The claim filed with [redacted] is not fraudulent in any way. Anytime a customer has a complaint with a [redacted] Floor, we set up for an independent inspector in inspect the floor. The quality of the installation is also inspected. This is a normal process.
Ms. [redacted] is now changing her story. Please review her original claim, in her first sentence “I had flooring done by Payne’s, and either the flooring itself was defective, or they did shoddy work”
Now that we have proven that the floor is not defective and that she damaged the floor, her statement is “Payne’s filed a fraudulent claim with [redacted], I never stated the laminate was defective.”
Ms. [redacted] complained about the floor, when we inspected it, we know that the unevenness and gaps in the floor were from water damage not installation. She was unhappy with our response.
The inspector noted the moisture on the floor, that’s what is causing the gaps.
His notes: The flooring in question was very soiled, dull and showed signs of moisture that was left to dry on the surface. The customer spilled liquids on the floor and never cleaned them up. The damage to the edges can be attributed to improper maintenance.
Ms. [redacted] has ruined her floor due to customer negligent, leaving water or other liquids on the floor for long periods causing the joints to swell.
We aren’t accepting responsibility because we did not leave the liquids on the floor. This is a customer maintenance problem, not an installation issue.
Attached are the photos from the inspector. They show the water and moisture spots and something sticky on the floor. She is not properly maintaining her floor.
Following please find the letter from Shaw declining a warranty claim. The inspector noted the floor was very soiled. The customer damaged the floor.
We have received the inspection report by an independent inspection agency in response to the above claim filed on style #[redacted] II, color #[redacted] citing laminate is blistering. Enclosed you will find a copy of the independent inspection report which indicates that the material is exhibiting the following:
• Locally caused damage due to topical moisture and uneven sub-floor.
• No manufacturing related concerns found.
Based on the conclusion of the information received, there is no cause for further consideration of this matter from a warranty standpoint. To obtain a copy of the complete warranty, contact our [redacted] Information Center at ###-###-#### or visit our website at www.[redacted].com.
Sincerely
[redacted]
Sr. Claims Manager
Mr. [redacted] states in his response that we left a layer of plywood and old peal and stick tiles down over his sub floor and installed the new material over that. That is an absolute lie. He saw us tear up the old floor. We 100% tore up the old floor down to the original sub floor, and it would be very easy to prove that. In his original report, Mr. [redacted] states " the floor began to squeak and got pretty bad within about five to six days." Now he says in the second report " attempted to call within days but nobody returned my call. That is why it took two weeks." Again the first time he called was October 30, 2017 at 3:29 p.m. Which is two week later. We have call logs from the phone company to prove that. Why does Mr. [redacted] keep changing his story and why does he continue to make things up and lie about things we can easily prove fake? The fact of the matter is that his original tongue and grove sub floor is making the squeaking noise and not the 1/4'' plywood we put down. As shown in Mr. [redacted]'s pictures is the work he did from the basement to repair his original tongue and groove. He also states that his floor squeaks where he did not make the repair to his original sub floor from underneath. This shows you that it is his original sub floor that is squeaking and not the 1/4'' plywood we installed.
Mrs. [redacted] was informed that metals would need to be installed in all doorways with uneven floors. At the time of installation, the installers checked with the adult present during the time the work was being completed. While this was not the homeowner, it was the sister-in-law of Mrs. [redacted] who was moving into the house. The installers told her the metals were being installed and she agreed. At no time did the sister-in-law ask the installers to wait until she checked with the homeowner before continuing. As per our conversation at the time of measurement, Mrs. [redacted] was informed that metals needed to be used in order to prevent the carpet from separating. It was not possible to create a seam in the doorways due to uneven floors. Seaming the carpet at the floor was not the best option, as the seams would separate and would require multiple service calls over time and would not be rectified without the use of metals. In one of the photographs, Mrs. [redacted] shows a picture of a door into a closet where a metal was not used. This is because the floor at that point is level and did not require one. In regards to her statements about calling her about job completion, she called the store the very next morning (Wednesday) before we had the opportunity to call her, and told her it would be finished Friday or Saturday. She informed us it needed to be done on Friday and we accommodated this request. It is unfortunate that Mrs. [redacted] is unsatisfied with the completed job, however, it was done according to the signed contract and conversation at time of measurement and installation.
On Monday October 16th,2017, Bill P[redacted] Jr. and two other installers installed a new floor at Mr. [redacted]'s House. They removed one layer of 1/4" plywood, installed a new layer of 1/4" plywood and then vinyl on top of that. They did not do any work to the original sub floor of the...
house. The job took a little over four hours to complete. The job was a 12'x15' kitchen with three installers and no baseboard to install. This is the time it should've taken. Nothing was hurried, nothing was a poor job. Bill P[redacted] Jr. walked the job with Mr. [redacted] when they where finished. After the inspection of the new floor Mr. [redacted] said " Everything looks great" and paid the balance of the job. Two weeks after the installation, on Monday October 30,2017 at 3:29 pm, Mr. [redacted] called about hearing squeaks, not five days later like Mr. [redacted] states. During those two weeks, Mr. [redacted] had other contractors in the house to install cabinets and counter tops. On Wednesday November 15,2017 Bill P[redacted] Sr. went out to see the job. He inspected the floor and found the 1/4" plywood we installed, was tight to the subfloor. He went down to the basement with Mr. [redacted], and saw the imperfections in the customer's tongue and groove sub floor. Bill P[redacted] pointed that out to Mr. [redacted]. Mr. [redacted] said he would try to address that issue. He stated in his letter that some of the work he did below helped. This alone states the squeaks were in the original tongue and groove sub floor and not in the 1/4" plywood we installed. At no point did Bill P[redacted] Sr. say the squeaks were not there before. As this was his first time at the house, and how would he know this. On Monday December 11,2017 Bill P[redacted] Jr. called Mr. [redacted], not Tuesday. Bill P[redacted] Jr. asked Mr. [redacted] if the 1'4" plywood we installed, if it was moving when he walked on it, and he responded "No". So Bill P[redacted] Jr. told him that it was his original sub floor that was making the squeaks, just like Bill P[redacted] Sr. told him at the house. Mr. [redacted] began to get very upset, yelling and cursing. He told Bill P[redacted] Jr. he wanted $600.00 because of the squeaks, and if we didn't pay he would take us to court and then would would have to pay $1,385.00. He made a reference to an "Ambulance Chaser" We do not understand any of this. Bill P[redacted] Jr. responded that we are not paying anything because there is nothing wrong with the floor or the installation. You have a new floor with nothing wrong with it. Again more with the yelling so Bill P[redacted] Jr. told him, " I guess we will see you in court" Now the customer asking for $1,885.00
Revdex.com:
I have reviewed the response made by the business in reference to complaint ID [redacted], and have determined that this does not resolve my complaint. For your reference, details of the offer I reviewed appear below.
Paynes filed a fraudulent claim with [redacted]. I never stated that the laminate was defective. My complaint was about the installation/workmanship. I have mismatches laminate where paynes forgot to install tiles and had to come back and just threw pieces in there. The inspector did ask of they did a moisture test and if they let the tiles sit in my home 24 - 4 8 hrs before installing and I said no, because they didn't. I, nor did anyone damage any tile in the home. That's a lie from hell.
Paynes is trying to deceive you. The "independent" inspector said the tile was not defective; which was never questioned. Paynes did a shotty job installing, uneven, gapped, etc. The installer said he didn't need to look at all of their work. He's seen enough. They don't want to accept responsibility. Please obtain a signed copy of the credit card slip & satisfactory work slip.
To Whom It May Concern;
We installed approximately 900sqft of Laminate flooring throughout the first floor for Ms. [redacted] on February 18th, 19th, 20th. We have been back to the home for service calls after the completion of installation to adjust moldings because they were...
knocked loose by the customer. Our employee [redacted] (who went out to inspect the job) NEVER told Ms. Jenkins that the job was not properly done, as he was one of the installers on the job. During the service call. [redacted] observed puddles of liquid (which was assumed to be water) left on the floor, which when left unattended will cause blistering in the boards. The area of complaint is in the Kitchen in front of the fridge. The boards are blistered which is consistent to water damage. We believe the current issue of complaint has to do with moisture/water, which is not covered under warranty and is not an installation issue. We have initiated a claim with [redacted] (claim [redacted]) to have it inspected. We are waiting for the results.
Sincerely,
[redacted]
Claims Specialist
I have reviewed the response made by the business in reference to complaint ID [redacted], and have determined that this does not resolve my complaint. For your reference, details of the offer I reviewed appear below. Regards, [redacted] Hello, I have answered their response below. I stand behind my original statement as being accurate and true. The job took three hours, not over four. P[redacted]'s was hired to do the entire job, start to finish. How they chose to do it was left to their discretion. They chose to leave a layer of plywood and old peel and stick tiles over my sub floor and installed the new material over it. I may have said everything looks great but looks aren't the issue. Squeaking is... I attempted to call within days but nobody returned my call. That is why it took two weeks. Anyone stating otherwise is lying... The cabinet contractor carried in and installed custom cabinets. As stated in my original complaint, there was no abuse to the floor, they simply walked on it. If walking on the floor is a problem they should have told me prior to selling it to me. The only large piece of granite counter top was installed from the dining room. It never crossed the kitchen floor. NO CONTRACTORS DAMAGED THE FLOOR. I do not know why it took a few days to begin squeaking. How would Bill P[redacted] determine the new plywood is tight to the floor?? That is physically impossible since it is under the vinyl. He pointed out no imperfections to my sub floor. That is a lie. I offered to add plywood (see pics) reinforcement which I did, because Bill Sr. offered zero useful input. It is covered with liquid nails and was held into place with hydraulic jacks to ensure a tight fit. I also added 2X4's under the plywood for additional support. I then added an entire box of construction lag screws that were just long enough to contact the new plywood from underneath. This repair took me as long as their install. I will say this again, THE FLOOR DID NOT SQUEAK PRIOR TO P[redacted]"S INSTALLATION. I am 100% convinced that the problem is with the installation of the new floor. Jonathan P[redacted] was at the house prior to the installation and walked the entire floor. He did not experience any squeaking. I can go in the kitchen today, go to an area on the floor that I have not repaired, get on my hands and knees and make the floor squeak using only my hands. I am not strong enough to move the sub floor with my hands. The problem is in the top of the floor. Bill P[redacted] Jr. did not ask me if the new plywood moves. If he had, I would have replied, I do not know since it is impossible to tell. I did get upset on the phone because I was tired of people giving me the run around. I did curse in the context of the conversation as men sometimes do when they get upset. I did not however direct it at Bill Jr. personally. He in turn got just as upset, yelled just as much as I did, and called me an [redacted]. The "ambulance chaser" reference was an attempt to tell Bill Jr. that I don't typically ask people I do business with for rework or money back. I simply want what I pay for. In this case, I don't feel that I that P[redacted]'s lived up to their responsibility. That is why I am filing this claim.
The claim filed with [redacted] is not fraudulent in any way. Anytime a customer has a complaint with a [redacted] Floor, we set up for an independent inspector in inspect the floor. The quality of the installation is also inspected. This is a normal process.
Ms. [redacted] is now changing her story. Please review her original claim, in her first sentence “I had flooring done by Payne’s, and either the flooring itself was defective, or they did shoddy work”
Now that we have proven that the floor is not defective and that she damaged the floor, her statement is “Payne’s filed a fraudulent claim with [redacted], I never stated the laminate was defective.”
Ms. [redacted] complained about the floor, when we inspected it, we know that the unevenness and gaps in the floor were from water damage not installation. She was unhappy with our response.
The inspector noted the moisture on the floor, that’s what is causing the gaps.
His notes: The flooring in question was very soiled, dull and showed signs of moisture that was left to dry on the surface. The customer spilled liquids on the floor and never cleaned them up. The damage to the edges can be attributed to improper maintenance.
Ms. [redacted] has ruined her floor due to customer negligent, leaving water or other liquids on the floor for long periods causing the joints to swell.
We aren’t accepting responsibility because we did not leave the liquids on the floor. This is a customer maintenance problem, not an installation issue.
Attached are the photos from the inspector. They show the water and moisture spots and something sticky on the floor. She is not properly maintaining her floor.
Following please find the letter from Shaw declining a warranty claim. The inspector noted the floor was very soiled. The customer damaged the floor.
We have received the inspection report by an independent inspection agency in response to the above claim filed on style #[redacted] II, color #[redacted] citing laminate is blistering. Enclosed you will find a copy of the independent inspection report which indicates that the material is exhibiting the following:
• Locally caused damage due to topical moisture and uneven sub-floor.
• No manufacturing related concerns found.
Based on the conclusion of the information received, there is no cause for further consideration of this matter from a warranty standpoint. To obtain a copy of the complete warranty, contact our [redacted] Information Center at ###-###-#### or visit our website at www.[redacted].com.
Sincerely
[redacted]
Sr. Claims Manager
Mr. [redacted] states in his response that we left a layer of plywood and old peal and stick tiles down over his sub floor and installed the new material over that. That is an absolute lie. He saw us tear up the old floor. We 100% tore up the old floor down to the original sub floor, and it would be very easy to prove that. In his original report, Mr. [redacted] states " the floor began to squeak and got pretty bad within about five to six days." Now he says in the second report " attempted to call within days but nobody returned my call. That is why it took two weeks." Again the first time he called was October 30, 2017 at 3:29 p.m. Which is two week later. We have call logs from the phone company to prove that. Why does Mr. [redacted] keep changing his story and why does he continue to make things up and lie about things we can easily prove fake? The fact of the matter is that his original tongue and grove sub floor is making the squeaking noise and not the 1/4'' plywood we put down. As shown in Mr. [redacted]'s pictures is the work he did from the basement to repair his original tongue and groove. He also states that his floor squeaks where he did not make the repair to his original sub floor from underneath. This shows you that it is his original sub floor that is squeaking and not the 1/4'' plywood we installed.
Mrs. [redacted] was informed that metals would need to be installed in all doorways with uneven floors. At the time of installation, the installers checked with the adult present during the time the work was being completed. While this was not the homeowner, it was the sister-in-law of Mrs. [redacted] who was moving into the house. The installers told her the metals were being installed and she agreed. At no time did the sister-in-law ask the installers to wait until she checked with the homeowner before continuing. As per our conversation at the time of measurement, Mrs. [redacted] was informed that metals needed to be used in order to prevent the carpet from separating. It was not possible to create a seam in the doorways due to uneven floors. Seaming the carpet at the floor was not the best option, as the seams would separate and would require multiple service calls over time and would not be rectified without the use of metals. In one of the photographs, Mrs. [redacted] shows a picture of a door into a closet where a metal was not used. This is because the floor at that point is level and did not require one. In regards to her statements about calling her about job completion, she called the store the very next morning (Wednesday) before we had the opportunity to call her, and told her it would be finished Friday or Saturday. She informed us it needed to be done on Friday and we accommodated this request. It is unfortunate that Mrs. [redacted] is unsatisfied with the completed job, however, it was done according to the signed contract and conversation at time of measurement and installation.
On Monday October 16th,2017, Bill P[redacted] Jr. and two other installers installed a new floor at Mr. [redacted]'s House. They removed one layer of 1/4" plywood, installed a new layer of 1/4" plywood and then vinyl on top of that. They did not do any work to the original sub floor of the...
house. The job took a little over four hours to complete. The job was a 12'x15' kitchen with three installers and no baseboard to install. This is the time it should've taken. Nothing was hurried, nothing was a poor job. Bill P[redacted] Jr. walked the job with Mr. [redacted] when they where finished. After the inspection of the new floor Mr. [redacted] said " Everything looks great" and paid the balance of the job. Two weeks after the installation, on Monday October 30,2017 at 3:29 pm, Mr. [redacted] called about hearing squeaks, not five days later like Mr. [redacted] states. During those two weeks, Mr. [redacted] had other contractors in the house to install cabinets and counter tops. On Wednesday November 15,2017 Bill P[redacted] Sr. went out to see the job. He inspected the floor and found the 1/4" plywood we installed, was tight to the subfloor. He went down to the basement with Mr. [redacted], and saw the imperfections in the customer's tongue and groove sub floor. Bill P[redacted] pointed that out to Mr. [redacted]. Mr. [redacted] said he would try to address that issue. He stated in his letter that some of the work he did below helped. This alone states the squeaks were in the original tongue and groove sub floor and not in the 1/4" plywood we installed. At no point did Bill P[redacted] Sr. say the squeaks were not there before. As this was his first time at the house, and how would he know this. On Monday December 11,2017 Bill P[redacted] Jr. called Mr. [redacted], not Tuesday. Bill P[redacted] Jr. asked Mr. [redacted] if the 1'4" plywood we installed, if it was moving when he walked on it, and he responded "No". So Bill P[redacted] Jr. told him that it was his original sub floor that was making the squeaks, just like Bill P[redacted] Sr. told him at the house. Mr. [redacted] began to get very upset, yelling and cursing. He told Bill P[redacted] Jr. he wanted $600.00 because of the squeaks, and if we didn't pay he would take us to court and then would would have to pay $1,385.00. He made a reference to an "Ambulance Chaser" We do not understand any of this. Bill P[redacted] Jr. responded that we are not paying anything because there is nothing wrong with the floor or the installation. You have a new floor with nothing wrong with it. Again more with the yelling so Bill P[redacted] Jr. told him, " I guess we will see you in court" Now the customer asking for $1,885.00
Revdex.com:
I have reviewed the response made by the business in reference to complaint ID [redacted], and have determined that this does not resolve my complaint. For your reference, details of the offer I reviewed appear below.
Paynes filed a fraudulent claim with [redacted]. I never stated that the laminate was defective. My complaint was about the installation/workmanship. I have mismatches laminate where paynes forgot to install tiles and had to come back and just threw pieces in there. The inspector did ask of they did a moisture test and if they let the tiles sit in my home 24 - 4 8 hrs before installing and I said no, because they didn't. I, nor did anyone damage any tile in the home. That's a lie from hell.
Paynes is trying to deceive you. The "independent" inspector said the tile was not defective; which was never questioned. Paynes did a shotty job installing, uneven, gapped, etc. The installer said he didn't need to look at all of their work. He's seen enough. They don't want to accept responsibility. Please obtain a signed copy of the credit card slip & satisfactory work slip.
To Whom It May Concern;
We installed approximately 900sqft of Laminate flooring throughout the first floor for Ms. [redacted] on February 18th, 19th, 20th. We have been back to the home for service calls after the completion of installation to adjust moldings because they were...
knocked loose by the customer. Our employee [redacted] (who went out to inspect the job) NEVER told Ms. Jenkins that the job was not properly done, as he was one of the installers on the job. During the service call. [redacted] observed puddles of liquid (which was assumed to be water) left on the floor, which when left unattended will cause blistering in the boards. The area of complaint is in the Kitchen in front of the fridge. The boards are blistered which is consistent to water damage. We believe the current issue of complaint has to do with moisture/water, which is not covered under warranty and is not an installation issue. We have initiated a claim with [redacted] (claim [redacted]) to have it inspected. We are waiting for the results.
Sincerely,
[redacted]
Claims Specialist
I have reviewed the response made by the business in reference to complaint ID [redacted], and have determined that this does not resolve my complaint. For your reference, details of the offer I reviewed appear below. Regards, [redacted] Hello, I have answered their response below. I stand behind my original statement as being accurate and true. The job took three hours, not over four. P[redacted]'s was hired to do the entire job, start to finish. How they chose to do it was left to their discretion. They chose to leave a layer of plywood and old peel and stick tiles over my sub floor and installed the new material over it. I may have said everything looks great but looks aren't the issue. Squeaking is... I attempted to call within days but nobody returned my call. That is why it took two weeks. Anyone stating otherwise is lying... The cabinet contractor carried in and installed custom cabinets. As stated in my original complaint, there was no abuse to the floor, they simply walked on it. If walking on the floor is a problem they should have told me prior to selling it to me. The only large piece of granite counter top was installed from the dining room. It never crossed the kitchen floor. NO CONTRACTORS DAMAGED THE FLOOR. I do not know why it took a few days to begin squeaking. How would Bill P[redacted] determine the new plywood is tight to the floor?? That is physically impossible since it is under the vinyl. He pointed out no imperfections to my sub floor. That is a lie. I offered to add plywood (see pics) reinforcement which I did, because Bill Sr. offered zero useful input. It is covered with liquid nails and was held into place with hydraulic jacks to ensure a tight fit. I also added 2X4's under the plywood for additional support. I then added an entire box of construction lag screws that were just long enough to contact the new plywood from underneath. This repair took me as long as their install. I will say this again, THE FLOOR DID NOT SQUEAK PRIOR TO P[redacted]"S INSTALLATION. I am 100% convinced that the problem is with the installation of the new floor. Jonathan P[redacted] was at the house prior to the installation and walked the entire floor. He did not experience any squeaking. I can go in the kitchen today, go to an area on the floor that I have not repaired, get on my hands and knees and make the floor squeak using only my hands. I am not strong enough to move the sub floor with my hands. The problem is in the top of the floor. Bill P[redacted] Jr. did not ask me if the new plywood moves. If he had, I would have replied, I do not know since it is impossible to tell. I did get upset on the phone because I was tired of people giving me the run around. I did curse in the context of the conversation as men sometimes do when they get upset. I did not however direct it at Bill Jr. personally. He in turn got just as upset, yelled just as much as I did, and called me an [redacted]. The "ambulance chaser" reference was an attempt to tell Bill Jr. that I don't typically ask people I do business with for rework or money back. I simply want what I pay for. In this case, I don't feel that I that P[redacted]'s lived up to their responsibility. That is why I am filing this claim.