Initial Business Response /* (1000, 9, 2016/11/02) */
RE: Case ID # [redacted]
Dear: Mrs. [redacted]
This response is in reference to the letter received from your office dated October 25th, 2016 concerning the Prowler 272LX VIN # 5SFPB3025HEXXXXXX for [redacted]. This...
unit was purchased on August 27th, 2016 from Dad's Camper Outlet with a one year warranty. Heartland EV received a call from the customer on October 21st in regards to us approving to have the unit repaired by her dealer. She was unhappy that Heartland was not replacing the unit, but instead repairing the unit. We explained to her that per our warranty policy Heartland RV will repair defects related to the manufacturing the unit. Heartland RV has approved the repairs to the dealer and we will work with the dealer to repair her unit. Heartland RV will decline the customer's request to replace the unit. Attached is a copy of warranty policy for reference.
Sincerely,
[redacted]
Heartland Customer Service
Initial Consumer Rebuttal /* (3000, 11, 2016/11/02) */
(The consumer indicated he/she DID NOT accept the response from the business.)
I didn't buy a refurbished camper. Less then 30 days not months later.
Initial Business Response /* (1000, 6, 2016/12/14) */
December 5, 2016
[redacted]
Dispute Resolution Services Revdex.com [redacted]
Fort Wayne, IN XXXXX
RE: Case ID [redacted] - [redacted] Dear: Mrs. [redacted]
This response is in reference to the letter...
received from your office dated December 5, 2016 concerning Mr. [redacted]'s 2016 BH 3875FB registered under VIN 5SFBG4122GEXXXXXX.
On August 29, 2016 we had been contacted by the servicing dealer requesting we bring the Big Horn back to Heartland facilities to complete repairs due to a water leak in the slide out area. Heartland agreed to their request stating the unit would be scheduled in for service on October 31" and it would be picked up one week prior to the scheduled date.
The unit was brought into our service facility on the scheduled date of October 31" in order to assess the damages due to the water leak and determine what items needed to be repaired. In that assessment we found that several cabinets in the slide out area were needed to be replaced along with the sofa.
To this date our records indicate we have been keeping Mr. [redacted] up to date throughout the process and will continue to do so until we have the repairs finalized, inspected, and then returned back to Mr. [redacted] as soon as possible. We feel that we have met our responsibilities concerning warranty therefor would respectfully decline Mr. [redacted]'s request for additional compensation.
Sincerely,
Initial Business Response /* (12210, 5, 2016/10/21) */
RE Case ID 26068056 [redacted]
Dear: Mrs. [redacted]
This response is in reference to the letter received from your office dated October 17th, 2016 concerning the Pioneer DS310 VIN #5SFPB3521GEXXXXXX. This unit was purchased on May...
19th, 2015 from Camping World RV Sales in Little Rock, AR with a one year warranty. Mr. [redacted] contact Heartland RV on September 8th, 2016 in regards to a leak issue with his RV. The unit was currently at a local dealer being inspected. We requested that they send us information on their findings as the cause of the leak for us to review. Upon review of the information from the dealer we determined that the exterior sealant had not been maintained on the unit. Per our owner's guide we recommend that the exterior sealants being inspected every 90 days and touched-up or resealed as needed. I have included a copy of the maintenance schedule form our owner's guide detailing exterior sealant maintenance . In our conversations with Mr. [redacted] he stated to us that his had not been done. Based off the information received both from the servicing dealer and the customer this would fall under customer maintenance. Heartland RV will respectfully decline the request for warranty coverage.
Sincerely,
[redacted]
Heartland Customer Service
Initial Consumer Rebuttal /* (3000, 11, 2016/10/31) */
I spoke with you on the phone yesterday. I can not find the link to respond to heartland RV.
My trailer was not purchased in Little Rock Arkansas. We bought it from camping world in buffalo NY. We looked at the trailer Memorial Day weekend in may of 2015. We took delivery of it in June. I also called heartland RV for the first time regarding this issue the morning of August 22nd. They told me to make an appointment with the selling dealer. Camping world had a two week wait. I dropped the trailer off on September 5th (Labor Day, the dealer was open) I called heartland to let them know it was there and the dealer would be sending photos. The dealer didn't send photos till Monday the 12th due to the warranty employee being on vacation.
Initial Business Response /* (1000, 5, 2017/12/15) */
This response is in reference to the letter received from your office dated December 11, 2017 concerning the North Peak 29Bh V1N # [redacted]. This unit was purchased on July 16th, 2016 from [redacted] with a one year warranty.
Mr. [redacted] was...
contacted by our service team in regards to scheduling an appointment for his unit to be serviced at Heartland's service center. This contact was made after discussing the issues with [redacted]. Based on that conversation it was determined the best course to address the concerns Mr. [redacted] had was to have the unit come to our service center. At that point, our service team contacted him to arrange an appointment date for service at our location. Heartland RV agreed to transport the unit to our facility and once completed we requested Mr. [redacted] come to pick-up. This offer was made so, that we could go over each repair that was done in person and answer any questions that he may have. We spoke to Mr. [redacted] on 11/10/17 and obtained his email information to send out standard release form to him. This form allows us to transport the unit to our facility and also, allows us to work on the unit.
After, receiving the release form Mr. [redacted] had questions about the form along with how long we would have the unit and what repairs we would be performing. I reached out to the customer to answer questions he had in regards to the release form and repairs. His concern was with our clause in regards to personal belongings being removed from the unit and the holding tanks being emptied. On the form it does state if unit is emptied we charge $500 and if the tanks need to be emptied there is a $200 charge for that. This is to prevent our service techs from having to stop working to remove items from the unit so, they can complete the necessary repairs. Below is the statement we have on our release form in regards to these two items.
Failure to empty personal belongings resulting in HRV emptying will result in a $500.00 charge which is payable upon delivery inspection. The unit must be emptied of aft personal belongings as Heartland RV cannot be held responsible for items left inside the coach, this includes fire arms, weapons and all prescription drugs. mtv does not provide secure storage for personal items or items that are not factory installed. Any such items that are left in the unit and are lost as a result are not the responsibility of 'IRV.- All holding tanks must be emptied before repair regardless of repair type. Failure to empty tanks will result in a charge to you of $200.00 which is payable to IIRV upon delivery. All units returned to the factory between the dates of 10-1 and 4-1 will need to be winterized by the customer or dealership.
These are on the form to protect the customer from anything being lost or damaged should it be left in the unit. In regards to the holding tanks we ask they be emptied to prevent any damages occurring in transit due to traveling with contents in them. We recommend that the holding tanks be empty while traveling. This is the statement in the owner's guide for our units. The tanks should be emptied frequently, or as indicated on the monitor panel and especially before travel.
Heartland RV is willing to work with Mr. [redacted] to address the current concerns he has with his RV. All that is needed is for him to sign and return the form to us. Once we receive that we can set the appointment date that will work for him and Heartland. We will schedule the unit to be picked-up a week prior to the appointment date. Once we have the unit here we would inspect determine a course of action and then we would be able to let Mr. [redacted] know a time line for when the repairs would be completed. Heartland RV will respectfully decline his request to buy his unit back.
Initial Consumer Rebuttal /* (3000, 7, 2017/12/21) */
(The consumer indicated he/she DID NOT accept the response from the business.)
The standard release agreement is unreasonable as has been the quality of the product and service received. Please note the release agreement is referred to as "standard." Are there non-standard release agreements? I propose the $500 charge to remove personal belongings is excessive and does not protect the customer. Clauses already exist that "release" Heartland RV from liability. Reference the statement immediately following the $500 charge: "Heartland RV cannot be held responsible for items left inside the coach...HRV does not provide secure storage for personal items or items that are not factory installed. Any such items that are left in the unit and are lost as a result are not the responsibility of HRV."
The justification for charging $200 is now to "prevent any damages occurring in transit". This is not mentioned in the release agreement. The statement cited from the Owner's Manual says "tanks 'should' be emptied...especially before transport." Possible damage was not cited from the manual nor is emptying the tanks a "must" per the manual citation, just "should". On page 59, the manual states "Don't travel with full holding tanks." Under Holding Tank Maintenance, adding "10 gallons to each tank for the trip home" is recommended to help flush monitor probes. With 40-gallon tanks, the manual suggests traveling with 25% full tanks.
Charging $200 after the camper arrives does not prevent damage. The release agreement neither implies nor provides for Heartland RV emptying the tanks. No clause is given, other than the customer will be charged if the tanks are not empty. Citing the same reference used by Mr. Roberts from the Owner's Manual, "or as indicated on the monitor panel," has proven to not be accurate. Take for example the fresh water tank. The observed level changed with respect to time without awareness of a leak. At point A, t0, the level was L2. At point B, t1, the level was L1, where L2>L1 and t1=t2 + delta(t). Also, due to sensitivity and inaccuracies in the tank level system in both fill and empty directions, observation has noted for all tanks the level status light to flicker and/or dwell between states. Moving the camper and not exactly leveling each time may produce different readings. Observation has revealed the level gauge to be unreliable for repeatable accuracy. Beginning from a physically observed and drained tank, the black tank level as observed from the monitor panel, has been noted to advance unreasonably quickly to the full status with minimal use. If the tank is "emptied" to below the 1/3 tank threshold so only the "E" light was illuminated, would this meet the Heartland RV Service Release Agreement for empty tanks. If not, what is the correct definition of "empty" if the Owner's Manual is incorrect, or misleading, and inaccuracies in the Monitor Panel could cost $200? There is no clarity on this in the release agreement.
In Section 1 of the Heartland RV Limited Warranty, Heartland claims it warrants "the recreational vehicle manufactured and assembled by Heartland RV shall be free from defects in material and/or workmanship supplied and attributed to Heartland RV in the construction of the recreational vehicle." To date, Heartland RV in association with [redacted] has attempted to make cheap band aids the elegant solution for repairing defects. Contained within the Heartland RV Limited Warranty, "defect" means "the failure of the unit and/or the materials used to assemble the unit to conform to Heartland's design and manufacturing specifications and tolerances." Heartland has not provided a copy of, nor referenced, manufacturing specifications and tolerances. I need to know if the decisions to date have been in accordance with said documents.
Another issue in the release agreement not addressed by Mr. Roberts is the clause where the customer is forced to agree to accept repairs based on "the customer's reasonable expectations." Who decides if the customer's expectations are reasonable? Is it reasonable to assume that all defects will be repaired or replaced to manufacturing specifications and tolerances as called out in the Warranty? If the assumption is reasonable, then let's put that in writing as part of the agreement. Again, what are those specifications as a basis and what tolerance is permitted? Are one or two recurring leaks OK because it is a tolerance. Is it OK to have falling off door strut brackets because that's the way it was designed and therefore meets the original specifications? Is it OK to keep adding more and bigger screws? Are structural integrity and fatigue considered? Design and manufacturing specifications and tolerances are generally in writing as part of build records. It seems most of the corrective actions should receive "Yes" or "No" answers for at least meeting said specifications and tolerances if they exist.
Regarding the entry door, since Lippert Components said [redacted] damaged the door and would not cover the claim, then [redacted] must have voided the warranty on the component in the few weeks right after purchase when they attempted repair of the defective entry door. Per the release agreement, "In the event that needed repairs are not the result of a manufacturing defect but rather a cause of dealer or retail influence, liability for repairs and expenses will be discussed prior to work being performed. Any charges incurred will be due prior to HRV releasing the unit." We have in writing the statement from LCI that it was not a defect but damage by [redacted]. As a result, we have immediate cause for discussion of this item. I was not informed at the time of damage caused by the original dealer and approved by warranty. Since [redacted] damaged the door, process suggests Heartland RV will not participate in warranty coverage of the door, especially since it has already been denied through the warranty process. Will Heartland RV invoice [redacted] for a new door with matching graphics? Since [redacted] voided the warranty by damaging the door, they covered up the action leaving me without a warranted door since soon after purchase unbeknownst to me until recent. Is there a specification and tolerance for the quantity, location, and size fasteners acceptable for attaching the door strut brackets? What is the specification and tolerance for the door angle when open?
Regarding removal of the original TV, how would this be handled? The TV mount was relocated to accommodate irregularity in TV mounts between the original and new TV. Extra holes were drilled in both the wall and the TV mount. This left visible holes. The TCL TV, purchased by the local [redacted] at a big box store, was not centered. The TV is crooked and contacted the perimeter of the recess causing damage before even leaving [redacted] of London. The 2017 TV model displays fewer channels in full screen than before. A 2010 LG model using the same source with a splitter for testing takes half the time to search channels and displays significantly more channels in full screen. Manual display options such as zoom are unfit. The user interface is not friendly. You have removed a better TV and replaced it with a worse TV. The DVD intermittent video signal was one of the original issues found immediately after purchase. [redacted] failed to fix it the first time as the same exact symptoms occurred after the service. Before the service at [redacted] of London, the original TV was not an issue. After the service, the TV is an issue as well as the loss of all three speaker zones powered by the iRV Technologies unit when TV Audio is selected. Heartland RV warranty already placed a number on this repair the second time, $200, according to the HRV Warranty Detail. The unit was not fixed right the first time, but I am penalized the second time even though it had the same defects. Is this item considered fixed correctly?
[redacted] of London sprayed black paint on the kingpin box for unknown reasons, particularly obscuring important placards relevant to the safe operation and identification of the camper. Clearly, this was not done by the factory as this was noted after service at [redacted]. How will this be addressed since it was not a factory defect?
The deep cut mark on the solid surface countertop was not a factory defect but courtesy of [redacted] of London. How would this be addressed?
What are your thoughts on the "more and bigger" screws each of the two times the awning track was addressed? Were these approved actions by warranty? Is there a tolerance and spacing for how many screws are acceptable in the exterior to fasten the awning?
Is just removing the broken head of the subfloor to trailer frame fastener the correct repair? The floor flexes and squeaks in the vicinity now. A bump is left in the linoleum. Does this structural failure meet specifications?
Thank you in advance for answering all my questions prior to committing to a release agree
Final Business Response /* (4000, 9, 2017/12/29) */
This response is in reference to the letter received from your office dated December 22, 2017 concerning the North Peak 29Bh YIN # [redacted].
Heartland RV and Mr. [redacted] are unable to come to an agreement on returning the unit to our facility for repairs. Therefore we would direct Mr. [redacted] to find a local service center that is willing to perform the needed repairs. Once he finds one we request they contact us with an estimate to perform the needed repairs for review. We will work with that servicer to address the current issues that Mr. [redacted] has with his RV. The offer made to return the unit back to Heartland for repairs will no longer be extended to Mr. [redacted].
Final Consumer Response /* (4200, 11, 2018/01/06) */
(The consumer indicated he/she DID NOT accept the response from the business.)
As an owner/consumer of a Heartland RV product, I have directed questions concerning service and process to the manufacturer. It is with much disappointment that Heartland RV, subsidiary of Thor Industries, Inc., has been unwilling to provide a level a support and quality product that should be associated with a reputable business.
Thor Industries, Inc., on its website page "Meet the Companies," (verified/copy on file 1/6/2018) claims Heartland RV "is among the finest RV manufacturers in the nation, offering a broad variety of brands known for their quality, innovation, and value." My experience proves this is not true as quality is poor, just as support for the product.
I thank the Revdex.com for its assistance in attempting to resolve the many issues with my Heartland RV North Peak 29BH and the poor level of customer service and past disappointing warranty decisions from Heartland RV.
Initial Business Response /* (1000, 6, 2017/01/30) */
See attachment of company's response.
Initial Consumer Rebuttal /* (3000, 13, 2017/02/13) */
RE: Case ID [redacted] and [redacted]
Dear: Mrs. [redacted]
This response is in reference to the letter received from your...
office dated January 20th, 2017 concerning VIN 5SSFPB3521HEXXXXXX Prowler BHS purchased on 7/27/2016 from Camping World in Syracuse, NY. In review of the information that has been submitted by Mr. & Mrs. [redacted]. Our records show that all warranty claims that have been submitted to Heartland have been approved. If the customers have existing issues related to the manufacturing of the unit that need addressed. We would direct them to make an appointment with their selling dealer or local servicer to have these looked at. We will work with the dealer or servicer to correct issues related to the manufacturing of the unit under warranty. Heartland RV will respectfully decline the request to replace the camper with a new one. We will work per or warranty agreement with customer and repair issues related to the manufacturing of the unit.
Sincerely,
[redacted]
Heartland Customer Service
So called resolution provided clearly does not address the seriousness of the manufacturing defect, claimed to have been "fixed" by the dealer and their service department. This recent service, third time transporting unit to dealer 60 miles away, was now end of the season in New York. Now in winter storage since the last repair, no way to confirm if this third attempt was successful. According to the dealer the problem found was related to sealing of exterior protecting unit from normal wet weather. Without doubt once this unit left the manufacturers building, wall and floor cavities were exposed to reoccurring water leakage. Conditions as described often result in serious health issues due to life threating mold growth.
From the resolution provided, demonstrating no interest to satisfactorily address the major issue, one might believe Heartland, the manufacturer, is not receiving accurate and complete information from the dealer.
Initial Business Response /* (1000, 5, 2016/08/24) */
[redacted]
Heartland RV Customer Service
[redacted]
Elkhart, 1N XXXXX
August 18, 2016
[redacted]
Dispute Resolution Services Revdex.com
[redacted]
Fort Wayne, IN XXXXX
RE: Case ro [redacted]...
[redacted] Dear: Mrs. [redacted] AUG X X XXXX
This response is in reference to the letter received from your office dated August 17th, 2016 concerning the Gateway 3400SE VIN 11 5SFSG3725GEXXXXXX. This unit was purchased on July 24th, 2015 from [redacted] Couch's RV with a one year warranty.
After reviewing the information submitted by Mr. [redacted] and our records. We do show that the items he is referencing we noted with us prior to the warranty expiring. Heartland RV will honor and cover those items that were submitted to us Camping World in Missouri. These items have been approved on the claim they submitted. The customer will need to call Camping World to arrange to have them repaired.
[redacted]
Heartland Customer Service
[redacted] Elkhart
Initial Consumer Rebuttal /* (3000, 7, 2016/08/24) */
(The consumer indicated he/she DID NOT accept the response from the business.)
E-mail sent to [redacted] within a month after purchased.
unit also went to Olathe RV kitchen slideout gears slipping, not fixed. took to camping world in 1st part of June Camping world believed gear pack bad, Heartland RV denied claim to camping world, also denied left landing jack creaking runs slow
Final Business Response /* (4000, 9, 2016/08/31) */
August 25, 2016
[redacted]
Dispute Resolution Services Revdex.com
[redacted]
Fort Wayne, IN XXXXX
RE: Case ID [redacted] Dear: Mrs. [redacted]
This response is in reference to the letter received from your office dated August 25th, 2016 concerning the Gateway 3400SE VINT # 5SFSG3725GEXXXXXX. This unit was purchased on July 24th, 2015 from [redacted] Couch's RV with a one year warranty.
Heartland RV as stated in the first letter will honor the items that were noted. The claim that was submitted by Camping World in Missouri has been reopened and approved. The customer will need to call them and arrange an appointment to have the items repaired.
Initial Business Response /* (1000, 5, 2016/07/27) */
Anthony Roberts
Heartland RV Customer Service
[redacted] Drive
[redacted] IN XXXXX
July 21st, 2016
[redacted]
Dispute Resolution Services Revdex.com
[redacted]
Fort Wayne, IN XXXXX
RE: Case ID [redacted]...
[redacted] Dear: Mrs. [redacted]
This response is in reference to the letter received from your office dated July 20th, 2016 concerning the Trailrunner 300DKVIN #5SFEB3322DEXXXXXX. This unit was purchased on December 2012 from
Crossroads RV Sales in Newfield, NJ with a one year warranty.
Mr. [redacted] contacted Heartland RV on July 18th an issue with a leak in his slide room due to the seals. It was explained to Mr. [redacted] that seals and exterior sealants are a customer maintenance item. Along with that his unit went out of warranty on 12/11/2013. The customer also emailed in to us on July 19th with the same inquiry and looking for coverage from us for the leak issue. We explained to him again that the seals and exterior sealants are a customer maintenance item. We declined his request for assistance again at that time.
In the Heartland RV owner's guide it lists out a maintenance schedule for the customers to follow. For seals and exterior sealants we recommend the customer inspect them every 90 days. We make this recommendation to help prevent issues like Mr. [redacted] is experiencing with water infiltration. have enclosed copies of that maintenance schedule from our owner's guide.
Heartland RV will respectfully decline Mr. [redacted]'s request for assistance in repairing this issue. Sincerely,
[redacted]
Heartland Customer Service
Initial Business Response /* (1000, 9, 2016/11/02) */
RE: Case ID # [redacted]
Dear: Mrs. [redacted]
This response is in reference to the letter received from your office dated October 25th, 2016 concerning the Prowler 272LX VIN # 5SFPB3025HEXXXXXX for [redacted]. This...
unit was purchased on August 27th, 2016 from Dad's Camper Outlet with a one year warranty. Heartland EV received a call from the customer on October 21st in regards to us approving to have the unit repaired by her dealer. She was unhappy that Heartland was not replacing the unit, but instead repairing the unit. We explained to her that per our warranty policy Heartland RV will repair defects related to the manufacturing the unit. Heartland RV has approved the repairs to the dealer and we will work with the dealer to repair her unit. Heartland RV will decline the customer's request to replace the unit. Attached is a copy of warranty policy for reference.
Sincerely,
[redacted]
Heartland Customer Service
Initial Consumer Rebuttal /* (3000, 11, 2016/11/02) */
(The consumer indicated he/she DID NOT accept the response from the business.)
I didn't buy a refurbished camper. Less then 30 days not months later.
Initial Business Response /* (1000, 6, 2016/12/14) */
December 5, 2016
[redacted]
Dispute Resolution Services Revdex.com [redacted]
Fort Wayne, IN XXXXX
RE: Case ID [redacted] - [redacted] Dear: Mrs. [redacted]
This response is in reference to the letter...
received from your office dated December 5, 2016 concerning Mr. [redacted]'s 2016 BH 3875FB registered under VIN 5SFBG4122GEXXXXXX.
On August 29, 2016 we had been contacted by the servicing dealer requesting we bring the Big Horn back to Heartland facilities to complete repairs due to a water leak in the slide out area. Heartland agreed to their request stating the unit would be scheduled in for service on October 31" and it would be picked up one week prior to the scheduled date.
The unit was brought into our service facility on the scheduled date of October 31" in order to assess the damages due to the water leak and determine what items needed to be repaired. In that assessment we found that several cabinets in the slide out area were needed to be replaced along with the sofa.
To this date our records indicate we have been keeping Mr. [redacted] up to date throughout the process and will continue to do so until we have the repairs finalized, inspected, and then returned back to Mr. [redacted] as soon as possible. We feel that we have met our responsibilities concerning warranty therefor would respectfully decline Mr. [redacted]'s request for additional compensation.
Sincerely,
[redacted] Elkhart, IN XXXXX
Phone [redacted]
Initial Business Response /* (12210, 5, 2016/10/21) */
RE Case ID 26068056 [redacted]
Dear: Mrs. [redacted]
This response is in reference to the letter received from your office dated October 17th, 2016 concerning the Pioneer DS310 VIN #5SFPB3521GEXXXXXX. This unit was purchased on May...
19th, 2015 from Camping World RV Sales in Little Rock, AR with a one year warranty. Mr. [redacted] contact Heartland RV on September 8th, 2016 in regards to a leak issue with his RV. The unit was currently at a local dealer being inspected. We requested that they send us information on their findings as the cause of the leak for us to review. Upon review of the information from the dealer we determined that the exterior sealant had not been maintained on the unit. Per our owner's guide we recommend that the exterior sealants being inspected every 90 days and touched-up or resealed as needed. I have included a copy of the maintenance schedule form our owner's guide detailing exterior sealant maintenance . In our conversations with Mr. [redacted] he stated to us that his had not been done. Based off the information received both from the servicing dealer and the customer this would fall under customer maintenance. Heartland RV will respectfully decline the request for warranty coverage.
Sincerely,
[redacted]
Heartland Customer Service
Initial Consumer Rebuttal /* (3000, 11, 2016/10/31) */
I spoke with you on the phone yesterday. I can not find the link to respond to heartland RV.
My trailer was not purchased in Little Rock Arkansas. We bought it from camping world in buffalo NY. We looked at the trailer Memorial Day weekend in may of 2015. We took delivery of it in June. I also called heartland RV for the first time regarding this issue the morning of August 22nd. They told me to make an appointment with the selling dealer. Camping world had a two week wait. I dropped the trailer off on September 5th (Labor Day, the dealer was open) I called heartland to let them know it was there and the dealer would be sending photos. The dealer didn't send photos till Monday the 12th due to the warranty employee being on vacation.
Initial Business Response /* (1000, 5, 2017/12/15) */
This response is in reference to the letter received from your office dated December 11, 2017 concerning the North Peak 29Bh V1N # [redacted]. This unit was purchased on July 16th, 2016 from [redacted] with a one year warranty.
Mr. [redacted] was...
contacted by our service team in regards to scheduling an appointment for his unit to be serviced at Heartland's service center. This contact was made after discussing the issues with [redacted]. Based on that conversation it was determined the best course to address the concerns Mr. [redacted] had was to have the unit come to our service center. At that point, our service team contacted him to arrange an appointment date for service at our location. Heartland RV agreed to transport the unit to our facility and once completed we requested Mr. [redacted] come to pick-up. This offer was made so, that we could go over each repair that was done in person and answer any questions that he may have. We spoke to Mr. [redacted] on 11/10/17 and obtained his email information to send out standard release form to him. This form allows us to transport the unit to our facility and also, allows us to work on the unit.
After, receiving the release form Mr. [redacted] had questions about the form along with how long we would have the unit and what repairs we would be performing. I reached out to the customer to answer questions he had in regards to the release form and repairs. His concern was with our clause in regards to personal belongings being removed from the unit and the holding tanks being emptied. On the form it does state if unit is emptied we charge $500 and if the tanks need to be emptied there is a $200 charge for that. This is to prevent our service techs from having to stop working to remove items from the unit so, they can complete the necessary repairs. Below is the statement we have on our release form in regards to these two items.
Failure to empty personal belongings resulting in HRV emptying will result in a $500.00 charge which is payable upon delivery inspection. The unit must be emptied of aft personal belongings as Heartland RV cannot be held responsible for items left inside the coach, this includes fire arms, weapons and all prescription drugs. mtv does not provide secure storage for personal items or items that are not factory installed. Any such items that are left in the unit and are lost as a result are not the responsibility of 'IRV.- All holding tanks must be emptied before repair regardless of repair type. Failure to empty tanks will result in a charge to you of $200.00 which is payable to IIRV upon delivery. All units returned to the factory between the dates of 10-1 and 4-1 will need to be winterized by the customer or dealership.
These are on the form to protect the customer from anything being lost or damaged should it be left in the unit. In regards to the holding tanks we ask they be emptied to prevent any damages occurring in transit due to traveling with contents in them. We recommend that the holding tanks be empty while traveling. This is the statement in the owner's guide for our units. The tanks should be emptied frequently, or as indicated on the monitor panel and especially before travel.
Heartland RV is willing to work with Mr. [redacted] to address the current concerns he has with his RV. All that is needed is for him to sign and return the form to us. Once we receive that we can set the appointment date that will work for him and Heartland. We will schedule the unit to be picked-up a week prior to the appointment date. Once we have the unit here we would inspect determine a course of action and then we would be able to let Mr. [redacted] know a time line for when the repairs would be completed. Heartland RV will respectfully decline his request to buy his unit back.
Initial Consumer Rebuttal /* (3000, 7, 2017/12/21) */
(The consumer indicated he/she DID NOT accept the response from the business.)
The standard release agreement is unreasonable as has been the quality of the product and service received. Please note the release agreement is referred to as "standard." Are there non-standard release agreements? I propose the $500 charge to remove personal belongings is excessive and does not protect the customer. Clauses already exist that "release" Heartland RV from liability. Reference the statement immediately following the $500 charge: "Heartland RV cannot be held responsible for items left inside the coach...HRV does not provide secure storage for personal items or items that are not factory installed. Any such items that are left in the unit and are lost as a result are not the responsibility of HRV."
The justification for charging $200 is now to "prevent any damages occurring in transit". This is not mentioned in the release agreement. The statement cited from the Owner's Manual says "tanks 'should' be emptied...especially before transport." Possible damage was not cited from the manual nor is emptying the tanks a "must" per the manual citation, just "should". On page 59, the manual states "Don't travel with full holding tanks." Under Holding Tank Maintenance, adding "10 gallons to each tank for the trip home" is recommended to help flush monitor probes. With 40-gallon tanks, the manual suggests traveling with 25% full tanks.
Charging $200 after the camper arrives does not prevent damage. The release agreement neither implies nor provides for Heartland RV emptying the tanks. No clause is given, other than the customer will be charged if the tanks are not empty. Citing the same reference used by Mr. Roberts from the Owner's Manual, "or as indicated on the monitor panel," has proven to not be accurate. Take for example the fresh water tank. The observed level changed with respect to time without awareness of a leak. At point A, t0, the level was L2. At point B, t1, the level was L1, where L2>L1 and t1=t2 + delta(t). Also, due to sensitivity and inaccuracies in the tank level system in both fill and empty directions, observation has noted for all tanks the level status light to flicker and/or dwell between states. Moving the camper and not exactly leveling each time may produce different readings. Observation has revealed the level gauge to be unreliable for repeatable accuracy. Beginning from a physically observed and drained tank, the black tank level as observed from the monitor panel, has been noted to advance unreasonably quickly to the full status with minimal use. If the tank is "emptied" to below the 1/3 tank threshold so only the "E" light was illuminated, would this meet the Heartland RV Service Release Agreement for empty tanks. If not, what is the correct definition of "empty" if the Owner's Manual is incorrect, or misleading, and inaccuracies in the Monitor Panel could cost $200? There is no clarity on this in the release agreement.
In Section 1 of the Heartland RV Limited Warranty, Heartland claims it warrants "the recreational vehicle manufactured and assembled by Heartland RV shall be free from defects in material and/or workmanship supplied and attributed to Heartland RV in the construction of the recreational vehicle." To date, Heartland RV in association with [redacted] has attempted to make cheap band aids the elegant solution for repairing defects. Contained within the Heartland RV Limited Warranty, "defect" means "the failure of the unit and/or the materials used to assemble the unit to conform to Heartland's design and manufacturing specifications and tolerances." Heartland has not provided a copy of, nor referenced, manufacturing specifications and tolerances. I need to know if the decisions to date have been in accordance with said documents.
Another issue in the release agreement not addressed by Mr. Roberts is the clause where the customer is forced to agree to accept repairs based on "the customer's reasonable expectations." Who decides if the customer's expectations are reasonable? Is it reasonable to assume that all defects will be repaired or replaced to manufacturing specifications and tolerances as called out in the Warranty? If the assumption is reasonable, then let's put that in writing as part of the agreement. Again, what are those specifications as a basis and what tolerance is permitted? Are one or two recurring leaks OK because it is a tolerance. Is it OK to have falling off door strut brackets because that's the way it was designed and therefore meets the original specifications? Is it OK to keep adding more and bigger screws? Are structural integrity and fatigue considered? Design and manufacturing specifications and tolerances are generally in writing as part of build records. It seems most of the corrective actions should receive "Yes" or "No" answers for at least meeting said specifications and tolerances if they exist.
Regarding the entry door, since Lippert Components said [redacted] damaged the door and would not cover the claim, then [redacted] must have voided the warranty on the component in the few weeks right after purchase when they attempted repair of the defective entry door. Per the release agreement, "In the event that needed repairs are not the result of a manufacturing defect but rather a cause of dealer or retail influence, liability for repairs and expenses will be discussed prior to work being performed. Any charges incurred will be due prior to HRV releasing the unit." We have in writing the statement from LCI that it was not a defect but damage by [redacted]. As a result, we have immediate cause for discussion of this item. I was not informed at the time of damage caused by the original dealer and approved by warranty. Since [redacted] damaged the door, process suggests Heartland RV will not participate in warranty coverage of the door, especially since it has already been denied through the warranty process. Will Heartland RV invoice [redacted] for a new door with matching graphics? Since [redacted] voided the warranty by damaging the door, they covered up the action leaving me without a warranted door since soon after purchase unbeknownst to me until recent. Is there a specification and tolerance for the quantity, location, and size fasteners acceptable for attaching the door strut brackets? What is the specification and tolerance for the door angle when open?
Regarding removal of the original TV, how would this be handled? The TV mount was relocated to accommodate irregularity in TV mounts between the original and new TV. Extra holes were drilled in both the wall and the TV mount. This left visible holes. The TCL TV, purchased by the local [redacted] at a big box store, was not centered. The TV is crooked and contacted the perimeter of the recess causing damage before even leaving [redacted] of London. The 2017 TV model displays fewer channels in full screen than before. A 2010 LG model using the same source with a splitter for testing takes half the time to search channels and displays significantly more channels in full screen. Manual display options such as zoom are unfit. The user interface is not friendly. You have removed a better TV and replaced it with a worse TV. The DVD intermittent video signal was one of the original issues found immediately after purchase. [redacted] failed to fix it the first time as the same exact symptoms occurred after the service. Before the service at [redacted] of London, the original TV was not an issue. After the service, the TV is an issue as well as the loss of all three speaker zones powered by the iRV Technologies unit when TV Audio is selected. Heartland RV warranty already placed a number on this repair the second time, $200, according to the HRV Warranty Detail. The unit was not fixed right the first time, but I am penalized the second time even though it had the same defects. Is this item considered fixed correctly?
[redacted] of London sprayed black paint on the kingpin box for unknown reasons, particularly obscuring important placards relevant to the safe operation and identification of the camper. Clearly, this was not done by the factory as this was noted after service at [redacted]. How will this be addressed since it was not a factory defect?
The deep cut mark on the solid surface countertop was not a factory defect but courtesy of [redacted] of London. How would this be addressed?
What are your thoughts on the "more and bigger" screws each of the two times the awning track was addressed? Were these approved actions by warranty? Is there a tolerance and spacing for how many screws are acceptable in the exterior to fasten the awning?
Is just removing the broken head of the subfloor to trailer frame fastener the correct repair? The floor flexes and squeaks in the vicinity now. A bump is left in the linoleum. Does this structural failure meet specifications?
Thank you in advance for answering all my questions prior to committing to a release agree
Final Business Response /* (4000, 9, 2017/12/29) */
This response is in reference to the letter received from your office dated December 22, 2017 concerning the North Peak 29Bh YIN # [redacted].
Heartland RV and Mr. [redacted] are unable to come to an agreement on returning the unit to our facility for repairs. Therefore we would direct Mr. [redacted] to find a local service center that is willing to perform the needed repairs. Once he finds one we request they contact us with an estimate to perform the needed repairs for review. We will work with that servicer to address the current issues that Mr. [redacted] has with his RV. The offer made to return the unit back to Heartland for repairs will no longer be extended to Mr. [redacted].
Final Consumer Response /* (4200, 11, 2018/01/06) */
(The consumer indicated he/she DID NOT accept the response from the business.)
As an owner/consumer of a Heartland RV product, I have directed questions concerning service and process to the manufacturer. It is with much disappointment that Heartland RV, subsidiary of Thor Industries, Inc., has been unwilling to provide a level a support and quality product that should be associated with a reputable business.
Thor Industries, Inc., on its website page "Meet the Companies," (verified/copy on file 1/6/2018) claims Heartland RV "is among the finest RV manufacturers in the nation, offering a broad variety of brands known for their quality, innovation, and value." My experience proves this is not true as quality is poor, just as support for the product.
I thank the Revdex.com for its assistance in attempting to resolve the many issues with my Heartland RV North Peak 29BH and the poor level of customer service and past disappointing warranty decisions from Heartland RV.
Initial Business Response /* (1000, 6, 2017/01/30) */
See attachment of company's response.
Initial Consumer Rebuttal /* (3000, 13, 2017/02/13) */
RE: Case ID [redacted] and [redacted]
Dear: Mrs. [redacted]
This response is in reference to the letter received from your...
office dated January 20th, 2017 concerning VIN 5SSFPB3521HEXXXXXX Prowler BHS purchased on 7/27/2016 from Camping World in Syracuse, NY. In review of the information that has been submitted by Mr. & Mrs. [redacted]. Our records show that all warranty claims that have been submitted to Heartland have been approved. If the customers have existing issues related to the manufacturing of the unit that need addressed. We would direct them to make an appointment with their selling dealer or local servicer to have these looked at. We will work with the dealer or servicer to correct issues related to the manufacturing of the unit under warranty. Heartland RV will respectfully decline the request to replace the camper with a new one. We will work per or warranty agreement with customer and repair issues related to the manufacturing of the unit.
Sincerely,
[redacted]
Heartland Customer Service
So called resolution provided clearly does not address the seriousness of the manufacturing defect, claimed to have been "fixed" by the dealer and their service department. This recent service, third time transporting unit to dealer 60 miles away, was now end of the season in New York. Now in winter storage since the last repair, no way to confirm if this third attempt was successful. According to the dealer the problem found was related to sealing of exterior protecting unit from normal wet weather. Without doubt once this unit left the manufacturers building, wall and floor cavities were exposed to reoccurring water leakage. Conditions as described often result in serious health issues due to life threating mold growth.
From the resolution provided, demonstrating no interest to satisfactorily address the major issue, one might believe Heartland, the manufacturer, is not receiving accurate and complete information from the dealer.
Initial Business Response /* (1000, 5, 2016/08/24) */
[redacted]
Heartland RV Customer Service
[redacted]
Elkhart, 1N XXXXX
August 18, 2016
[redacted]
Dispute Resolution Services Revdex.com
[redacted]
Fort Wayne, IN XXXXX
RE: Case ro [redacted]...
[redacted] Dear: Mrs. [redacted] AUG X X XXXX
This response is in reference to the letter received from your office dated August 17th, 2016 concerning the Gateway 3400SE VIN 11 5SFSG3725GEXXXXXX. This unit was purchased on July 24th, 2015 from [redacted] Couch's RV with a one year warranty.
After reviewing the information submitted by Mr. [redacted] and our records. We do show that the items he is referencing we noted with us prior to the warranty expiring. Heartland RV will honor and cover those items that were submitted to us Camping World in Missouri. These items have been approved on the claim they submitted. The customer will need to call Camping World to arrange to have them repaired.
[redacted]
Heartland Customer Service
[redacted] Elkhart
Initial Consumer Rebuttal /* (3000, 7, 2016/08/24) */
(The consumer indicated he/she DID NOT accept the response from the business.)
E-mail sent to [redacted] within a month after purchased.
unit also went to Olathe RV kitchen slideout gears slipping, not fixed. took to camping world in 1st part of June Camping world believed gear pack bad, Heartland RV denied claim to camping world, also denied left landing jack creaking runs slow
Final Business Response /* (4000, 9, 2016/08/31) */
August 25, 2016
[redacted]
Dispute Resolution Services Revdex.com
[redacted]
Fort Wayne, IN XXXXX
RE: Case ID [redacted] Dear: Mrs. [redacted]
This response is in reference to the letter received from your office dated August 25th, 2016 concerning the Gateway 3400SE VINT # 5SFSG3725GEXXXXXX. This unit was purchased on July 24th, 2015 from [redacted] Couch's RV with a one year warranty.
Heartland RV as stated in the first letter will honor the items that were noted. The claim that was submitted by Camping World in Missouri has been reopened and approved. The customer will need to call them and arrange an appointment to have the items repaired.
[redacted]
Heartland Customer Service
Initial Business Response /* (1000, 5, 2016/07/27) */
Anthony Roberts
Heartland RV Customer Service
[redacted] Drive
[redacted] IN XXXXX
July 21st, 2016
[redacted]
Dispute Resolution Services Revdex.com
[redacted]
Fort Wayne, IN XXXXX
RE: Case ID [redacted]...
[redacted] Dear: Mrs. [redacted]
This response is in reference to the letter received from your office dated July 20th, 2016 concerning the Trailrunner 300DKVIN #5SFEB3322DEXXXXXX. This unit was purchased on December 2012 from
Crossroads RV Sales in Newfield, NJ with a one year warranty.
Mr. [redacted] contacted Heartland RV on July 18th an issue with a leak in his slide room due to the seals. It was explained to Mr. [redacted] that seals and exterior sealants are a customer maintenance item. Along with that his unit went out of warranty on 12/11/2013. The customer also emailed in to us on July 19th with the same inquiry and looking for coverage from us for the leak issue. We explained to him again that the seals and exterior sealants are a customer maintenance item. We declined his request for assistance again at that time.
In the Heartland RV owner's guide it lists out a maintenance schedule for the customers to follow. For seals and exterior sealants we recommend the customer inspect them every 90 days. We make this recommendation to help prevent issues like Mr. [redacted] is experiencing with water infiltration. have enclosed copies of that maintenance schedule from our owner's guide.
Heartland RV will respectfully decline Mr. [redacted]'s request for assistance in repairing this issue. Sincerely,
[redacted]
Heartland Customer Service