***
Service Director

Review: My vehicle experienced problems with the AC system in 2012. It required three visits to the service department of Hoskins Ford before it was "fixed". Unfortunately, the same problem resurfaced in Apr of 2013, as the issue had not been properly addressed and rectified on the previous three visits. Since reporting the problem to Hoskins in Apr, I have received no satisfaction other than their claiming that "it is a common issue with..." my vehicle model, though other Ford dealerships (and Ford, itself) does not share that opinion. Further, I was advised that it would cost $2,000-$3,000 to repair. I have since had three conversations with Ford Customer Care, the last of which was to express my dissatisfaction with the failure on the part of Hoskins to reply to my recent communications, dating back to the beginning of May. This brings me now to this point where I am taking my complaint to the next level.Desired Settlement: I am requesting reimbursement for the incorrect diagnosis and insufficient repairs of 2012, as well as for any repairs done now to rectify the problem correctly. As I personally suffer severe allergies and my spouse is under doctor's care for asthma, this issue is time sensitive due to present environmental conditions and their impact on us.

Business

Response:

Thank you for notifiying me of **. [redacted]'s concern. **. [redacted] had his 2010 Marineer in 5/29/12 63,574 miles- for an A/C concern. We performed a No Charge diagnostics(69.95 charge we took care of for him) and A/C was working at the time and the vent temperature was reading 35 degrees.

**. [redacted] came in on June 20, 2012, vehicle had 64,543 miles on it. We again did a no charge diag for his A/C concern ( 69.95 we took care of for him). We performed an Evacuation and recharge of the system and charged the customer $150.20.

**. [redacted] currently has approx. 93,000 miles on the vehicle. He inquired that he is having an A/C concern but has not had the vehicle properly diagnosed. Our Service Manager told him that by his description it could be a broken particulate filter inside the receiver dryer. This is not a recall or safety issue Ford would have a recall on. As far as misdiagnosing, we only recharged his air conditioning service and it lasted approx. 27,500 miles and 11 months. Ford Motor Company , along with most dealers carry a 12 month/12,000 mile warranty on parts and labor which ever occurs first.

If **. [redacted] would like to bring the vehicle in for diagnostic's the fee would be $69.95. We have taken care of two diagnostic fee's for **. [redacted]. **. [redacted] is out of his 3 year/36,000 mile warranty and I do not have information that he opted to purchase an extended warranty when he purchased the vehicle, that may have covered this repair.

Again, thank you for notifying our dealership of **. [redacted]'s concern.

Sincerely,

Service Director

Consumer

Response:

[To assist us in bringing this matter to a close, you must give us a reason why you are rejecting the response. If no reason is received your complaint will be closed Administratively Resolved]

Review: [redacted]

I am rejecting this response because:

**. [redacted]'s response is partially correct......While a N/C diagnostics may have been performed, I was also told that the system was recharged with refrigerant that day. The system was then blowing colder air. On the second visit, not noted by **. [redacted] and the exact date of which (within days of the first visit) I am unable to recall, the system was once again blowing warm air. I left the car for the entire day while I took the train into Phila. During the day, I received a call from the Hoskins Svc. Mgr. stating that they "were unable to replicate the condition", despite taking the car out for a rigorous road test. Upon my return, the system again seemed to be blowing cold air. Finally, and as noted by **. [redacted], I returned to Hoskins Ford on Jun 20 for the same issue, and I waited while the car was being looked at. When the tech came out to the service desk, I was approached by the Svc. Mgr. who asked...."Who else worked on this car?". My reply was that no one, except the Hoskins tech, had worked on it. He went on to say that the system had been "overcharged" and caused a "lockup" of the compressor, etc, thus causing the warm air. It would require evacuating the system and a recharge. This is clearly noted on the repair order. It is this point at and for which I am suggesting this to be a dealer issue, as the initial recharging on May 29 may have been unnecessary, pointing to improper diagnostics of the issue. Further, it may have been further compounded on the second visit, yet another instance of improper diagnostics.

**. [redacted] goes on to say that they "...only recharged his air conditioning service and it lasted approx. 27,500 miles and 11 months". It goes without saying that the AC was not in use for the ensuing "11 months" following the recharge. And as far as the vehicle not being properly diagnosed after this most recent occurence, I will agree, but this begs the question as to why the Svc. Mgr. was so quick to say that "This problem is common with Escape and Mariner" where the particulate filter breaks down and contaminates the system, resulting in a "...$2000-$3000" repair job. Why wouldn't the possibility of a refrigerant leak be laid out as a possibility? And add to that the fact that a leak, slow or otherwise, in the system could, in fact, be caused by overcharging the system. Or if it were, indeed, a contamination issue, could not the contamination have occured during or as a result of the evacuation and recharge procedure? Coming full circle, I can say with 100% certainty that the root cause of the problem has been a refrigerant leak.....again strongly suggesting improper diagnostics and remedial action by the dealership. It is for this reason that I continue to hold Hoskins Ford responsible.

It is a sad commentary that a response is forthcoming only as a result of a formal complaint filed with a responsible body. This may not have gotten to this point had I been given the courtesy of a reply by the principles involved in the first place. I am grateful for **. [redacted]'s response, though I find it only partially accurate and devoid of some pertinent facts. I suspect more will now come from the dealership as my complaint stands unresolved and not satisfied. Thank you.

Regards,

Business

Response:

[redacted],

Thank you again for notifying our dealership of **. [redacted]'s air conditioning concern. **. [redacted] stated we performed a evac and recharged his system the first time on May 29, 2012. If he reads the invoice, it clearly states we could not duplicate the concern, and we did not perform this service. **. [redacted] states he does not recall the time he left the vehicle and we performed a rigorous test drive, I do not have documentation of this day, but **. [redacted] states we could not duplicate the concern, and if there was no paper work generated, there was no charge to the customer nor were any parts or labor charged.

**. [redacted] left our dealership in June 2012 with his air conditioning working properly and we did not see him until the end of April 2013. We had an unusally hot summer and also Fall of 2012. In the winter a vehicles' defroster cycles the air conditioning compressor. **. [redacted] did not notify our dealership over the winter that his defroster was not working.

Once again, I would like to stress we did not perform any repairs to **. [redacted]'s vehicle. The only service we performed was an evacuation and recharge of his air conditioning and we did not hear from **. [redacted] for 11 months/27,500 miles.

No assistance will be offered at this time.

Sincerely,

Service Director

Consumer

Response:

[To assist us in bringing this matter to a close, you must give us a reason why you are rejecting the response. If no reason is received your complaint will be closed Administratively Resolved]

Review: [redacted]

I am rejecting this response because:

**. [redacted]:

Thank you for your continued patience and diligence in this matter......it is greatly appreciated as will be your sound judgement and ruling.

I am again grateful that Hoskins Ford has chosen to respond at this time, as opposed to their silence and failure to address the issue with me directly, prior to my referring the matter to Revdex.com. And while I also thank **. [redacted] for her latest statements, I must qualify by saying that her assertions are once again not completely accurate.

- "**. [redacted] stated we performed a evac and recharged his system the first time on May 29, 2012." I invite you to revisit my exact comment where I stated that "While a N/C diagnostics may have been performed, I was told (by Svc. Writer/[redacted]) that the system was recharged with refrigerant that day." As you'll agree, there was no mention on my part of the evac procedure, as no mention of same was made to me.

- "If he reads the invoice, it clearly states we could not duplicate the concern, and we did not perform this service." There are a couple of inconsistencies here.....there was no invoice, at least none given to me, as there was no fee charged. Further, this was not the day on which the issue could not be replicated. **. [redacted] is beginning to unravel the time line of events. But if, in fact, that were the case, why was refrigerant added to the system?

- "**. [redacted] states he does not recall the time he left the vehicle and we performed a rigorous test drive, I do not have documentation of this day, but **. [redacted] states we could not duplicate the concern, and if there was no paper work generated, there was no charge to the customer nor were any parts or labor charged." Again, there was no paperwork given to me, stating the inability to replicate the problem. Yet, I received a call from [redacted] to that effect while I was in Phila for a meeting. I am also intrigued by **. [redacted]'s statement that there were no charges, etc......I don't believe I suggested there were any charges, so this is superfluous. And while Hoskins does not have "documentation of this day", I can say with all certainty that it was May 30, 2012.

- "We had an unusually hot summer and also Fall of 2012." I will concede the discomfort level last summer (especially without AC in the car!), but by all studies, 2012 pales in comparison to 2011, and to 1951, as well. And, as anyone will recall, Oct 2012 was unusually cool, in fact, cooler than Feb 2013. As far as my defroster not working, we could also cite the Winter of 2012-13 as one of the milder on record, and the number of instances where the defroster was called for was minimal, and its work load was minor.

- "Th only service we performed was an evacuation and recharge of his air conditioning and we did not hear from **. [redacted] for 11 months/27,500 miles." Again, not totally accurate, as there was the addition of refrigerant as indicated above, as well as the evac and recharge as acknowledged. And as I had no occasion to use the AC until a warm day this April, 2013, a reason to return to Hoskins for

that issue simply didn't exist.

In closing, **. [redacted], I would like to say that I am also grateful that **. [redacted] has not refuted my earlier assertions of incorrect and improper diagnostics. Had the Hoskins tech(s) been more attentive and diligent, rather than taking the easy way out and adding more refrigerant, they would have easily noticed a leak in the system. Further, had they properly performed the evac and recharge procedure, they would have concluded it by utilizing a UV or fluorescent dye to check for leaks. It can only be concluded that this was not done, or we would not be at this juncture. Again, improper and poor workmanship.

As my latest comments are incontrovertible, I would now hope that the management/ownership of Hoskins Ford would wish to avoid further notoriety and "bad press" by accepting the facts and acknowledging the incompetencies, as well as agreeing to reimburse me for monies spent to diagnose, address and correct the problem. I am willing to overlook the cost of my time expended to deal with this, and I would further agree to consider the matter closed and to go no further than this level of arbitration or medium.

Thank you for your time.

Sincerely,

Regards,

Business

Response:

**. [redacted],

Thank you for making our dealership aware of **. [redacted]'s on going concerns.

Reply to **. [redacted]s rebuttle:

1. The paper work states no evac or recharge was performed. [redacted] would not have told **. [redacted] it was if the work was not documented.

2 .I am not unraveling the timeline. I have attached a copy of the receipt 05/29/12, and **. [redacted] was waiting that day and was given a copy of his no charge receipt.

3. **. [redacted] states he is certain he was here 05/30/2012. Aagain, we have record of 05/29/12.

4. **. [redacted] states he agrees with the discomfort level last summer. His last visit was June 20, 2012 and we did not see him throughout the entire uncomfortable, unusally hot summer. I am sure he would have returned the vehicle if he was experiencing discomfort. I also checked the National Weather Broadcast on the internet and if you review the average PA temperatures, I am confident **. [redacted] would have had to use his air conditioner during the months of June to September 2012 and the defrosters at some point from November 2012 to March 2013. I am not sure what the weather in 1951 ( 62 years ago) has to do with this concern.

5. Again, **. [redacted]'s last visit to our dealership was June 20, 2012, he states he agrees to the hot summer " especially without A/C", then why didn't **. [redacted] bring the vehicle back during the unbearable hot summer? Again, iF we would have replaced any parts, and we did not ( the Ford warranty is 12 months/12,000 miles), **. [redacted] would have been out of warranty when he notified us of his concern in April 2013. We have assisted **. [redacted] numorous times without charging him.

In closing, I'm confident **. [redacted] would have been back sooner than 11 months/27,000 miles if he had a concern. **. [redacted] show's no extended warranty on the vehicle. If he would have purchased some type of extended warranty, maybe the concern he is having now may have been covered. His manufacturer warranty covered the vehicle for 3 years from 09/21/2009 (his warranty start date with Ford Motor Company) or 36,000 miles , whichever occurs first. **. [redacted] went over the mileage first. The vehicle was in 08/22/2011 and the mileage was 54,321, which means he was out of warranty at that point also.

**. [redacted] was speaking with our service manager [redacted] LaBoy , who informed him he has no warranty and this is not a recall of any kind. **. [redacted] was addressed promply by **. [redacted] and accuratlely. I apologize the facts were not to **. [redacted]'s liking. And, as **. [redacted] mentioned, as soon as I was notified of his concern with the Revdex.com, I have addressed his concern immediatley. No further financial assistance will be offered.

Thank you once again, **. [redacted]. I will be on vacation starting 6/8/13 to 6/17/13. If this case has not been resolved, I will respond when I return if necessary.

Sincerely,

Service Director

Business

Response:

I have faxed over all documentation on 6/17/13 to 202-393-1198 to your attn: **. [redacted]. My fax transmittal shows it was received on your end at 10:38AM.

Please confirm you have received .It was 7 pages and had the case # on cover sheet with your name.

Thank you!

Business

Response:

Thank you for letting me know of the correct fax number. I will be faxing the information today at 4:54PM. Documents include signatures and warranty on his vehicle.

Thank you, have a great weekend.

Consumer

Response:

[To assist us in bringing this matter to a close, you must give us a reason why you are rejecting the response. If no reason is received your complaint will be closed Administratively Resolved]

Review: [redacted]

I am rejecting this response because:

I have previously requested that Hoskins forward to me the invoices/work orders reportedly in their files to which they refer in the chain of correspondence for this complaint. I have not received same to date. I would again request that this be scanned or emailed as attachments to my email as indicated.

Thank you.

Regards,