Initial Business Response /* (1000, 8, ***/10/27) */
*** brought his Dodge Caravan in on the 3rd of Sept with complaints of a brake overheating issueUpon examination it was determined that the drivers front brake caliper had stuck on and caused overheating which
subsequently burned the brake pads and brake rotor on that sideThe caliper was replaced with a lifetime warranty part as well as new pads and a rotor
*** returned on the *** with the same complaintThe driver's front caliper was found to be sticking again and was replaced under warranty free of charge
*** returned on the *** again with the smell of overheating brakesAnother brake caliper was replaced on the driver's front side and extensive checks were performed as brake calipers in a row seemed oddNo other issues were found, however we wanted to go the extra mile and ensure the brake line feeding the drivers front caliper was not at faultAs such we paid to install a new brake line as well and eliminate any possibility of interferenceAt that time we also enquired as to what the van was being used for*** indicated he used the van weekly for his paper flyer delivery route
On the*** we saw *** for the same complaint on the driver's front cornerHe advised us it had been going on for some time and he was just getting around to bringing the vehicle inAgain the caliper was seizing and overheatingHaving a great desire to repair his vehicle once and for all, we decided to put a brake caliper on the vehicle from another supplier in an attempt to prove either faulty brake parts or issues with van use*** was not charged for this brake caliper
*** returned early in *** with overheating brakes on the drivers front cornerWe replaced the brake caliper one last time under warranty during this visitIt was noted that each time *** conducted his***, his van was overloaded with approx 1000lbs ***This coupled with *** the vehicles brakes to overheatEach day deliveries were conducted, it was always followed by a visit to my shop with complaint of overheating brakesWhen brought to his attention however, *** refused to accept that this would have any negative effect on his vehicles brakesA total of calipers from two separate suppliers were used on ***s van, all free of charge
Several discussions with the main parts supplier also revealed that *** had a pre-existing distaste for that company as a former disgruntled employeeDespite this issue, we chose to replace ***s brake parts with items from more than one supplier to eliminate any possibility of part supplier errorIn the end, the owner's misuse of the van was found to be causing the brakes to overheat
We have provided *** with the greatest of care regarding his vehicle and gone out of our way to cover extensive costs in order to ensure his satisfaction to dateWe have not only provided multiple licensed technicians to examine his vehicle, but sought out dealership incite to ensure no pre-existing service bulletins or recalls were a contributing factorGiven the cause of brake failure, we feel it is unreasonable to refund *** the cost of his repairs as services conducted on the vehicle with parts are not at fault
Initial Business Response /* (1000, 6, 2015/09/22) */
As indicated by Mrs [redacted], we did have her [redacted] in for work on the **nd of [redacted]. It required a drivers front control arm bushing, a drivers front outer tie rod as well as both front sway bar links. Options were discussed...
at that time regarding premium parts or less expensive components. Given the year and usage of the vehicle she opted for the less expensive 1 year warranty parts. A four wheel alignment was also conducted at that time with work commencing late on the **nd and finalized the morning of the **rd. The following week Mrs [redacted] did call, then dropped buy with a complaint of having a clunking noise in the front end. Other technicians had performed the work and alignment on her vehicle the previous week, but in seeing a return complaint I investigated the vehicle myself as the Shop Foreman. I started with a short road test over a few bumps to see if I could duplicate any rattle or clunking sound, but nothing was heard. We have several different types of hoists in the shop to elevate vehicles and I specifically chose our 4 post unit which allows us to drive the vehicle on the ramps and lift the vehicle up with the tires vice with the vehicle frame or chassis. My aim was to then check for loose components which may have been overlooked in previous visits. Particularly with suspension issues this can be of great value as the 4 post hoist allows us to see a cars suspension loaded under weight. At times loose suspension parts can present themselves under loaded conditions vice unloaded with the suspension hanging. I utilized a series of tools to check her control arms, sway bar links and steering components but again found nothing. Another key feature of this 4 post hoist is its ability the then lift the vehicle up by the frame allowing the suspension to hang. Thus in effect it becomes a dual acting hoist, a point which Mrs [redacted] eluded to distrust because she only saw her vehicle on one hoist when in fact both conditions were met on the one hoist. At the end of this visit nothing loose or damaged was found and Mrs [redacted] was advised that we felt the automobile was safe to use. Some days later Mrs [redacted] returned to my shop with a [redacted] nut in hand, stating she had her [redacted] to another repair facility and they had replaced a single nut on one of the new front sway bar links. She further stated that she was told the component was either the wrong size and or possibly installed incorrectly. I told her I was unsure this was the case but would gladly investigate. I asked her why she had not returned to me again with a complaint and she advised me she distrusted what we had done and wanted a second opinion. She further stated that we had perhaps lost the correct nut for her sway bar link and possibly picked one up around the shop and used it on her car instead. In an attempt to actively solve this puzzle I escorted her to my nut and bolt bins in order to demonstrate the differences between the [redacted] nut from her sway bar link and our on site fasteners which do not contain a nylon agent for locking, thus making it impossible to simply pick one up lying around as the fastener removed from her car was not the same as the ones we stocked. I then asked her if she was willing to leave the old [redacted] nut the other repair facility had pulled off the vehicle with me so as to compare with a new component. Reluctantly she did, and I ordered the exact same component for her vehicle which was previously installed, had her drop by and showed her the same [redacted] nuts in the sealed bag, proving we had utilized the supplied fasteners in her repair. I further advised her I would contact our supplier to see if any defective components were on the shelf, or had been identified to determine why her [redacted] nut possibly came loose. The results of my supplier inquiry took some time and came back negative. Mrs [redacted] wanted reimbursement for her repairs from another facility. I advised her that her components came with full parts and labour warranty, but her issues had to be addressed by Butts Auto Service as a [redacted] or another similar [redacted] facility in the area. She told me at that time she had not visited a [redacted] repair facility. As such the warranty program in place does not allow me to provide warranty coverage. I did attempt to explain this again but she did not want to listen.
Initial Consumer Rebuttal /* (3000, 8, 2015/09/24) */
(The consumer indicated he/she DID NOT accept the response from the business.)
- The mechanic spoke to my husband on the phone regarding the parts for the vehicle; this vehicle is only on the road, mainly for short trips, a few times a week, and given its age we did not feel we should invest money we did not have into life time warranty parts. That being said, if we had been told there was a chance the less expensive parts might not be reliable, or could potentially be defective we would have opted for the life time warranty parts.
- I find it impossible to believe the mechanic did not hear the noise given it was very loud and actually felt like a banging under my foot while driving, even when pulling out of my drive way, therefore speed was not required to experience the noise. Also, if this were true why would he indicate this make and model was known to have a noisy front end and I should not be concerned. The car was in great shape and I could feel safe driving it to ** and back.
- When he asked me to take a look at the car with him the car was on the 4 post hoist, no explanation was provided at this time regarding the choice of hosts. However when I returned with the nut he explained that he had the car up on both hoists and pointed to each which were in different locations in the building. He did not indicated the one hoist could perform both tasks.
- [redacted] I was told by several people, including the mechanic who replaced the bolt, it was unsafe, especially if I was on the highway and the bolt came off.
- I did ask if it was possible they dropped the nut and used a different one. He did express to me that was not possible and I believed, given his explanation, that to be true.
- At that time he offered to order the part in so I could see how it arrived and we could compare the nut from my car to the one in the package. A few days later my husband and I stopped to see if the part had arrived. It had, so the mechanic and I looked at it and decided it looked very similar to the one from my car. He then asked if he could have the nut so he could send it back to the company to see if they could confirm there were no defects in the components from the batch. My husband was in the car so I went out to confirm with him if that was a good idea, he said sure but take a photo of the nut first, which I did. The mechanic indicated I would probably not hear from him that week but perhaps by the next Monday or Tuesday. That week came and went as did most of the following week, no contact. I finally decided I would phone to see if he had heard anything. When he came to the phone he indicated he had heard from them a while ago. When I asked why I had not heard from him he couldn't provide an answer. We had a brief conversation in which he said there were no defects and he did not feel he installed the part incorrectly. I said if that were the case I would not have had the noise, which started the day I drove out of his parking lot and ended the day the part was replaced by another mechanic.
o He stated - that I indicate the part was repaired by a non-[redacted] facility, I have no idea if they were or were not. I also had no idea the part was even the issue until it was repaired, and had not been told at time of pick up that the only place who could repair that part in the future had to be a [redacted] facility.
I could tell by the tone of his voice he had no intention of addressing my concern or providing financial reimbursement. I ended the phone call by clearly asking what his intentions were regarding my complaint. [redacted].
Final Business Response /* (4000, 15, 2015/10/08) */
A person could spend days going back and forth ending up in the same place, leaving me with the simple facts at hand.
1) We at Butts Auto Service did install warranty components on Mrs [redacted]' automobile.
2) During a repeat visit components were checked for malfunction following her complaint and the vehicle was released with no fault found.
3) She felt unsatisfied and choose to go to another repair facility, the local [redacted] Dealership.
4) Upon a 2nd return with complaint after visiting the dealership, we did go out of our way to investigate the issue at hand.
5) Given the [redacted] parts and labour warranty policy she was advised that in order to cover any warranty claim for free work and parts coverage
she would have needed to return to our facility. Alternatively she could also have gone to another [redacted] related repair establishment.
Number 5 listed above is key as there was a trust issue at hand and Mrs [redacted] said she felt that she did not trust us. I fully support freedom of choice in this country and within the Valley there are at least 6 repair facilities under the [redacted] blanket that Mrs. [redacted] could have gone to for assistance besides us if she had a lack of trust to ensure she still maintained warranty coverage. Sadly once a client chooses to go outside these repair shops our hands are tied to compensate.
Kind Regards,
[redacted]
Final Consumer Response /* (4200, 17, 2015/10/13) */
(The consumer indicated he/she DID NOT accept the response from the business.)
The fact still remains that Butt's Auto Service did do work on my car and that work was not completed satisfactorily. Whether by their hand or the parts supply company the part failed. I did return the car to Butt's with my concerns and was told nothing was wrong. I proceeded to take the car for a second opinion and the part that was installed by Butt's was either installed incorrectly or the part failed. Either way, I was not at fault for this failure and took my car to Butt's in good faith. I feel I should be reimbursed for the costs associated with that failure.
Initial Business Response /* (1000, 8, ***/10/27) */
*** brought his Dodge Caravan in on the 3rd of Sept with complaints of a brake overheating issueUpon examination it was determined that the drivers front brake caliper had stuck on and caused overheating which
subsequently burned the brake pads and brake rotor on that sideThe caliper was replaced with a lifetime warranty part as well as new pads and a rotor
*** returned on the *** with the same complaintThe driver's front caliper was found to be sticking again and was replaced under warranty free of charge
*** returned on the *** again with the smell of overheating brakesAnother brake caliper was replaced on the driver's front side and extensive checks were performed as brake calipers in a row seemed oddNo other issues were found, however we wanted to go the extra mile and ensure the brake line feeding the drivers front caliper was not at faultAs such we paid to install a new brake line as well and eliminate any possibility of interferenceAt that time we also enquired as to what the van was being used for*** indicated he used the van weekly for his paper flyer delivery route
On the*** we saw *** for the same complaint on the driver's front cornerHe advised us it had been going on for some time and he was just getting around to bringing the vehicle inAgain the caliper was seizing and overheatingHaving a great desire to repair his vehicle once and for all, we decided to put a brake caliper on the vehicle from another supplier in an attempt to prove either faulty brake parts or issues with van use*** was not charged for this brake caliper
*** returned early in *** with overheating brakes on the drivers front cornerWe replaced the brake caliper one last time under warranty during this visitIt was noted that each time *** conducted his***, his van was overloaded with approx 1000lbs ***This coupled with *** the vehicles brakes to overheatEach day deliveries were conducted, it was always followed by a visit to my shop with complaint of overheating brakesWhen brought to his attention however, *** refused to accept that this would have any negative effect on his vehicles brakesA total of calipers from two separate suppliers were used on ***s van, all free of charge
Several discussions with the main parts supplier also revealed that *** had a pre-existing distaste for that company as a former disgruntled employeeDespite this issue, we chose to replace ***s brake parts with items from more than one supplier to eliminate any possibility of part supplier errorIn the end, the owner's misuse of the van was found to be causing the brakes to overheat
We have provided *** with the greatest of care regarding his vehicle and gone out of our way to cover extensive costs in order to ensure his satisfaction to dateWe have not only provided multiple licensed technicians to examine his vehicle, but sought out dealership incite to ensure no pre-existing service bulletins or recalls were a contributing factorGiven the cause of brake failure, we feel it is unreasonable to refund *** the cost of his repairs as services conducted on the vehicle with parts are not at fault
Initial Business Response /* (1000, 6, 2015/09/22) */
As indicated by Mrs [redacted], we did have her [redacted] in for work on the **nd of [redacted]. It required a drivers front control arm bushing, a drivers front outer tie rod as well as both front sway bar links. Options were discussed...
at that time regarding premium parts or less expensive components. Given the year and usage of the vehicle she opted for the less expensive 1 year warranty parts. A four wheel alignment was also conducted at that time with work commencing late on the **nd and finalized the morning of the **rd. The following week Mrs [redacted] did call, then dropped buy with a complaint of having a clunking noise in the front end. Other technicians had performed the work and alignment on her vehicle the previous week, but in seeing a return complaint I investigated the vehicle myself as the Shop Foreman. I started with a short road test over a few bumps to see if I could duplicate any rattle or clunking sound, but nothing was heard. We have several different types of hoists in the shop to elevate vehicles and I specifically chose our 4 post unit which allows us to drive the vehicle on the ramps and lift the vehicle up with the tires vice with the vehicle frame or chassis. My aim was to then check for loose components which may have been overlooked in previous visits. Particularly with suspension issues this can be of great value as the 4 post hoist allows us to see a cars suspension loaded under weight. At times loose suspension parts can present themselves under loaded conditions vice unloaded with the suspension hanging. I utilized a series of tools to check her control arms, sway bar links and steering components but again found nothing. Another key feature of this 4 post hoist is its ability the then lift the vehicle up by the frame allowing the suspension to hang. Thus in effect it becomes a dual acting hoist, a point which Mrs [redacted] eluded to distrust because she only saw her vehicle on one hoist when in fact both conditions were met on the one hoist. At the end of this visit nothing loose or damaged was found and Mrs [redacted] was advised that we felt the automobile was safe to use. Some days later Mrs [redacted] returned to my shop with a [redacted] nut in hand, stating she had her [redacted] to another repair facility and they had replaced a single nut on one of the new front sway bar links. She further stated that she was told the component was either the wrong size and or possibly installed incorrectly. I told her I was unsure this was the case but would gladly investigate. I asked her why she had not returned to me again with a complaint and she advised me she distrusted what we had done and wanted a second opinion. She further stated that we had perhaps lost the correct nut for her sway bar link and possibly picked one up around the shop and used it on her car instead. In an attempt to actively solve this puzzle I escorted her to my nut and bolt bins in order to demonstrate the differences between the [redacted] nut from her sway bar link and our on site fasteners which do not contain a nylon agent for locking, thus making it impossible to simply pick one up lying around as the fastener removed from her car was not the same as the ones we stocked. I then asked her if she was willing to leave the old [redacted] nut the other repair facility had pulled off the vehicle with me so as to compare with a new component. Reluctantly she did, and I ordered the exact same component for her vehicle which was previously installed, had her drop by and showed her the same [redacted] nuts in the sealed bag, proving we had utilized the supplied fasteners in her repair. I further advised her I would contact our supplier to see if any defective components were on the shelf, or had been identified to determine why her [redacted] nut possibly came loose. The results of my supplier inquiry took some time and came back negative. Mrs [redacted] wanted reimbursement for her repairs from another facility. I advised her that her components came with full parts and labour warranty, but her issues had to be addressed by Butts Auto Service as a [redacted] or another similar [redacted] facility in the area. She told me at that time she had not visited a [redacted] repair facility. As such the warranty program in place does not allow me to provide warranty coverage. I did attempt to explain this again but she did not want to listen.
Initial Consumer Rebuttal /* (3000, 8, 2015/09/24) */
(The consumer indicated he/she DID NOT accept the response from the business.)
- The mechanic spoke to my husband on the phone regarding the parts for the vehicle; this vehicle is only on the road, mainly for short trips, a few times a week, and given its age we did not feel we should invest money we did not have into life time warranty parts. That being said, if we had been told there was a chance the less expensive parts might not be reliable, or could potentially be defective we would have opted for the life time warranty parts.
- I find it impossible to believe the mechanic did not hear the noise given it was very loud and actually felt like a banging under my foot while driving, even when pulling out of my drive way, therefore speed was not required to experience the noise. Also, if this were true why would he indicate this make and model was known to have a noisy front end and I should not be concerned. The car was in great shape and I could feel safe driving it to ** and back.
- When he asked me to take a look at the car with him the car was on the 4 post hoist, no explanation was provided at this time regarding the choice of hosts. However when I returned with the nut he explained that he had the car up on both hoists and pointed to each which were in different locations in the building. He did not indicated the one hoist could perform both tasks.
- [redacted] I was told by several people, including the mechanic who replaced the bolt, it was unsafe, especially if I was on the highway and the bolt came off.
- I did ask if it was possible they dropped the nut and used a different one. He did express to me that was not possible and I believed, given his explanation, that to be true.
- At that time he offered to order the part in so I could see how it arrived and we could compare the nut from my car to the one in the package. A few days later my husband and I stopped to see if the part had arrived. It had, so the mechanic and I looked at it and decided it looked very similar to the one from my car. He then asked if he could have the nut so he could send it back to the company to see if they could confirm there were no defects in the components from the batch. My husband was in the car so I went out to confirm with him if that was a good idea, he said sure but take a photo of the nut first, which I did. The mechanic indicated I would probably not hear from him that week but perhaps by the next Monday or Tuesday. That week came and went as did most of the following week, no contact. I finally decided I would phone to see if he had heard anything. When he came to the phone he indicated he had heard from them a while ago. When I asked why I had not heard from him he couldn't provide an answer. We had a brief conversation in which he said there were no defects and he did not feel he installed the part incorrectly. I said if that were the case I would not have had the noise, which started the day I drove out of his parking lot and ended the day the part was replaced by another mechanic.
o He stated - that I indicate the part was repaired by a non-[redacted] facility, I have no idea if they were or were not. I also had no idea the part was even the issue until it was repaired, and had not been told at time of pick up that the only place who could repair that part in the future had to be a [redacted] facility.
I could tell by the tone of his voice he had no intention of addressing my concern or providing financial reimbursement. I ended the phone call by clearly asking what his intentions were regarding my complaint. [redacted].
Final Business Response /* (4000, 15, 2015/10/08) */
A person could spend days going back and forth ending up in the same place, leaving me with the simple facts at hand.
1) We at Butts Auto Service did install warranty components on Mrs [redacted]' automobile.
2) During a repeat visit components were checked for malfunction following her complaint and the vehicle was released with no fault found.
3) She felt unsatisfied and choose to go to another repair facility, the local [redacted] Dealership.
4) Upon a 2nd return with complaint after visiting the dealership, we did go out of our way to investigate the issue at hand.
5) Given the [redacted] parts and labour warranty policy she was advised that in order to cover any warranty claim for free work and parts coverage
she would have needed to return to our facility. Alternatively she could also have gone to another [redacted] related repair establishment.
Number 5 listed above is key as there was a trust issue at hand and Mrs [redacted] said she felt that she did not trust us. I fully support freedom of choice in this country and within the Valley there are at least 6 repair facilities under the [redacted] blanket that Mrs. [redacted] could have gone to for assistance besides us if she had a lack of trust to ensure she still maintained warranty coverage. Sadly once a client chooses to go outside these repair shops our hands are tied to compensate.
Kind Regards,
[redacted]
Final Consumer Response /* (4200, 17, 2015/10/13) */
(The consumer indicated he/she DID NOT accept the response from the business.)
The fact still remains that Butt's Auto Service did do work on my car and that work was not completed satisfactorily. Whether by their hand or the parts supply company the part failed. I did return the car to Butt's with my concerns and was told nothing was wrong. I proceeded to take the car for a second opinion and the part that was installed by Butt's was either installed incorrectly or the part failed. Either way, I was not at fault for this failure and took my car to Butt's in good faith. I feel I should be reimbursed for the costs associated with that failure.