Obadiah's Woodstoves and Alternative Energy, LLC

To: Revdex.com Online, Attn: ***
I am
replying to a complaint that you received from *** *** that said the
following Complaint Involves: Advertising
Issues
Customer’s Statement:
"line-height:115%,"sans-serif">I received two quotes from the business that showed similar charges
compared to what an online price calculator showedI later received a call
from the salesperson saying their printed price quote was too lowThey said
more equipment was needed, yet no explanation was given as to whyA few days later the principal of the company called to explain
that the quote was based on mounting the burner on the access door if the
lesser price was usedHowever he said that another customer(s) had not liked
this configuration due to excess sooting on the waste oil burnerThis door
configuration is not shown or mentioned on the websiteWhat is shown is that a waste oil burner can be added to a wood only
unit at an acceptable higher cost vs the quotes that was given to meThis legitimate config is the one that I think I should have
been offered but was notI have two price quotes that
show the differences and screen shots of the website that also show the price
optionsSome people would call this scenario bait and switch, however I will
leave this up to you to decide if that is the correct termIt is possible that a salesperson simply made a mistake and
tried to find a way to back out of it with the help of other family members in
the business
Since the
product in question offers many options, I have taken time to review and revise
the information on our website and put together a thorough answerI have
outlined the misconceptions in red letters in Mr***’s above referenced
complaint. I will address these specifically
herein. First, I will give you a short
version of what happened, backed up by facts in the longer version, and as Mr
*** has suggested, you be the judge
The
*** boiler that Mr*** is referring to that he originally requested a
quote on is shown on our website here***
We offer
wood fired boilers that have several different options, you can order the
boiler to burn wood, or wood/coal, or wood/oil, or wood/waste oil, or
wood/biomass.
Short
Version:
1. We made a mistake and priced the
correct boiler from the beginning but forgot to add in the waste oil burner. Instead, we priced the 7030M Wood/Oil Boiler
which burns fuel oil, not waste oil. We
provided this information to Mr***, contrary to what he claims
2. Our Website shows the 7030M as a
Wood/Oil at $which is what he was quoted in the first quoteThe Waste Oil
Burner is clearly shown as an “Option” and this is what was missed in our
original quote by ***
3. Mr*** refuses to acknowledge
this explanation and our efforts to make an adjustment to the price.
4. We have tried to be reasonable with
Mr*** and compensate him for our mistake, but that was not satisfactory;
he believes he is entitled to more than our admitting we made a mistake,
adjusting the price and offering an extra discount for his inconvenience
5. Mr*** had two options to burn
wood and waste oil in a *** Boiler The and 7030M. The M means a separate combustion chamber
mounted to the rear of the wood combustion chamber, which also has an internal
door between the two combustion chambers isolating them when the wood is
burning. This door slides open when the
oil burner is usedOn a waste oil configuration we change out the fuel oil
burner for the waste oil burner and add an additional door so the waste oil
burner can be opened and the soot cleaned out easily.
Configuration
#Waste oil burner mounted to a separate combustion chamber allowing the user
to burn wood and/or waste oil. This is the more expensive of the two
options
Configuration
#2. Waste oil burner mounted in the firebox loading door. This
configuration changes the *** boiler from a wood burning boiler to a waste
oil burning boiler eliminating the possibility of burning wood and /or oil
automatically. This is the cheaper of the two options and is no longer being offered
6.
As the dialogue developed
further, it became apparent that
Mr
*** wanted Configuration #but at the price of Configuration #2. As a
result of efforts to explain why he needs #rather than #and why #
is more expensive than #2, some confusion developed in his
understanding. His conclusions in the Revdex.com report are a result of this
confusion and unfortunately my explanation did not convince him that just
because he thinks he deserves it for free, we have to oblige. Our website
is clear that the Waste Oil Burner is an option
7.
See the attached emails of our correspondence.
It is disappointing for us to have this type of misunderstanding happen and so we
have changed the pricing and information on our website to rectify this The bottom line is that Mr*** wants the privilege
to set his price and expects us to accommodate him. If you follow the
thread of emails that will follow herein, I believe that this is apparent by
his correspondence with Obadiah’s
Long
Version Explanation and Corresponding Emails
There are
two ways that one could burn waste oil in this boiler. The first and least expensive option is to
add a waste oil burner to the front door of a wood burner and share the same
fireboxSeveral of our competitors have their boilers set up this wayThis
set up requires that you remove all the wood from the firebox and ash when you
want to burn oil instead of wood, otherwise the nozzle will plug with ash and
not burn cleanlyFor our customers that have winter homes and summer homes,
this is not a problem. They run on wood
while they are there and when they go to Florida for the winter, they run the
waste oil system and do not switch back and forth This saves them money
Some of our
customers would rather have the ability to switch back and forth without having
to do anythingThey prefer to have two thermostats and the boiler
automatically switches back and forthThey can fill the boiler with wood and
leave for work, if something happens and they can’t get back home in time to
manually reload the wood, the boiler will automatically open a door between the
wood firebox and the oil firebox, the oil burner with then automatically fire
and the boiler will begin heating the structure. This requires the manufacturer to build the
boiler with two separate fireboxes and a special door in-between the two that
opens automatically when the oil burner fires This is an expensive extra step in
manufacturing of the boiler and adds to the cost we must charge for this option
Picture of
7030M Oil and Wood *** Boiler $7700, (this unit burns fuel oils shown with
attached Becket fuel oil burner)
Waste Oil
Burner Option is $(but because the 7030M comes with a Becket Fuel Oil
Burner we would give you back a credit of $off the $cost for the Waste
Oil Burner, for a total of $2300)A Waste Oil Burner is a much heavier and
more complicated burner as waste oil is much thicker and has many more variables
compared to refined fuel oils, so these burners require pre-heating the oil and
complicated nozzles to operate dependably*** also makes just waste oil
boilers and are one of the leaders in this field ***
Pictured
below shows the optional waste oil burner system showing all the additional
steps that a waste oil burner must employ to work properlyWaste oil is
heavier and requires a special pump and a preheater to warm the oil so it is
thin enough to go through the nozzle. We
replace the Beckett burner with this unit and mount it to a special door so it
can be opened and cleaned for regular maintenance as all waste oil burners burn
dirtier than fuel oil burners and create soot
Pricing for
Wood and 7030M Wood/Oil Combination Boiler
Wood
*** Boiler is $5200, Add Waste Oil Option $Total $(Shares one
firebox, not automatic)7030M Wood/Oil *** Boiler is $7700, Add Waste Oil
Option $2900, we credit back $for Beckett Burner equals $2300, which gives you a total of $10,for a 7030M
Automated Waste Oil Boiler that will burn both wood and waste oil
***
Boiler Type
Prices
(Wood Only)
$5,
7030P (Wood and Coal)
$6,
7030M (Wood and Oil)
$7,
7030PM (Wood, Coal and Oil)
$8,
Optional Accessories
Hot Water Coil
$
Insulation Panels
&7030P**
$
Waste Oil Burner for 7030M
&7030PM
$2,
Boiler Type
Prices
(Wood Only)
$6,
7040P (Wood and Coal)
$7,
7040M (Wood and Oil)
$8,
7040PM (Wood, Coal, and Oil)
$9,
Optional Accessories
Biomass Attachment
$8,
Hot water Coil
$
Insulation Panels for &
7040P**
$
Waste Oil Burner 7040M &
7040PM
$2,
Wood
*** Boiler is $6200, Add Waste Oil Option $Total $(Shares one firebox,
not automatic)7040M Wood/Oil *** Boiler is $8700, Add Waste Oil Option
$2900, we credit back $for Beckett Burner equals $2300, which gives you a total of $11,for an Automated 7040M
Waste Oil Boiler that will burn both wood and waste oil
On 9/26/
Mr*** sent an email to our company requesting information on a
*** Boiler with Waste Oil option for $which was the correct priceHe
wanted “the best quote” delivered to his addressMy wife *** provided a
quote as requested
On 9/26/8:PM, *** *** wrote:
Dear ***,
Would like to talk about the with a waste oil
option for $8100. Please give me your best quote to get the unit to me
at:
*** * ***
*** *** **
*** ** ***
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***
Hello ***,
Thank you for your inquiry on the Glennwood boiler. Our price is as
follows:
$7700 Glennwood model 7030M
includes Waste
Oil Option and Insulated panels
$ Shipping
$8158 Total delivered price
*** ***
Obadiah’s Woodstoves
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***
***
***
View our extensive video library:
***
Please Note:
I am also a
professional firefighter and I fight wildfires all over the United States*** Normally my daughter
*** and I handle all boiler calls, however on this day I was not in the
office but dispatched to fight a wildfire and we were extremely busy this time
of year, so my wife *** handled this email request for a price on a w/ waste oil burner when it came in The Quote my wife provided was in error as she mistakenly quoted a
*** 7030M which is a wood/fuel oil boiler and not a waste oil boiler. When I called Mr***, I offered to honor
this mistake and provide him with a waste oil boiler that he originally
requested in his email at $for $and take a $lossThis option was
not acceptable to Mr*** as he wanted the *** 7030M listed at $and
the $waste oil option which would total $10,for $at a loss of
$to Obadiah’sI explained that this was not being reasonable and not what
Mr*** had originally requested a quote for a and not a 7030M which is
pretty clear in his original email He
claimed that because we had two prices for the waste oil option $and $
we were being deceptive and baiting and switching. I tried to explain to him that we were in
fact trying to accommodate some customers did not need an automated system for
$10,and save them money by offering thisWe have now discontinued the less
expensive optionSince Mr*** did not agree with our offer of resolution, he
chose to bring forth this complaintAfter yrsof servicing our customers
from all over the world and never once having a single complaint against us, I
am totally baffled at the rationality that Mr*** has here He mentioned to me several times that he was
looking for the best deal possible and I can only conclude that this is his way
to try to get me to give in to him
The further email
communications I have included that my wife *** and daughter *** had with
Mr*** explain everything in full Please read them carefully and judge for
yourselfAs you can see now, Mr*** is asking here for a larger
boiler and showing obvious concern for the waste oil burner getting plugged up
This tells me he has done his research and is not without knowledge concerning
his options
On 9/29/9:PM, *** *** wrote:
Thank you ***, you can help answer a couple of
questions. If I order a 7040, would it be approximately an additional
$as the pricing sheet says, or $9158? (Perhaps some extra shipping
for the extra weight.) When you say ‘automatic’, I assume this means that
as the wood burns down, the waste oil burner kicks in, without any owner
interaction. Right? Since the waste oil burner
and the wood burner share the same firebox, can this lead to potential damage
to the oil orifice when the wood is loaded? Is there some way to protect
the waste oil orifice?
Thank you
I will fill out your chimney survey when I have more time
***
From: Obadiah's Woodstoves [mailto:***]
Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 11:PM
To: *** ***
Subject: Re: Boiler wanted
Hi ***,
I posed your questions to *** and here is the reply. Please let me
know if I can be of further assistance. (I am checking on the price
for you)
With the 7040M series , we have a cap that
closes off the end of the burner tube. This cap is opened and closed by a
rotary actuator. Here is how the process works. Let's say for
instance the desired water temperature in the boiler is degrees. The
draft blower mounted on the front door, maintains the water temperature at this
setpoint as long as there is sufficient wood or coal in the firebox. When
the wood/coal burns out, the water temperature will drop in the boiler to
degrees. At this point, the front draft blower shuts off and the boiler
automatically switches over to oil back-up. The actuator begins to open
the cap. Once the cap is completely opened, the a switch in the actuator
closes and fires the burner. The burner will then maintain the water
temperature at degrees until wood or coal is put back into the
firebox. We do have a override switch on the draft blower to allow it to
run below degrees if the owner so desires. However, the burner must
be turned off to keep the draft blower and burner from running
simultaneously. To keep the actuator and combustion chamber free of
cresote build up, the owner should allow the burner to run for a little about
once a month
The waste oil burners are
mounted on a swing out door to make servicing the nozzle, retention head, and
electrodes easier. The regular heating oil burners do not have a swing
out door
Is this sufficiently helpful?
From: *** *** [mailto:***]
Sent: Tuesday, April 21, 11:AM
To: 'Obadiah's Woodstoves'
Subject: RE: Boiler wanted
***,
I am sort of disappointed that the costs are so high. When I was working with *** just last September she
quoted a to me with insulated panels and list price discounts for much
less money than your quotes. I would like a
comparable deal on a which should be easier for you to do now since the
heating season is over. I think to match the previous quote it would be
$off of the list price
See the email exchange I had with *** that is below
Also, the new quote that you mentioned in today’s email wasn’t
attached
***
*** K ***
*** *** **
*** ** ***
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***
From: sales
[mailto:***]
Sent: Tuesday, April 21, 12:PM
To: '*** ***'
Subject: RE: Boiler wanted
Hello ***,
I apologize for all the confusionI hope our telephone
conversation helped to clarify the pricing discrepanciesTo clarify our phone conversation, in order to burn both waste oil
and wood, you need to purchase the wood/oil combo unit, which includes the
insulated panelsThe beckett oil burner is replaced with the waste oil burner
If you purchase the wood only unit, with the waste oil option, you will not be
able to burn wood, but only waste oilThe insulated panels are an additional
option for the wood only unit I have sent you a revised estimate to
include the wood/oil combo with a waste oil burnerI have also attached
further documentation on the *** units, to help further your knowledge on
the *** unitsPlease let me know if
you have any further questions or concernsThank you for the opportunity to be
of service to you
Sincerely,
*** ***
###-###-#### direct line
From: ***
*** [mailto:***]
Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 4:AM
To: ***; ***
Subject: RE:
*** wood/waste oil combo & chimney Estimate from Obadiah's
***,
I have gone from being convinced that Obadiah’s was the answer
to finding the best product on the market, to now looking at other
manufacturers once again. Both you and *** initially priced the wood
only model with a waste oil option and did not insist that it needed to be a
wood/oil model; likewise the website also shows this as feasible to order in
this fashion. As I explained yesterday, I
do not think that the double costs of both the oil aand the waste oil
aare justified. Even if the
change out of the orifice, the added insulation panels, and added swinging
service door are considered, the additional $is still too high. I
would be paying an added $4,which would be more than buying a separate
free-standing unit. I think that the fair way to
price these options is exactly what is shown on the internet: the wood
only at $6200, the insulated panels at $and the waste oil at $2900. To say that the addition of the waste oil option to the
wood only would only allow the burning of waste oil and not wood, means that
your products are misrepresented as they are shown on the internet.
Also, why is the rotary actuator that John mentioned even needed if this is the
case?
Lastly, I still think that you should be able to offer discounts on
these products. Your $consideration is appreciated as a kind gesture,
but does not really go far enough
***
*** * ***
*** *** **
*** ** ***
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***
At this
stage, I personally contacted Mr*** and explained to him again that he had
an optionIt was either wood, or waste oil, not both simultaneously and automatically. To achieve the ability to burn both fuels and
switch between them automatically, he would have to spend the extra money and
purchase the separate firebox on the 7030M or the 7040M and add the waste oil
burnerMr*** said he understood that but insisted that I give him the
upgrade to the M series for free I
offered to honor his original quote for a with waste oil option at a $
loss to Obadiah’s. Mr*** indicated
that was not satisfactory as he expects us to give him a $10,boiler for
$because he thinks that would be fair and would better fit his budget.
Once again,
we do apologize for the original mis-quote and lack of detailed explanations on
our website. We have updated our website
to clarify the options offered and have extended a courtesy discount to Mr
***, which he has declined. Please
contact me if you should have any questions or concerns
Woody ***
Obadiah’s