Initial Business Response /* (1000, 5, 2016/08/26) */
8/23/2016
[redacted]
This letter is in response to the complaint made on August 18th 2016 in Which [redacted] asked to...
be reimbursed for leak and concrete charges from another pool company stating R&R Pools had been at fault.
In the fall of 2015 we completed a liner replacement and poured 2' of concrete around the homeowner's swimming pool.
In the spring of 2016 the pool was not holding water to a full level. We opened the pool and did some investigative services to attempt to find the source of the leak. We found the light to be leaking in the back. We used electrical sealant on two different occasions in our attempt to seal the existing hole.
According to the homeowner the second time did not work and they were very unhappy with the product we used which is commonly used for such things. Mrs. came into our store to purchase chemicals on account and told us they had their property caretaker use a different product and claimed that worked and because of such wanted to not pay any of the unrelated bills from the spring opening. She also did not want to pay for any of the chemicals she was picking up that day. We had told her we would be billing for all charges incurred. At this time we also said that the light leak had nothing to do with the pool opening nor the purchase of pool chemicals. She was angry when she left stating that Mr. would be in touch.
A few hours later she returned with the same chemicals placing them hastily of the floor in front of customers and two store staff and stated something to the effect "there now we're even" and stormed out. At the time we reviewed the actions on our video camera and discussed the situation with the front store staff to get as much information as possible.
This is not our original pool, nor were we part of the original installation of the pool or the original placement and installation of the pavers that used to exist around the pool. The pool is older and the light and conduit was also existing prior to any service work done by R&R Pools.
In 2015 when the 2' of concrete was poured we had removed existing pavers to make room for the concrete. Prep work did not include cutting anything that could have damaged the light conduit.
To date the homeowners have not paid for the services completed in 2016 which included the physical act of getting the pool opened for the season and the solar blanket that was delivered $[redacted] plus taxes ($[redacted] less the cleaning that was not done and the solar blanket installation. Total originally $[redacted] ). They also have not received or paid for the investigative leak services as we considered that a complimentary service at the time to ensure it was not due to the liner replacement service.
We were not informed after the last communication with Mrs. that the pool continued to leak and were not given the opportunity to do our due diligence to find the supposed problems. The conduit was never part of anything we serviced or worked around. Digging was not required as the existing pavers were removed to pour the concrete.
R&R pools does stand behind their work. We were not told that the pool continued to leak. Lights in older pools are a common source of leaks. The faceplate could have had a slight leak to it, possibly a screw was not completely tightened or a gasket behind the faceplate did not have a perfect seal. That also could be a source of a leak. As we were not present we will never actually know. If the gasket was a problem we apologize. The light leak which we do know was there at one point was not caused by R&R Pools severing the conduit. The liner from the liner replacement we completed in 2015 did not show any signs of leakage. As for the light leak, as noted the pool is fairly old.
We have already written off their original opening bill of $[redacted] plus taxes worth of unrelated completed service work and product to appease them and put this all behind us. As they requested we did not bill them and never heard from them again as they stated the problem was solved on their end.
[redacted]
Initial Consumer Rebuttal /* (3000, 8, 2016/08/30) */
(The consumer indicated he/she DID NOT accept the response from the business.)
The swimming pool had never leaked prior to the installation of the new concrete surround and vinyl liner by R&R Pools in late 2015. After installing the liner, R&R Pools filled the pool to a level below the underwater light. At the time, we specifically instructed R&R Pools that the pool should be filled with salt water from the [redacted]. Our instructions were ignored and fresh water was trucked in and further filled from our garden hose as well. This result was needless expense, not only for the fresh water trucked in, but also on our domestic water bill We are at a loss to understand why R&R would deliberately disregard our instructions, the more so since they had maintained the pool in the past and knew well that it was a salt water pool.
In early June of 2016 we had the pool filled to normal level with salt water, so that, in the event of any leaks, R&R Pools would have the opportunity to rectify them them prior to the scheduled pool opening in mid June. We elected to have an licensed plumber who had filled the pool, coordinate with R&R Pools, since we were abroad in early June.
Opening of the pool had been scheduled for the week of 15 June, 2015. At least three weeks prior to this, we had the pool filled to mid-skimmer level with salt water from the [redacted]. Within three days, the water level fell to below the underwater light. Our plumber alerted R&R Pools that the pool was leaking, with the expectation that R&R Pools would eliminate the leak(s) prior to opening the pool, in order to avoid needless delay. R&R Pools never responded.
Having done nothing to address the leak, R&R Pools finally arrived on site in mid June, with the intention of opening the pool, which was still leaking. Given that the water level descended to the underwater light, and had not dropped over the Winter when the pool was filled to below the level of the light, it was evident that there was a major leak at the light.
R&R attempted to fix the leak at the light on two occasions, using electrical sealant where the power wire entered the enclosure for the underwater light. In both cases, this procedure failed and the pool continued to leak. When this was brought to the attention of R&R, they stated that the leak had been addressed with electrical sealant and that this was to" industry standard." We had a licensed electrician examine the sealant used, We consulted a licensed electrician, who examined a sample of the sealant used, and concluded that it was duct seal, totally unsuitable for continuous immersion In any event, this approach would not have worked to seal between the rubber covered cable and the opening in the copper enclosure of the underwater light.
Had R&R Pools properly inspected the locus of the leak, they would have found that the PVC conduit connection to underwater light had been severed. We can only conclude, given the fact that the pool had never leaked, that this connection had been damaged when R&R Pools installed the pool surround. Although R&R Pools claim that there was no way that the conduit system could be disturbed in the course of their work, the fact is that the conduit, rises to an elevation above the normal pool water level , just below the pavers, and therefore must have been disturbed either ehen the pavers were removed or replaced by R&R Pools in late 2015.
Our plumber picked up the pool chemicals at R&R Pools and was informed that, given the recent history of leaks and the considerable expenses and delay incurred in refilling the pool on five occasions, there would be no invoice for the chemicals. Subsequently, my [redacted] went to R&R Pools to exchange one of the chemicals, and was informed that we would be invoiced for all the chemicals.
We discusse4d the situation, and given R&R Pools disregarded our instructions regarding filling the pool in 2015, damaged the conduit connection to the underwater light whilst installing the pool surround, cavalierly ignored repeated notification about the leakage prior to the scheduled opening, ineffective attempted to seal the leak with unsuitable sealant, and concluded that we were losing confidence in R&R Pools.
When R&R Pools reneged on an undertaking to waive charges for pool chemicals provided in 2016, considering the expense to which we had been subjected in refilling the pool on at least five occasions, which would not have been required if R&R Pools had repaired the leak when it was first brought to their attention. At that point, we lost all confidence in R&R Pools, and returned the chemicals to them.
The expenses we have incurred, apart from refilling the pool, include excavation to access the rear of the light, electrician's fees for repairing the conduit connection, replacing the section of pavers, proper diagnosis of the leaks, pressure testing of the piping system and repair of the face plate of the skimmer which had been improperly installed and finally re-opening the pool fully three months after the scheduled date.
We are seeking re-imbursement from R&R Pools for all of the expenses resulting from defective workmanship and damage caused to the conduit system, none of which would have been necessary had they exercised due diligence and the level competence we would expect from an experienced pool contractor
Final Business Response /* (4000, 10, 2016/09/06) */
[redacted]
This letter is in response to the complaint made on August 18th 2016 in which [redacted] asked to be reimbursed for leak and concrete charges from another pool company stating R&R Pools had been at fault.
A follow up to the complainants' response:
As previously noted we completed only a liner replacement for the homeowners and installed a concrete collar around the pool. We did not do excavation and there were previously existing pavers around the pool. Leakage from lights are fairly common and this is an older pool.
We were under the understanding from the homeowners that their plumber had fixed the light leak problem. As they were not happy at the time this all occurred we had written off their original opening bill of $[redacted] plus taxes worth of unrelated completed service work and product to appease them and put this all behind us.
We apologize for the gasket leak if that did occur and would have rectified that if we had been informed that the pool continued to leak. We have never been contacted.
The light was not in our scope and although we would have done what we could to fix the light leak the cost would not have been waived as it is not under warranty nor did it fall under our previous service workmanship promise.
We will not be covering the requested expenses.
[redacted]
Final Consumer Response /* ([redacted]0, 13, 2016/09/07) */
(The consumer indicated he/she DID NOT accept the response from the business.)
We have reviewed R&R Pools Response of 6 September 2016.
The indisputable fact is that the pool had never leaked prior to the installation of the liner and concrete surround in the Fall of 2015. The only logical conclusion is that in the course of removing and replacing the pool deck pavers in the vicinity of the underwater light the conduit connection to the light enclosure was damaged. Furthermore, the skimmer flange was improperly installed and resulted in further leakage.
It would be reasonable to expect that a competent and experienced pool contractor would install a liner which did not leak.
When advised regarding the leak on several occasions prior to the prearranged pool opening date, R&R Pools did not respond. When they arrived to commission the pool the leakage was still occurring. R&R Pools twice attempted to repair the leak at the light, using a sealant which a licensed electrician has subsequently determined was entirely unsuitable for the application. Each time an attempt was made to repair the leak, we had to refill the pool again with salt water from the [redacted], a considerable expense.
As stated previously, we had no faith in R&R Pools following their abortive attempts to address the major leak at the light, not to mention reneging on the undertaking of [redacted] to provide the chemicals at no cost to us in the light of the problems we had experienced.
. We therefore returned the chemicals and concluded that R&R Pools were unwilling to stand behind their work.
The statement that the light was not under warranty is irrelevant. The conduit connection can only have been damaged in the course ofR&Rs work. It would be reasonable to expect that R&R Pools would properly install the liner so that there was no water leakage at any of the penetrations, including the underwater light enclosure and the skimmer flange. Parenthetically, even if the underwater light were still under warranty, the warranty would not cover the damage caused by R&R.
We are seeking reimbursement from from R&R for the cost of repeatedly refilling the pool,proper investigation of the source of the leaks, removal of a section of pool deck and excavation to repair the conduit connection to the pool light, electricians fees for repairing the conduit connection, backfilling and replacing the pavers and repair of the leak at the skimmer plate.
We will forward a copies of the invoices for this work.
Initial Business Response /* (1000, 5, 2016/08/26) */
8/23/2016
[redacted]
This letter is in response to the complaint made on August 18th 2016 in Which [redacted] asked to...
be reimbursed for leak and concrete charges from another pool company stating R&R Pools had been at fault.
In the fall of 2015 we completed a liner replacement and poured 2' of concrete around the homeowner's swimming pool.
In the spring of 2016 the pool was not holding water to a full level. We opened the pool and did some investigative services to attempt to find the source of the leak. We found the light to be leaking in the back. We used electrical sealant on two different occasions in our attempt to seal the existing hole.
According to the homeowner the second time did not work and they were very unhappy with the product we used which is commonly used for such things. Mrs. came into our store to purchase chemicals on account and told us they had their property caretaker use a different product and claimed that worked and because of such wanted to not pay any of the unrelated bills from the spring opening. She also did not want to pay for any of the chemicals she was picking up that day. We had told her we would be billing for all charges incurred. At this time we also said that the light leak had nothing to do with the pool opening nor the purchase of pool chemicals. She was angry when she left stating that Mr. would be in touch.
A few hours later she returned with the same chemicals placing them hastily of the floor in front of customers and two store staff and stated something to the effect "there now we're even" and stormed out. At the time we reviewed the actions on our video camera and discussed the situation with the front store staff to get as much information as possible.
This is not our original pool, nor were we part of the original installation of the pool or the original placement and installation of the pavers that used to exist around the pool. The pool is older and the light and conduit was also existing prior to any service work done by R&R Pools.
In 2015 when the 2' of concrete was poured we had removed existing pavers to make room for the concrete. Prep work did not include cutting anything that could have damaged the light conduit.
To date the homeowners have not paid for the services completed in 2016 which included the physical act of getting the pool opened for the season and the solar blanket that was delivered $[redacted] plus taxes ($[redacted] less the cleaning that was not done and the solar blanket installation. Total originally $[redacted] ). They also have not received or paid for the investigative leak services as we considered that a complimentary service at the time to ensure it was not due to the liner replacement service.
We were not informed after the last communication with Mrs. that the pool continued to leak and were not given the opportunity to do our due diligence to find the supposed problems. The conduit was never part of anything we serviced or worked around. Digging was not required as the existing pavers were removed to pour the concrete.
R&R pools does stand behind their work. We were not told that the pool continued to leak. Lights in older pools are a common source of leaks. The faceplate could have had a slight leak to it, possibly a screw was not completely tightened or a gasket behind the faceplate did not have a perfect seal. That also could be a source of a leak. As we were not present we will never actually know. If the gasket was a problem we apologize. The light leak which we do know was there at one point was not caused by R&R Pools severing the conduit. The liner from the liner replacement we completed in 2015 did not show any signs of leakage. As for the light leak, as noted the pool is fairly old.
We have already written off their original opening bill of $[redacted] plus taxes worth of unrelated completed service work and product to appease them and put this all behind us. As they requested we did not bill them and never heard from them again as they stated the problem was solved on their end.
[redacted]
Initial Consumer Rebuttal /* (3000, 8, 2016/08/30) */
(The consumer indicated he/she DID NOT accept the response from the business.)
The swimming pool had never leaked prior to the installation of the new concrete surround and vinyl liner by R&R Pools in late 2015. After installing the liner, R&R Pools filled the pool to a level below the underwater light. At the time, we specifically instructed R&R Pools that the pool should be filled with salt water from the [redacted]. Our instructions were ignored and fresh water was trucked in and further filled from our garden hose as well. This result was needless expense, not only for the fresh water trucked in, but also on our domestic water bill We are at a loss to understand why R&R would deliberately disregard our instructions, the more so since they had maintained the pool in the past and knew well that it was a salt water pool.
In early June of 2016 we had the pool filled to normal level with salt water, so that, in the event of any leaks, R&R Pools would have the opportunity to rectify them them prior to the scheduled pool opening in mid June. We elected to have an licensed plumber who had filled the pool, coordinate with R&R Pools, since we were abroad in early June.
Opening of the pool had been scheduled for the week of 15 June, 2015. At least three weeks prior to this, we had the pool filled to mid-skimmer level with salt water from the [redacted]. Within three days, the water level fell to below the underwater light. Our plumber alerted R&R Pools that the pool was leaking, with the expectation that R&R Pools would eliminate the leak(s) prior to opening the pool, in order to avoid needless delay. R&R Pools never responded.
Having done nothing to address the leak, R&R Pools finally arrived on site in mid June, with the intention of opening the pool, which was still leaking. Given that the water level descended to the underwater light, and had not dropped over the Winter when the pool was filled to below the level of the light, it was evident that there was a major leak at the light.
R&R attempted to fix the leak at the light on two occasions, using electrical sealant where the power wire entered the enclosure for the underwater light. In both cases, this procedure failed and the pool continued to leak. When this was brought to the attention of R&R, they stated that the leak had been addressed with electrical sealant and that this was to" industry standard." We had a licensed electrician examine the sealant used, We consulted a licensed electrician, who examined a sample of the sealant used, and concluded that it was duct seal, totally unsuitable for continuous immersion In any event, this approach would not have worked to seal between the rubber covered cable and the opening in the copper enclosure of the underwater light.
Had R&R Pools properly inspected the locus of the leak, they would have found that the PVC conduit connection to underwater light had been severed. We can only conclude, given the fact that the pool had never leaked, that this connection had been damaged when R&R Pools installed the pool surround. Although R&R Pools claim that there was no way that the conduit system could be disturbed in the course of their work, the fact is that the conduit, rises to an elevation above the normal pool water level , just below the pavers, and therefore must have been disturbed either ehen the pavers were removed or replaced by R&R Pools in late 2015.
Our plumber picked up the pool chemicals at R&R Pools and was informed that, given the recent history of leaks and the considerable expenses and delay incurred in refilling the pool on five occasions, there would be no invoice for the chemicals. Subsequently, my [redacted] went to R&R Pools to exchange one of the chemicals, and was informed that we would be invoiced for all the chemicals.
We discusse4d the situation, and given R&R Pools disregarded our instructions regarding filling the pool in 2015, damaged the conduit connection to the underwater light whilst installing the pool surround, cavalierly ignored repeated notification about the leakage prior to the scheduled opening, ineffective attempted to seal the leak with unsuitable sealant, and concluded that we were losing confidence in R&R Pools.
When R&R Pools reneged on an undertaking to waive charges for pool chemicals provided in 2016, considering the expense to which we had been subjected in refilling the pool on at least five occasions, which would not have been required if R&R Pools had repaired the leak when it was first brought to their attention. At that point, we lost all confidence in R&R Pools, and returned the chemicals to them.
The expenses we have incurred, apart from refilling the pool, include excavation to access the rear of the light, electrician's fees for repairing the conduit connection, replacing the section of pavers, proper diagnosis of the leaks, pressure testing of the piping system and repair of the face plate of the skimmer which had been improperly installed and finally re-opening the pool fully three months after the scheduled date.
We are seeking re-imbursement from R&R Pools for all of the expenses resulting from defective workmanship and damage caused to the conduit system, none of which would have been necessary had they exercised due diligence and the level competence we would expect from an experienced pool contractor
Final Business Response /* (4000, 10, 2016/09/06) */
[redacted]
This letter is in response to the complaint made on August 18th 2016 in which [redacted] asked to be reimbursed for leak and concrete charges from another pool company stating R&R Pools had been at fault.
A follow up to the complainants' response:
As previously noted we completed only a liner replacement for the homeowners and installed a concrete collar around the pool. We did not do excavation and there were previously existing pavers around the pool. Leakage from lights are fairly common and this is an older pool.
We were under the understanding from the homeowners that their plumber had fixed the light leak problem. As they were not happy at the time this all occurred we had written off their original opening bill of $[redacted] plus taxes worth of unrelated completed service work and product to appease them and put this all behind us.
We apologize for the gasket leak if that did occur and would have rectified that if we had been informed that the pool continued to leak. We have never been contacted.
The light was not in our scope and although we would have done what we could to fix the light leak the cost would not have been waived as it is not under warranty nor did it fall under our previous service workmanship promise.
We will not be covering the requested expenses.
[redacted]
Final Consumer Response /* ([redacted]0, 13, 2016/09/07) */
(The consumer indicated he/she DID NOT accept the response from the business.)
We have reviewed R&R Pools Response of 6 September 2016.
The indisputable fact is that the pool had never leaked prior to the installation of the liner and concrete surround in the Fall of 2015. The only logical conclusion is that in the course of removing and replacing the pool deck pavers in the vicinity of the underwater light the conduit connection to the light enclosure was damaged. Furthermore, the skimmer flange was improperly installed and resulted in further leakage.
It would be reasonable to expect that a competent and experienced pool contractor would install a liner which did not leak.
When advised regarding the leak on several occasions prior to the prearranged pool opening date, R&R Pools did not respond. When they arrived to commission the pool the leakage was still occurring. R&R Pools twice attempted to repair the leak at the light, using a sealant which a licensed electrician has subsequently determined was entirely unsuitable for the application. Each time an attempt was made to repair the leak, we had to refill the pool again with salt water from the [redacted], a considerable expense.
As stated previously, we had no faith in R&R Pools following their abortive attempts to address the major leak at the light, not to mention reneging on the undertaking of [redacted] to provide the chemicals at no cost to us in the light of the problems we had experienced.
. We therefore returned the chemicals and concluded that R&R Pools were unwilling to stand behind their work.
The statement that the light was not under warranty is irrelevant. The conduit connection can only have been damaged in the course ofR&Rs work. It would be reasonable to expect that R&R Pools would properly install the liner so that there was no water leakage at any of the penetrations, including the underwater light enclosure and the skimmer flange. Parenthetically, even if the underwater light were still under warranty, the warranty would not cover the damage caused by R&R.
We are seeking reimbursement from from R&R for the cost of repeatedly refilling the pool,proper investigation of the source of the leaks, removal of a section of pool deck and excavation to repair the conduit connection to the pool light, electricians fees for repairing the conduit connection, backfilling and replacing the pavers and repair of the leak at the skimmer plate.
We will forward a copies of the invoices for this work.