Pool Spa Help

We insisted that Mr [redacted] submit his issues by email from the beginning He sent pictures to us when asking for our help with the wiringWe responded by email and referred him to the Owner’s Manual All of the correspondence was included with our first reply to the Revdex.comMr [redacted] plumbed his pump to suck water rather than to blow water through the controller, making it impossible for it to function He has refused to wire his unit as shown in the Owner’s Manual for GFI protection These are just two reasons why we lost confidence in his ability to install this equipment himself We cannot help Mr [redacted] any further because he refuses to follow the instructions in the Owner’s Manual He is not respecting our Disclaimer or our Return Policy, or the manufacturer’s Owner’s Manual and WarrantyThe remedy for Mr [redacted] is to return the equipment to the manufacturer as previously instructed This is (and has been for many years) our policy as set forth in the Owner’s Manual & Warranty, our Return Policy and our Disclaimer

My wishes have come trueFinally, a solid answer (from [redacted] as well)My electrician knows more now than he did before and we'll sort through it from hereMy personal safety has never been an issue but thanks for the love and contacting United which evidently hadn't been tried before

This customer and his wife ordered several items from us in May of for their project of refurbishing an old wood hot tub We exchanged several emails in order to get a clear understanding of their needs, and to help them realize the scope of this endeavour The vinyl liner was the first part of the project They provided many dimensions and the liner was custom made for them In June of 2014, they purchased the electronic controller, pump and free-standing electric spa heater The first problem came as they were trying to install the liner in their tub They claimed that it had been manufactured wrong When we offered to repair or replace it, they refused to return the original liner to the manufacturer and expected them to guess as to the problem Long story made short, they filed a complaint with the Revdex.com It was investigated and dismissed with no action taken (ID [redacted] filed 7/16/14) We made every possible effort to communicate by phone and email to assist him with the installation of his liner and the other equipment purchased We called his electrician (at our expense) several times to help him understand the electrical requirements for this projectWe were not aware that he was having difficulties with the installation of his equipment until we received a cc of his email to the manufacturer in March of It appears that he was no longer using the electrician to whom we had given instructions, but was now dealing with another installer and the factory directly The original plan was to install the 11kw heater using a separate GFCI circuit breaker, since this large-capacity heater is a stand-alone system with it’s own power source, pressure switch and thermostat It should be activated by a relay (DPDT) The [redacted] controller is not designed to run the 11kw heaterIt is to activate the relay that runs the heater on a separate circuit and GFCI We will be happy to give this information to his current electrician We have had no phone calls or emails from this customer since July of 2014, with the exception of a CC of his email complaint to the manufacturer last month The equipment was not ill advised Had he installed it as directed by our technician, it would be more than adequate to heat his tubWe have recommended this same set up on other installations with no problems This customer has been advised of our Disclaimer ( [redacted] ) and it is posted on our web pagesWe knew he had initially secured a professional electrician for help with his project, but then apparently he let him go for some reason All equipment purchased had a month warranty, which is now expired

I am rejecting this response because: they have no grounds for their assertionsThe plumbing is the same as purchased some years ago Their suggestion that I plumbed it wrong does not stand They suggest this as a invalid attempt to shift the blame elsewhere As previously noted in my past correspondences and as printed and displayed on their very own website, the controller heat exchanger (large tube through which the spa water passes) is NON-DIRECTIONAL I simply does not mater where the water enters and where it leaves It works either way.As to the wiring they allude to, it is, and always has been, GFI protected at the main panel in the garage, and GFI protected at the remote breaker box installed solely for the hot tub They are blindly grasping for anything to say to possibly write to pad out their response See the inclusion in one of their previous of their entire catalogue as part of their response, running to more that pages of xerox copies of their sales pitch which had, and have, no bearing.I expressed earlier I have no faith in either the vendor or the manufacturer to provide an HONEST assessment of the defective merchandise and have no reason to believe either of the parties would budge from their "it's yours, too bad" attitudeTo suggest I ship the unit back to the maker is specious I would be without remedy or recourse when the problem was arbitrarily determined to be of my doing and I would be out no only the $for the initial purchase, but also liable for the shipping charges, and their $"inspection fee." That's just going from bad to unacceptable

September 20, Response to complaint from *** *** Pool Spa Help Complaint ID #11670883Mr*** first contacted us on March 10, 2016, describing his spa equipment and an ongoing, unpleasant experience with another supplier We evaluated his stated requirements and recommended a United
Spas CB controller with a Tpanel which he purchased from us on June 30, He next contacted us by email on July 18th, sending pictures and a description of his plumbing & electrical issues, asking for helpHis picture (#submitted 7/18) showed that his wiring was not color coded and that he had NOT installed the proper sub panel with GFCI protection as per the United Spas Installation & Service Manual which was sent to the customer along with the product (please see Pg of the Installation and Service Manual: http://www.unitedspacontrols.com/PDF/C5-B8-InstallServiceManual.pdf ) When our technician telephoned him on July 19th to explain this, it became apparent that Mr*** was not understanding the electrical requirements of this project and he was directed to contact a licensed electrical contractor to complete this crucial part of his installation. The customer replied on July 20th that “everything is inspected by a licensed contractor” and continued to request our help with his project By August 4th, he informed us that he was “still having issues with the controller and topside” so we forwarded his description of the problems to the manufacturer In an August 5th email, Mr*** admitted that he “can’t figure out which side of the pump(s) is coming or going” On August 8th, our technician again spoke to Mr*** by phone and helped explain the plumbing He was again advised to have a professional pool and/or spa technician help with his project.On August 11th, Mr*** emailed us that he still had problems and requested that we order a “pick up the equipment and replace it with something that works.” We then contacted the manufacturer (United Spas) and requested an RMA for the return of this equipment United Spas requested more information regarding the problems before issuing their Return Merchandise Authorization and we forwarded their questions to Mr***.Mr*** sent (by email on August 17th) a strongly worded reply that he expected us to send him a whole new replacement system or a full refund check, and then he would return the product for evaluation.On August 18th, 2016, we emailed him an RMA number (which had then been provided by United Spas) and instructions for returning the product for warranty evaluation He was advised that if no defect was found, there would be a $charge for testing plus the cost of any replacement parts that may have been damaged during his installation process We referred him to our Return Policy (http://www.poolspahelp.com/return_policy.htm) and to the Owner’s Manual which states the customer is responsible for shipping charges when returning a product under warranty( http://www.unitedspacontrols.com/warranty.html )Mr***’s complaint seems to be that our claim of providing help for the Do-It-Yourselfer was not sufficient in his instance In our defense, as stated on the front page of our web site (www.poolspahelp.com), our business is “ Tailored for the pool and hot tub spa owner and qualified do-it-yourselfer, we offer HELP (instructions, diagrams, pictures, charts) along with great deals on pool and hot tub spa parts, pool and hot tub spa equipment, pumps, filters, heaters, covers and more “ We did respond to this customer’s requests by email and by phone, on several occasions, in an attempt to help with his installation of the equipment It became apparent that he was not qualified to make the proper installation himself, and for his safety, we advised him to procure a professional Electrical connections are not to be taken lightly and it is our policy to not discuss wiring by phone or with an obviously unqualified individual Mr*** was referred to our Disclaimer and reminded that it is represented on each page of our web site (http://www.poolspahelp.com/disclaimer.htm ).We are emailing you email communications which were exchanged with Mr*** and with United Spas in his behalf(in separate emails)As per our Return Policy (http://www.poolspahelp.com/return_policy.htm ), electronic equipment is not returnable unless defective It is our standard operating policy to issue a Return Merchandise Authorization (provided by the manufacturer) when returning any electronic equipment under warranty It is the standard operating policy of United Spas to require the return of any equipment for testing before repair (or replacement at their discretion) Mr*** should use the RMA to return his equipment for evaluation

The correct components have been sold to the customer. An electrician must make the installation because there are separate circuits, each protected by it’s own GFCI within the subpanelThe wiring from the United CC controller must go to a contactor in a separate sub panel which supplies the heater from the heater’s GFCIThe proper wire size must be determined; the distance from the main panel to the sub panel, and much more, is all important data to be considered. The plumbing configuration in this system is another facet which has not been provided to us We have spoken to *** at *** ***s and confirmed that the CC controller can run a relay to supply the free-standing electric heater. It appears that the customer has misinformed *** *** regarding his system He assumes that we already know how the first electrician installed the heater, and he refuses to give us any pictures or schematics of the project. We have had NO contact with his installer, by phone or by email, which leads us to suspect that the customer still intends to make the installation himselfIt is obvious that this customer does not have sufficient knowledge of electricity. At this point, we will communicate only by email with this customer’s electrician. For the man’s own safety, we will not provide any further information to him. DISCLAIMER: This information is presented for the qualified do-it-yourselfer who needs some help either troubleshooting , repairing, or installing new equipment in their own hot tub, spa, or swimming poolHere we are assuming that if you have chosen to work on your own unit, or equipment, you have a knowledge of electricity and are aware that certain safety precautions are necessaryIf you are in doubt as to how to properly troubleshoot , repair or install new equipment in your specific unit ,or, after starting the project you find you are in doubt, please contact a local licensed pool or spa professional in your areaUse any of the information herein AT YOUR OWN RISK, including information given by telephone or emailWe are only human and we do make mistakesGet the sense of what you're doing and BE CAREFULWe will not be held liable for any injuries or damage that may result from the troubleshooting or installation of any parts or equipment, or inadequate results from any project

My wishes have come true. Finally, a solid answer (from [redacted] as well). My electrician knows more now than he did before and we'll sort through it from here. My personal safety has never been an issue but thanks for the love and contacting United which evidently hadn't been tried before.

We insisted that Mr. [redacted] submit his issues by email from the beginning.  He sent pictures to us when asking for our help with the wiring. We responded by email and referred him to the Owner’s Manual.  All  of the correspondence was included with our first reply to the Revdex.com. Mr. [redacted] plumbed his pump to suck water rather than to blow water through the controller, making it impossible for it to function.  He has refused to wire his unit as shown in the Owner’s Manual for GFI protection.  These are just two reasons why we lost confidence in his ability to install this equipment himself.  We cannot help Mr. [redacted] any further because he refuses to follow the instructions in the Owner’s Manual.  He is not respecting our Disclaimer or our Return Policy, or the manufacturer’s Owner’s Manual and Warranty. The remedy for Mr. [redacted] is to return the equipment to the manufacturer as previously instructed.  This is (and has been for many years) our policy as set forth in the Owner’s Manual & Warranty, our Return Policy and our Disclaimer.

This customer and his wife ordered several items from us in May of 2014 for their project of refurbishing an old wood hot tub.  We exchanged several emails in order to get a clear understanding of their needs, and to help them realize the scope of this endeavour.  The vinyl liner was the...

first part of the project.  They provided many dimensions and the liner was custom made for them.  In June of 2014, they purchased the electronic controller, pump and free-standing electric spa heater.   The first problem came as they were trying to install the liner in their tub.  They claimed that it had been manufactured wrong.  When we offered to repair or replace it, they refused to return the original liner to the manufacturer and expected them to guess as to the problem.  Long story made short, they filed a complaint with the Revdex.com.  It was investigated and dismissed with no action taken (ID [redacted] filed 7/16/14).   We made every possible effort to communicate by phone and email to assist him with the installation of his liner and the other equipment purchased.  We called his electrician (at our expense) several times to help him understand the electrical requirements for this project. We were not aware that he was having difficulties with the installation of his equipment until we received a cc of his email to the manufacturer in March of 2016.  It appears that he was no longer using the electrician to whom we had given instructions, but was now dealing with another installer and the factory directly.   The original plan was to install the 11kw heater using a separate GFCI circuit breaker, since this large-capacity heater is a stand-alone system with it’s own power source, pressure switch and thermostat.  It should be activated by a relay (DPDT).  The [redacted] controller is not designed to run the 11kw heater. It is to activate the relay that runs the heater on a separate circuit and GFCI.  We will be happy to give this information to his current electrician.  We have had no phone calls or emails from this customer since July of 2014, with the exception of a CC of his email complaint to the manufacturer last month.  The equipment was not ill advised.  Had he installed it as directed by our technician, it would be more than adequate to heat his tub. We have recommended this same set up on other installations with no problems.  This customer has been advised of our Disclaimer ([redacted] ) and it is posted on our web pages. We knew he had initially secured a professional electrician for help with his project, but then apparently he let him go for some reason.  All equipment purchased had a 12 month warranty, which is now expired.

I am rejecting this response because: The manufacturer of the controller has unequivocally stated that the controller we were supplied is not designed to used with any heater but their own or an external GAS heater. The reason for the time delay in contact has to do with fruitlessly replacing EVERY component of the entire pak BEFORE REALIZING THE EQUIPMENT WAS MISMATCHED. An electrician need not be coaxed to pair equipment not meant to be paired.

Review: Having purchased new equipment for our redwood hot tub rebuild from this vendor, we are 18 mos out on diagnosing electrical problems and have just recently and painfully found out why. The model selection and pairing of different manufacturers' components (EXPERTLY provided by them with full knowledge of our requirements) was ill advised and not a compatible system with respect to manufacturers' suggested uses. Attempts to contact have fallen on deaf ears either by us as the purchasers and/or numerous service personnel that have tried to solve our issues.Desired Settlement: If there is a solution to our issues with existing equipment we need to hear what it is. If indeed the equipment is incompatible as selected by them, we seek correction of the situation with components that are... at this vendors expense.

Business

Response:

This customer and his wife ordered several items from us in May of 2014 for their project of refurbishing an old wood hot tub. We exchanged several emails in order to get a clear understanding of their needs, and to help them realize the scope of this endeavour. The vinyl liner was the first part of the project. They provided many dimensions and the liner was custom made for them. In June of 2014, they purchased the electronic controller, pump and free-standing electric spa heater. The first problem came as they were trying to install the liner in their tub. They claimed that it had been manufactured wrong. When we offered to repair or replace it, they refused to return the original liner to the manufacturer and expected them to guess as to the problem. Long story made short, they filed a complaint with the Revdex.com. It was investigated and dismissed with no action taken (ID [redacted] filed 7/16/14). We made every possible effort to communicate by phone and email to assist him with the installation of his liner and the other equipment purchased. We called his electrician (at our expense) several times to help him understand the electrical requirements for this project. We were not aware that he was having difficulties with the installation of his equipment until we received a cc of his email to the manufacturer in March of 2016. It appears that he was no longer using the electrician to whom we had given instructions, but was now dealing with another installer and the factory directly. The original plan was to install the 11kw heater using a separate GFCI circuit breaker, since this large-capacity heater is a stand-alone system with it’s own power source, pressure switch and thermostat. It should be activated by a relay (DPDT). The [redacted] controller is not designed to run the 11kw heater. It is to activate the relay that runs the heater on a separate circuit and GFCI. We will be happy to give this information to his current electrician. We have had no phone calls or emails from this customer since July of 2014, with the exception of a CC of his email complaint to the manufacturer last month. The equipment was not ill advised. Had he installed it as directed by our technician, it would be more than adequate to heat his tub. We have recommended this same set up on other installations with no problems. This customer has been advised of our Disclaimer ([redacted] ) and it is posted on our web pages. We knew he had initially secured a professional electrician for help with his project, but then apparently he let him go for some reason. All equipment purchased had a 12 month warranty, which is now expired.

Consumer

Response:

I am rejecting this response because: The manufacturer of the controller has unequivocally stated that the controller we were supplied is not designed to used with any heater but their own or an external GAS heater. The reason for the time delay in contact has to do with fruitlessly replacing EVERY component of the entire pak BEFORE REALIZING THE EQUIPMENT WAS MISMATCHED. An electrician need not be coaxed to pair equipment not meant to be paired.

Business

Response:

The correct components have been sold to the customer. An electrician must make the installation because there are 2 separate circuits, each protected by it’s own GFCI within the subpanel. The wiring from the United CC controller must go to a contactor in a separate sub panel which supplies the heater from the heater’s GFCI. The proper wire size must be determined; the distance from the main panel to the sub panel, and much more, is all important data to be considered. The plumbing configuration in this system is another facet which has not been provided to us. We have spoken to [redacted] at [redacted]s and confirmed that the CC controller can run a relay to supply the free-standing electric heater. It appears that the customer has misinformed [redacted] regarding his system. He assumes that we already know how the first electrician installed the heater, and he refuses to give us any pictures or schematics of the project. We have had NO contact with his installer, by phone or by email, which leads us to suspect that the customer still intends to make the installation himself. It is obvious that this customer does not have sufficient knowledge of electricity. At this point, we will communicate only by email with this customer’s electrician. For the man’s own safety, we will not provide any further information to him. DISCLAIMER: This information is presented for the qualified do-it-yourselfer who needs some help either troubleshooting , repairing, or installing new equipment in their own hot tub, spa, or swimming pool. Here we are assuming that if you have chosen to work on your own unit, or equipment, you have a knowledge of electricity and are aware that certain safety precautions are necessary. If you are in doubt as to how to properly troubleshoot , repair or install new equipment in your specific unit ,or, after starting the project you find you are in doubt, please contact a local licensed pool or spa professional in your area. Use any of the information herein AT YOUR OWN RISK, including information given by telephone or email. We are only human and we do make mistakes. Get the sense of what you're doing and BE CAREFUL. We will not be held liable for any injuries or damage that may result from the troubleshooting or installation of any parts or equipment, or inadequate results from any project.

Consumer

Response:

My wishes have come true. Finally, a solid answer (from [redacted] as well). My electrician knows more now than he did before and we'll sort through it from here. My personal safety has never been an issue but thanks for the love and contacting United which evidently hadn't been tried before.

I am very disappointed in how this whole process has gone.
I talked to [redacted] and the tech before starting the project to make sure everything was going to work together. I was told it would be set up for my 120 volt equipment and include the 1 1/2" plumbing prior to shipment.
Upon ordering, I was told it would be two extra days to ship the controller do to stocking issues. The controller was out of stock and that took an extra week and half to arrive.
Once received I discovered the incorrect connectors were shipped, I contacted the company about the connectors and it took a week and a half to get the correct ones. I didn't discover the controller was not set for 120 volts until after receiving the other parts so I could continue my project.
Thinking I would now be able to replace my controller I discover the controller is not compatible with 120 volt power without replacing the transformer inside the unit. I am now on hold again waiting on the transformer, they are sending it Monday I should have it Thursday.
They made it sound like they were doing me a favor by sending me the correct transformer at no charge by priority mail, I think it should have been sent next day or overnight due to their errors not mine.
This situation would be different if I had assumed this would work and just ordered it but I inquired and was told every thing would be ready to install and nothing was as I ordered it.
I guess shopping for the best price is not always the best way to go, my local spa store would have been about $100 more but my project would have been complete 3 weeks ago.

Review: We confidently proceeded with a rebuild of an aged redwood hot tub with this merchant because they specialize in this almost extinct service. Bolstered by their informational website and assurances that they'd be there for us through the process, we ordered a complete spa pak and new vinyl liner from them as well as all the install trim and accessories. Total spent approaches two thousand dollars. The liner arrived well before we were ready for it as every step in the process was slow to resolve and our efforts to get help from PSH were marginal... us slugging out most of the details ourselves with info we had to research. The expensive liner did not and does not fit properly by their own admission but after several pointless email exchanges wanting a replacement sent, we have been told to send it in at OUR expense for an evaluation at the factory to see if they made it according to THEIR specs based on our measurements. If it's determined they made it as their guidelines suggest, we are out the shipping both ways, the time related and will have to accept an inferior NEW liner. This is not our issue and yet we are being held responsible and punished for nothing that as yet has been pointed out to us as a mistake. Further, after all the coaching and support they advertise on their site and via phone related to do-it-yourself, they have now refused to give any info or tips on even how we are to remove it without damage for forwarding to the factory. We have been referred to their disclaimer as to that request. We are owed a new liner and should not have to jump through all the hoops unassisted by this vendor and tortured by their supplier. Thank you.Desired Settlement: The faults and shortages of the defective piece have been thoroughly photographed and forwarded to the parties. We have re submitted all measurements for verification. They have admitted it fits badly at the mid tub perimeter but insist that if the factory messed up we have to do all the legwork to get it there and then trust a fair evaluation. We volunteered all services as to measurements we could submit from 1st liner but were flatly denied. We want a new liner promptly as good business.

Business

Response:

The customer was given instructions for sending the liner back to the manufacturer. If the liner was not made according to the measurements submitted by the customer, then it will be replaced at no charge. We will also reimburse his shipping charge for returning the liner.

If the liner is found to have been made to the measurements submitted by the customer, then the fault lies with the customer and there will be no replacement under warranty.

The emails exchanged between us are being forwarded to you by a separate email.