Outdoor Creations

Outdoor Creations improperly installed a stone path and has refused to correct it to our satisfaction.We hired Outdoor Creations to help us fix a drainage issue in our backyard and install a flagstone path from our back gate to our deck. My husband and I met with **. [redacted] at our home to outline the scope of the project and physically walk the backyard to describe the issues and discuss how best to address them. Following the assessment, we decided to address the drainage with 3 french drains (1 in front of the south gate, 1 behind the south gate and 1 in front of the north gate), adding topsoil to build up an area that had eroded with water flow, replacing turf that had washed away, digging an overflow water retention area and installing a flagstone, stepping stone path from the south gate to the deck. The work was scheduled to begin the third week of April 2013. **. [redacted] submitted a written estimate to us for the work, which we accepted.I contacted **. [redacted] a few days before the scheduled start date to confirm start of the project and was informed that it would have to be backed up due to the fact that **. [redacted] had had to "fire his entire crew." The schedule was backed up two weeks and did begin on this revised schedule.The work began and the first problem occurred when my husband and I came home one evening (we both work full-time) to find that the crew had been out and completed installing the drains. The problem? The third drain that was to have been located at the north gate was installed in the middle of the yard, only a couple of feet away from a pre-existing drain. We contacted **. [redacted] to report this and when he reviewed the estimate, he realized that he had failed to list the location of the third drain, so his crew had just placed it where they thought it should go. We reminded him that the location where it was would not address the erosion that was taking place at the north gate, as we had outlined at our initial walk-through. **. [redacted] told us he would install another drain at the north gate, but it would cost us an additional $250 for the additional drain piping. He said that he would not charge us labor for the installation, as it was their error. We also talked with him about the size of the retention area;we didn't think it was as large as had been discussed originally and were concerned. A few days later, there was a large rain storm and the water overflowed the retention area and backed up into the yard. Again, we contacted **. [redacted] about it and the retention area was enlarged.Following this,we went through several days of having no crew showing up on days when work was scheduled. There was never any notice given that they would not be there-we would only find out once we called to find out why. One day, I came home for lunch and was surprised to find a crew there-had not known they were coming. I went to the back yard to find them laying out the path and installing sod. I immediately called **. [redacted]-the path they were installing was not what we had discussed. They were laying out a full stone path that would be filled with pea gravel. We discussed the fact that, while very pretty, we had concerns that the gravel would wash out between the stones, into the yard and drain. **. [redacted] assured us that what he was doing was very workable for that area. He promised that if we were not happy with the result, he would address it until we were, but he was certain that we would like it. We trusted him- he had made good on the other issues that had occurred, so we proceeded. Following the installation, we again contacted **. [redacted] because the stones were installed improperly. They were of varying heights and had not been leveled-just placed on ground and gravel dumped on top. The result was that the walkway was unstable and dangerous to walk on. The first hard rain we had, the gravel washed into the yard and down the drain. A call to **. [redacted] yielded installation of a metal border and advice that the path would "settle" in a few weeks (continued in next block)Desired SettlementContinued from above:The path did not "settle," we repeatedly tripped on the uneven stones and the washed out gravel had halfway filled one of the drains, negating the impact of the drainage. **. [redacted] sent one of his employees out to look, who assessed the situation and agreed that it was not done properly and needed to be fixed. I spoke with **. [redacted] and we discussed two options, the first to take the stones up, use the gravel as a leveler and add mortar to stabilize the walkway; the second to pick up the entire walk and replace with the large field stone stepping stones that had originally been discussed. After some discussion, we decided on the second option.After weeks of being promised that someone would be out to fix the walk, someone finally did come and begin work. Again, we did not know they were coming and arrived home to find that instead of field stone, some type of very ugly concrete-looking rock was being used. I immediately called and spoke with their office manager, who had **. [redacted] call me back. He asked me to specify the type of stone I wanted-I stated large field stone stepping stones, as I had shown him in our front garden when he was out for the initial assessment. After another week or so with no progress on the path and no communication from **. [redacted], I went out, located stone and sent photos of the stone to him. Another week or so later with no communication from **. [redacted], I emailed him to see when the work on the path would be done. His reply was they could get out Wednesday or Thursday. Those days came and went with nobody showing up. Finally this past Tuesday morning, I once again tripped over the "path" and finally reached my breaking point. I sent **. [redacted] an email stating in no uncertain terms that, as we neared the 90-day point of this project, I was sick and tired of the broken promises and said that I expected the work to be completed by July 31 or I expected to receive a refund for the path. To my utter shock, **. [redacted] replied that as far as he was concerned, he had met the requirements of the estimate. He would, however, be willing to fix the path if I went and purchased the stone and paid $16/hour for labor to complete the project. As you can imagine, I was not very happy with this response and several terse emails followed with **. [redacted] volunteering to schedule a day to come out to fix the path, if I paid for the stone and labor. I told him not to bother, I would not be paying him anything more. I am ashamed to say that I was so angry that I further went out and took a photo of the horrible condition of my path, posted it to Facebook and emailed him both the photo and some of the comments my post had engendered, hoping that seeing how awful the path looked, he would realize that he didn't want the reputation of his company to suffer and would reconsider. No luck.So here we are. At this point, any trust I had in this company is completely gone. I feel that there have been multiple problems encountered over the course of the project, all of them avoidable if he had communicated better and listened to our concerns. Through the entire process, **. [redacted] continued to tell us how important it was for us to be happy with the results and that he wouldn't consider the project finished until we were happy. This was his attitude until we paid the balance of the bill; at that point he had no interest in making things right and is now essentially extorting us to finish the path. We are not difficult or unreasonable people, we have been patient and willing to discuss options when problems arose, even bearing part of the cost of an error on his part. I am extremely disappointed with his attitude and the path is just an eyesore in our back yard. At this point, I just want a refund of $795, the cost quoted for the path.Apologies for the length of this story, but I thought it important to have the context of the entire project.Thank you.Business' Initial Response Contact Name and Title: [redacted], OwnerContact Phone: [redacted]Contact Email: [redacted]I was initially contacted by [redacted] in February of 2012, regarding some drainage work. Due to unforseen circumstances, the project had to be postponed to April, 2013. When contacted the second time, I met with the homeowners and gave them an estimate (which I have attached), which we agreed upon. The estimate was for some french drain components, field dirt to raise some low spots, a field stone pathway, and sod. I am unsure of the start date of the project. However, a few days after completion, I met with the homeowners who had a few concerns. One was the size of the catch basin drain hole. The homeowners and myself predetermined the size of the drain hole and after excavation, determined it was not suitable. I had my employees dig the hole out deeper and wider, to the satisfaction of the homeowners. The second complaint was that they were concerned some of the pea gravel used in the walkway would wash in a heavy rain. I agreed and sent employees to install a steel edging border to correct that problem, as well. Both of these tasks took 7 man-hours of labor and approximately $120.00 in additional costs. The homeowner was never charged for that. Here is one example of our company going above and beyond to satisfy the customer. A few weeks later, I received a call from the homeowner saying they weren't satisfied with the functionality or appearance of the walkway. This happened after the invoice was paid in full. The invoice was dated 05/01/2013. The first payment of $2,300 was received 05/14/2013. The second payment to complete the balance was made on 05/30/2013. I'm stating this because no homeowner will pay an invoice in full if the work is not complete and to their satisfaction. Anyway, after hearing the customers weren't satisfied, I told them I would do whatever I could to satisfy them. Please remember the work from our estimate was detailed and completed as specified on the estimate. All of my estimates also read "Outdoor Creations, LLC is dedicated to our customers. We understand that during the process of doing our work, additional work may be desired by you, our customers. We are happy to preform any additional work you request, however, there will be additional charges if the work is not included in the original estimate.". Here is where the problem is. I told the homeowner she would have an irregular shaped walkway constructed from [redacted]. That is exactly what the homeowner received and PAID FOR. She makes a comment about it being unlevel? It is 100% impossible to level field stone. This is exactly why my estimate says "irregular shaped walkway". Since the original work was complete, in my opinion, this falls under the additional work category. I had employees go back to the customers house and remove the pathway that we had just installed. We went back to the customers house on 2 separate occasions with stone that we purchased, all trying to make them happy. However, none of the stone I picked out was satisfactory. My company spent an additional $475 on stone that the homeowner was not satisfied with. I also ate the cost of the stone. Here is example 2 of me going above and beyond trying to make her happy. Several days later, I receive another call asking about the progress. We discussed me going to look for stones and emailing her pictures so that my company could avoid incurring additional losses. There was NO TIME LIMIT SET FOR THIS. Remember, the original work was complete and paid in full. A few days later, I receive an email sent by the homeowner with attached pictures of stone she desired. Oddly enough, they looked just like the stones we originally installed. I told her we would "probably be there Thursday or Friday" of that week. Keyword, probably. Anyway, July 16th 2013, I receive a threatening email from the homeowner warning me the work should be complete July 31st. In my opinion, the work WAS complete 05/01/2013 or there would not have been an invoice that was paid in full. I told the homeowner if she would pick out the stone, have it on site when my team got there, and pay $16 per man hour to cover my labor costs, I'd be happy to complete the work. She stated she did not want to spend any additional money with Outdoor Creations, LLC and I thought we would leave it at that. I'm not going to even comment on the Facebook issue and the immaturity that displayed. All in all, I spent well over $1,000 dollars going above and beyond what I initially said I would do to make this a satisfied customer. I have copies of the estimate I provided them as well as threatening emails sent by the homeowner. I have an additional email from the homeowner stating that "the yard is shaping up nicely". I guess you just can't make some people happy, but I can rest at night knowing I tried. I will not be giving any refund, as the work described on the estimate was complete. So complete, the invoice attached to the estimate was paid in full. We did exactly what we said we would do and then some. I can not make a living doing work for free.Consumer's Final Response (The consumer indicated he/she DID NOT accept the response from the business.)Case ID: [redacted] - Revdex.com Complaint against Outdoor Creations, LLC - Final Customer Response 8-11-13In **. [redacted] response, he cites a couple of examples where he went "above and beyond to satisfy the customer." In my original complaint, I gave credit where it was due on these occasions and, indeed, this pattern of telling us he would make it right and then doing so figures largely in our complaint about the path.My complaint has never been about the look of the path; it is that the first path installed was installed incorrectly and was, therefore, completely non-functional. The stones were just laid on the ground, pea gravel dumped on top; there was no effort to dig down to establish a bed for the path, no sand or any effort made to level the stones. I have included in our documentation instructions for laying out a path of the type that **. [redacted] installed.The result was a path that was treacherous to walk; some stones were 1" in height, some were 4" in height. As they were small (most about the size of my foot) with a good deal of space between them, the large amount of pea gravel both shifted around and concealed some of the stones, making it impossible to see the difference in height and causing a tripping hazard. Also because of the large amount of pea gravel used, the gravel was washing down the drain and out into the yard. It is for these reasons - not the look of the path - that we complained to **. [redacted], and it is the fact that the work was done incorrectly which cost **. [redacted] the additional man hours and supplies. I feel it important to note that, had **. [redacted] installed the path we had originally requested - a simple stepping-stone path using large stones, none of this would be at issue now.The "irregular shaped walkway" **. [redacted] quotes from the estimate refers to the fact that it was to be a curving, not a straight path. I understand that a stone path will never be completely level; not only was this not even close to being level, it was dangerous, as evidenced by the numerous times that my husband and I tripped on it.**. [redacted] further states that "no homeowner will pay an invoice in full if the work is not complete and to their satisfaction." My husband and I make a point of paying our bills on time. When we received the final invoice, we did discuss whether or not we should pay the remaining balance of $795 (the cost of the path). We finally decided to do so because **. [redacted] had made good on the previous issues we had experienced and we felt that he had earned our trust. However, my husband did enclose a note with this payment indicating that there were still issues with the path, which I have attached in our documentation. Additionally I have attached emails from myself and my husband which were sent after we had sent the final payment, indicating our dissatisfaction. For **. [redacted] to suggest that all was well until, weeks later, I suddenly decided I wanted something different is very disingenuous.If, as **. [redacted] states, the contract was complete and he considered the work completed to specification:*Why discuss a plan with us to fix the path? (i.e. whether to level and mortar the existing path or take the small stones and gravel away and replace with new, large stones, as I laid out in my initial complaint)*Why send out his employee, [redacted], on June 7 to work on the path, as documented in my husband's email to **. [redacted]?*When I sent him photos of field stone in July, why did he not respond with "why are you sending me this"?*Why did he email me on July 8 that he would be out Wednesday or Thursday to fix the path?*Why was there no mention of additional costs for stone and man hours until our final exchange of emails on July 16?I would contend that it is because **. [redacted] knew very well that the path was not completed to our satisfaction.As for **. [redacted] contention that he purchased two additional pallets of stone at an additional cost of $475, the only stone I am aware of is the original stones that were laid, and which **. [redacted] has taken back into his possession, and the "stones" that are currently in our yard, which appear to be a mish-mash; the first four are some type of white stone (not field stone), the next three are more blue/gray in color, and the remainder appear to be broken concrete slabs. I certainly did find them unacceptable and, subsequently emailed **. [redacted] with photos of large field stones and told him where he could find them.In short, we remain extremely dissatisfied with the work on the path performed by **. [redacted]. My husband and I put our trust in him, as he had demonstrated his willingness to insure completion of the project to our satisfaction at previous points in the scope of the project. We, therefore, were highly disappointed to find that once he had our cash in hand, he was much less inclined to complete the job. **. [redacted] is correct in his response when he says that there was no time limit established for completion of the path, but as days and weeks were elapsing with no action and little communication, we did not feel it unreasonable to ask that the work finally be completed by the end of July - fully three months after the beginning of what was otherwise a 4-day project.Again, we respectfully request that **. [redacted] issue a refund to us in the amount of $795, the cost of the path. To put it in language he might better understand, we now have to pay an additional contractor for the work he failed to do.Thank you.Documentation:*Photo 1 - our front garden path, what we showed **. [redacted] at the first meeting as an example of what we wanted.*Photo 2 - showing the size of the stones in our garden path in comparison to my foot.*Photo 3 - showing the original path installed*Photo 4 - showing the current status of the path the way **. [redacted] left it*Photo 5 - showing an example of the "stone" from **. [redacted] second pathway attempt*Photo 6 - showing the pea gravel still washing down the drain*Instructions for laying a stone path *Copy of final invoice/note that accompanied our final payment*Emails documenting conversations on the unsatisfactory nature of the pathBusiness' Final Response In response to [redacted] complaint and request for a refund, it seems like the point I am trying to make keeps being misunderstood. We did exactly what she asked us to do and she paid for it. On our estimates it clearly states that any additional work will be completed, however additional charges will be applied. So when we finish a job and its paid in full, anything requested after the fact is considered additional work.Of the several bullet points [redacted] expresses, only one is even valid enough to respond to. She asks "Why was there no mention of additional costs for the stone and man hours until our final exchange of emails on July 16". I would think that anyone who requests work outside the scope of what was already preformed knows that there is a cost associated with that work. That may be my fault for making that assumption, but [redacted] is also at fault for assuming that we would spend more money on materials and labor to do work for her for free.In regards to [redacted] request for a refund, I am willing to refund half of that amount, which would be $397.50. THIS IS IN NO WAY AN ADMISSION OF WRONG DOING. Outdoor Creations, LLC is the one getting the short end of the stick in this situation. We spent several hundred dollars trying to make [redacted] happy, in addition to doing much more work that she was never asked to pay for. That being said, all I am willing to refund is half the amount requested. [redacted]