Murphy Bros. Design | Build | Remodel

I’m glad I had a chance to speak with [redacted] this morning about his complaint and discover from his perspective how things unfolded.  He was very honest and accommodating in recalling the facts for which I am grateful. First of all, I want to apologize to [redacted] for his disappointing experience...

with us.  Secondly, we are refunding his design fee as he requested without reservation. Such a complaint for us is exceedingly rare and normally the result of failed negotiations and frustration.  That was not the case here.  It turns out that a simple breakdown in communication led to his request for a conversation about his design fee never getting to the owner of the company, who traditionally handles such issues.  Had the owner, John Murphy, known he would have called [redacted] immediately as is and has always been our practice these past 35 years.  Be that as it may we failed to make it easy for [redacted] to have that important conversation. [redacted] and I also talked about the change in cost between the initial “ball park” guesstimate and the actual line item detail created along with the initial plan by our team. It appears that the designer who did the initial design agreement did underestimate the garage “ball park” cost at the start.  I explained to [redacted] that with some smaller projects there isn’t any economy of scale to help keep the cost down as was the case with this project.  Our best guess at the start should have reflected a higher end to that cost range. Perhaps the hardest question remodelers face from homeowners is “how much will it cost?” with only a general scope of work to go by.  It’s sort of like asking someone how much the dinner party will cost before sending them, without a list, to the grocery store.  Even so, in most cases, our actual costs come in within the “ball park” range, but every now and then we get surprised too.

Revdex.com:
I have reviewed the response made by the business in reference to complaint ID [redacted], and find that this resolution is satisfactory to me. Tom from Murphy Bros responded promptly to my filing and neither Tom nor the owner were aware of my facts until now. I think this was simply one of those situations where the lines of communication broke down. Given Murphy Bros reputation, including the experience of a close friend of mine, I would not hesitate to contact them again to bid on my next project. A full refund of the design fee has already been received. [redacted]

Initial Business Response /* (1000, 5, 2015/12/09) */
I am sorry that Rev. [redacted] did not have her expectations fully met. I do not disagree at all with her complaints as that is her experience. Regarding the "working with the designer" issue, I can only say that I did not hear that this was...

any problem until late in the construction process. The designer consistently gets excellent marks from his clients and his fellow staff. Without being alerted by the homeowner about a frustration, there would be no way of me taking any corrective steps. That said, the end results of the project are very good in both design and quality of workmanship.
Regarding the placement of the toilet. Both the designer and the project manager said that the toilet was placed closer to the vanity than what was requested by the homeowner. The plumber decided unilaterally that placing the toilet to code (15" from the center of the toilet to the edge of the vanity) was appropriate as it is customary in nearly all installations. In fact the clients plumber (whom Rev. [redacted] raved about) who was hired by her to do work not associated with Murphy Bros. work, told me that he would have put the toilet in exactly the same place. This is not to say that the toilet should not have been moved over 4" more per the owners request but I am stating this just to note that the location is workable for nearly all toilet installations and complies with the state building to code.
Being this issue was not caught until near the end of the project we thought it made sense to discuss if it was functional as is or if we needed to develop an alternate plan. As this was near the final payment being due, I suggested that Rev. [redacted] keep $1000 withheld until some final touchups were completed (the toilet amongst other normal punch out items) and we were able to resolve the toilet issue.
There were 2 issues that Rev. [redacted] brought up about the toilet. First was that a larger than average friend might not be able to use the commode and secondly that the toilet paper holder mounted on the vanity might interfere with anyone's use of the commode. Her friend eventually was able to use the toilet and Rev. [redacted] told us it worked fine for her friend. My Project Manager, Drew, did come over and review the toilet paper holder with her and agreed that the paper holder was a little tighter than ideal and suggested that we install a recessed model. As Rev. [redacted] provided the original TP holder we suggest she exchange it for a recessed model which she did. We then came over and change out the TP holder and that seemed to work very well. In fact, following is the email that I received from her regarding this solution. This was after moving her water a second time to get it to her most preferred location:
"From: [redacted] mailto:[redacted]@yahoo.com
Sent: Wednesday, October 14, 2015 7:08 PM
To: [redacted] Murphy
Subject: Thank you!
Steve has graciously moved the water heater, giving me even more access room than I had before. In addition, he adjusted the sink handles on the vanity so they are now aligned.
My recessed toilet paper holder from Menards has made the toilet placement manageable. I could not ask for more.
[redacted]"
Regarding compensation, I believe that there is precedence that would require some injury to a party in order for compensation to be justified. While we didn't finish to the exact detail that was discussed with Rev. [redacted] and my staff. We did finish the job in a manner that is high quality, aesthetically pleasing and 100% functional as intended. As a practical measure, all remodeling does require that owners and contractors have some flexibility in the details in getting to the final product.
That said, I believe that $100 credit to cover the expense of the extra tp holder is fair compensation. If the Rev. [redacted] refuses to pay the final bill, it is our position that the project is unwarranted due to non-payment by the homeowner. While we strive for client delight in every project, we can't afford to just accept nonpayment as a remedy for expected client inconveniences and minor adjustments to the plan. I am hopeful that Rev. [redacted] can understand the legitimacy of my position.
Sincerely,
[redacted] D. Murphy, Owner
Murphy Bros. Designer's and Remodelers
Initial Consumer Rebuttal /* (3000, 7, 2015/12/19) */
(The consumer indicated he/she DID NOT accept the response from the business.)
These are my responses to Mr. Murphy's letter; my final statement follows.
.... customary in nearly all installations. REPLY: I was informed by the project manager that the designer forgot to transfer the correct specs when he created a new Final Layout.
.... [redacted] raved about REPLY: We met once when he responded to an emergency
.... exactly the same place. REPLY: Was he informed this was not according to contract?
.... near the end of the project (REPLY: What were the project manager and designer doing that the issue had to be caught by an elderly homeowner on an August walk-through
.... resolve the toilet issue REPLY: Records show the final payment was not due at this August visit. It was not presented until October 23rd. "Develop an alternate plan?" I was told they resist both tearing everything up and hammering out more concrete or cutting 4" off the vanity. I understood that $1000 credit was acceptable so the company did not need to go to these expensive extremes.
.... recessed model. REPLY: No, I was the one who suggested that was the only possibility. Drew said to wait while he and the designer tried to find a better alternative. I finally bought a much less attractive holder that required a hole be cut in my expensive vanity.
.... which she did. REPLY: I was eventually told Pipeline Supply did not have a recessed model, so the original holder was sent back to Murphy Bros.
.... a second time (REPLY: only because Mr. Murphy insisted the plumber do the work while we talked in spite of my telling the plumber he was not welcome unless it was under my oversight
..... ask for more. REPLY: This was written when I thought $1000 in compensation was a given.
.... 100% functional as intended. REPLY: My attached response will reply to this statement.
.... client inconveniences and minor adjustments REPLY: Murphy's choosing not to follow the contract now becomes "client inconvenience?" A major error of toilet placement becomes "minor adjustment?" I disagree.
.... of my position. REPLY: A close perusal of my contract reveals that Murphy Bros. has not paid attention to items which were included in the contract but neither completed nor given credit due me.
December 19, 2015
According to [redacted], Minnesota Revdex.com Mediation Coordinator, "This business has agreed to abide by our standards for trust that include honoring promises, being responsive to complaints, and embodying integrity by approaching all business dealings with honesty and transparency.
STANDARD FOR TRUST
Murphy Bros. exercised little control over their contracted plumber, who "decided unilaterally that placing the toilet to code (15" from the center of the toilet to the edge of the vanity) was appropriate as it is customary in nearly all installations," regardless of accepted layout plan. He also chose to disregard my choice for a shower stall and took delivery and installed a different one, installed a 40 gallon water heater when a 50 gallon tank was in the contract, did not change a faucet valve as the contract directed, did not install vanity faucet and handles straight and never "relocated shut-off for outside faucet."
The design process was a frustration. Decisions were expected to be made on the spot. I sent the designer an email requesting that he tell me what credits I was receiving. He never replied, instead showing up with an invoice already made out and requiring initialization immediately. A copy of the first plan wasn't even sent to me until I requested it. I had to go completely on trust regarding the expenses, since all expenditures were made with no invoices going to the client, not even when an invoice was required for a warranty to be valid. I had no way of knowing if the designer was honest, dishonest or incompetent, though signs of a problem were there when he made a $500 mistake at the beginning.
TRANSPARANCY
Every plan was labeled FINAL LAYOUT, with no specific identification, which was confusing
The project manager's responsibility was unclear. I tried to stay out of the workmen's way, yet everything done incorrectly had to be discovered by me; the plumbing problems, crooked wall plate, squeaky door, sill film coming off, gunk in the vanity sink, vanity top problem, to name a few. The cracked window, however, was noticed by the designer.
On 6/17 I purchased all my plumbing accessories from Home Depot. Subsequently I was told I needed to buy from Murphy's vendor and should return my products to Home Depot. I returned my items and purchased what I needed from Pipeline Supply, including a matching toilet paper holder for $22.90. I was told only the retail price. Neither the plumber nor designer told me the wholesale price. Later the designer admitted I did not have to buy from Pipeline to keep the warranty active.
Two weeks I waited for clarification of possibilities and costs regarding electrical work. I was never told, instead having to speak to the electrician myself and working it out with him.
The designer suggested a variation on sink placement. I agreed. Pictures consistently show the off-center arrangement, giving no hint that was no longer so. He then changed his mind, decided to place it in the center, and never mentioned it to me nor offered an explanation after I pointed out the "error" to the project manager.
A heating vent, different from what I expected and inappropriate for my needs, was installed in the bathroom without any discussion with me. The designer knew that this vent would be opened and closed often, dependent upon sporadic use of the bathroom. I must make 30 arthritic wrist turns to fully open the vent.
Warranties were a difficulty, though Mr. Murphy said they would be given to me at the end. Flooring warranty information was given to me only long after the deadline for registering was passed. Required test data was never taken, nor was I given the required invoice. Despite repeated requests I have received no information on care of the engineered flooring and the shower stall.
HONESTY
Several items included in the contract were not completed, yet no equivalent credit was given to me.
a. Relocation of the shut off for outside faucet

b. Replacing the valve - parts and labor - for the frozen shut off

c. Pocket door and lock versus standard door cost difference

d. Building fee permit - I was charged $650. Actual amount Murphy Bros. paid was $316.15, which I know only because I called Roseville City Hall.
e. A contracted built-in linen cabinet was not constructed and installed. I received no credit. According to the designer on July 28th; in response to my asking the cost if I installed a cabinet down the road, "Depending on the size cabinet that you would put in there your probably looking at between $1200 to $1,500.00."
f. I ordered a shower stall that required a one month advance notice for $759.40. The plumber changed that to a different stall that was available on one day's notice. What was the cost difference?
g. Murphy Bros. was extravagant in ordering Sheetrock, ending up with ten unused sheets which they kept without giving me any credit.
h. A change in the contract was made from a full bath to a 3/4 bath. What was the cost difference?
i No credit of $22.90 was given for the toilet paper holder I returned to Murphy Bros. since it was their error that made it unsuitable.
j. Overlooked -- there should have been a charge of $100 for HVAC shortening of the heating duct, which was not in the contract.
HONORING PROMISES
A contract broken is a promise unkept and trust lost.
It seems the erroneous placement of the toilet is now accepted as fact. To refute the original problem I present this postscript. According to the FINAL LAYOUT signed off on July 15th, the outside edge of the toilet seat was designed to be 11" from the vanity. Instead the distance is only 8 1/4". The 11" is on the side away from the vanity. This was important from the beginning because I must use the vanity corner for leverage in getting up due to knee problems.
I assume Mr. Murphy will honor his Revdex.com pledge and see that I get the overlooked financial reimbursement that I am due. The cost of the linen cupboard alone was probably $1500.
Mr. Murphy and the project manager have consistently attempted to attend to questions and complaints and have seen to it that additional odd items were done gratis, for which I am grateful. The lack of adherence to the plan regarding the toilet came as a distressing surprise. Their total acceptance of the situation without holding either of the men responsible and expecting the client to shoulder all results without complaint is irritating to say the least. I am willing to compromise on the $1000, the amount Mr. Murphy mentioned, if there is some sort of consequence administered to the plumbing contractor and the designer. Perhaps the money should come from their pockets. This is where we ne
Final Consumer Response /* (3000, 10, 2016/01/05) */
(The consumer indicated he/she DID NOT accept the response from the business.)
These are my responses to Mr. Murphy's letter; my final statement follows.
.... customary in nearly all installations. REPLY: I was informed by the project manager that the designer forgot to transfer the correct specs when he created a new Final Layout.
.... [redacted] raved about REPLY: We met once when he responded to an emergency
.... exactly the same place. REPLY: Was he informed this was not according to contract?
.... near the end of the project (REPLY: What were the project manager and designer doing that the issue had to be caught by an elderly homeowner on an August walk-through
.... resolve the toilet issue REPLY: Records show the final payment was not due at this August visit. It was not presented until October 23rd. "Develop an alternate plan?" I was told they resist both tearing everything up and hammering out more concrete or cutting 4" off the vanity. I understood that $1000 credit was acceptable so the company did not need to go to these expensive extremes.
.... recessed model. REPLY: No, I was the one who suggested that was the only possibility. Drew said to wait while he and the designer tried to find a better alternative. I finally bought a much less attractive holder that required a hole be cut in my expensive vanity.
.... which she did. REPLY: I was eventually told Pipeline Supply did not have a recessed model, so the original holder was sent back to Murphy Bros.
.... a second time (REPLY: only because Mr. Murphy insisted the plumber do the work while we talked in spite of my telling the plumber he was not welcome unless it was under my oversight
..... ask for more. REPLY: This was written when I thought $1000 in compensation was a given.
.... 100% functional as intended. REPLY: My attached response will reply to this statement.
.... client inconveniences and minor adjustments REPLY: Murphy's choosing not to follow the contract now becomes "client inconvenience?" A major error of toilet placement becomes "minor adjustment?" I disagree.
.... of my position. REPLY: A close perusal of my contract reveals that Murphy Bros. has not paid attention to items which were included in the contract but neither completed nor given credit due me.
December 19, 2015
According to [redacted], Minnesota Revdex.com Mediation Coordinator, "This business has agreed to abide by our standards for trust that include honoring promises, being responsive to complaints, and embodying integrity by approaching all business dealings with honesty and transparency.
STANDARD FOR TRUST
Murphy Bros. exercised little control over their contracted plumber, who "decided unilaterally that placing the toilet to code (15" from the center of the toilet to the edge of the vanity) was appropriate as it is customary in nearly all installations," regardless of accepted layout plan. He also chose to disregard my choice for a shower stall and took delivery and installed a different one, installed a 40 gallon water heater when a 50 gallon tank was in the contract, did not change a faucet valve as the contract directed, did not install vanity faucet and handles straight and never "relocated shut-off for outside faucet."
The design process was a frustration. Decisions were expected to be made on the spot. I sent the designer an email requesting that he tell me what credits I was receiving. He never replied, instead showing up with an invoice already made out and requiring initialization immediately. A copy of the first plan wasn't even sent to me until I requested it. I had to go completely on trust regarding the expenses, since all expenditures were made with no invoices going to the client, not even when an invoice was required for a warranty to be valid. I had no way of knowing if the designer was honest, dishonest or incompetent, though signs of a problem were there when he made a $500 mistake at the beginning.
TRANSPARANCY
Every plan was labeled FINAL LAYOUT, with no specific identification, which was confusing
The project manager's responsibility was unclear. I tried to stay out of the workmen's way, yet everything done incorrectly had to be discovered by me; the plumbing problems, crooked wall plate, squeaky door, sill film coming off, gunk in the vanity sink, vanity top problem, to name a few. The cracked window, however, was noticed by the designer.
On 6/17 I purchased all my plumbing accessories from Home Depot. Subsequently I was told I needed to buy from Murphy's vendor and should return my products to Home Depot. I returned my items and purchased what I needed from Pipeline Supply, including a matching toilet paper holder for $22.90. I was told only the retail price. Neither the plumber nor designer told me the wholesale price. Later the designer admitted I did not have to buy from Pipeline to keep the warranty active.
Two weeks I waited for clarification of possibilities and costs regarding electrical work. I was never told, instead having to speak to the electrician myself and working it out with him.
The designer suggested a variation on sink placement. I agreed. Pictures consistently show the off-center arrangement, giving no hint that was no longer so. He then changed his mind, decided to place it in the center, and never mentioned it to me nor offered an explanation after I pointed out the "error" to the project manager.
A heating vent, different from what I expected and inappropriate for my needs, was installed in the bathroom without any discussion with me. The designer knew that this vent would be opened and closed often, dependent upon sporadic use of the bathroom. I must make 30 arthritic wrist turns to fully open the vent.
Warranties were a difficulty, though Mr. Murphy said they would be given to me at the end. Flooring warranty information was given to me only long after the deadline for registering was passed. Required test data was never taken, nor was I given the required invoice. Despite repeated requests I have received no information on care of the engineered flooring and the shower stall.
HONESTY
Several items included in the contract were not completed, yet no equivalent credit was given to me.
a. Relocation of the shut off for outside faucet
b. Replacing the valve - parts and labor - for the frozen shut off
c. Pocket door and lock versus standard door cost difference
d. Building fee permit - I was charged $650. Actual amount Murphy Bros. paid was $316.15, which I know only because I called Roseville City Hall.
e. A contracted built-in linen cabinet was not constructed and installed. I received no credit. According to the designer on July 28th; in response to my asking the cost if I installed a cabinet down the road, "Depending on the size cabinet that you would put in there your probably looking at between $1200 to $1,500.00."
f. I ordered a shower stall that required a one month advance notice for $759.40. The plumber changed that to a different stall that was available on one day's notice. What was the cost difference?
g. Murphy Bros. was extravagant in ordering Sheetrock, ending up with ten unused sheets which they kept without giving me any credit.
h. A change in the contract was made from a full bath to a 3/4 bath. What was the cost difference?
I No credit of $22.90 was given for the toilet paper holder I returned to Murphy Bros. since it was their error that made it unsuitable.
j. Overlooked -- there should have been a charge of $100 for HVAC shortening of the heating duct, which was not in the contract.
HONORING PROMISES
A contract broken is a promise unkept and trust lost.
It seems the erroneous placement of the toilet is now accepted as fact. To refute the original problem I present this postscript. According to the FINAL LAYOUT signed off on July 15th, the outside edge of the toilet seat was designed to be 11" from the vanity. Instead the distance is only 8 1/4". The 11" is on the side away from the vanity. This was important from the beginning because I must use the vanity corner for leverage in getting up due to knee problems.
I assume Mr. Murphy will honor his Revdex.com pledge and see that I get the overlooked financial reimbursement that I am due. The cost of the linen cupboard alone was probably $1500.
Mr. Murphy and the project manager have consistently attempted to attend to questions and complaints and have seen to it that additional odd items were done gratis, for which I am grateful. The lack of adherence to the plan regarding the toilet came as a distressing surprise. Their total acceptance of the situation without holding either of the men responsible and expecting the client to shoulder all results without complaint is irritating to say the least. I am willing to compromise on the $1000, the amount Mr. Murphy mentioned, if there is some sort of consequence administered to the plumbing contractor and the designer. Perhaps the money should come from their pockets.