The Customer called us to get a quote to replace a starter motor in her vehicle We gave her the price and scheduled an appointment to evaluate the starting issue she was having The day the car was at the shop we did not have ANY starting issues Every time we turned the key it started Because of this there is no way we would be able to find the issue We called the Customer and told her we had no issuesThe customer requested that we replace the starter motor knowing that it might not fix her issueOn the Final Invoice we typed under the Labor line, "Replace starter - Did not experience a no start condition - Replace starter per Customer request."As to the remote start issue All of the wiring for a remote start system is in the passenger compartment of the vehicle The work we did on replacing the starter motor took place in the engine compartmentThere is no way the we could have done anything to make the remote start system not work It is physically impossible.Since we told the Customer that there was no way to confirm that the starter was the problem, because we had NO starting issues I do not feel we are at fault in any way
Since this issue is basically turning into a he said/she scenario I will just refund Ms [redacted] the $that was charged to replace the Starter Motor on her vehicle I in no way feel that we were at fault or did anything deceptive.I do feel the need to respond to a few other things she mentioned since these issues are available for anyone to read on the Revdex.com website I feel it is important to have full and correct information available for any future readers.Ms [redacted] wrote the following - "With regard to the remote start, I have attached the guide for it, which includes installation instructionsOn page 25, in the section for Manual Transmission Features, it specifically mentions a “tach wire” being connectedAdditionally, on page 29, the installation guide instructs that a wire in the harness be connected to the starter wireHowever, using common sense, it would only be logical, simple, and basic that a remote STARTER is connected in some manner to the CAR STARTER."If your Remote Start was installed by someone that had access to specific wiring diagrams for your vehicle they would have hooked the wire for the Starter at the Underdash Fuse/Relay box: Connector 419, pin 4(I have attached the diagram for your vehicle) When you turn the key on your car you are actually sending power to the Starter Solenoid The Starter Solenoid creates a magnetic field that closes an internal relay of the Starter that allows full battery power to flow to the Starter Motor itselfThe Tach Wire should have also been hooked up at Main Wiring Harness: Connector This connector is located just to the right and slightly above the Underdash Fuse/Relay Box (I have provided both the diagram for this circuit and an image of where it is located)These locations are the best/most common/most logical places to make these connections for multiple reasons The Remote Starter unit is mounted under the dash within 18" of the Fuse/Relay box so no additional wiring will be needed other than what is provided, making the connections inside the vehicle eliminates any issues of corrosion that could develop since the connections will not be made with the same weatherproof materials that the Vehicle manufacturer uses when the vehicle is built, it is the most efficient/shortest install time, and it does not require any additional holes to be drilled in the vehicle firewall to run wiring to the engine compartment.She also wrote this-"Even in a previous Revdex.com complaint where this vendor actually DID admit fault, he requested the complaint be removed so that no other potential victims could see his rapacious historySadly, it seems that Mr [redacted] would rather victimize his customers and fight them rather than learn the lesson, admit wrong, and stop taking advantage of opportunities to upsell unnecessarily"With regard to the issue you are referencing, I did admit fault to charging the customer $then I was legally allowed by the State of Ohio I DID NOT request that the Complaint by him be removed The part you are not aware of is that this person also threatened to sue me for approx$plus any Attorney fees he might incur The letter from his Attorney also said that I could could contact them and possible "settle" the issue to avoid the lawsuit I did have to settle this issue and write a Substantial check to him over the $ In the previous matter I was victimizedPart of the Settlement was that I required him to contact the the Revdex.com and insure that the case was "Complaint resolved through Revdex.com process" I have no problem with the complaint being on the Revdex.com website because I feel we acted in a honest manner with this Customer.As I stated in the beginning of this, I will refund Ms [redacted] the $and send the check to the address we have listed in our computer system I will not apologize for anything other than our error in not providing a tow back to our shop when the vehicle did not start That issue has been discussed with the staff at both of my repair shops ad the procedure to follow in those situations has been clarified.This is the best that I am able to offer
Customer’s Statement of the Problem: I took my 2002 Ford Ranger to Clintonville Auto Repair for a coolant leak. I left the car there on Wednesday night (3/4) and deposited my key in the night drop box. On their form, I indicated that I required an oral estimate prior to any work being done.... They called me Thursday morning with an estimate. They told me that my coolant reservoir/tank needed replaced. Mark C. indicated that there was good news and bad news. There were no aftermarket part options but the Ford dealer had the part in stock. The bad news was the part would cost $150. The repair would cost a total of $300. I told him that I would think about it and call him back. I called back and Mark C. was at lunch. I talked to another employee and told him that I would not get the work done and that I would come pick up my car later that afternoon. He told me - "Alright, we'll put it back together" or word to that effect. End of conversation. I determined that the actual cost of the part was $82 and the time involved in replacing it was perhaps 30 minutes. I was not going to be gouged on price by them. I am unsure of where the Mr. [redacted] found an Dealer supplied part for $82.00. I did find a few on the Internet for between $81 and $94. These would, of course, take 3 to 5 days to arrive and I would still need to mark the final price of the part up some to make a profit. The “Dealer List” price for the part in Columbus, Ohio is $103.45. My cost on the part from the Ford Dealer is slightly less than their List price. Because I need to make a profit to stay in business we do mark parts up also. “ [redacted] List” for the needed part was $144.83 and we anticipated needing $8.50 in antifreeze/coolant. The time to replace the part, PLUS purging the cooling system of any air, PLUS a test drive to confirm that there were no other leaks and that the repair we made was made properly was estimated at 48 minutes. Our Estimate was $252.24 for the repair plus $56.70 for our Diagnostic time (30 minutes) to determine the source of the leak for a total bill of $308.94. This is far from gouging. When I went into pick up the truck, they presented me with a bill for $56.70; however, they never provided me with an oral estimate for "putting my truck back together." We did not charge you to “put your truck back together”. When you called to state you were not having it repaired you were told that we would get the truck ready to drive and park it out front. This process involved removing a Cooling System pressure tester, making sure the coolant level was the same as when it arrived, and replacing the cap on the tank. The Ohio Administrative Code governs auto repairs and service. Repairs and services are covered by O.A.C. 109:4-3-05 (all repairs and services) and by O.A.C. 109:4-3-13 (motor vehicle repairs and services). In general, the rules give consumers the right to a verbal or written estimate for repairs or services that will cost more than $25. The rules also require suppliers to obtain the consumer’s authorization for repairs or services that will cost more than 10 percent of the estimate. In any repair or service transaction, the supplier must disclose: Charges for disassembly or reassembly; Charges for work that only gets partially completed; Storage charges; Service charges, travel charges, charges for diagnosis; and Work that will be performed by a third party, if the supplier disclaims the warranty of that work. One of the additional rules is that if a supplier permits “night-drops”, in which consumers can drop off their vehicles for repair after business hours, the supplier must provide two forms stating the consumer’s right to an estimate. The consumer should be instructed to leave one form at the facility and to keep the other copy for him/herself. The form must identify the supplier and disclose the consumer’s right to an estimate. CARS violated these rules in three ways: 1 - They did not give me an estimate concerning re-assembly of my vehicle during my phone conversations with them. We did need to give you an Estimate for “re-assembly” since we did not charge you to “re-assemble anything. The charge that was billed to you was our charge to Diagnose the problem that the vehicle was brought in for. 2 - They never disclosed charges for re-assembly or disassembly of my vehicle; Again, we did not “disassemble” or “re-assemble” any part of your vehicle, at least in the conventional definitions of those words. We had to unscrew the pressure cap to install our tester to pressurize the system and then reinstall the cap after removing the tester. 3 - They did not provide two forms with their night drop paperwork as required by law. Under Ohio law, they are prohibited from charging me more than $25 for the work on my vehicle. This is correct and this is where the entire problem that Mr. [redacted] experienced happened. We do not provide an envelope that has a carbon tear away page. We always have excess envelopes in the bin so a Customer that wants one can take one for reference. Once I have used up the envelopes I have I will be investigating the additional cost to get the “appropriate” envelopes. The $25 charge (excluding Sales Tax) that we are limited to represents the amount 15 minutes of Diagnostic time. Other than plugging a tire there is not one thing I can do to a vehicle that costs less than $25. This dollar figure was originally codified in 1977 and would have represented approximately 30 minutes at that time. As Labor costs have increased over the years this “allowed” amount has not changed. Because of this I would be required to call every single one of my Customers that ‘Key dropped” their vehicle to get authorization to do anything. Those calls would begin at 6:30 am. This issue, brought by Mr. [redacted] , has actually prompted me to get signatures from 23 different Auto Repair shops in the area and I have met with my State Rep. Stephanie Kunze office to see what steps would be necessary to get this dollar increased to represent real costs in 2015. Desired Settlement: I request a refund of all charges beyond $25. I will write a check for $31.70. It will be mailed to the address I have listed on file upon receiving confirmation from the RevDex.com that this issue is "Complaint resolved with BBB assistance". I request that they conform to Ohio law requiring them to disclose re-assembly or disassembly charges to all future customers; This is not something I can do because we do not charge to re-assemble. We do provide Estimates to Diagnose our Customers concerns. This charge covers the time to correctly evaluate the issue and return the vehicle to the Customer in the condition it was received if they are not going to repair. they provide two copies of their night drop paperwork so that future consumers can reference document and have it in their possession after leaving their vehicle; As stated above, every Customer currently has the opportunity to take as many envelopes as they feel necessary and when I reorder replacements I will be sure to get the carbon, tear away style. I fear that this additional cost may force me to charge a “night drop” Customer more for their visit than a Customer that drops off during normal hours but that is yet to be seen. they obey Ohio law in the future by always giving the customer an estimate when requested. We do provide an Estimate when a Customer requests it. Every time and in the manner they request, Oral or Written.Failure to agree to these terms will result in a complaint filed with the Ohio Attorney General. Condescending responses will also result in this complaint being filed with the Ohio Attorney General. As an endnote I find it unfortunate that Mr. [redacted] did not take any steps to discuss this matter with us prior to filing this complaint. He had an opportunity when picking his vehicle up to say something. He had the opportunity to contact myself, or my Service Manager, by phone/email/in person to discuss this issue before filing the complaint. He did send us an email at 5:27pm the day his vehicle was picked up, 3/5/2015, but filed this complaint at some time prior to 7:47am on 3/6/2015. We did not even have a chance to respond to his concern before he bypassed that option and filed with the BBB.
Mr [redacted] ’s response to my complaint makes absolutely no logical sense, whatsoever First, I did call C.A.R.Sfor a quote to replace the starter on my vehicle – IF, after an evaluation, it was determined that a starter was neededAfter receiving the quote, I scheduled the appointment to EVALUATE the starter issue If I made “an appointment to evaluate the starting issue,” why and how would I demand that the starter be replaced, when said evaluation did not point toward a starter problem? [I changed “request” to “demand” since Mr [redacted] alludes that his staff will replace expensive car parts at customers’ whims regardless of their shop’s recommendations.] Mr [redacted] ’s staff should be far more expert than I am at diagnosing car problemsIf I was so hell-bent on replacing the starter, why did I submit to an evaluation appointment first, rather than just schedule an appointment to replace the starter at the onset of our interaction? Simply put, I would notOne does not walk into a dentist’s office and demand a crown without having an examination first (nor would any reputable dentist put in one blindly); the same holds true with an automobile evaluation However, since Mr [redacted] prefers to paint me as anxious to spend unnecessary money to replace my starter, I shall relive the history of this car issue in more detail: The issue began in January while I was teaching in IndianapolisMy car suddenly did not start after driving from class to the hotelAAA was called and, after trying to jump the car, it was towed to a local CARx for evaluationCARx determined it was a dead cell in my battery, and it was replaced Once back home in Columbus, the car failed to start againOn February 1, I took the car to [redacted] (who has done maintenance on my car for the past three years)The car started consistently while in their custody for three days, and there was no recommendation from their evaluation The starting issue happened several more times, and again, the car was taken to [redacted] on March Although it was frustrating that [redacted] could not find an issue, they did not recommend replacing the starter, nor did I duress their mechanics for a starter When I took my car to C.A.R.Sfor EVALUATION on March 27, manager [redacted] called to say that his mechanic checked all the wiring, and they could not find any other cause for my car failing to start; I was told that the problem was likely a “dead spot” in my starter, and that the intermittent problem would definitely continue until my starter was replacedTrusting their recommendation, I agreed to have the starter replacedConsidering the statement “per customer request” being added to the final invoice, OF COURSE I would request the starter be replaced IF IT WAS GOING TO FIX MY ISSUEFor Mr [redacted] to claim that my request had any other meaning is deliberately misleading, calculating, and completely dishonest Finally, on April 1, the car failed to start after the starter was replacedI phoned [redacted] and told to tow my car back to him at my own expenseThe rest of the story unfolded as in my original complaint I have attached copies of invoices from other evaluations that I had on my car without placing any unnecessary duress on those shops or begging them to take money for a starter that I did not need With regard to the remote start, I have attached the guide for it, which includes installation instructionsOn page 25, in the section for Manual Transmission Features, it specifically mentions a “tach wire” being connected Additionally, on page 29, the installation guide instructs that a wire in the harness be connected to the starter wireHowever, using common sense, it would only be logical, simple, and basic that a remote STARTER is connected in some manner to the CAR STARTER It is very disheartening that Mr [redacted] cannot simply admit that his staff made a mistake in diagnosis, unnecessarily (and maybe deliberately) charged me for the starter, and refund me the money for itMoreover, while I am not a mechanic, nor do I have extensive knowledge about cars, I am not stupid and know when I am being taken advantage ofMr [redacted] ’s response to my original complaint is insulting, and I now wish to add an apology to the list of remedies from this vendor The Revdex.com history and comments on Yelp! and other social media sites show a history of predatory practices with regard to “diagnosis” and repairEven in a previous Revdex.com complaint where this vendor actually DID admit fault, he requested the complaint be removed so that no other potential victims could see his rapacious historySadly, it seems that Mr [redacted] would rather victimize his customers and fight them rather than learn the lesson, admit wrong, and stop taking advantage of opportunities to upsell unnecessarily
I have negotiated a settlement with the business outside of the Revdex.com and find that settlement acceptable to me and which to resolve this Complaint. The company has requested that I request that this complaint be removed from your website
The Customer called us to get a quote to replace a starter motor in her vehicle. We gave her the price and scheduled an appointment to evaluate the starting issue she was having. The day the car was at the shop we did not have ANY starting issues. Every time we turned the key it...
started. Because of this there is no way we would be able to find the issue. We called the Customer and told her we had no issues. The customer requested that we replace the starter motor knowing that it might not fix her issue. On the Final Invoice we typed under the Labor line, "Replace starter - Did not experience a no start condition - Replace starter per Customer request."As to the remote start issue. All of the wiring for a remote start system is in the passenger compartment of the vehicle. The work we did on replacing the starter motor took place in the engine compartment. There is no way the we could have done anything to make the remote start system not work. It is physically impossible.Since we told the Customer that there was no way to confirm that the starter was the problem, because we had NO starting issues I do not feel we are at fault in any way.
Mr. [redacted]’s response to my complaint makes absolutely no logical sense, whatsoever.
First, I did call C.A.R.S. for a quote to replace the starter on my vehicle – IF, after an evaluation, it was determined that a starter was needed. After receiving the quote, I scheduled the appointment to EVALUATE the starter issue.
If I made “an appointment to evaluate the starting issue,” why and how would I demand that the starter be replaced, when said evaluation did not point toward a starter problem? [I changed “request” to “demand” since Mr. [redacted] alludes that his staff will replace expensive car parts at customers’ whims regardless of their shop’s recommendations.] Mr. [redacted]’s staff should be far more expert than I am at diagnosing car problems. If I was so hell-bent on replacing the starter, why did I submit to an evaluation appointment first, rather than just schedule an appointment to replace the starter at the onset of our interaction? Simply put, I would not. One does not walk into a dentist’s office and demand a crown without having an examination first (nor would any reputable dentist put in one blindly); the same holds true with an automobile evaluation.
However, since Mr. [redacted] prefers to paint me as anxious to spend unnecessary money to replace my starter, I shall relive the history of this car issue in more detail: The issue began in January 2015 while I was teaching in Indianapolis. My car suddenly did not start after driving from class to the hotel. AAA was called and, after trying to jump the car, it was towed to a local CARx for evaluation. CARx determined it was a dead cell in my battery, and it was replaced.
Once back home in Columbus, the car failed to start again. On February 1, I took the car to [redacted] (who has done maintenance on my car for the past three years). The car started consistently while in their custody for three days, and there was no recommendation from their evaluation.
The starting issue happened several more times, and again, the car was taken to [redacted] on March 22. Although it was frustrating that [redacted] could not find an issue, they did not recommend replacing the starter, nor did I duress their mechanics for a starter.
When I took my car to C.A.R.S. for EVALUATION on March 27, manager [redacted] called to say that his mechanic checked all the wiring, and they could not find any other cause for my car failing to start; I was told that the problem was likely a “dead spot” in my starter, and that the intermittent problem would definitely continue until my starter was replaced. Trusting their recommendation, I agreed to have the starter replaced. Considering the statement “per customer request” being added to the final invoice, OF COURSE I would request the starter be replaced IF IT WAS GOING TO FIX MY ISSUE. For Mr. [redacted] to claim that my request had any other meaning is deliberately misleading, calculating, and completely dishonest.
Finally, on April 1, the car failed to start after the starter was replaced. I phoned [redacted] and told to tow my car back to him at my own expense. The rest of the story unfolded as in my original complaint.
I have attached copies of invoices from other evaluations that I had on my car without placing any unnecessary duress on those shops or begging them to take money for a starter that I did not need.
With regard to the remote start, I have attached the guide for it, which includes installation instructions. On page 25, in the section for Manual Transmission Features, it specifically mentions a “tach wire” being connected.
Additionally, on page 29, the installation guide instructs that a wire in the harness be connected to the starter wire. However, using common sense, it would only be logical, simple, and basic that a remote STARTER is connected in some manner to the CAR STARTER.
It is very disheartening that Mr. [redacted] cannot simply admit that his staff made a mistake in diagnosis, unnecessarily (and maybe deliberately) charged me for the starter, and refund me the money for it. Moreover, while I am not a mechanic, nor do I have extensive knowledge about cars, I am not stupid and know when I am being taken advantage of. Mr. [redacted]’s response to my original complaint is insulting, and I now wish to add an apology to the list of remedies from this vendor.
The Revdex.com history and comments on Yelp! and other social media sites show a history of predatory practices with regard to “diagnosis” and repair. Even in a previous Revdex.com complaint where this vendor actually DID admit fault, he requested the complaint be removed so that no other potential victims could see his rapacious history. Sadly, it seems that Mr. [redacted] would rather victimize his customers and fight them rather than learn the lesson, admit wrong, and stop taking advantage of opportunities to upsell unnecessarily.
Since this issue is basically turning into a he said/she scenario I will just refund Ms. [redacted] the $335.97 that was charged to replace the Starter Motor on her vehicle. I in no way feel that we were at fault or did anything deceptive.I do feel the need to respond to a few other things she mentioned since these issues are available for anyone to read on the Revdex.com website. I feel it is important to have full and correct information available for any future readers.Ms. [redacted] wrote the following - "With regard to the remote start, I have attached the guide for it, which includes installation instructions. On page 25, in the section for Manual Transmission Features, it specifically mentions a “tach wire” being connected. Additionally, on page 29, the installation guide instructs that a wire in the harness be connected to the starter wire. However, using common sense, it would only be logical, simple, and basic that a remote STARTER is connected in some manner to the CAR STARTER."If your Remote Start was installed by someone that had access to specific wiring diagrams for your vehicle they would have hooked the wire for the Starter at the Underdash Fuse/Relay box: Connector 419, pin 4(I have attached the diagram for your vehicle). When you turn the key on your car you are actually sending power to the Starter Solenoid. The Starter Solenoid creates a magnetic field that closes an internal relay of the Starter that allows full battery power to flow to the Starter Motor itself. The Tach Wire should have also been hooked up at Main Wiring Harness: Connector 422. This connector is located just to the right and slightly above the Underdash Fuse/Relay Box. (I have provided both the diagram for this circuit and an image of where it is located)These locations are the best/most common/most logical places to make these connections for multiple reasons. The Remote Starter unit is mounted under the dash within 18" of the Fuse/Relay box so no additional wiring will be needed other than what is provided, making the connections inside the vehicle eliminates any issues of corrosion that could develop since the connections will not be made with the same weatherproof materials that the Vehicle manufacturer uses when the vehicle is built, it is the most efficient/shortest install time, and it does not require any additional holes to be drilled in the vehicle firewall to run wiring to the engine compartment.She also wrote this-"Even in a previous Revdex.com complaint where this vendor actually DID admit fault, he requested the complaint be removed so that no other potential victims could see his rapacious history. Sadly, it seems that Mr. [redacted] would rather victimize his customers and fight them rather than learn the lesson, admit wrong, and stop taking advantage of opportunities to upsell unnecessarily. "With regard to the issue you are referencing, I did admit fault to charging the customer $21.70 then I was legally allowed by the State of Ohio. I DID NOT request that the Complaint by him be removed. The part you are not aware of is that this person also threatened to sue me for approx. $1500 plus any Attorney fees he might incur. The letter from his Attorney also said that I could could contact them and possible "settle" the issue to avoid the lawsuit. I did have to settle this issue and write a Substantial check to him over the $21.70. In the previous matter I was victimized. Part of the Settlement was that I required him to contact the the Revdex.com and insure that the case was "Complaint resolved through Revdex.com process". I have no problem with the complaint being on the Revdex.com website because I feel we acted in a honest manner with this Customer.As I stated in the beginning of this, I will refund Ms. [redacted] the $335.97 and send the check to the address we have listed in our computer system. I will not apologize for anything other than our error in not providing a tow back to our shop when the vehicle did not start. That issue has been discussed with the staff at both of my repair shops ad the procedure to follow in those situations has been clarified.This is the best that I am able to offer.
Customer’s Statement of the
Problem:
I took my 2002 Ford Ranger to
Clintonville Auto Repair for a coolant leak. I left the car there on Wednesday
night (3/4) and deposited my key in the night drop box. On their form, I
indicated that I required an oral estimate prior to any work being done....
They called me Thursday morning
with an estimate. They told me that my coolant reservoir/tank needed replaced.
Mark C. indicated that there was good news and bad news. There were no
aftermarket part options but the Ford dealer had the part in stock. The bad
news was the part would cost $150. The repair would cost a total of $300.
I told him that I would think
about it and call him back. I called back and Mark C. was at lunch. I talked to
another employee and told him that I would not get the work done and that I
would come pick up my car later that afternoon. He told me - "Alright,
we'll put it back together" or word to that effect. End of conversation.
I determined that the actual
cost of the part was $82 and the time involved in replacing it was perhaps 30 minutes.
I was not going to be gouged on price by them.
I am unsure of where the Mr. [redacted] found an Dealer supplied part
for $82.00. I did find a few on the Internet for between $81 and $94. These would, of course, take 3 to 5 days to
arrive and I would still need to mark the final price of the part up some to
make a profit. The “Dealer List” price
for the part in Columbus, Ohio is $103.45.
My cost on the part from the Ford Dealer is slightly less than their
List price. Because I need to make a
profit to stay in business we do mark parts up also. “[redacted] List” for the needed part was
$144.83 and we anticipated needing $8.50 in antifreeze/coolant. The time to replace the part, PLUS purging the
cooling system of any air, PLUS a test drive to confirm that there were no
other leaks and that the repair we made was made properly was estimated at 48
minutes.
Our Estimate was $252.24 for the repair plus
$56.70 for our Diagnostic time (30 minutes) to determine the source of the leak
for a total bill of $308.94. This is far
from gouging.
When I went into pick up the
truck, they presented me with a bill for $56.70; however, they never provided
me with an oral estimate for "putting my truck back together."
We did not charge you to “put your truck back together”. When you called to state you were not having
it repaired you were told that we would get the truck ready to drive and park
it out front. This process involved
removing a Cooling System pressure tester, making sure the coolant level was
the same as when it arrived, and replacing the cap on the tank.
The Ohio Administrative Code governs
auto repairs and service. Repairs and services are covered by O.A.C. 109:4-3-05
(all repairs and services) and by O.A.C. 109:4-3-13 (motor vehicle repairs and
services). In general, the rules give consumers the right to a verbal or
written estimate for repairs or services that will cost more than $25. The
rules also require suppliers to obtain the consumer’s authorization for repairs
or services that will cost more than 10 percent of the estimate. In any repair
or service transaction, the supplier must disclose: Charges for disassembly or
reassembly; Charges for work that only gets partially completed; Storage
charges; Service charges, travel charges, charges for diagnosis; and Work that
will be performed by a third party, if the supplier disclaims the warranty of
that work.
One of the additional rules is
that if a supplier permits “night-drops”, in which consumers can drop off their
vehicles for repair after business hours, the supplier must provide two forms
stating the consumer’s right to an estimate. The consumer should be instructed
to leave one form at the facility and to keep the other copy for him/herself.
The form must identify the supplier and disclose the consumer’s right to an
estimate.
CARS violated these rules in
three ways:
1 - They did not give me an
estimate concerning re-assembly of my vehicle during my phone conversations
with them.
We did need to give you an Estimate for “re-assembly” since we did
not charge you to “re-assemble anything.
The charge that was billed to you was our charge to Diagnose the problem
that the vehicle was brought in for.
2 - They never disclosed
charges for re-assembly or disassembly of my vehicle;
Again, we did not “disassemble” or “re-assemble” any part of your
vehicle, at least in the conventional definitions of those words. We had to unscrew the pressure cap to install
our tester to pressurize the system and then reinstall the cap after removing
the tester.
3 - They did not provide two
forms with their night drop paperwork as required by law. Under Ohio law, they
are prohibited from charging me more than $25 for the work on my vehicle.
This is correct and this is where the entire problem that Mr.
[redacted] experienced happened. We do not
provide an envelope that has a carbon tear away page. We always have excess envelopes in the bin so
a Customer that wants one can take one for reference. Once I have used up the envelopes I have I
will be investigating the additional cost to get the “appropriate” envelopes.
The $25 charge (excluding Sales Tax) that we are limited to
represents the amount 15 minutes of Diagnostic time. Other than plugging a tire there is not one
thing I can do to a vehicle that costs less than $25. This dollar figure was originally codified in
1977 and would have represented approximately 30 minutes at that time. As Labor costs have increased over the years
this “allowed” amount has not changed. Because
of this I would be required to call every single one of my Customers that ‘Key
dropped” their vehicle to get authorization to do anything. Those calls would begin at 6:30 am.
This issue, brought by Mr. [redacted], has actually prompted me to
get signatures from 23 different Auto Repair shops in the area and I have met
with my State Rep. Stephanie Kunze office to see what steps would be necessary
to get this dollar increased to represent real costs in 2015.
Desired
Settlement:
I request a refund of all charges beyond $25.
I will write a check for $31.70.
It will be mailed to the address I have listed on file upon receiving confirmation
from the Revdex.com that this issue is "Complaint resolved with Revdex.com assistance".
I request that they conform to Ohio law requiring them to disclose
re-assembly or disassembly charges to all future customers;
This is not something I can do because we do not charge to
re-assemble. We do provide Estimates to
Diagnose our Customers concerns. This
charge covers the time to correctly evaluate the issue and return the vehicle
to the Customer in the condition it was received if they are not going to repair.
they provide two copies of their night drop paperwork so that
future consumers can reference document and have it in their possession after
leaving their vehicle;
As stated above, every Customer currently has the opportunity to
take as many envelopes as they feel necessary and when I reorder replacements I
will be sure to get the carbon, tear away style. I fear that this additional cost may force me
to charge a “night drop” Customer more for their visit than a Customer that
drops off during normal hours but that is yet to be seen.
they obey Ohio law in the future by always giving the customer an
estimate when requested.
We do provide an Estimate when a Customer requests it. Every time
and in the manner they request, Oral or Written.Failure to agree to these terms will result in a complaint filed
with the Ohio Attorney General.
Condescending responses will also result in this complaint being
filed with the Ohio Attorney General.
As an endnote I find it unfortunate that Mr. [redacted] did not take
any steps to discuss this matter with us prior to filing this complaint. He had an opportunity when picking his
vehicle up to say something. He had the opportunity
to contact myself, or my Service Manager, by phone/email/in person to discuss
this issue before filing the complaint.
He did send us an email at 5:27pm the day his vehicle was picked
up, 3/5/2015, but filed this complaint at some time prior to 7:47am on
3/6/2015. We did not even have a chance
to respond to his concern before he bypassed that option and filed with the
Revdex.com.
The Customer called us to get a quote to replace a starter motor in her vehicle We gave her the price and scheduled an appointment to evaluate the starting issue she was having The day the car was at the shop we did not have ANY starting issues Every time we turned the key it started Because of this there is no way we would be able to find the issue We called the Customer and told her we had no issuesThe customer requested that we replace the starter motor knowing that it might not fix her issueOn the Final Invoice we typed under the Labor line, "Replace starter - Did not experience a no start condition - Replace starter per Customer request."As to the remote start issue All of the wiring for a remote start system is in the passenger compartment of the vehicle The work we did on replacing the starter motor took place in the engine compartmentThere is no way the we could have done anything to make the remote start system not work It is physically impossible.Since we told the Customer that there was no way to confirm that the starter was the problem, because we had NO starting issues I do not feel we are at fault in any way
Since this issue is basically turning into a he said/she scenario I will just refund Ms [redacted] the $that was charged to replace the Starter Motor on her vehicle I in no way feel that we were at fault or did anything deceptive.I do feel the need to respond to a few other things she mentioned since these issues are available for anyone to read on the Revdex.com website I feel it is important to have full and correct information available for any future readers.Ms [redacted] wrote the following - "With regard to the remote start, I have attached the guide for it, which includes installation instructionsOn page 25, in the section for Manual Transmission Features, it specifically mentions a “tach wire” being connectedAdditionally, on page 29, the installation guide instructs that a wire in the harness be connected to the starter wireHowever, using common sense, it would only be logical, simple, and basic that a remote STARTER is connected in some manner to the CAR STARTER."If your Remote Start was installed by someone that had access to specific wiring diagrams for your vehicle they would have hooked the wire for the Starter at the Underdash Fuse/Relay box: Connector 419, pin 4(I have attached the diagram for your vehicle) When you turn the key on your car you are actually sending power to the Starter Solenoid The Starter Solenoid creates a magnetic field that closes an internal relay of the Starter that allows full battery power to flow to the Starter Motor itselfThe Tach Wire should have also been hooked up at Main Wiring Harness: Connector This connector is located just to the right and slightly above the Underdash Fuse/Relay Box (I have provided both the diagram for this circuit and an image of where it is located)These locations are the best/most common/most logical places to make these connections for multiple reasons The Remote Starter unit is mounted under the dash within 18" of the Fuse/Relay box so no additional wiring will be needed other than what is provided, making the connections inside the vehicle eliminates any issues of corrosion that could develop since the connections will not be made with the same weatherproof materials that the Vehicle manufacturer uses when the vehicle is built, it is the most efficient/shortest install time, and it does not require any additional holes to be drilled in the vehicle firewall to run wiring to the engine compartment.She also wrote this-"Even in a previous Revdex.com complaint where this vendor actually DID admit fault, he requested the complaint be removed so that no other potential victims could see his rapacious historySadly, it seems that Mr [redacted] would rather victimize his customers and fight them rather than learn the lesson, admit wrong, and stop taking advantage of opportunities to upsell unnecessarily"With regard to the issue you are referencing, I did admit fault to charging the customer $then I was legally allowed by the State of Ohio I DID NOT request that the Complaint by him be removed The part you are not aware of is that this person also threatened to sue me for approx$plus any Attorney fees he might incur The letter from his Attorney also said that I could could contact them and possible "settle" the issue to avoid the lawsuit I did have to settle this issue and write a Substantial check to him over the $ In the previous matter I was victimizedPart of the Settlement was that I required him to contact the the Revdex.com and insure that the case was "Complaint resolved through Revdex.com process" I have no problem with the complaint being on the Revdex.com website because I feel we acted in a honest manner with this Customer.As I stated in the beginning of this, I will refund Ms [redacted] the $and send the check to the address we have listed in our computer system I will not apologize for anything other than our error in not providing a tow back to our shop when the vehicle did not start That issue has been discussed with the staff at both of my repair shops ad the procedure to follow in those situations has been clarified.This is the best that I am able to offer
Customer’s Statement of the Problem: I took my 2002 Ford Ranger to Clintonville Auto Repair for a coolant leak. I left the car there on Wednesday night (3/4) and deposited my key in the night drop box. On their form, I indicated that I required an oral estimate prior to any work being done.... They called me Thursday morning with an estimate. They told me that my coolant reservoir/tank needed replaced. Mark C. indicated that there was good news and bad news. There were no aftermarket part options but the Ford dealer had the part in stock. The bad news was the part would cost $150. The repair would cost a total of $300. I told him that I would think about it and call him back. I called back and Mark C. was at lunch. I talked to another employee and told him that I would not get the work done and that I would come pick up my car later that afternoon. He told me - "Alright, we'll put it back together" or word to that effect. End of conversation. I determined that the actual cost of the part was $82 and the time involved in replacing it was perhaps 30 minutes. I was not going to be gouged on price by them. I am unsure of where the Mr. [redacted] found an Dealer supplied part for $82.00. I did find a few on the Internet for between $81 and $94. These would, of course, take 3 to 5 days to arrive and I would still need to mark the final price of the part up some to make a profit. The “Dealer List” price for the part in Columbus, Ohio is $103.45. My cost on the part from the Ford Dealer is slightly less than their List price. Because I need to make a profit to stay in business we do mark parts up also. “ [redacted] List” for the needed part was $144.83 and we anticipated needing $8.50 in antifreeze/coolant. The time to replace the part, PLUS purging the cooling system of any air, PLUS a test drive to confirm that there were no other leaks and that the repair we made was made properly was estimated at 48 minutes. Our Estimate was $252.24 for the repair plus $56.70 for our Diagnostic time (30 minutes) to determine the source of the leak for a total bill of $308.94. This is far from gouging. When I went into pick up the truck, they presented me with a bill for $56.70; however, they never provided me with an oral estimate for "putting my truck back together." We did not charge you to “put your truck back together”. When you called to state you were not having it repaired you were told that we would get the truck ready to drive and park it out front. This process involved removing a Cooling System pressure tester, making sure the coolant level was the same as when it arrived, and replacing the cap on the tank. The Ohio Administrative Code governs auto repairs and service. Repairs and services are covered by O.A.C. 109:4-3-05 (all repairs and services) and by O.A.C. 109:4-3-13 (motor vehicle repairs and services). In general, the rules give consumers the right to a verbal or written estimate for repairs or services that will cost more than $25. The rules also require suppliers to obtain the consumer’s authorization for repairs or services that will cost more than 10 percent of the estimate. In any repair or service transaction, the supplier must disclose: Charges for disassembly or reassembly; Charges for work that only gets partially completed; Storage charges; Service charges, travel charges, charges for diagnosis; and Work that will be performed by a third party, if the supplier disclaims the warranty of that work. One of the additional rules is that if a supplier permits “night-drops”, in which consumers can drop off their vehicles for repair after business hours, the supplier must provide two forms stating the consumer’s right to an estimate. The consumer should be instructed to leave one form at the facility and to keep the other copy for him/herself. The form must identify the supplier and disclose the consumer’s right to an estimate. CARS violated these rules in three ways: 1 - They did not give me an estimate concerning re-assembly of my vehicle during my phone conversations with them. We did need to give you an Estimate for “re-assembly” since we did not charge you to “re-assemble anything. The charge that was billed to you was our charge to Diagnose the problem that the vehicle was brought in for. 2 - They never disclosed charges for re-assembly or disassembly of my vehicle; Again, we did not “disassemble” or “re-assemble” any part of your vehicle, at least in the conventional definitions of those words. We had to unscrew the pressure cap to install our tester to pressurize the system and then reinstall the cap after removing the tester. 3 - They did not provide two forms with their night drop paperwork as required by law. Under Ohio law, they are prohibited from charging me more than $25 for the work on my vehicle. This is correct and this is where the entire problem that Mr. [redacted] experienced happened. We do not provide an envelope that has a carbon tear away page. We always have excess envelopes in the bin so a Customer that wants one can take one for reference. Once I have used up the envelopes I have I will be investigating the additional cost to get the “appropriate” envelopes. The $25 charge (excluding Sales Tax) that we are limited to represents the amount 15 minutes of Diagnostic time. Other than plugging a tire there is not one thing I can do to a vehicle that costs less than $25. This dollar figure was originally codified in 1977 and would have represented approximately 30 minutes at that time. As Labor costs have increased over the years this “allowed” amount has not changed. Because of this I would be required to call every single one of my Customers that ‘Key dropped” their vehicle to get authorization to do anything. Those calls would begin at 6:30 am. This issue, brought by Mr. [redacted] , has actually prompted me to get signatures from 23 different Auto Repair shops in the area and I have met with my State Rep. Stephanie Kunze office to see what steps would be necessary to get this dollar increased to represent real costs in 2015. Desired Settlement: I request a refund of all charges beyond $25. I will write a check for $31.70. It will be mailed to the address I have listed on file upon receiving confirmation from the RevDex.com that this issue is "Complaint resolved with BBB assistance". I request that they conform to Ohio law requiring them to disclose re-assembly or disassembly charges to all future customers; This is not something I can do because we do not charge to re-assemble. We do provide Estimates to Diagnose our Customers concerns. This charge covers the time to correctly evaluate the issue and return the vehicle to the Customer in the condition it was received if they are not going to repair. they provide two copies of their night drop paperwork so that future consumers can reference document and have it in their possession after leaving their vehicle; As stated above, every Customer currently has the opportunity to take as many envelopes as they feel necessary and when I reorder replacements I will be sure to get the carbon, tear away style. I fear that this additional cost may force me to charge a “night drop” Customer more for their visit than a Customer that drops off during normal hours but that is yet to be seen. they obey Ohio law in the future by always giving the customer an estimate when requested. We do provide an Estimate when a Customer requests it. Every time and in the manner they request, Oral or Written.Failure to agree to these terms will result in a complaint filed with the Ohio Attorney General. Condescending responses will also result in this complaint being filed with the Ohio Attorney General. As an endnote I find it unfortunate that Mr. [redacted] did not take any steps to discuss this matter with us prior to filing this complaint. He had an opportunity when picking his vehicle up to say something. He had the opportunity to contact myself, or my Service Manager, by phone/email/in person to discuss this issue before filing the complaint. He did send us an email at 5:27pm the day his vehicle was picked up, 3/5/2015, but filed this complaint at some time prior to 7:47am on 3/6/2015. We did not even have a chance to respond to his concern before he bypassed that option and filed with the BBB.
Mr [redacted] ’s response to my complaint makes absolutely no logical sense, whatsoever First, I did call C.A.R.Sfor a quote to replace the starter on my vehicle – IF, after an evaluation, it was determined that a starter was neededAfter receiving the quote, I scheduled the appointment to EVALUATE the starter issue If I made “an appointment to evaluate the starting issue,” why and how would I demand that the starter be replaced, when said evaluation did not point toward a starter problem? [I changed “request” to “demand” since Mr [redacted] alludes that his staff will replace expensive car parts at customers’ whims regardless of their shop’s recommendations.] Mr [redacted] ’s staff should be far more expert than I am at diagnosing car problemsIf I was so hell-bent on replacing the starter, why did I submit to an evaluation appointment first, rather than just schedule an appointment to replace the starter at the onset of our interaction? Simply put, I would notOne does not walk into a dentist’s office and demand a crown without having an examination first (nor would any reputable dentist put in one blindly); the same holds true with an automobile evaluation However, since Mr [redacted] prefers to paint me as anxious to spend unnecessary money to replace my starter, I shall relive the history of this car issue in more detail: The issue began in January while I was teaching in IndianapolisMy car suddenly did not start after driving from class to the hotelAAA was called and, after trying to jump the car, it was towed to a local CARx for evaluationCARx determined it was a dead cell in my battery, and it was replaced Once back home in Columbus, the car failed to start againOn February 1, I took the car to [redacted] (who has done maintenance on my car for the past three years)The car started consistently while in their custody for three days, and there was no recommendation from their evaluation The starting issue happened several more times, and again, the car was taken to [redacted] on March Although it was frustrating that [redacted] could not find an issue, they did not recommend replacing the starter, nor did I duress their mechanics for a starter When I took my car to C.A.R.Sfor EVALUATION on March 27, manager [redacted] called to say that his mechanic checked all the wiring, and they could not find any other cause for my car failing to start; I was told that the problem was likely a “dead spot” in my starter, and that the intermittent problem would definitely continue until my starter was replacedTrusting their recommendation, I agreed to have the starter replacedConsidering the statement “per customer request” being added to the final invoice, OF COURSE I would request the starter be replaced IF IT WAS GOING TO FIX MY ISSUEFor Mr [redacted] to claim that my request had any other meaning is deliberately misleading, calculating, and completely dishonest Finally, on April 1, the car failed to start after the starter was replacedI phoned [redacted] and told to tow my car back to him at my own expenseThe rest of the story unfolded as in my original complaint I have attached copies of invoices from other evaluations that I had on my car without placing any unnecessary duress on those shops or begging them to take money for a starter that I did not need With regard to the remote start, I have attached the guide for it, which includes installation instructionsOn page 25, in the section for Manual Transmission Features, it specifically mentions a “tach wire” being connected Additionally, on page 29, the installation guide instructs that a wire in the harness be connected to the starter wireHowever, using common sense, it would only be logical, simple, and basic that a remote STARTER is connected in some manner to the CAR STARTER It is very disheartening that Mr [redacted] cannot simply admit that his staff made a mistake in diagnosis, unnecessarily (and maybe deliberately) charged me for the starter, and refund me the money for itMoreover, while I am not a mechanic, nor do I have extensive knowledge about cars, I am not stupid and know when I am being taken advantage ofMr [redacted] ’s response to my original complaint is insulting, and I now wish to add an apology to the list of remedies from this vendor The Revdex.com history and comments on Yelp! and other social media sites show a history of predatory practices with regard to “diagnosis” and repairEven in a previous Revdex.com complaint where this vendor actually DID admit fault, he requested the complaint be removed so that no other potential victims could see his rapacious historySadly, it seems that Mr [redacted] would rather victimize his customers and fight them rather than learn the lesson, admit wrong, and stop taking advantage of opportunities to upsell unnecessarily
I have negotiated a settlement with the business outside of the Revdex.com and find that settlement acceptable to me and which to resolve this Complaint. The company has requested that I request that this complaint be removed from your website
The Customer called us to get a quote to replace a starter motor in her vehicle. We gave her the price and scheduled an appointment to evaluate the starting issue she was having. The day the car was at the shop we did not have ANY starting issues. Every time we turned the key it...
started. Because of this there is no way we would be able to find the issue. We called the Customer and told her we had no issues. The customer requested that we replace the starter motor knowing that it might not fix her issue. On the Final Invoice we typed under the Labor line, "Replace starter - Did not experience a no start condition - Replace starter per Customer request."As to the remote start issue. All of the wiring for a remote start system is in the passenger compartment of the vehicle. The work we did on replacing the starter motor took place in the engine compartment. There is no way the we could have done anything to make the remote start system not work. It is physically impossible.Since we told the Customer that there was no way to confirm that the starter was the problem, because we had NO starting issues I do not feel we are at fault in any way.
Mr. [redacted]’s response to my complaint makes absolutely no logical sense, whatsoever.
First, I did call C.A.R.S. for a quote to replace the starter on my vehicle – IF, after an evaluation, it was determined that a starter was needed. After receiving the quote, I scheduled the appointment to EVALUATE the starter issue.
If I made “an appointment to evaluate the starting issue,” why and how would I demand that the starter be replaced, when said evaluation did not point toward a starter problem? [I changed “request” to “demand” since Mr. [redacted] alludes that his staff will replace expensive car parts at customers’ whims regardless of their shop’s recommendations.] Mr. [redacted]’s staff should be far more expert than I am at diagnosing car problems. If I was so hell-bent on replacing the starter, why did I submit to an evaluation appointment first, rather than just schedule an appointment to replace the starter at the onset of our interaction? Simply put, I would not. One does not walk into a dentist’s office and demand a crown without having an examination first (nor would any reputable dentist put in one blindly); the same holds true with an automobile evaluation.
However, since Mr. [redacted] prefers to paint me as anxious to spend unnecessary money to replace my starter, I shall relive the history of this car issue in more detail: The issue began in January 2015 while I was teaching in Indianapolis. My car suddenly did not start after driving from class to the hotel. AAA was called and, after trying to jump the car, it was towed to a local CARx for evaluation. CARx determined it was a dead cell in my battery, and it was replaced.
Once back home in Columbus, the car failed to start again. On February 1, I took the car to [redacted] (who has done maintenance on my car for the past three years). The car started consistently while in their custody for three days, and there was no recommendation from their evaluation.
The starting issue happened several more times, and again, the car was taken to [redacted] on March 22. Although it was frustrating that [redacted] could not find an issue, they did not recommend replacing the starter, nor did I duress their mechanics for a starter.
When I took my car to C.A.R.S. for EVALUATION on March 27, manager [redacted] called to say that his mechanic checked all the wiring, and they could not find any other cause for my car failing to start; I was told that the problem was likely a “dead spot” in my starter, and that the intermittent problem would definitely continue until my starter was replaced. Trusting their recommendation, I agreed to have the starter replaced. Considering the statement “per customer request” being added to the final invoice, OF COURSE I would request the starter be replaced IF IT WAS GOING TO FIX MY ISSUE. For Mr. [redacted] to claim that my request had any other meaning is deliberately misleading, calculating, and completely dishonest.
Finally, on April 1, the car failed to start after the starter was replaced. I phoned [redacted] and told to tow my car back to him at my own expense. The rest of the story unfolded as in my original complaint.
I have attached copies of invoices from other evaluations that I had on my car without placing any unnecessary duress on those shops or begging them to take money for a starter that I did not need.
With regard to the remote start, I have attached the guide for it, which includes installation instructions. On page 25, in the section for Manual Transmission Features, it specifically mentions a “tach wire” being connected.
Additionally, on page 29, the installation guide instructs that a wire in the harness be connected to the starter wire. However, using common sense, it would only be logical, simple, and basic that a remote STARTER is connected in some manner to the CAR STARTER.
It is very disheartening that Mr. [redacted] cannot simply admit that his staff made a mistake in diagnosis, unnecessarily (and maybe deliberately) charged me for the starter, and refund me the money for it. Moreover, while I am not a mechanic, nor do I have extensive knowledge about cars, I am not stupid and know when I am being taken advantage of. Mr. [redacted]’s response to my original complaint is insulting, and I now wish to add an apology to the list of remedies from this vendor.
The Revdex.com history and comments on Yelp! and other social media sites show a history of predatory practices with regard to “diagnosis” and repair. Even in a previous Revdex.com complaint where this vendor actually DID admit fault, he requested the complaint be removed so that no other potential victims could see his rapacious history. Sadly, it seems that Mr. [redacted] would rather victimize his customers and fight them rather than learn the lesson, admit wrong, and stop taking advantage of opportunities to upsell unnecessarily.
Since this issue is basically turning into a he said/she scenario I will just refund Ms. [redacted] the $335.97 that was charged to replace the Starter Motor on her vehicle. I in no way feel that we were at fault or did anything deceptive.I do feel the need to respond to a few other things she mentioned since these issues are available for anyone to read on the Revdex.com website. I feel it is important to have full and correct information available for any future readers.Ms. [redacted] wrote the following - "With regard to the remote start, I have attached the guide for it, which includes installation instructions. On page 25, in the section for Manual Transmission Features, it specifically mentions a “tach wire” being connected. Additionally, on page 29, the installation guide instructs that a wire in the harness be connected to the starter wire. However, using common sense, it would only be logical, simple, and basic that a remote STARTER is connected in some manner to the CAR STARTER."If your Remote Start was installed by someone that had access to specific wiring diagrams for your vehicle they would have hooked the wire for the Starter at the Underdash Fuse/Relay box: Connector 419, pin 4(I have attached the diagram for your vehicle). When you turn the key on your car you are actually sending power to the Starter Solenoid. The Starter Solenoid creates a magnetic field that closes an internal relay of the Starter that allows full battery power to flow to the Starter Motor itself. The Tach Wire should have also been hooked up at Main Wiring Harness: Connector 422. This connector is located just to the right and slightly above the Underdash Fuse/Relay Box. (I have provided both the diagram for this circuit and an image of where it is located)These locations are the best/most common/most logical places to make these connections for multiple reasons. The Remote Starter unit is mounted under the dash within 18" of the Fuse/Relay box so no additional wiring will be needed other than what is provided, making the connections inside the vehicle eliminates any issues of corrosion that could develop since the connections will not be made with the same weatherproof materials that the Vehicle manufacturer uses when the vehicle is built, it is the most efficient/shortest install time, and it does not require any additional holes to be drilled in the vehicle firewall to run wiring to the engine compartment.She also wrote this-"Even in a previous Revdex.com complaint where this vendor actually DID admit fault, he requested the complaint be removed so that no other potential victims could see his rapacious history. Sadly, it seems that Mr. [redacted] would rather victimize his customers and fight them rather than learn the lesson, admit wrong, and stop taking advantage of opportunities to upsell unnecessarily. "With regard to the issue you are referencing, I did admit fault to charging the customer $21.70 then I was legally allowed by the State of Ohio. I DID NOT request that the Complaint by him be removed. The part you are not aware of is that this person also threatened to sue me for approx. $1500 plus any Attorney fees he might incur. The letter from his Attorney also said that I could could contact them and possible "settle" the issue to avoid the lawsuit. I did have to settle this issue and write a Substantial check to him over the $21.70. In the previous matter I was victimized. Part of the Settlement was that I required him to contact the the Revdex.com and insure that the case was "Complaint resolved through Revdex.com process". I have no problem with the complaint being on the Revdex.com website because I feel we acted in a honest manner with this Customer.As I stated in the beginning of this, I will refund Ms. [redacted] the $335.97 and send the check to the address we have listed in our computer system. I will not apologize for anything other than our error in not providing a tow back to our shop when the vehicle did not start. That issue has been discussed with the staff at both of my repair shops ad the procedure to follow in those situations has been clarified.This is the best that I am able to offer.
Customer’s Statement of the
Problem:
I took my 2002 Ford Ranger to
Clintonville Auto Repair for a coolant leak. I left the car there on Wednesday
night (3/4) and deposited my key in the night drop box. On their form, I
indicated that I required an oral estimate prior to any work being done....
They called me Thursday morning
with an estimate. They told me that my coolant reservoir/tank needed replaced.
Mark C. indicated that there was good news and bad news. There were no
aftermarket part options but the Ford dealer had the part in stock. The bad
news was the part would cost $150. The repair would cost a total of $300.
I told him that I would think
about it and call him back. I called back and Mark C. was at lunch. I talked to
another employee and told him that I would not get the work done and that I
would come pick up my car later that afternoon. He told me - "Alright,
we'll put it back together" or word to that effect. End of conversation.
I determined that the actual
cost of the part was $82 and the time involved in replacing it was perhaps 30 minutes.
I was not going to be gouged on price by them.
I am unsure of where the Mr. [redacted] found an Dealer supplied part
for $82.00. I did find a few on the Internet for between $81 and $94. These would, of course, take 3 to 5 days to
arrive and I would still need to mark the final price of the part up some to
make a profit. The “Dealer List” price
for the part in Columbus, Ohio is $103.45.
My cost on the part from the Ford Dealer is slightly less than their
List price. Because I need to make a
profit to stay in business we do mark parts up also. “[redacted] List” for the needed part was
$144.83 and we anticipated needing $8.50 in antifreeze/coolant. The time to replace the part, PLUS purging the
cooling system of any air, PLUS a test drive to confirm that there were no
other leaks and that the repair we made was made properly was estimated at 48
minutes.
Our Estimate was $252.24 for the repair plus
$56.70 for our Diagnostic time (30 minutes) to determine the source of the leak
for a total bill of $308.94. This is far
from gouging.
When I went into pick up the
truck, they presented me with a bill for $56.70; however, they never provided
me with an oral estimate for "putting my truck back together."
We did not charge you to “put your truck back together”. When you called to state you were not having
it repaired you were told that we would get the truck ready to drive and park
it out front. This process involved
removing a Cooling System pressure tester, making sure the coolant level was
the same as when it arrived, and replacing the cap on the tank.
The Ohio Administrative Code governs
auto repairs and service. Repairs and services are covered by O.A.C. 109:4-3-05
(all repairs and services) and by O.A.C. 109:4-3-13 (motor vehicle repairs and
services). In general, the rules give consumers the right to a verbal or
written estimate for repairs or services that will cost more than $25. The
rules also require suppliers to obtain the consumer’s authorization for repairs
or services that will cost more than 10 percent of the estimate. In any repair
or service transaction, the supplier must disclose: Charges for disassembly or
reassembly; Charges for work that only gets partially completed; Storage
charges; Service charges, travel charges, charges for diagnosis; and Work that
will be performed by a third party, if the supplier disclaims the warranty of
that work.
One of the additional rules is
that if a supplier permits “night-drops”, in which consumers can drop off their
vehicles for repair after business hours, the supplier must provide two forms
stating the consumer’s right to an estimate. The consumer should be instructed
to leave one form at the facility and to keep the other copy for him/herself.
The form must identify the supplier and disclose the consumer’s right to an
estimate.
CARS violated these rules in
three ways:
1 - They did not give me an
estimate concerning re-assembly of my vehicle during my phone conversations
with them.
We did need to give you an Estimate for “re-assembly” since we did
not charge you to “re-assemble anything.
The charge that was billed to you was our charge to Diagnose the problem
that the vehicle was brought in for.
2 - They never disclosed
charges for re-assembly or disassembly of my vehicle;
Again, we did not “disassemble” or “re-assemble” any part of your
vehicle, at least in the conventional definitions of those words. We had to unscrew the pressure cap to install
our tester to pressurize the system and then reinstall the cap after removing
the tester.
3 - They did not provide two
forms with their night drop paperwork as required by law. Under Ohio law, they
are prohibited from charging me more than $25 for the work on my vehicle.
This is correct and this is where the entire problem that Mr.
[redacted] experienced happened. We do not
provide an envelope that has a carbon tear away page. We always have excess envelopes in the bin so
a Customer that wants one can take one for reference. Once I have used up the envelopes I have I
will be investigating the additional cost to get the “appropriate” envelopes.
The $25 charge (excluding Sales Tax) that we are limited to
represents the amount 15 minutes of Diagnostic time. Other than plugging a tire there is not one
thing I can do to a vehicle that costs less than $25. This dollar figure was originally codified in
1977 and would have represented approximately 30 minutes at that time. As Labor costs have increased over the years
this “allowed” amount has not changed. Because
of this I would be required to call every single one of my Customers that ‘Key
dropped” their vehicle to get authorization to do anything. Those calls would begin at 6:30 am.
This issue, brought by Mr. [redacted], has actually prompted me to
get signatures from 23 different Auto Repair shops in the area and I have met
with my State Rep. Stephanie Kunze office to see what steps would be necessary
to get this dollar increased to represent real costs in 2015.
Desired
Settlement:
I request a refund of all charges beyond $25.
I will write a check for $31.70.
It will be mailed to the address I have listed on file upon receiving confirmation
from the Revdex.com that this issue is "Complaint resolved with Revdex.com assistance".
I request that they conform to Ohio law requiring them to disclose
re-assembly or disassembly charges to all future customers;
This is not something I can do because we do not charge to
re-assemble. We do provide Estimates to
Diagnose our Customers concerns. This
charge covers the time to correctly evaluate the issue and return the vehicle
to the Customer in the condition it was received if they are not going to repair.
they provide two copies of their night drop paperwork so that
future consumers can reference document and have it in their possession after
leaving their vehicle;
As stated above, every Customer currently has the opportunity to
take as many envelopes as they feel necessary and when I reorder replacements I
will be sure to get the carbon, tear away style. I fear that this additional cost may force me
to charge a “night drop” Customer more for their visit than a Customer that
drops off during normal hours but that is yet to be seen.
they obey Ohio law in the future by always giving the customer an
estimate when requested.
We do provide an Estimate when a Customer requests it. Every time
and in the manner they request, Oral or Written.Failure to agree to these terms will result in a complaint filed
with the Ohio Attorney General.
Condescending responses will also result in this complaint being
filed with the Ohio Attorney General.
As an endnote I find it unfortunate that Mr. [redacted] did not take
any steps to discuss this matter with us prior to filing this complaint. He had an opportunity when picking his
vehicle up to say something. He had the opportunity
to contact myself, or my Service Manager, by phone/email/in person to discuss
this issue before filing the complaint.
He did send us an email at 5:27pm the day his vehicle was picked
up, 3/5/2015, but filed this complaint at some time prior to 7:47am on
3/6/2015. We did not even have a chance
to respond to his concern before he bypassed that option and filed with the
Revdex.com.