Noritz America Corp

[redacted] has reviewed the information internally on this unit per the serial number provided and is willing to review it further.  However, [redacted] would need to inspect the unit to see if there was a manufacturer defect or not.  This would be the only way to determine the root cause of the...

failure.  The initially failure was during an unseasonable cold winter and from our notes the house was not occupied so it is hard to say if the unit was the problem or the power went out for a period of time.  [redacted] did cover the parts at that time due to the fact that the house was not occupied and there is no way to know if the power went out in the home.  If the customer is interested in returning the unit, please respond through the Revdex.com and I will contact them directly on how to return the unit to our testing lab in California.

Noritz would like to review the invoices before a decision is made on how much Noritz will cover. Like stated in previous response Noritz covers only $120 for labor charges within the first year; however after review of the invoices a resolution can be determined.
Please mail or fax invoices to the Technical Service Manager’s attention.
Noritz America Corporation
Attn: Technical Service Manager [redacted] Ave
Fountain Valley, CA [redacted] Or
Fax [redacted] Please include a cover page which includes the following information
Case # [redacted] Model # [redacted] Serial # [redacted]

Communication was made with the homeowner frequently and often during the period of time when the [redacted] heater was still installed.  Once the homeowner acknowledged that the [redacted] product had been pulled, our options became very limited in terms of the assistance we could and would be willing to provide.  [redacted] is sorry that their messages had not been responded to in a more timely manner.

After receiving this Revdex.com complaint Noritz contacted the customer to help resolve the issue. The customer stated that as of July 1st the circuit board that was sent under warranty was not replaced. On July 3rd Noritz contacted the customer and he stated that he did install the circuit board on July...

2nd. The unit seemed to be working correctly. Again on July 7th Noritz contacted the customer to follow up and make sure the unit was working over the holiday weekend. At that time the customer stated it was working correctly.
Every unit is tested before it leaves the factory to make sure they are working correctly, and the Owner’s Guide clearly stated “Installation and service must be performed by a qualified installer, service agency or the gas supplier”. The customer did state that he installed the unit by himself. I do not know if he is a qualified installer or service agency. Unfortunately, proper installation is needed and if something was not done correctly may have cause this problem. We don’t know what exactly happened to cause the issue but the unit is currently working correctly. Normally the warranty covers up to $120 for labor within the first year when installed correctly by a qualified installer or service agency. Noritz is willing to extend the same labor warranty to this customer even though the unit was installed by himself. The customer will just need to send a copy to [redacted] (customer should have his information) and we will cover up to $120 of the labor bill.

Noritz has spoken to the customer and there are 2 different issues that were both installation related.  The first issue was the wiring to the circuit board was done incorrectly.  This caused damage to the circuit board and the control panel.  Those parts were shipped out and...

replaced but the original wiring was not addressed.  Therefore, the problem happened again and parts needed to be shipped out again.  The wiring has been corrected so the new parts should not have the issue.  The second issue is gas pressure to the unit.  This is also an installation issue, when it gets cold more gas is needed and our records state the gas pressure is dropping to below the minimum requirement for the unit. We are working with the customer and gave her direct lines so she or her contractor can call in and get in touch with someone faster.  Unfortunately, our hold times are longer than normal due to the holiday season and the cold weather throughout the country.  We apologize for the long hold time and are doing everything we can to take care of our customers as soon as possible.

Noritz has reviewed the case information after speaking with the customer and gathering the serial number.  There was a question of when the unit was installed, our notes stated that he was not the original owner and after confirming on the internet the house was sold on September 2009. ...

Our warranty does state that the warranty is not valid if not the original owner.  This is why his warranty claim was denied.  However due to the date of manufacture and the homeowner stating they did a remodel to the home shortly after the unit was installed, the timing was very close and was considered similar to a new construction where someone else installs the unit but doesn’t use it and was installed only for sale of home.  With that new information, we have processed out the refund to the customer which will appear on his credit card statement.  This process may take up to a month to complete and the customer sees it on his statement.  However, I also explained and included in the attachments, our water treatment guidelines on how to treat hard water, it is unclear as to which treatment product he installed to prevent scale build up.  It is the customer’s responsibility to have the correct water treatment according to the installation manual to maintain the warranty on the unit.

Noritz has been in contact with the customer and we have come to a resolution to replace the unit and vent system due to the safety issue at the customer's home. However this issue is not a manufacturer defect, it is an environmental issue that needs to be addressed. If it is not, then the same...

problem may occur with the new unit. Noritz will also request that the unit and vent system be return to Noritz for inspection. When the unit is replaced please make sure to contact [redacted] from Noritz (The customer has his email and contact phone number) so he can help get the unit returned to us.

Revdex.com:
I have reviewed the response made by the business in reference to complaint ID [redacted], and have determined that this proposed action would not resolve my complaint.  For your reference, details of the offer I reviewed appear below.
The information provided by [redacted] indicates that [redacted] agreed to replace parts in 1/2011 because it could not be proven if there was a power outage or not so they covered damaged parts due to freeze. That is not accurate. [redacted] only agreed to cover damaged parts from freeze damage after we provided verification from the power company that there were no power outages that affected our area. The problem was due to internal parts failure.
The recent freeze issue occurred in !/2016. Again, there were no power outages at our home during that time period. It is safe to assume that parts failure was once again the problem.
In our letter of 1/28/2016 we outlined in detail all of our issues with the unit that was purchased and installed in 7/30/2008. We paid over $6,300 for "final plumbing" costs at our home and the [redacted] system/installation was a significant part of the cost. We supplied all documents to [redacted] Customer Service for review up to and including the recent freeze issue in 1/2016 that resulted in replacement of the system with a new [redacted] system at a cost of $4,000.
[redacted] representative [redacted] responded on 2/2/16 asking for the serial number so that he could look into the previous issue. The serial number was sent to [redacted] on 2/3/16 and he responded saying that [redacted] does not cover freeze damage and referred to the manual. On 2/4/16 I responded to [redacted]'s email letting him know that [redacted] did cover damage in initial freeze because we verified through our power company that there was no outage that affected our area.
There was no response from [redacted] so 2 calls were placed and messages left asking for a response. Finally on 6/24/16 [redacted] responds saying that [redacted] cannot help because unit was no longer installed at our home.
Now [redacted] has responded through Revdex.com and indicates that they would look into the freeze damage if we ship the unit back to [redacted]. We no longer have this unit .
The responses from [redacted] seem to be a moving target. First it was send the serial number. Then it was [redacted] does not cover freeze damage and then it was [redacted] could not help because we no longer had the unit installed at our home. Now seven months after the fact [redacted] agrees to look into the issue if we ship the old unit to them. If [redacted] needed to have the unit for inspection that should have been determined in the 2/2/2016 email from [redacted].
It appears that [redacted] is not willing to stand behind the product and that is very disappointing. We have paid many thousands of dollars to purchase and then replace a failed product. We would expect the [redacted] company to recognize that this was a failed product and that the consumer deserves some form of credit refund. No one should have to purchase 2 tankless systems within 7 year period.
Thank you for addressing this long outstanding issue. We look forward to your response.
 
Regards
[redacted]
 
We hope that [redacted]
 
 
Regards,
[redacted]

Revdex.com:
I have reviewed the response made by the business in reference to complaint ID [redacted] and have determined that this proposed action would not resolve my complaint.  For your reference, details of the offer I reviewed appear below.
  The installation had nothing to do with the bad unit they sent me, I had two Noritz certified plumbers confirm the installation was correct.  The findings were that they had shipped me a bad unit.  I shouldn't have to spend $500 of my money and time to find out they shipped me a bad unit that I have to repair myself.  This unit plugs into the wall like any appliance, how is it that the installation would create a bad circuit board inside the unit?  Oh that is right in no circumstances would it.  
 
Regards,
[redacted]

Noritz reviewed all the phone calls and the pictures that the customer sent to Noritz.  The unit is doing a 29 Error Code which is a backup of the condensate.  The condensate drain, neutralizer and condensate pump at the customers house is installed by the Installing Plumber.  This line should be done with ½” PVC pipe.  I attached pages from the installation manual with key points highlighted in pink.  The installer had used flexible vinyl tube that bends in a 90-degree bend.  This bend is smaller than ½” and causes the condensate to drain, however it drains to slow and causes the 29 Error Code.  Noritz’s warranty is for manufacture defect and there is not a manufacture defect with the unit.  The problem the customer is having is due to the installation of his condensate drain, neutralizer, and condensate pump.  The customer should contact the original plumber to resolve the issue.  If the plumber has questions on what needs to be done he can call in and reference the call with 2017-024550.  These notes will be in the system.

[redacted] contacted the customer directly via phone this morning, 11/1/17.  Explained that while their water treatment system does not seem to be protecting their [redacted] unit from the effects of scale buildup, it does seem that they have done their due diligence in attempting to protect their tankless unit.  For that reason, their warranty request for new parts has been approved and they will be delivered tomorrow, 11/2/17.  [redacted] also recommended another option (H2Flow) for the customer's water treatment system that has been approved to protect the unit against future scale buildup.

Revdex.com:
I have reviewed the response made by the business in reference to complaint ID [redacted], and have determined that this proposed action would not resolve my complaint.  For your reference, details of the offer I reviewed appear below.
It is my understanding that the warranty does not cover freeze damage issues resulting from "loss of power". That is why we had to provide verification from our power company that there were no interruptions to our electric service that would have resulted in the freeze damage. Only then was the warranty coverage applied in 2011.
When the unit froze in January 2016 we had to have hot water and we had the unit replaced as the most expedient resolution to a big problem. We sent a detailed letter to [redacted] with documents and explanation. We were never asked in any of the email responses from [redacted] to have the unit shipped back to [redacted] for examination. We saved the [redacted] unit for months and finally disposed of it in June.
I take issue with the fact that if the unit is needed now it was also needed when we started this process. None of the emails requested return of the unit.
I recognize that [redacted] wants to resolve this issue and would appreciate some understanding of how this process unfolded. We would have happily sent the failed equipment back to [redacted] for examination in February of 2016 if we had been given that option. However it is unrealistic to expect a homeowner to save damaged equipment for more than seven months after parts failure.
Thank you for addressing our concerns as your customer and as consumers.
Regard,
[redacted]