Motor Sportsland, Inc.

Mr***, We would love to discuss your trailer with you. As you know, we have made several attempts to contact you in order to discuss this matter. Your trailer has not had any repair work completed at all to this point. You brought your trailer in for an estimate in the middle
of November 2017. After gathering all of the required information and pricing, we attempted to contact you so that we could discuss whether or not you would like us to repair your trailer. We have tried to contact you both by phone and even have sent several letters regarding your trailer with no response. Until your message on April 13, at 6:51AM, we have assumed that you have either moved or died or in some way disappeared. As far as we were concerned your trailer has been abandoned and as a result we started the process to file for a mechanics lien so that we could be made whole for the storage that is due on the unitAt the time that you dropped off your vehicle, you signed a repair order which authorized a storage fee of $per day. We have limited space on our property and we are not able to offer free storage to everyone who comes in with their trailer for an estimate. You have a bill now due for $4,up until April 16th We have been in contact with your legal counsel and hope to resolve the matter soon through your attorney as you have been unresponsive thus far

Complaint: ***
I am rejecting this response because:This is my response to MrB***s message:
The reason we did not take the motor home on any long trips
is due to the fact that I did not feel comfortable going on a trip to Montana,
that was our first planed trip, or anywhere else due to the multitude of the
problems we have experienced with this motor home, therefore it was my decision
not to go until we could go on a short trip without experiencing any problems
I was nervous about getting out in no man’s land and something going wrong with
the motor home and unable to get it repaired
As far as the trade in value, that was an attempt to get out
of this motor home into maybe something more reliableIn regards to the profit
the company made is not an issue; due to your salesmen was the one who made the
deal not meWhat I am requesting is trying to recover a reasonable amount and
separate my relationship with Motor SportslandThe amount of the $66,is
a reasonable requestMy lost will be close to $10,Looking on the
internet this motor home will sell anywhere between $69,and $79,(Thor
Motor home Four Winds is identical to the Chateau 28F)For whatever reason,
trying to find information on a Chateau 28F is quite difficultYes, MrB*** is correct about the purchase
date, but the delivery date was in November due to repairs needed to be done
prior to taking delivery of the unit
At this point I am not asking for trade value, I am
requesting a check for the $66,and Motor Sportsland take possession of the
motor homeAs far as sitting down with sales manager Curtis, he said that we
have had the unit for years in reality we only had it for 1yearThe trade
value on the motor home he quoted on was not the same motor home that we
purchased
This is still my stance on the complaint
Sincerely,
*** ***

Thank you for this opportunity to address this customer complaintHere are a the facts as I understand them relative to the trailer purchased by *** ***.Date of purchase: 8/22/14Awning arm breaks on an unknown date, under unknown circumstances.Customer called us on 7/27/and asks how
backed up we are and is told we are scheduled until 8/14/He thanks the service adviser for the information and hangs-up.Customer calls us on 7/28/asks when would be a good time to bring his trailer in for warranty workThe service advisor tells him we can schedule him for 8/18/He asks if there is anyplace else that service his keystone and is give some information about using the Keystone RV dealer locator on their website.Customer calls on 8/17/and states that he has an appointment on the 27th and asks if he can drop his trailer off todayHe is told we don't have room to hold the trailer until his appointmentHe is told he can drop it off the day before.Customer drops off trailer on 26th of August.Between 8/29/and 9/1/Keystone denies any warranty work because the vehicle is out of warrantyWe inform the customer of such.Between 9/1/and 9/9/we attempt again to get the manufacturer to approve a warranty repair for the customerOn the later date the manufacture again denies the claim.9/10/We inform the customer that if he would like to have the awning arm(s) replaced it will be between and to have the work doneCustomers declines to have the work done.9/12/Customer files this complaint.While we regret that the manufacturer will not cover the repairs requested, we neither provide the customer with a warranty on the trailer nor dictate the terms of the warrantyWe simply can't MAKE the manufacturer do what they choose not to do.As a gesture of good our Service Manager has contacted Mr*** and offered to replace what we believe is the broken piece of the awning with a part off of a used awning arm that we haveMr *** is to let us know when he can bring the trailer by to have the repair performedBarring any unforeseen circumstances, we believe that this should resolve his problem with the awning.Sincerely,Jason B***

To whom it may concern,
Thank you for letting us know of Mr***’s concernsAs
stated by Mr*** there have been a number of issues with his motor homeIn
talking with our service manager, he indicated that while there have been problems,
he didn’t recall any that would have
incapacitated the vehicleWe are unaware
of any problems that would prevent the vehicle from being used on longer trips
It seems that Mr***’s complaint more surrounds the
value of the trade he was given than it does the problems, so let me try to
frame that concernThe vehicle was purchased on Sept20, not in November
as was statedThe purchase price was $***In addition taxes, licensing
and fees totaled $*** and Mr*** purchased a service contract for
$***, bringing the total to $75,652.71.
After all was said and done we made less than 5% in profitA pretty
poor deal for us and a pretty good one for him
Most, if not all, of the profit we made has been spent
administering the manufacturer’s warranty on this vehicleThere is nothing
left to give
What is being asked is that we give a trade value in excess
of the original cost of the vehicle and in considerable excess of its current
real valueThat simply is not reasonableI’ve sat with our sales manager to
discuss the trade value and there simply isn’t any justification to offer more
than what has already been offeredSales Tax, Licensing and fees that were
paid are not recoverableMost service contracts can be cancelled on a pro-rata
basis, however if he cancels his contract there will be no coverage on the
vehicle in the event there are further problemsJust the same if he desires to
do so he can simply send us a written request asking that the contract be
canceled.If you have any question please let me know.ThanksJason B***

Complaint: [redacted]
I am rejecting this response because: I was sold a defective motorhome.  Motor Sportsland's representative said it is not defective, that it only has problems like any other.  That is not true.  Nor is it true that they inspected the unit before selling it.  If they had, they would've found ALL the defective parts.  It can't possibly be in their best interest to sell products that require hours upon hours of repair from their service department.  Had they know of all the issues with it they would certainly have sent it back to Winnebago.  I have owned 3 motorhomes before this one and none of them had anything wrong with them at the time of purchase.  That said, I know I won't win this injustice, not because I don't have a valid case, but because they have experience on their side of deceiving consumers and getting away with it.
Sincerely,
[redacted]

Currently all of the issues that Ms. [redacted] has stated have been or are being addressed.  As stated by Ms. [redacted] we are very willing to make all the repairs required.  We perform a thorough systems check of all units before delivery as stated by our General Manager.  In this systems...

check, we focus on all of the major systems for correct functionality ie: water systems, waste and gray tanks, electrical, propane system, fridge, furnace, A/C’s, water heater, etc.  Every new RV that we sell includes a manufacturer’s warranty.  This warranty is provided because problems do occur in any RV – new or used.  This fact is universal - regardless of price range, manufacturer or dealer.  The Winnebago Motor Home in question is backed by support and warranty that is second to none other.  While it is regrettable that this unit was not in a perfect state at time of delivery, such a state of perfection does not exist in any new home, car, truck, trailer, or motor home. If this were not the case, warranties would not be required.  Like any reputable manufacturer, Winnebago strives to find all defects on their products before they leave the factory.  Like any reputable dealer, Motor Sportsland strives to find defects in any unit before delivery to a customer.  When these two protections do not catch all defects, the manufacturer warranty is used to mitigate the problems. The motor home in question is not defective.  It has problems like any other.  These problems are being resolved and the customer will be provided with a fully functioning product.  As stated in our “Refund and Exchange Policy” on the Revdex.com website… “Due to the titled nature of RVs, there is no refund or exchange privilege.”  We are unable to return or exchange a new unit which has been sold, delivered, and licensed with the State of Utah. Our service manager has personally been in contact with Ms. [redacted] to resolve her concerns and we hope that our efforts will be satisfactory.

Revdex.com:
I have reviewed the response made by the business in reference to complaint ID [redacted], and find that this resolution is satisfactory to me.
Sincerely,
[redacted]

Complaint: [redacted]
I am rejecting this response because the dealership iss not being truethfull.  The only service I require is to have a metal Winnebago emblem replaced on my door.  WinnebagosCorporate Office has told me several times that Motor Sportslands dealership agreement requires that they perform warranty service regardless of where the vehicle was purchased.  Winnebagp did offer to send me a new emblem.  However, I hav e no idea how to attach it to the door without doing damage.  They suggested that I could take it to an auto repair shop and have them attach it.  Unfortunately, irt would be on my dime.  I have talked to Sierra RV about warranty service.  They estimated that it would be a two to four m onth process to complete repairs. 
Sincerely,
[redacted]

Mr. [redacted], I have personally spoken to 5 individuals who were in the service department during the time of your visit. They have all separately confirmed the details which I have previously outlined. I have also contacted Winnebago about what you have claimed they told you. They confirmed to me that they would never force a dealership to perform service for any customer.  They have also reviewed their calls and informed me that they did not, at any time; inform you that we are required to perform your service. Our dealer agreement does not bind us to perform warranty work on your vehicle.  This has been confirmed with multiple managers in Winnebago's service team, management with Winnebago's customer service department, and a thorough review of the dealer agreement. We have spent countless hours (as has Winnebago) in tracing your claims, listening to recorded phone calls, and performing interviews with those present at the time of your visit.  We and Winnebago can find no evidence of Winnebago telling you that you have entitlement to warranty service work through us. You have also stated in a google review that “Winnebago will not hold them to the terms of their dealership agreement.” In your phone call to Winnebago’s Customer Relations Department on June 30th 2017, you were informed by the agent that they “can’t force them (the dealer) to work on your coach.” Furthermore, even you have stated in an email dated July 8, 2017 that you were informed before your purchase from another dealer that we are not required to service your vehicle.  You have accused us of being untruthful; however we have been very forward and open even from the beginning.  After hours of research, it has become very apparent that it is you who is not being truthful. Despite all of this, we HAVE performed warranty work on your RV and fixed everything that was in our power to fix with the time restraint that you demanded.  Your remaining complaints are in regards to aesthetic repairs of a very minor nature.  These repairs require ordering parts which you demanded be present immediately. The impossibility of your requests suggests that there is nothing we can do to further meet your needs.  You have been profane, demeaning, disrespectful, threatening, and have treated our employees and customers in a manner which is entirely unacceptable. In your calls to Winnebago, you were given the opportunity to have your warranty parts shipped directly to you, which you refused. They also gave you information for 2 other Winnebago dealers who could perform your service. For a reason I cannot understand, you have chosen not to use this avenue either. This has now become a vendetta for you to prove that you can bully our company into your will through methods which were designed to help customers who truly have a problem. We invite you to seek service from your purchasing dealer, or any other Winnebago or Itasca dealer willing to work with you. In regards to the amount you paid to your dealer in Iowa, many factors affect the price of what may seem to be the same RV.  For example, one of our Winnebago Fuse 23A models in inventory has added options such as upgraded cabinetry, heated plumbing/drainage systems, trailer hitch, solar panels, rear ladder, second coach battery, swivel seats, slideout awning, generator, powered vents, upholstery upgrades, and tvs. The Fuse that you purchased for $8000 less in Iowa was certainly not equipped identically as the one in our inventory. Our pricing methods do not even allow for such a high markup. We have found that although our customers are price conscious, they also appreciate added features from the factory. We rarely order “Base Only” models in a luxury RV such as a Fuse. In addition, an Iowa dealer would not have charged sales tax at the time of purchase where state law requires us to because you reside in our state. You were still required to pay tax and licensing at the DMV when you licensed your vehicle so that $5000 or so is not really a savings but rather a deferred expense. In conclusion, we are unable to allow a hostile and threatening atmosphere to be present in our dealership and so we must exercise our right to refuse service to you. Ultimately, this is not because you have purchased your RV from a different dealership, but rather because of the manner in which you have acted around our employees and customers.

Mr. [redacted] came to the dealership last night and made us aware of the incident that occurred on his second trip out, as discussed with Mr. [redacted] last night we apologized for the mistake of sending him off our property with the incorrect ball size, we assured him that we would repair the trailer and...

get him the correct ball mount as soon as we could get the trailer here to evaluate any damages that happened to the trailer. We set up a 10 AM pickup for today 8/16 Mr. [redacted] informed us that no one would be present at ten as they would be working we ask them to make sure and remove any coupler locks that may be on the trailer so that we could bring the trailer back.  When we got to his home to pick up Mr. [redacted]’s trailer at 10 AM he had neglected to unlock the trailer, we have called him to try to set up a new time that we could pick up his trailer and repair any damage.  While we were there we have taken many pictures that show minor damage to the trailer and no apparent damage to the trailer coupler.    Last night we presented Mr. [redacted] with two options 1. Trade in his trailer for another. He was very clear that he did not what to trade his trailer to us.    2. Allow us to repair any damage and replace the ball to the correct size. Mr. [redacted] indicated he only wanted us to repurchase his trailer, repurchase is not warranted and is not an option. Our obligation to him is to repair his minor damage to his trailer and make sure that he has the correct ball size. We do a great number of preparations to make ready a trailer for the customer. We do occasionally make a mistake and as a result create a problem for a customer. When we see such a problem we are very willing to resolve it.   I agree it would be a shame for Mr. [redacted] to allow this one event to prevent him from enjoying future camping experience.                 We will continue to attempt to set up a time to bring his trailer here and get it repaired. Jason B[redacted] Vice President

Dear Mr. [redacted], We apologize that your experience with our dealership did not meet your expectations.  I would like to make a few clarifications which have already been conveyed to you; however, you have chosen not to include them in your complaint about our company. 1 – We do honor our...

agreements with Winnebago to provide service on their products; however, we also reserve the right to refuse service to any customer.  When a customer is belligerent and disrespectful to our employees, we indeed attempt to shelter them from such harassment.  No person deserves to be belittled and bullied, and we absolutely stand by our service manager’s assessment of this situation and his decision to deny service.  As you remember, it was only after your repeated belligerent expressions, and threatening demeanor that we asked you to leave our premises. 2 – Prior to working on any vehicle, it is our policy to have a signed Repair Order from the owner.  This document provides us permission to work on your vehicle and also authorizes us to make claims on your behalf to your manufacturer’s warranty.  A signed repair order is an industry standard prior to any work being performed.  This is standard at nearly all reputable repair centers.  You were very hostile when asked to sign this document.  At this point, our service manager informed you that we could not work on your unit without such permission.  You were once again belligerent to him. 3 – In this case, we did perform warranty repairs on your coach while you waited prior to asking you to leave.  You made demands for additional repairs to be performed during your visit that would have required us to order parts that were not available on site.  You insisted that we perform these repairs immediately during your wait.  As explained, this was not within our abilities under the time requirement which you demanded. 4 – Certain items on your coach are considered “Chassis” items which must be taken to a Ford dealership to be fixed.  The broken cover to your cigarette lighter is not available to us as a replacement part.  This was explained and we recommended to you to take this unit to a Ford dealership of your choice for its replacement, you stated you did not buy the motorhome form a Ford dealer and should not have to take it to them, remember you did not buy it from us either. We did not deny warranty repairs; we referred you to the correct location to have those particular repairs completed. 5 – Because of your attitude and profane language and name calling, another party who was in the office with their child was forced to remove them from the location and was understandably upset that such language was used around a child.  This kind of behavior is deplorable in any situation, but even more so around a small child. 6 – Winnebago requests that we perform warranty service for all Winnebago products; however, priority is given to customers who have purchased their vehicles from our dealership.  This is allowable per our agreement with Winnebago.  In fact, Winnebago has expressed to us that such service to outside customers is preferred, but it is at our election and is not required. Please note that only very few warranty repairs are able to be completed at the time of drop off.  This is because manufacturers require authorization prior to work being completed and in some cases parts must be ordered, built, and shipped. Please note also that future appointments must be scheduled. Such appointments are to drop off a vehicle, and immediate pickup may not be available depending on the nature of the repair. Pending an apology and a commitment to more appropriate behavior from you, we invite you back to our dealership for your warranty service on your Winnebago product during your warranty period; however, please be aware that should your treat our employees and other visitors with such condescension and disregard, you will be asked to leave again.   Thank you for your time to give us feedback.

We accept that Mr. [redacted] was free to determine how and when
he would use his motor home. We simply stated that we are not aware of anything
that would keep the motor home from being used on longer trips. We intended no
disrespect.
As Mr. [redacted] stated, the motor home was manufactured by Thor,
not by Motor Sportsland. Thor provided a one year warranty on the vehicle from
the date of purchase although we were able to get them to cover some repairs, on
a good will basis, even after the warranty period. Motor Sportsland provided no
warranty on the vehicle, however we spent considerable monies administering the
warranty, for which we received no remuneration other than the customers
potential good will, which we clearly didn’t get.
In order to help resolve problems that occur as a result of
defects in materials or workmanship during manufacturing, Motor Sportsland makes
repairs to Thor motor homes under the direction of, and at the expense of Thor.
 We cannot perform warranty work on these
vehicles unless it is approved by the manufacturer. Further, we perform the
work as instructed and to the extent that they instruct us to.  The processes of getting approval for repairs,
ordering and receiving parts are too frequently quite slow, due to backlogs at
the manufacturer’s plant. Very few of these delays are within our control at
all. Nonetheless, we are truly sorry to see any customer have to be inconvenienced
by waiting.
Because we are not the Manufacturer of the motor home, we
cannot reasonably be held responsible for problems we didn’t create. We feel
badly that Mr. [redacted]’s vehicle has had the number of problems that it has, but
we believe that we have worked hard to get the problems resolved as efficiently
as possible.
Just the same, we can understand the frustration that customers
feel when they have problems. After all, we are customers too.
Mr. [redacted] states that he has found motor homes, like his, being
offered for sale on the Internet for between $69,995 and $79,995. If he truly
feels that those values are reasonable then I would recommend that he list his vehicle
on one of these sites and attempt to sell it on a retail basis himself. We are simply
not in the business of buying for retail and then trying to sell at an inflated
(unfair) retail price.
Even though we don’t feel we should be blamed for the manufacturing
problems of this vehicle, Mr. [redacted] has made it clear that he wishes to
separate himself from us. We feel badly about that, however, that is completely
his right to do so. That being the case, I would suggest that he either attempt
to sell the vehicle himself or that he trade it to one of the other dealers in
town or on the internet. We could provide some cautions, however I doubt he
would believe or understand them. I have little doubt he can find a dealer who
will inflate their retail price sufficiently to give him a trade value of
$66,500 and then he’ll feel validated.
As far as buying his vehicle at a retail value as he has
suggested, we respectfully decline.
Sincerely,
Brad L. B[redacted]
Motor Sportsland