Predator Inc

Mr*** does not have a written agreement or contract with us to provide a roof rackHe asked for us to produce one for himAfter we looked into manufacturing one for him we decided we could not provide a roof rack for him in his time frame and at our high quality standardsWe informed him
we could not meet his needsAlthough he has implied that he purchased a roof rack from us and has sent funds to us, he has notWe have not received any funds nor charged him any money for a product we told him we could not produce for him. I will assume this case closed as we have no obligation to Mr*** and have informed him months back that we could not nor would produce the part he is asking for. Thank you

Revdex.com:
I have reviewed the response made by the business in reference to complaint ID [redacted], and have determined that this proposed action would not resolve my complaint.  For your reference, details of the offer I reviewed appear below.
As one can clearly see, I do have a contract and/or written agreement for the roof rack (SEE attachment), which was signed and sent to Predator O/A 27 May 2016. Though it is true that money never exchanged hands, that does not void the contract/written agreement. I never "implied" I had sent them any funds as Predator stated payment would be due prior to shipment. The roof rack itself is not "produced" by Predator, but a third party roof rack modified by Predator. There was no stated "timeline" and this Revdex.com complaint was filed after Predator stated they would not honor the written agreement. I felt it would be better to attempt to resolve this matter without having to involve legal proceedings and am thus allowing Predator the opportunity to live up to their legal obligation though based upon the deceptive reply that may be my only recourse.
Regards,
[redacted]

Review: On May 7, 2013, I purchased a transfer case from Predator through [redacted]. At the time I purchased this transfer case, it was not stated that these were rebuilt transfer cases. I did not send in my old transfer case. I was not aware these were rebuilt transfer cases. By early September 2013, there was a severe knock coming from the transfer case, among other issues.

After extensive investigation (and paid labor) by [redacted] at [redacted]’s [redacted] in Lawrence, Kansas, it was determined that the transfer case was slipping in and out of two wheel drive and into four wheel drive. It was not immediately evident but was later discovered that it was damaging other parts of the vehicle.

I contacted Predator and Predator suggested removing the transfer case and sending it in for their inspection which I did. On November 1, 2013, Predator's employee; [redacted] sent an email stating that the internal differential in the transfer case was faulty and it would be covered under warranty. Predator has since sent the transfer case back, supposedly repaired.

Upon further investigation of the operation of the [redacted] H1, I have learned that these transfer cases (with 2WD option) are evidently not appropriate for [redacted]s. I quote the AMG tech from [redacted] in Oshkosh, WI: “I don`t recommend them due to the fact that the vehicle was designed with the wheel base being what it is and the wheels being out at all four corners. You need the vehicle to be all wheel drive all the time. People say to swap them out and it will save mileage, which is crap. The drive-ability of the [redacted] is changed. Those t-cases were never designed for a [redacted]. It makes sense that some damage would happen (if it slips out of 2wd) especially at highway speeds.”

My mechanic; [redacted], who has worked on H1s for years, including during his time in the military, says that the H1 is designed to run the front right and rear left wheel hubs during normal operation, until such time as the 4WD is needed, when the posi-track kicks in. That is why my front right hub assembly is trashed, as is my left rear hub assembly. My front and rear differentials are also damaged due to the defective transfer case and need replacement.

Suffice to say, I am very unhappy with Predator for several reasons. I was mislead by false advertising. Nowhere in the description of the Predator TC did it say these were rebuilt transfer cases. I was sold (by Predator employee own admission) defective parts which did not function properly and I have now seen considerable damage to my vehicle due to this defect. Further, I have been told by experts these transfer cases should not be installed in the [redacted] H1.Desired Settlement: 1. I will send the Predator TC back to Predator and expect Predator Inc. to give me a full refund for that TC, including shipping costs. I am purchasing a standard [redacted] TC at a cost of $2,200 and installation on that will be $1,000. I have already spent $1,000 removing the Predator and re-installing my old TC.

2. I am replacing the front right hub assembly at a cost of $1,646 with labor expected to be $180. I expect Predator Inc. to reimburse me for these costs.

3. I am replacing the rear left hub assembly at a cost of $1,646 with labor expected to be $180. I expect Predator Inc. to reimburse me for these costs

4. I am replacing the front differential at a cost of $1,200 with labor expected to be $360. I expect Predator Inc. to reimburse me for these costs

5. I am replacing the rear differential at a cost of $1,200 with labor expected to be $360. I expect Predator Inc. to reimburse me for these costs

6. I do not have estimated shipping costs on these items, but expect Predator, Inc. to reimburse me for those costs as well.

Business

Response:

Revdex.com Complaint ID: [redacted]

In Reference to: [redacted]

Product Issues

To Whom It May Concern:

My name is [redacted] and I am a Customer Support Representative at Predator

[redacted] Inc. I will do my best to respond to your letter.

Regarding the claim of a rebuilt transfer case, we do advertise on our site that it is a

rebuilt transfer case and in no way feel we have misled anyone. I believe that [redacted]

Parts [redacted] does the same, however you should discuss this point further with him as we

did not sell the transfer case directly to you.

The information from [redacted] is inaccurate and looks to be based on his

assumptions. He stated to you that these transfer cases were not designed for the [redacted]

when in fact they were designed for the [redacted]. We add in the ability to select 2wd

in addition to the factory setting of all wheel drive in the original AMG 242 Transfer

Case. The statement that he made relating to "the wheel base being what it is" makes no

sense on how the addition of 2wd to the stock transfer case would not work. My question

would be how does it specifically harm the truck. The truth is that it would not harm

the truck. In addition to this, there are factory versions of the NP242 Transfer Case that

are also 2wd like our conversion we offer. HPG is correct about the drivability being

changed, you now have the option of having 2wd in addition to 4wd etc. It gives the

operator more options.

I am not aware of [redacted] or his service center, however based on their website

and advertising they are an import car company and not a [redacted] Service Center.

When I spoke to him, he contradicted himself on several occasions as to the cause of the

damage and could not accurately explain how it would even be possible to scratch the

front and rear differentials nor create backlash inside the front right or rear left geared

hubs. In addition to that why is he attempting to replace the entire geared hub when it

could easily be rebuilt with new gears? It just does not make logical sense. I suspect that

his profit would increase through additional sales especially with the up sale of an entire

geared hub and not a simple rebuild.

Just think about the logic behind [redacted]'s claim. You’re driving down the road in 2wd

and let’s say it inadvertently shifts to 4wd. When this happens, you already have both

differentials and all geared hubs traveling at the same speed. They still turn going down

the road with all 4 wheels. The only difference is now power shifts from 100% to the

rear diff and hubs to roughly 50% to the rear and 50% to the front. When the transfer

of power occurs, while shifting from 2WD to 4WD, there is no sudden mass of power.

Distributing power to both the front and rear instantaneously from 2wd is not going to

scar the differentials nor would it increase play in the geared hubs. It just doesn’t work

that way. Now for the sake of argument, let's say you state that it would be possible to

cause damage, this would require you to somehow isolate the front wheels from spinning

while driving, then shift power from the rear traveling at a considerable speed to the

front. However, that’s not possible as all 4 wheels are on the ground traveling at the same

speed. Additionally, some type of violent action like this would most definitely detonate

the transfer case considering that is where the connection and distribution of power takes

place, not at the differentials and two geared hubs. I cannot see any connection here.

Furthermore, if such an action is possible, why would the two strongest components

on the vehicle, the geared hubs and differentials, be damaged while the two weakest

engineered points on the vehicle, the U-joints and half shafts not fail? The reason for this

is it’s not possible.

The real cause of your concerns, likely just came from wear and tear on the components.

The front and rear geared hubs, as stated, are your drive hubs. Meaning, that's where the

power goes too. Just normal everyday driving and offroading is going to put pressure on

these components. A transfer of power from front to rear would not cause premature wear

as [redacted] is stating. It’s not logical.

[redacted] had stated that he measured wear before installing the transfer case and after

the problem occurred and has all of this documented along with video and images. He

stated he would send it to me; however we have not received anything from him to date.

Additionally, with normal wear on the vehicle there would be play and wear present in

the geared hubs, [redacted] had stated there was none present. This is not possible. I also find

it odd that he would open up the geared hubs before and after to measure wear. That is

not a normal procedure for [redacted] technicians and would amount to a great deal of

work, increasing labor hours and cost to you. It’s similar to stating that we would tear

down your engine to inspect it at regular service intervals. I just don’t understand this

procedure.

Without logical reasoning here I cannot accept fault for the stated damages that have

nothing to do with the transfer case that you purchased from [redacted].

As the manufacturer of the product you purchased I am more than happy to talk with you

in depth about this and try to come to a reasonable resolution. If you would like to inquire

about a refund that would have to go through [redacted] as you purchased the

product directly from them. I would still like to see the images and video [redacted] promised

to be able to see visual of the issues you have stated.

Consumer Support Manager

Predator [redacted] Inc.

Consumer

Response:

I have reviewed the response made by the business in reference to complaint ID [redacted], and have determined that this proposed action would not resolve my complaint. For your reference, details of the offer I reviewed appear below.

RESPONSE TO PREDATOR

I received the response today (December 19, 2013) via the Revdex.com and

was not surprised by it because it is almost verbatim what Predator wrote to me, only

not through [redacted], who is a sales guy, but through its president; [redacted].

What is odd about the response is that Predator tries to discredit the advice given to me

through [redacted] Parts Guy; a company that sells parts exclusively for the [redacted] H1

and military Humvee. The gentleman who gave the advice on this situation and said he

did not believe the Predator transfer case was meant for the H 1 was [redacted] Service Tech and Certified AMG Technician. This gentleman works on

H1s every day. He has said through [redacted] Parts Guy that he deals frequently with

the "custom" parts sold and installed by Predator. He calls those trucks "boomerang

trucks" and says that people come into his shop all of time asking him to repair the

issues caused by the Predator parts. [redacted] is the owner of [redacted] Parts Guy

and has been very helpful and informative regarding Predator.

[redacted]; whom Predator dismisses as an imports repair person, worked on the

military Humvee during his time in the military and continues to work on the H1 in

civilian life. Predator asks why he would replace the geared hubs instead of rebuild

them saying he must be trying to boost his sales. This is counter intuitive, as I

purchased the parts direct, not through [redacted]'s shop, and had he said it was better to

rebuild, the labor he could have charged would have been much higher than what he

charged to install the new assembled hubs. [redacted] is an honest hard working guy.

Predator further takes no responsibility for the damage to the hubs and front and rear

differentials, saying it's just not possible damage to those parts came from the faulty

transfer case. Rather they say it is just from "wear and tear" to the components. This is

comical. So, it was a complete coincidence that the right front hub, the left rear hub, the

front differential and the rear differential all went out right after the loud knocking sound

came from the transfer case? What a strange coincidence! The fact is, the transfer

case was faulty, was going in and out of 2wd and stripped the gears in the hubs and

differentials.

[redacted] did have video of the damage to the hubs and differentials as well as the transfer

case locking in and out of 2wd. Unfortunately he took the video on his phone and his

phone died shortly after the video was taken and he had to replace the phone, so the

video was lost. Predator discredits [redacted] for not showing the video and discredits

[redacted] for contradicting himself. Again, [redacted] served our country in the military

and worked on the military Humvee during that time, so I would take his word over

Predator. [redacted] has nothing to gain by making the claims he has made. It's pretty

obvious why Predator would deny responsibility.

Predator says they can't discuss a refund, because the transfer case was sold through

[redacted] Parts Club. And yet, they took the transfer case back, admitted it was faulty

and repaired it and sent it back to me paying for shipping both ways. To me, this clearly

admits fault and establishes that they felt they needed to make amends for the bad part.

Further, Predator says that they say clearly on the web site that these are 'rebuilt"

transfer cases. I cannot find the word rebuilt anywhere on the page. (I did notice that

their website has changed dramatically since I purchased the TC.) Also, Predator

supposedly says it would have been obvious it was rebuilt because they say you have

to send in your own transfer case to get it rebuilt into the Predator TC with 2wd selector.

I did not send in my transfer case. I still have it. They sent me what appeared to be a

new transfer case.

All of this tells me that Predator is deceitful in its advertising, selling faulty parts and not

willing to stand behind something that evidently is not meant for the H 1 trucks.

In the response, "[redacted]" says he is "more than happy to talk" with me "in depth about this

and try to come to a reasonable solution." And yet, there is no offer to refund my money

or cover any of my damages. I would like to hear what Predator believes is a fair

resolution. I have never sued anyone in my life, but I believe Predator knows it is in the

wrong here and needs to take responsibility for the faulty part and damages in some

way.

I did not reinstall the Predator transfer case that Predator sent to me and also still have

my old transfer case. I'm sure Predator could re-sell both of these items to some other

unsuspecting H1 owner for a nice profit. I think they originally said they would pay

something like $200 for the old transfer case. They would rebuild it and tum around and

sell it for $2499. And the Predator TC is still in the wrapping they sent it in. I wonder

how many of these they sell a year and how many have come back or ruined other

trucks? I think they could make me an offer to drop this, but I haven't heard what that

offer might be. Let's hear it. I'm not going away.

Business

Response:

Revdex.com Complaint ID: [redacted]

In Reference to: [redacted]

To Whom It May Concern:

Predator Motorsports has reviewed Mr. [redacted]’s response in regards to the Predator 2WD/4WD Transfer Case. We are standing by our original statement in reference to the damage the customer states have occurred due to a faulty transfer case. I have spoken to Mr. S[redacted] from Tustin Hummer, one of the best Hummer technicians in the industry, stating “It is not possible for damage to occur in the geared hubs due to a transfer case or internal transfer case issues.” [redacted] also stated that he was contacted by Hummer Parts Guy and asked a very open ended question of “would you install a Predator 2WD/4WD transfer case in a Hummer?” [redacted] answered no and that is how it was left. I am not sure who is giving him this information he has received but it seems to be incorrect.

We are one the world’s most known and trusted Hummer repair and upgrade companies. We have been in business since 1999 and have sold many of these upgraded transfer cases since we released them to the market. Never have we had damage to the vehicle due to the transfer case. The transfer case would not cause this damage as it would completely destroy itself internally if something major was to happen.

We did a warranty repair on the transfer case originally and sent it back to the customer repaired. We have still not seen any proof, such as documentation, pictures, or video from the customer to prove there is damage to the vehicle and proof it was caused by the transfer case. The damage the customer has described is due to normal wear and tear on the vehicle, as it is an older vehicle.

In regards to the advertising and website portion of this complaint goes we have not falsely advertised any item on our website or in publications. Our website has not changed as I am in charge of the website and any updates done to it. We will be revamping the website in the near future but as of yet it has not changed.

The customer bought this item from a company that we are a vendor for. As he did not purchase this item directly from us and we cannot issue any type of refund to the customer. If he wishes to inquire about a refund he will have to contact the company he originally purchased it from.

We stand behind our original statement as one of the worlds most known Hummer repair and upgrade companies in the world that it is not possible for all of these issues to occur due to a faulty transfer case.

Consumer Support Manager