In March of CHILS did install a gravel pathway for customer, it was installed and compacted using a skid steer loaderI was notified of washout and came back promptly at no charge to fix the problem, at that time I found neighbors water from driveway in heavy rain shot over catch basin (designed many years ago)I showed customer the issue and explained what was happening and was not at fault for the washout, he said he would fix that, also pointed out neighbors drain tiles from down spouts coming out of hill pointed at his path, could see depressions but no tile exposed, at my expense I installed another tile under his path and left end at close proximity to where water was running out, told him tile would have to be located and connectedHe did offer to pay me $for my time and I exceptedLeft on good terms The following year customer called me back about wash out, I explained same problems, offered other solutions (rock installation on neighboring side of path to divert water) Gave him an estimate which was approxthe same price as his gravel installation but was not to simply add more gravel on pathwayLeft on good terms The problem occuring with the pathway is due to excessive runoffWater issue unforeseen at the time, simply putting gravel back on path will not solve the issue Solution: Properly control water run offRock installation on neighboring side of path to control runoff In response to ***'s second letter, as far as the neighbors drain pipe at the top of the hill, yes he showed me it was there and that is was going under existing path and where the new path was to go, neither one of us knew at that time that in heavy rains it shot over the catch basinI pointed it out to him when I came to fix minor wash out [redacted] said that he would fix that, the amount of water coming from the neighbors is extreme, if that drain tile is plugged or if it flows over the catch basin I cannot be responsible for washout and further damage To address the compaction of gravel, it was compacted with a front end loader, that is how the gravel was installedThe entire gravel path was installed with the front end loaderI told him that there was one area on the steepest part of the path that I could not go over as well but was still compactedCompaction has nothing to do with the problem, even on fust visit the ground was set hard Standard practice is to allow it to be wet down a couple oftimes before tire travel, I told him to wet it down and let it set up before using golf cart, not to pack it with golf cartThe gravel obviously set up well because he was able to use the path with the golf cart that year [redacted] called the following spring and said he had washout, on inspection I could see that the gravel was set very firm and hard but the over flow from neighbors had made ruts, if the water from neighbors is not fixed it gets worse and worseAt that time I told him that the pathway would need additional work (rock on side of neighbors) due to the runoff problem from the neighborI gave [redacted] an estimate to fix ($,500), he said that he had more time than money and would take care of it himself, I believe I offered to supply him with stone so he could do it himself, we left on good terms I have not heard anything from [redacted] until the first letter he filed with the Revdex.comCHILS has been in business since and takes pride in providing affordable prices and workThe issue with ***'s pathway is due to the extreme runoff from his neighborThe neighboring property is heavily wooded and it is hard to tell what other drains are pointed in his directionI see a strong possiblity that not just driveway water (which is located at the bottom of the street) but possibly roof down spouts Sometimes things need further attention which is the case with ***'s pathwayIf ruts are left in the pathway from washout, the problem only gets worseTo ask me to come back and put the gravel back is not a solution, especially after he said that he knew that there was a problem and said he would fix it himselfAgain this path was designed to handle surface rain and hillside runoff not neighbors downspouts and gushing water from drivewayIt is an unfortunate situation unforseen and could have been fixed with additional stone added to divert the water
Revdex.com:
I have reviewed the response made by the business in reference to complaint ID ***, and have determined that this does not resolve my complaint. For your reference, details of the offer I reviewed appear below
In
March of CHILS did install a gravel pathway for customer, it was
installed and compacted using a skid steer loaderI was notified of
washout and came back promptly at no charge to fix the
problem,
at that time I found neighbors water from driveway in heavy rain shot
over catch basin (designed many years ago)I showed customer the issue
and explained what was happening and was
not
at fault for the washout, he said he would fix that, also pointed out
neighbors drain tiles from down spouts coming out of hill pointed at his
path, could see depressions but no tile exposed, at my expense I
installed
another tile under his path and left end at close proximity to where
water was running out, told him tile would have to be located and
connectedHe did offer to pay me $for my time and I
exceptedLeft on good terms.*** did return after the initial installation of the road, when sections of it had started to wash out from rain. We talked about the neighbors catch basin and I later discussed it with my neighbor, who then rebuilt the basin to prevent overflow during heavy rains. The road held up well for the rest of the summer, which was particularly dry that year
The
following year customer called me back about wash out, I explained same
problems, offered other solutions (rock installation on neighboring
side of path to divert water) Gave him an estimate which
was approxthe same price as his gravel installation but was not to simply add more gravel on pathwayLeft on good terms
The following spring, half of the road washed down to the lake in one storm. I certainly called *** to see how this could be repaired and what it would cost and as he states, his estimate was roughly the same as he had charged me the year before to put the road in in the first place. Whether the estimate was for installing rock/additional drain tile, replacing the gravel on the road, moving the substantial amount of gravel that was now in my neighbors yard at the bottom of the hill, is really irrelevant, the by installing the road without the correct drainage in the first place, he created a situation where I would have to essentially him double to the the job right, and after the failure of road after the first year, I'm not confident his second "go" of it would work out any better
The
problem occuring with the pathway is due to excessive runoffWater
issue unforeseen at the time, simply putting gravel back on path will
not solve the issue
I am and was well aware of the excessive runoff that occurs in this area. That's why I was concerned about the possibility of the new road washing out. I expressed my concern prior to the installation of the road in the following email:On Tue, Apr 3, at 11:AM, *** *** ***> wrote:
Sounds
good ***. Will the limestone be compressed in some sort of way to
keep it from washing out? Have you done any other jobs in the area
using this application in a similar setting? I just want some assurance
that this will pack down sufficiently, providing good traction for foot
and golf cart travel and eliminating the washouts that have occurred in
the past. Other than that, if you could give me at least a few days
warning before you get started that would be great. Let me know if you
have any other questions and have a great day!
***
to which CHILS responded...***,
We are using 1/4" TB, compacts harder than any other gravel and will work well
It is compacted with machinery and sets up extremely well after a few rains
We use it on driveways and I'm sure it will work well for you
I will give you a heads up before I start
this was in addition to his initial estimate which stated this...***,
Estimate for top dressing existing gravel path, approx225' long with
approx6" of crushed limestone, installation of draintile with
numerous drain outlets, small amount of topsoil for repair, with seed
and straw covering
$1,
1/down, rest upon completion
Now initially, his "installation of with numerous drain outlets" consisted of drain tiles, one at the top and one at the bottom of the hill. When he came back the second time, he installed a third drain tile. After the first year, when half of the road washed away it was clearly evident that his efforts to control drainage were insufficient. While I completely understand that simply putting the gravel back on the path would not solve the issue, nevertheless there still was a huge amount of gravel, which he installed on the path, which was now at the bottom of the hillside, in my neighbors yard. That gravel now needed to be removed, and the deep ruts in the road needed to be filled in in order for the path to be usable at all. How he can explain the "water issue" as "unforeseen" is beyond me, considering that I had mentioned my concerns about the road washing out in the above e-mail, and after witnessing the damage caused when he returned initially to repair the road and install a third drain tile. Solution: Properly control water run offRock installation on neighboring side of path to control runoff
This "solution" should have been employed when he installed the road in the first place. I was relying on *** as the expert in this, I clearly explained the issues with runoff in the past and my concern about the several tons of gravel he was going to place on the path washing away. He installed the road but failed to apply adequate drainage to prevent this from happening.
In
response to ***'s second letter, as far as the neighbors drain pipe at
the top of the hill, yes he showed me it was there and that is was going
under existing path and where the new path was to go, neither one
of
us knew at that time that in heavy rains it shot over the catch basinI
pointed it out to him when I came to fix minor wash out*** said that
he would fix that, the amount of water coming from the
neighbors
is extreme, if that drain tile is plugged or if it flows over the catch
basin I cannot be responsible for washout and further damage.As stated above, my neighbor rebuilt the catch basin off his driveway long before the first major washout occurred. It is/was functioning properly as is the drain tile he installed near the top of the path, as well as the one in the middle, now that it is connected to my neighbor's downspout. The drain tile he installed at the lowest portion of the path in essentially useless. The inlet is actually at a lower elevation than the outlet, so it clogs with sediment, leaves and the gravel it's supposed to protect, quite easily. It should have been installed so that the water runs at a downward through the pipe, not horizontally or at an upward angle. In addition more draintile will need to be installed, road should be added to divert water and the road should be pitched in a fashion where when extra runoff comes down the road, it flows into either a draintile or at least off the downhill side and away from the path
To
address the compaction of gravel, it was compacted with a front end
loader, that is how the gravel was installedThe entire gravel path was
installed with the front end loaderI told him that there was
one
area on the steepest part of the path that I could not go over as well
but was still compactedCompaction has nothing to do with the problem,
even on fust visit the ground was set hard
Standard
practice is to allow it to be wet down a couple oftimes before tire
travel, I told him to wet it down and let it set up before using golf
cart, not to pack it with golf cartThe gravel obviously set up
well
because he was able to use the path with the golf cart that year***
called the following spring and said he had washout, on inspection I
could see that the gravel was set very firm and hard but the over flow from
neighbors had made ruts, if the water from neighbors is not fixed it
gets worse and worseAt that time I told him that the pathway would
need additional work (rock on side of neighbors) due to the runoff
problem from the neighborI gave *** an estimate to fix ($,500), he
said that he had more time than money and would take care of it himself,
I believe I offered to supply him with stone so he could do it himself,
we left on good terms.*** made no offer to supply me with stone to fix the road, he looked at it and stated that he would have to basically start over and gave me an estimate that was the same amount as putting the road/draintiles in in the first place. His impression that we left on good terms is just that--his impression. At that time I wasn't in a position to shell out another $for him to do the job right. I put my trust in him that the job would have been done right the first time.
I
have not heard anything from *** until the first letter he filed with
the Revdex.comCHILS has been in business since and takes pride in
providing affordable prices and workThe issue with ***'s pathway is
due to the extreme runoff from his neighborThe neighboring
property is heavily wooded and it is hard to tell what other drains are
pointed in his directionI see a strong possiblity that not just
driveway water (which is located at the bottom of the street) but
possibly roof down spouts.The neighboring house and garage are located within feet of the installed path, up a steep embankment. In addition the path is located along a hillside with the uphill side being my neighbor's property and the downhill side across the path on my property. There are a number of trees but where the water/runoff comes from is no mystery but simple physics. His job was to install a path, providing adequate drainage for that path to prevent it from washing away as I had mentioned this had happened in the past.
Sometimes
things need further attention which is the case with ***'s pathwayIf
ruts are left in the pathway from washout, the problem only gets worse
To ask me to come back and put the gravel back is not a solution,
especially after he said that he knew that there was a problem
and said he would fix it himselfAgain this path was designed to handle
surface rain and hillside runoff not neighbors downspouts and gushing
water from drivewayIt is an unfortunate situation unforseen and could
have been fixed with additional stone added to divert the water.The major washouts that occurred on this road for the past two springs were not due to ruts being left in the road over time, both events were caused by single heavy rain-storms and the runoff from this rain which caused nearly half the road to wash away each time. It doesn't take a rocket scientist, to figure out that simply putting the gravel back on the path is not the solution (however it would solve the problem of having several tons of gravel on my neighbors grass last year, and mine this year). The fact that he states above that the path was not designed to handle runoff from the neighboring property (again, which it located directly up a steep embankment and clearly visible from the path) underscores my impression that his plan for this path was inadequate from the get-go, even after I explained my concerns about the road washing away. Again, I trusted him as the expert in this situation and I truly believe that this path could have been installed correctly the first time if he had put more effort into drainage. Instead I'm left with half a path that's barely usable for foot traffic and half a path's worth of gravel at the bottom of the hill on my grass. I would have been better off (and $1,richer) had he not installed the path/drainage he did in the first place.
Regards,
*** ***
In March of 20 12 CHILS did install a gravel pathway for customer, it was installed and compacted using a skid steer loader. I was notified of washout and came back promptly at no charge to fix the
problem, at that time I found neighbors water from driveway in heavy rain shot over catch basin (designed many years ago). I showed customer the issue and explained what was happening and was
not at fault for the washout, he said he would fix that, also pointed out neighbors drain tiles from down spouts coming out of hill pointed at his path, could see depressions but no tile exposed, at my expense I
installed another tile under his path and left end at close proximity to where water was running out, told him tile would have to be located and connected. He did offer to pay me $100 for my time and I
excepted. Left on good terms.
The following year customer called me back about wash out, I explained same problems, offered other solutions (rock installation on neighboring side of path to divert water) Gave him an estimate which
was approx. the same price as his gravel installation but was not to simply add more gravel on pathway. Left on good terms.
The problem occuring with the pathway is due to excessive runoff. Water issue unforeseen at the time, simply putting gravel back on path will not solve the issue.
Solution: Properly control water run off. Rock installation on neighboring side of path to control runoff.
In response to [redacted]'s second letter, as far as the neighbors drain pipe at the top of the hill, yes he showed me it was there and that is was going under existing path and where the new path was to go, neither one
of us knew at that time that in heavy rains it shot over the catch basin. I pointed it out to him when I came to fix minor wash out. [redacted] said that he would fix that, the amount of water coming from the
neighbors is extreme, if that drain tile is plugged or if it flows over the catch basin I cannot be responsible for washout and further damage.
To address the compaction of gravel, it was compacted with a front end loader, that is how the gravel was installed. The entire gravel path was installed with the front end loader. I told him that there was
one area on the steepest part of the path that I could not go over as well but was still compacted. Compaction has nothing to do with the problem, even on fust visit the ground was set hard.
Standard practice is to allow it to be wet down a couple oftimes before tire travel, I told him to wet it down and let it set up before using golf cart, not to pack it with golf cart. The gravel obviously set up
well because he was able to use the path with the golf cart that year. [redacted] called the following spring and said he had washout, on inspection I could see that the gravel was set very firm and hard but the over flow
from neighbors had made ruts, if the water from neighbors is not fixed it gets worse and worse. At that time I told him that the pathway would need additional work (rock on side of neighbors) due to the runoff problem
from the neighbor. I gave [redacted] an estimate to fix ($1 ,500), he said that he had more time than money and would take care of it himself, I believe I offered to supply him with stone so he could do it himself, we left on good terms.
I have not heard anything from [redacted] until the first letter he filed with the Revdex.com. CHILS has been in business since 1983 and takes pride in providing affordable prices and work. The issue with [redacted]'s pathway is due to the extreme
runoff from his neighbor. The neighboring property is heavily wooded and it is hard to tell what other drains are pointed in his direction. I see a strong possiblity that not just driveway water (which is located at the bottom of the street)
but possibly roof down spouts.
Sometimes things need further attention which is the case with [redacted]'s pathway. If ruts are left in the pathway from washout, the problem only gets worse. To ask me to come back and put the gravel back is not a solution, especially
after he said that he knew that there was a problem and said he would fix it himself. Again this path was designed to handle surface rain and hillside runoff not neighbors downspouts and gushing water from driveway. It is an
unfortunate situation unforseen and could have been fixed with additional stone added to divert the water.
In March of 20 12 CHILS did install a gravel pathway for customer, it was installed and compacted using a skid steer loader. I was notified of washout and came back promptly at no charge to fix the
problem, at that time I found neighbors water from driveway in heavy rain shot over...
catch basin (designed many years ago). I showed customer the issue and explained what was happening and was
not at fault for the washout, he said he would fix that, also pointed out neighbors drain tiles from down spouts coming out of hill pointed at his path, could see depressions but no tile exposed, at
my expense I installed another tile under his path and left end at close proximity to where water was running out, told him tile would have to be located and connected. He did offer to pay me $100
for my time and I excepted. Left on good terms.
The following year customer called me back about wash out, I explained same problems, offered other solutions (rock installation on neighboring side of path to divert water) Gave him an estimate
which was approx. the same price as his gravel installation but was not to simply add more gravel on pathway. Left on good terms. The problem occuring with the pathway is due to excessive runoff.
Water issue unforeseen at the time, simply putting gravel back on path will not solve the issue.
Solution: Properly control water run off. Rock installation on neighboring side of path to control runoff.
Revdex.com:
I have reviewed the response made by the business in reference to complaint ID [redacted], and have determined that this does not resolve my complaint. For your reference, details of the offer I reviewed appear below.
Solution: Properly control water run off. Rock installation on neighboring side of path to control runoff.
The issue with excessive erosion was brought up in both emails to the business prior to installing road surface, yet I was reassured again prior to the job that
"We are using 1/4" TB, compacts harder than any other gravel and will work well.
It is compacted with machinery and sets up extremely well after a few rains.
We use it on driveways and I'm sure it will work well for you."
It was also explained ahead of time that
"installation of draintile with
numerous drain outlets,"
...which led me to believe that run-off control would be addressed at the time of installation. Really why wouldn't it be? To be fair, 3 drain tiles were installed and they were effective to varying degrees, but really more should have been installed and in my opinion, more attention should have been paid to this before laying down literally tons of gravel only to have it wash away to the bottom of the hill within a year. Yet when [redacted] came out the following spring to assess the damage, his only reply was that he would pretty much have to start from scratch and it would cost me within a couple of hundred dollars of what it cost to install in the first place. Furthermore, the quoted e-mail above stated that the gravel would be "compacted with machinery". [redacted] admitted after the road was installed that he was unable to run his machinery over it because apparently the grounds was too soft and the layer of gravel too thick to get good traction at that time. So the gravel was never compacted with anything other than foot and gold cart traffic, and I hazard to guess that while the water run off issue was part of the epic failure of this road, it very well may have held up better if the gravel was also compacted. Whatever the case, had I known that half of this road was going to end up at the bottom of the hill and I would be responsible for the clean-up and the proper installation, or I would have to pay just about the same amount to have this business stand behind their work, really I would have left the thing as it was.
I've attached some picture that hopefully illustrate the problem.
In March of CHILS did install a gravel pathway for customer, it was installed and compacted using a skid steer loaderI was notified of washout and came back promptly at no charge to fix the problem, at that time I found neighbors water from driveway in heavy rain shot over catch basin (designed many years ago)I showed customer the issue and explained what was happening and was not at fault for the washout, he said he would fix that, also pointed out neighbors drain tiles from down spouts coming out of hill pointed at his path, could see depressions but no tile exposed, at my expense I installed another tile under his path and left end at close proximity to where water was running out, told him tile would have to be located and connectedHe did offer to pay me $for my time and I exceptedLeft on good terms The following year customer called me back about wash out, I explained same problems, offered other solutions (rock installation on neighboring side of path to divert water) Gave him an estimate which was approxthe same price as his gravel installation but was not to simply add more gravel on pathwayLeft on good terms The problem occuring with the pathway is due to excessive runoffWater issue unforeseen at the time, simply putting gravel back on path will not solve the issue Solution: Properly control water run offRock installation on neighboring side of path to control runoff In response to ***'s second letter, as far as the neighbors drain pipe at the top of the hill, yes he showed me it was there and that is was going under existing path and where the new path was to go, neither one of us knew at that time that in heavy rains it shot over the catch basinI pointed it out to him when I came to fix minor wash out [redacted] said that he would fix that, the amount of water coming from the neighbors is extreme, if that drain tile is plugged or if it flows over the catch basin I cannot be responsible for washout and further damage To address the compaction of gravel, it was compacted with a front end loader, that is how the gravel was installedThe entire gravel path was installed with the front end loaderI told him that there was one area on the steepest part of the path that I could not go over as well but was still compactedCompaction has nothing to do with the problem, even on fust visit the ground was set hard Standard practice is to allow it to be wet down a couple oftimes before tire travel, I told him to wet it down and let it set up before using golf cart, not to pack it with golf cartThe gravel obviously set up well because he was able to use the path with the golf cart that year [redacted] called the following spring and said he had washout, on inspection I could see that the gravel was set very firm and hard but the over flow from neighbors had made ruts, if the water from neighbors is not fixed it gets worse and worseAt that time I told him that the pathway would need additional work (rock on side of neighbors) due to the runoff problem from the neighborI gave [redacted] an estimate to fix ($,500), he said that he had more time than money and would take care of it himself, I believe I offered to supply him with stone so he could do it himself, we left on good terms I have not heard anything from [redacted] until the first letter he filed with the Revdex.comCHILS has been in business since and takes pride in providing affordable prices and workThe issue with ***'s pathway is due to the extreme runoff from his neighborThe neighboring property is heavily wooded and it is hard to tell what other drains are pointed in his directionI see a strong possiblity that not just driveway water (which is located at the bottom of the street) but possibly roof down spouts Sometimes things need further attention which is the case with ***'s pathwayIf ruts are left in the pathway from washout, the problem only gets worseTo ask me to come back and put the gravel back is not a solution, especially after he said that he knew that there was a problem and said he would fix it himselfAgain this path was designed to handle surface rain and hillside runoff not neighbors downspouts and gushing water from drivewayIt is an unfortunate situation unforseen and could have been fixed with additional stone added to divert the water
Revdex.com:
I have reviewed the response made by the business in reference to complaint ID ***, and have determined that this does not resolve my complaint. For your reference, details of the offer I reviewed appear below
In
March of CHILS did install a gravel pathway for customer, it was
installed and compacted using a skid steer loaderI was notified of
washout and came back promptly at no charge to fix the
problem,
at that time I found neighbors water from driveway in heavy rain shot
over catch basin (designed many years ago)I showed customer the issue
and explained what was happening and was
not
at fault for the washout, he said he would fix that, also pointed out
neighbors drain tiles from down spouts coming out of hill pointed at his
path, could see depressions but no tile exposed, at my expense I
installed
another tile under his path and left end at close proximity to where
water was running out, told him tile would have to be located and
connectedHe did offer to pay me $for my time and I
exceptedLeft on good terms.*** did return after the initial installation of the road, when sections of it had started to wash out from rain. We talked about the neighbors catch basin and I later discussed it with my neighbor, who then rebuilt the basin to prevent overflow during heavy rains. The road held up well for the rest of the summer, which was particularly dry that year
The
following year customer called me back about wash out, I explained same
problems, offered other solutions (rock installation on neighboring
side of path to divert water) Gave him an estimate which
was approxthe same price as his gravel installation but was not to simply add more gravel on pathwayLeft on good terms
The following spring, half of the road washed down to the lake in one storm. I certainly called *** to see how this could be repaired and what it would cost and as he states, his estimate was roughly the same as he had charged me the year before to put the road in in the first place. Whether the estimate was for installing rock/additional drain tile, replacing the gravel on the road, moving the substantial amount of gravel that was now in my neighbors yard at the bottom of the hill, is really irrelevant, the by installing the road without the correct drainage in the first place, he created a situation where I would have to essentially him double to the the job right, and after the failure of road after the first year, I'm not confident his second "go" of it would work out any better
The
problem occuring with the pathway is due to excessive runoffWater
issue unforeseen at the time, simply putting gravel back on path will
not solve the issue
I am and was well aware of the excessive runoff that occurs in this area. That's why I was concerned about the possibility of the new road washing out. I expressed my concern prior to the installation of the road in the following email:On Tue, Apr 3, at 11:AM, *** *** ***> wrote:
Sounds
good ***. Will the limestone be compressed in some sort of way to
keep it from washing out? Have you done any other jobs in the area
using this application in a similar setting? I just want some assurance
that this will pack down sufficiently, providing good traction for foot
and golf cart travel and eliminating the washouts that have occurred in
the past. Other than that, if you could give me at least a few days
warning before you get started that would be great. Let me know if you
have any other questions and have a great day!
***
to which CHILS responded...***,
We are using 1/4" TB, compacts harder than any other gravel and will work well
It is compacted with machinery and sets up extremely well after a few rains
We use it on driveways and I'm sure it will work well for you
I will give you a heads up before I start
this was in addition to his initial estimate which stated this...***,
Estimate for top dressing existing gravel path, approx225' long with
approx6" of crushed limestone, installation of draintile with
numerous drain outlets, small amount of topsoil for repair, with seed
and straw covering
$1,
1/down, rest upon completion
Now initially, his "installation of with numerous drain outlets" consisted of drain tiles, one at the top and one at the bottom of the hill. When he came back the second time, he installed a third drain tile. After the first year, when half of the road washed away it was clearly evident that his efforts to control drainage were insufficient. While I completely understand that simply putting the gravel back on the path would not solve the issue, nevertheless there still was a huge amount of gravel, which he installed on the path, which was now at the bottom of the hillside, in my neighbors yard. That gravel now needed to be removed, and the deep ruts in the road needed to be filled in in order for the path to be usable at all. How he can explain the "water issue" as "unforeseen" is beyond me, considering that I had mentioned my concerns about the road washing out in the above e-mail, and after witnessing the damage caused when he returned initially to repair the road and install a third drain tile. Solution: Properly control water run offRock installation on neighboring side of path to control runoff
This "solution" should have been employed when he installed the road in the first place. I was relying on *** as the expert in this, I clearly explained the issues with runoff in the past and my concern about the several tons of gravel he was going to place on the path washing away. He installed the road but failed to apply adequate drainage to prevent this from happening.
In
response to ***'s second letter, as far as the neighbors drain pipe at
the top of the hill, yes he showed me it was there and that is was going
under existing path and where the new path was to go, neither one
of
us knew at that time that in heavy rains it shot over the catch basinI
pointed it out to him when I came to fix minor wash out*** said that
he would fix that, the amount of water coming from the
neighbors
is extreme, if that drain tile is plugged or if it flows over the catch
basin I cannot be responsible for washout and further damage.As stated above, my neighbor rebuilt the catch basin off his driveway long before the first major washout occurred. It is/was functioning properly as is the drain tile he installed near the top of the path, as well as the one in the middle, now that it is connected to my neighbor's downspout. The drain tile he installed at the lowest portion of the path in essentially useless. The inlet is actually at a lower elevation than the outlet, so it clogs with sediment, leaves and the gravel it's supposed to protect, quite easily. It should have been installed so that the water runs at a downward through the pipe, not horizontally or at an upward angle. In addition more draintile will need to be installed, road should be added to divert water and the road should be pitched in a fashion where when extra runoff comes down the road, it flows into either a draintile or at least off the downhill side and away from the path
To
address the compaction of gravel, it was compacted with a front end
loader, that is how the gravel was installedThe entire gravel path was
installed with the front end loaderI told him that there was
one
area on the steepest part of the path that I could not go over as well
but was still compactedCompaction has nothing to do with the problem,
even on fust visit the ground was set hard
Standard
practice is to allow it to be wet down a couple oftimes before tire
travel, I told him to wet it down and let it set up before using golf
cart, not to pack it with golf cartThe gravel obviously set up
well
because he was able to use the path with the golf cart that year***
called the following spring and said he had washout, on inspection I
could see that the gravel was set very firm and hard but the over flow from
neighbors had made ruts, if the water from neighbors is not fixed it
gets worse and worseAt that time I told him that the pathway would
need additional work (rock on side of neighbors) due to the runoff
problem from the neighborI gave *** an estimate to fix ($,500), he
said that he had more time than money and would take care of it himself,
I believe I offered to supply him with stone so he could do it himself,
we left on good terms.*** made no offer to supply me with stone to fix the road, he looked at it and stated that he would have to basically start over and gave me an estimate that was the same amount as putting the road/draintiles in in the first place. His impression that we left on good terms is just that--his impression. At that time I wasn't in a position to shell out another $for him to do the job right. I put my trust in him that the job would have been done right the first time.
I
have not heard anything from *** until the first letter he filed with
the Revdex.comCHILS has been in business since and takes pride in
providing affordable prices and workThe issue with ***'s pathway is
due to the extreme runoff from his neighborThe neighboring
property is heavily wooded and it is hard to tell what other drains are
pointed in his directionI see a strong possiblity that not just
driveway water (which is located at the bottom of the street) but
possibly roof down spouts.The neighboring house and garage are located within feet of the installed path, up a steep embankment. In addition the path is located along a hillside with the uphill side being my neighbor's property and the downhill side across the path on my property. There are a number of trees but where the water/runoff comes from is no mystery but simple physics. His job was to install a path, providing adequate drainage for that path to prevent it from washing away as I had mentioned this had happened in the past.
Sometimes
things need further attention which is the case with ***'s pathwayIf
ruts are left in the pathway from washout, the problem only gets worse
To ask me to come back and put the gravel back is not a solution,
especially after he said that he knew that there was a problem
and said he would fix it himselfAgain this path was designed to handle
surface rain and hillside runoff not neighbors downspouts and gushing
water from drivewayIt is an unfortunate situation unforseen and could
have been fixed with additional stone added to divert the water.The major washouts that occurred on this road for the past two springs were not due to ruts being left in the road over time, both events were caused by single heavy rain-storms and the runoff from this rain which caused nearly half the road to wash away each time. It doesn't take a rocket scientist, to figure out that simply putting the gravel back on the path is not the solution (however it would solve the problem of having several tons of gravel on my neighbors grass last year, and mine this year). The fact that he states above that the path was not designed to handle runoff from the neighboring property (again, which it located directly up a steep embankment and clearly visible from the path) underscores my impression that his plan for this path was inadequate from the get-go, even after I explained my concerns about the road washing away. Again, I trusted him as the expert in this situation and I truly believe that this path could have been installed correctly the first time if he had put more effort into drainage. Instead I'm left with half a path that's barely usable for foot traffic and half a path's worth of gravel at the bottom of the hill on my grass. I would have been better off (and $1,richer) had he not installed the path/drainage he did in the first place.
Regards,
*** ***
In March of 20 12 CHILS did install a gravel pathway for customer, it was installed and compacted using a skid steer loader. I was notified of washout and came back promptly at no charge to fix the
problem, at that time I found neighbors water from driveway in heavy rain shot over catch basin (designed many years ago). I showed customer the issue and explained what was happening and was
not at fault for the washout, he said he would fix that, also pointed out neighbors drain tiles from down spouts coming out of hill pointed at his path, could see depressions but no tile exposed, at my expense I
installed another tile under his path and left end at close proximity to where water was running out, told him tile would have to be located and connected. He did offer to pay me $100 for my time and I
excepted. Left on good terms.
The following year customer called me back about wash out, I explained same problems, offered other solutions (rock installation on neighboring side of path to divert water) Gave him an estimate which
was approx. the same price as his gravel installation but was not to simply add more gravel on pathway. Left on good terms.
The problem occuring with the pathway is due to excessive runoff. Water issue unforeseen at the time, simply putting gravel back on path will not solve the issue.
Solution: Properly control water run off. Rock installation on neighboring side of path to control runoff.
In response to [redacted]'s second letter, as far as the neighbors drain pipe at the top of the hill, yes he showed me it was there and that is was going under existing path and where the new path was to go, neither one
of us knew at that time that in heavy rains it shot over the catch basin. I pointed it out to him when I came to fix minor wash out. [redacted] said that he would fix that, the amount of water coming from the
neighbors is extreme, if that drain tile is plugged or if it flows over the catch basin I cannot be responsible for washout and further damage.
To address the compaction of gravel, it was compacted with a front end loader, that is how the gravel was installed. The entire gravel path was installed with the front end loader. I told him that there was
one area on the steepest part of the path that I could not go over as well but was still compacted. Compaction has nothing to do with the problem, even on fust visit the ground was set hard.
Standard practice is to allow it to be wet down a couple oftimes before tire travel, I told him to wet it down and let it set up before using golf cart, not to pack it with golf cart. The gravel obviously set up
well because he was able to use the path with the golf cart that year. [redacted] called the following spring and said he had washout, on inspection I could see that the gravel was set very firm and hard but the over flow
from neighbors had made ruts, if the water from neighbors is not fixed it gets worse and worse. At that time I told him that the pathway would need additional work (rock on side of neighbors) due to the runoff problem
from the neighbor. I gave [redacted] an estimate to fix ($1 ,500), he said that he had more time than money and would take care of it himself, I believe I offered to supply him with stone so he could do it himself, we left on good terms.
I have not heard anything from [redacted] until the first letter he filed with the Revdex.com. CHILS has been in business since 1983 and takes pride in providing affordable prices and work. The issue with [redacted]'s pathway is due to the extreme
runoff from his neighbor. The neighboring property is heavily wooded and it is hard to tell what other drains are pointed in his direction. I see a strong possiblity that not just driveway water (which is located at the bottom of the street)
but possibly roof down spouts.
Sometimes things need further attention which is the case with [redacted]'s pathway. If ruts are left in the pathway from washout, the problem only gets worse. To ask me to come back and put the gravel back is not a solution, especially
after he said that he knew that there was a problem and said he would fix it himself. Again this path was designed to handle surface rain and hillside runoff not neighbors downspouts and gushing water from driveway. It is an
unfortunate situation unforseen and could have been fixed with additional stone added to divert the water.
In March of 20 12 CHILS did install a gravel pathway for customer, it was installed and compacted using a skid steer loader. I was notified of washout and came back promptly at no charge to fix the
problem, at that time I found neighbors water from driveway in heavy rain shot over...
catch basin (designed many years ago). I showed customer the issue and explained what was happening and was
not at fault for the washout, he said he would fix that, also pointed out neighbors drain tiles from down spouts coming out of hill pointed at his path, could see depressions but no tile exposed, at
my expense I installed another tile under his path and left end at close proximity to where water was running out, told him tile would have to be located and connected. He did offer to pay me $100
for my time and I excepted. Left on good terms.
The following year customer called me back about wash out, I explained same problems, offered other solutions (rock installation on neighboring side of path to divert water) Gave him an estimate
which was approx. the same price as his gravel installation but was not to simply add more gravel on pathway. Left on good terms. The problem occuring with the pathway is due to excessive runoff.
Water issue unforeseen at the time, simply putting gravel back on path will not solve the issue.
Solution: Properly control water run off. Rock installation on neighboring side of path to control runoff.
Revdex.com:
I have reviewed the response made by the business in reference to complaint ID [redacted], and have determined that this does not resolve my complaint. For your reference, details of the offer I reviewed appear below.
Solution: Properly control water run off. Rock installation on neighboring side of path to control runoff.
The issue with excessive erosion was brought up in both emails to the business prior to installing road surface, yet I was reassured again prior to the job that
"We are using 1/4" TB, compacts harder than any other gravel and will work well.
It is compacted with machinery and sets up extremely well after a few rains.
We use it on driveways and I'm sure it will work well for you."
It was also explained ahead of time that
"installation of draintile with
numerous drain outlets,"
...which led me to believe that run-off control would be addressed at the time of installation. Really why wouldn't it be? To be fair, 3 drain tiles were installed and they were effective to varying degrees, but really more should have been installed and in my opinion, more attention should have been paid to this before laying down literally tons of gravel only to have it wash away to the bottom of the hill within a year. Yet when [redacted] came out the following spring to assess the damage, his only reply was that he would pretty much have to start from scratch and it would cost me within a couple of hundred dollars of what it cost to install in the first place. Furthermore, the quoted e-mail above stated that the gravel would be "compacted with machinery". [redacted] admitted after the road was installed that he was unable to run his machinery over it because apparently the grounds was too soft and the layer of gravel too thick to get good traction at that time. So the gravel was never compacted with anything other than foot and gold cart traffic, and I hazard to guess that while the water run off issue was part of the epic failure of this road, it very well may have held up better if the gravel was also compacted. Whatever the case, had I known that half of this road was going to end up at the bottom of the hill and I would be responsible for the clean-up and the proper installation, or I would have to pay just about the same amount to have this business stand behind their work, really I would have left the thing as it was.
I've attached some picture that hopefully illustrate the problem.
Regards,
[redacted]