PMT Dance Studio

Review: I signed up for two dance workshops that were of low quality (poor instruction in one and serious overcrowding in the other) and I asked to drop out of the classes. The business wouldn't give me a refund and will only offer me a $270 credit. I can only take classes on the weekend and the class offering on the weekend is extremely limited, so there is no way I can actually use the credit, and I do not want to be forced to take classes that I am not interested in.Desired Settlement: Would like a refund of the $270, but am willing to pay for the two classes that I attended part of on the first day.

Business

Response:

Hi, thank you for bringing this to my attention. I am sorry to see that her experience here has lead her to pursue a resolution in this manner. I would have hoped that all of our conversations before the workshops started and after her first class would’ve been more helpful, but that was not the case.

On 8/**/2013, [redacted] did register for our Adv. Beg/Intermediate Salsa and Hip Hop Workshops which both started on 9/**/2013. She paid a total of $270 for both workshops. On 9/**/2013, she had emailed us questioning the level of the Hip Hop class and showing great concern about the level. I answered her myself, informing her that these workshops are for those with at least 2 years dance experience. In case there was any doubt, I noted that this level requirement was stated as follows on the webpage where she registered. It was stated as follows:

Advanced Beg/Intermediate Performance Intensives

These workshops are a great way for more experienced students to further their dance knowledge while performing alongside other professionals in a critically reviewed showcase! All Adv. Beg./Intermediate Performance Workshops require experience of 2 year minimum and/or the approval of the workshop's teacher in order for a student to attend.

The webpage where this is found: http[redacted]

She then responded that she wanted to drop the workshop if it was too difficult or what she termed as ‘Intermediate’. I reassured her that the level of the class was what she thought it was. I also explained that levels are often interpreted differently from teacher to teacher, hence why we ask for 2 years experience (as a universal standard) before joining. In addition, I told her that just as the website says, there are no refunds issued for these workshops. I told her this directly in my emails with her on 9/**, almost one week prior to the start of class. I also informed her that the website does state the refund policy on all pages related to this workshop:

http[redacted]

http[redacted]

Given her sudden concern about the level of the hip hop class, I did let her know that she may receive a credit for her to use towards another class. At that time, despite her early concerns about the level, she agreed to remain in the workshops she originally registered for (as proved by an email sent by her on Sept [redacted]).

In regards to her experience in [redacted]’s Salsa Class, [redacted] has written a response as I was not there to witness what happened. [redacted] responded as follows:

[redacted], Salsa teacher, summary of events during his class on 9/**/2013:

“I started with a welcome message, introducing myself and greeted everyone. I did an attendance sheet. Then we all gathered together and I had everyone introduce themselves. I played the music for them to hear the song that we would be using for the choreography.

We did a Salsa warm up of some basic Salsa steps, then I had someone who arrived late introduce themselves.

After this we got started with the choreography. I began explaining and breaking down each part. Throughout I asked if people had any questions, she did not ask any questions. Certain parts that people generally were challenged with we paused to break down leader and follower footwork or key details about executing the move.

At a certain point as they were rotating I noticed that she and some other people were having difficulty and I just walked through some of the movements with them with no counts.

When I saw that the woman, [redacted] was still having difficulty, I realized it could be either something lacking from the leader in executing the move or maybe something missing from her footwork. I rotated the partners around so that I could dance with her and assess what was the situation.

By this point we had learned several 8 counts already.As we started to walk though, it was clear that she was not familiar with some basic Salsa partnering concepts in regards to lead-follow and which direction to travel during some of the moves, sometimes going against the directional lead.

I started to explain to her, technique wise, the moves and which direction she should be traveling. At this point she said that she does not think this is the workshop for her as she had never done Salsa or any partnering before.

The other students were getting the choreography and I just figured I would go slower and explain a bit more with the choreography so that she could obtain some more benefit and understanding from her session with us.

At this point, as I rotated she went to gather her belongings and left the room before the class was dismissed, approximately 30 minutes prior to the end of the class.”

Nothing in [redacted]’s account, or the account of other students I spoke to, indicated any complaints about [redacted]’s ability to teach. Furthermore, she did not ever give any reasons or examples of why the instruction was bad (ie – he didn’t speak clearly, misrepresented the steps, etc.), so even if there was some validity to her claim, we cannot confirm or address it. Saying a teacher is a poor teacher or is of low quality is a very strong accusation. We would at least need some example or explanation to support such a strong claim.

Moreover, the evidence would more likely support that [redacted] did not meet the pre-requisite experience required for the course. This is confirmed by her own admission of this via conversation with [redacted] and emails sent to us that said the following (emails were sent on 9/**):

“As for the quality of the salsa instruction...with all the salsa studios in NYC doing shines I assumed there wouldn't be partnerwork.”

“I signed up for an adv beginner/intermediate class. If the class is intermediate it is no longer as advertised and I am entitled to a refund. “ (This was in regards to both workshops)

First, this is not true as most studios offering Salsa Dance, if not all, offer instruction in partnering and not solely shines. Second, this statement does not criticize the actual instruction. It just states that she disagrees with a Salsa class requiring partnering. While I do not know [redacted], I would contend that she is not qualified to make this judgment. Salsa dance, by its nature, is a dance that requires and is based on partnering. Any experienced dancer, or even novice observer, would know this. To assume that in an 8-week Salsa Dance Performance Workshop a student would not do any partnering is surprising, to say the least, and shows a clear lack of experience in the genre. That would be the equivalent of taking a ballroom performance workshop and expecting not to actually dance with a partner, or taking Break Dance and assuming you would not dance on the floor. The two are intertwined. It completely contradicts the inherent nature of the dance. She may ha ve taken classes that specialized in shines, but Salsa dance as a whole consists of more than just shines. Salsa dance is based on dancing with a partner. It is not based on shines. Lastly, this class was not labeled as a Ladies Shines class. It had men and women registered, and it was run true to form and as advertised as it has been for the last 6 years.

[redacted] has been a valued member of teaching faculty since 2007. I myself have taken and enjoyed [redacted]’s class for years, and he has enjoyed a great amount of success both here and worldwide. His resume speaks for itself, and while every teacher is not a perfect fit for every student, to allege that he is a bad teacher or gave poor instruction without any proof or qualification to make that judgment is irresponsible. The reputation of teachers and dancers is what powers their ability to earn, and making a claim to damage their reputation without evidence is reckless and damaging towards their reputation. Just because he added partnering in his SALSA class does not make [redacted] a bad teacher. In fact, adding partnering in a social/partner dance style just supports that he is knowledgeable of the dance style, and is properly representing it. [redacted] had already taken the time to talk to her during class, partner with her during class to assist her, and sped down the p ace of the class for her benefit. For his troubles, he received this complaint. It is hard to comprehend as his actions are not the actions of a bad teacher or someone who does not care about his students. [redacted] taught a carefully prepared lesson plan, attentively and patiently in Salsa dance in accordance with the level and pre-requisites that were advertised. [redacted] did not meet the pre-requisite of the class, to which she actually acknowledged, but did not mention in her complaint with the Revdex.com. Rather than admitting that she may not have been up to the level in her complaint to the Revdex.com, she falsely accused [redacted] of being a bad teacher.

In regards to the Hip Hop class, I was the teacher for that class. First, during introductions at the start of class, she introduced herself as “[redacted]” while previously introducing herself to my desk staff and [redacted] as “[redacted]”. This coupled with my previous email conversations with her had clued me in that she may have apprehensions about participating in the workshop. However, I did not pursue the matter at the time and hoped it would work out.

Her claim that it was ‘seriously crowded’ could not be farther from the truth as evidenced by the following:

She was one of 26 students. The room itself is 1500 sq feet – 50X30 ft with no pillars or obstructions. By any standard, 26 students in a class room this big is not crowded. To put it in perspective, you can easily fit, in a line, all 26 students going across about two times over. Students face the 50 foot wall when learning, and the wall is covered fully with a continuous full length mirror. Thus, all students have a very good view and there are plenty of windows. Furthermore, we actually closed enrollment after it hit 26 students so to not overcrowd the class. We want the class and performance experience to be a good one and NOT crowded. In fact, she was informed that the class was full a week prior to the first day along with all the other students so she was aware that we had this practice. To put this in perspective, [redacted], a reputable school where I taught at for a number of years, would allow 45 students into a class room and performance space of t he same size before closing it off. This is actually standard practice in most New York City dance studios. We greatly value not having overcrowded classes, so all of our classes are limited to certain number that is far more manageable than other schools. We do this despite it being less profitable purely to give a proper dance experience.

It is important to note that she never provided what she thought would be a good sized enrollment for that class, and never stated what her expectation for this actually was.

Furthermore, she positioned herself in the very back left corner of the room. If she had indicated during class that she could not see, I would’ve accommodated her immediately but I was unaware of any concerns. She never made an attempt to find a better spot or ask me to reposition myself and re-teach a step. After about 30 minutes of the lesson plan, she left right as we started to split the class into small groups. In fact, we spent most of the rest of the class in smaller groups, receiving personalized corrections and drilling the dance number. I even stayed after class to work with students who had questions. However, like in Salsa, she left 30 minutes into the lesson, before any of this happened, without the proper courtesy of informing/discussing it with me or anyone as to why. During class, it was very clear she was not up to the level of the class, even though the class consisted mostly of commonplace Hip Hop dance movements. Still, I would have gladly w orked with her to get her to that point, but she did not stay long enough to experience this nor did she ever indicate willingness to work with me or the other students. I even offered my students additional classes and help for free because we do want to give everyone the opportunity to learn, but she left early with no intention of using this help to better her apparent lack of dance experience.

Here are some statements made from other participants of my class in regards to [redacted]’s participation in the class supporting our stance:

Statement by [redacted] (long time student):

“I have been taking both classes and performance workshops at PMT dance studio for a few years now and have nothing but amazing learning experiences with the extraordinary talented, professional, and patient staff. Not even halfway through the first class of [redacted]’s Advanced Beginner/ Intermediate workshop, a student by the name of “[redacted]” left, which caused a disruption as she made her way out. Based on my experience, there is no way she could have given the workshop, [redacted], or her fellow students an appropriate evaluation in such a short time. “

Statement by [redacted] (teaching assistant):

“When [redacted] entered the classroom she stayed in a far corner away from the group and resisted efforts to take a spot on the actual dance floor. During introductions , she told the group her name was "[redacted] "'

Statement by [redacted] (2nd time student):

During introductions, the participant introduced herself as "[redacted]" and elected to stand in the back corner of the studio. I noticed she was having some difficulty keeping up with the choreography. Rather than fulfilling participation for the entire class or asking for clarification from the instructor, she abruptly collected her things, walked out of the rehearsal within thirty minutes and never returned. She did not inform any peers or the instructor that she was leaving or why."

[redacted] (first time student):

“I did not notice her in class at first because she was isolated in the back corner of the room. The class was definitely not overcrowded by any means.”

In fairness, if at anyone at the Revdex.com or an independent group would like to speak to any student in either the Salsa or Hip Hop workshop, or make a spot visit without announcement and speak to anyone in regards to this, they may do so without interference or objection in case there is question as to the authenticity of these statements or any statements presented herein.

While we do offer refunds for other services, we do not offer refunds for performance workshops, as a general policy, for the following reasons:

- We want all students who are enrolling to be fully committed to the entire duration of the workshop and corresponding performances. Allowing students to partially register, drop when they want with no consequence, or otherwise leave the class without a legitimate reason would severely undermine the integrity of a workshop or the performance program as a whole. Thus, this would damage our ability to stay in business. The performance process requires students to all work together and for teachers to know what they are working in order for the best experience. Even one student dropping out affects the dynamics of the whole class and performance piece. For example, a person missing could disrupt formations, the roles of other dancers, the plans of the teacher and/or the dance as a whole especially if it is a dance that requires partners.

- Some workshops, like my hip hop workshop which [redacted] took, was full. Once it is full, we close enrollment in order to not overcrowd the class, thus preventing other interested students in joining. If enrolled students did not take their commitment to the workshops seriously, it would unjustly prevent another interested student from partaking in the class. Even with a waitlist, customers often explore other opportunities if they are unable to register in the time they choose. Other workshops have enrollment minimums that need to be met, so student commitment is required to keep the workshop running.

- In order to attain qualified teachers, we have to implement certain basic policies. First, it is that our students follow certain etiquette & pre-requisite. Second, it is that they are paid for all students who enroll in class. Not being able to do so would greatly affect our ability to secure the best talent for a particular teaching position, undermining our ability to stay in business.

If students have issues with the level, we do offer full credits to re-use towards our beginner performance classes, which are offered on the same day. If that does not work, they can use it towards any future workshop or non-performance classes. We can also assign the workshop fees as a gift to their friends if they themselves do not want to use it. In [redacted]’s case, we offered a credit of $270, to use towards any other class and would have given back credit for classes already taken. We also gave her an option to gift the remaining credits to someone else. We did this despite statements like this made via email:

“Sign me up for the beginning workshop that starts Sunday. I'm sure it will be great. And if it sucks as bad as the other classes everyone will hear about it.”

She then un-enrolled from the class the same day. This is not the first email sent to us with this tone. Despite this, our mission is to provide students with dance instruction, so her credit of $270 is still available to her, and we still will honor the original arrangement and will not deduct $34 for classes already taken.

If her complaint showed in any way that a service was not rendered for even the smallest reason – i.e.: a teacher was excessively absent or late, did not teach the advertised style, made requirements that were not previously advertised, etc – we would, without hesitation, provide a refund. However, to date, she has not provided any evidence that will show that services were not rendered as advertised. The accusations she did make were baseless, as evidenced in this response.

Regardless of what response we gave then and now to any complaint, she was never truly satisfied with any response and never actually addressed our responses directly. She would only respond with various other reasons that she wanted to drop that were unrelated to the previous reason and unsubstantiated. As evidence herein, she made unfounded accusations the level was something that it was not, that the teacher was poor, that there were no classes available as an alternative (we have a Beginner Hip Hop dance workshop offered on Sundays as well) or that the class was too crowded. She came to these conclusions about an 8 week program with less than one class’ experience, and made half of them without even stepping into a class.

In conclusion, please dismiss this complaint for the following reasons:

- The refund policy was stated clearly online and told to her before the start of the workshop, to which she agreed to remain in the workshop (proofed by emails sent on 9/**)

- The reasons given to the Revdex.com for refund have been shown to be unfounded, as evidenced herein.

- Services were rendered as advertised. She chose to leave class early and enroll for a class without properly researching the class or making sure she met the pre-requisite. When offered classes (on Sunday) that were of a level that was more fitting for her, she refused to take it. Like with any school, the student is also asked to meet a certain level of expectation/pre-requisite. Despite the pre-requisite being clear, she failed to meet this. Despite this, we offered a compromise to work it out, but she has refused to this date to take it.

- The reasons she provided for a refund, both to me and the Revdex.com, were incompatible with one another and unsubstantiated. For example, in one email thread on 9/**, she first said the class was more difficult than advertised. When that was refuted, she then said she could not see and could not tell what the level was as she ‘could not see any of the moves’. If the class was too hard, how could she assess this if she could not see and was unable to actually try the steps? When this was refuted, she’d say something else but never actually provided any explanation or proof of her claims.

- She had ample opportunity to research and inquire about the class. All teachers have videos, bios and or class descriptions available to describe their class, style and qualifications either on our site or youtube. In addition, we provide a very easy to reach email address and phone number where they can ask questions and research the workshop before signing up. However, she chose to enroll without doing this.

In 12 years of building this company, I have never received a complaint of this nature. As the company’s director, I deal with customers directly to ensure the best service and show accountability. There is no middle man or representative that I hide behind. In addition, it is important to note that out of about 120 total enrolled students in this season’s performance workshops, this is the only complaint of any kind. While we are truly sorry to hear that [redacted]’s experience was a poor one, she has not provided any real evidence to substantiate her claims and our refund policy was properly posted and further elaborated to her via email and in person (by our staff on 9/**) on numerous occasions. Thus, we cannot issue a refund. However, we would still be ok with her trying another class or giving the full $270 credit to someone else as a gift.

Consumer

Response:

I have reviewed the response made by the business in reference to complaint ID# [redacted], and have determined that my complaint has NOT been resolved because:

I don't want to be forced to spend money on classes that I don't want to take when the workshops were not as expected (seriously overcrowded in one so that I could not physically see what the instructor was doing, and in the other I couldn't dance for much of the time because there were a lot more female followers than leads). I'm not sure why this company is unwilling to issue any kind of a refund, and would rather spend hours locked in a battle over keeping it. Very poor and unprofessional management. After being treated this way by PMT's management, I can't imagine how they would think offering a credit to go back and take more classes would be an acceptable solution.

In addition, the manager claims that he said that the level was for advanced beginners and intermediate level, as it was advertised on the website. However, an email that he sent to me directly contradicts that and I can provide evidence from his email to me. This is a direct quote from the email chain where he says that the class is intermediate:

Is this an intermediate or an advanced beginner/intermediate class? Are the levels comparable to Broadway Dance Center?