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Revdex.com: I have reviewed the response made by the business in reference to complaint ID [redacted] , and have determined that this does not resolve my complaint For your reference, details of the offer I reviewed appear below In the response from the business owner that the Revdex.com received, he states that he has never been able to find out which employee of his was involved and yet in the initial response he sent me several months back (copied below for your reference), he indeed admitted that his employee was involved To say at this point that he doesn't believe his employee was involved seems disingenuous at best His story has changed which often means that he is not being honest Why else would he tell me one thing initially and then later when approached by the Revdex.com change his story? Also as you can see below, I have in the past taken responsibility for what happened but believe that Mr [redacted] has shared responsibility as well based on his employee's actions which again he has in the past admitted involvement I trusted his employee until I heard the scratching sounds that told me his employee was not being honest in assessing what was going on with my car To say that I am just trying to "get something" is quite misleading indeed I am simply trying to get Mr [redacted] to admit his involvement and be willing to negotiate a fair settlement To date, he has not been willing to do either Regards, [redacted] Hello J*** My name is [redacted] and I am an operating partner in Red Rock saloonI owe you a couple of apologies and I hope to resolve your problemI apologize first in the amount of time it has taken for me to get back to you I received a copy of this letter about hours ago however I see you originally dated it December 3rd Second, I apologize that this scarred what you said to be a rather enjoyable time at Red Rock I appreciate the detailed account that you wrote us and I can understand why you would be perturbed by the situation I would like to remedy this situation in the best and most fair way possible Here are my thoughts, and I look forward to hearing back from you I believe that one of our employees had good intentions in helping you out of a tight spot I also, believe that he exercised bad judgment by not just going back to get the employee whose car it was if he knew whose car it was Furthermore, him saying that you had room when you say that you didn't is not goodThat would be incredibly frustrating to me Conversely, I believe that you have a responsibility to make the final judgement in how you drive your carOur employee did not drive your car, he offered to help and did a poor job at it however with his intent being what it was I wonder why you believe that this is our responsibility? I want to help make this right To do so I need an answer to the above question Also, I would like to know what you are suggesting as an agreeable solution I look forward to handling this as efficiently as possible Thank you for your business and have a great weekend! [redacted] Owner/Operator Red Rock Saloon N Water st-Milwaukee, WI (414) 431-REDROCKMILWAUKEE.COM Owner/Operator Red Rock Saloon Madison W Johnson st-Madison WI (608) 709-RedRockMadison.com Owner/Operator McGillycuddy's Bar and Grill N Water st-Milwaukee, WI 414-278- [redacted] *** [redacted] ** [redacted] Hi [redacted] I apologize for the delayed response to your email as I was out of town visiting family for an extended weekend and just returned home this evening and am catching up on email now Let me first thank you for your personal response and say that I appreciate your candor and directness From what I can tell, your concern and desire to clear things up is genuine It indeed is an unfortunate situation that we now find ourselves in and I too hope that we can find a quick and agreeable solution Let me also say that I agree with you that your employee did appear to have good intentions from the outset and yet did make some poor decisions as in hindsight I guess I could say that I did as well To answer your question directly about why I believe that your employee and by chain of command yourself do share some responsibility in what happened, it comes down to one thing in my opinion When your employee offered to help guide me out of the parking spot, I voiced concerns about the tightness of the spot and impediments on my left, right and behind He assured me that I would be able to get out fine if I followed his instructions and as we got closer and closer to the fence on the left and I asked him again if we weren't too close, he assured me that it was okay and then when I saw the fence actually move a bit, he assured me that only my tire was rubbing up against it Nothing more After several additional attempts, when I finally heard actually scratching noises, I finally called off the attempt entirely even though he told me that we were still okay Throughout the attempts, my wife was behind the car watching to make sure that I didn't get too close to the car behind us while your employee was in front watching the front bumper From my view behind the wheel, I was literally blind to what was going on with my front bumper and had to trust that what your employee was telling me was true Until of course I heard the scratching noise that told me in no uncertain terms that it wasn't just tire rubbing against the fence It was something more Was I driving the car? Yes Could I have refused to drive until either the car behind or beside me was moved? Of course But I took the word of your employee that all was well and made the attempt trusting that was the case A sort of analogy that just crossed my mind You walk up to a blind man standing on the side of a street and he asks you if it is safe to cross? You tell him that it is okay for him to cross so he takes two steps forward and gets hit by a car Are you at all responsible for what happened to him? After all, he chose to take the steps I would say that you are at least morally responsible to what happened Whether your employee could see clearly what was going on with my front bumper or not, I couldn't say for sure I can say that he had the best (and only) view of anyone involved and that he claimed that all was well but in fact, it was not The estimate from the body shop that I sent you shows clearly that it was not Hopefully that (longer than planned) description of my reasoning helps clear things up for you Please let me know if you have additional questions As far as what I think would be an agreeable solution, I did provide the estimate to give us both an idea of what damage was done because of this incident but will also say that I believe that I am a reasonable person and don't believe that the blame is 100% with your employee and yourself As you said, I drove the car Let me know what you think Thank you***

I have attached several documents to this email including: - The estimate to repair the damage from ABRA (local auto body shop)- A picture taken of the damage by ABRA- The original letters that I sent to Red Rock Saloon about my concerns including the original to the Madison location and the foll(which was sent a month or so later after no response on the first) which was sent to both the Madison and Milwaukee locationsAs far as a desired settlement, I had originally communicated to the owner that I was willing to consider alternative settlements but given their lack of response, at this point I would request that they cover the full amount of the repair which per the attached estimate is $ If they respond and want to have a discussion about alternative arrangements, I would be willing to have that discussion Thanks again and let me know if there is anything else you need or if you have any other questions Thank you[redacted]

I am an owner and managing partner of Red Rock Saloon in Madison and I would like to respond to the accusation that was emailed to us Pardon me for the delay, as I have just got this across my desk
I have had previous contact with Mr*** about his complaint In my emails with him and investigating his side of the story I found it hard to validate any of the claims As always, we go in with a customer is always right attitude when dealing with anybody that has had a less than desirable experience at one of our places With that in mind, and after listening to his story, it was hard for me to in good conscience, to offer him a money settlement for this instance
Here is why I came to that decision: I could not track down any employee of ours that helped anybody out of a tight spot, and since it is a park at your own risk lot we do not staff anybody to park or watch itThis makes me think that perhaps it wasn't an employee He was driving and had control of his car the whole time, along with his wife watching He claims that he heard something scrape but neither him, nor his wife, checked it out at the time It is very hard to believe that significant damage could be down to a car with the owner in it and them really not even check it out
Lastly, and perhaps more importantly, I put myself in his shoes assuming all his facts were true I feel that if I was in that predicament, I would feel responsible for what happened to my car He was not interested in taking any responsibility for what happened He was more interested in what he could get After discussing multiple times with my leadership group and my partners, we felt that it was not right for us to pay his damage
Now that we have this dialogue, I will do what it takes to make this right under the scope of what we morally think is right I look forward to your response Have a great weekend.
*** ***
Owner/Operator Red Rock Saloon
N Water st-Milwaukee, WI
*** ***
REDROCKMILWAUKEE.COM

I am an owner and managing partner of Red Rock Saloon in Madison and I would like to respond to the accusation that was emailed to us.  Pardon me for the delay, as I have just got this across my desk.       I have had previous contact with Mr. [redacted] about his complaint.  In my emails with him and investigating his side of the story I found it hard to validate any of the claims.  As always, we go in with a customer is always right attitude when dealing with anybody that has had a less than desirable experience at one of our places.  With that in mind, and after listening to his story, it was hard for me to in good conscience, to offer him a money settlement for this instance.       Here is why I came to that decision: I could not track down any employee of ours that helped anybody out of a tight spot, and since it is a park at your own risk lot we do not staff anybody to park or watch it. This makes me think that perhaps it wasn't an employee.  He was driving and had control of his car the whole time, along with his wife watching.  He claims that he heard something scrape but neither him, nor his wife, checked it out at the time.  It is very hard to believe that significant damage could be down to a car with the owner in it and them really not even check it out.       Lastly, and perhaps more importantly, I put myself in his shoes assuming all his facts were true.  I feel that if I was in that predicament, I would feel responsible for what happened to my car.  He was not interested in taking any responsibility for what happened.  He was more interested in what he could get.  After discussing multiple times with my leadership group and my partners, we felt that it was not right for us to pay his damage.       Now that we have this dialogue, I will do what it takes to make this right under the scope of what we morally think is right.  I look forward to your response.  Have a great weekend. [redacted]Owner/Operator Red Rock Saloon1227 N Water st-Milwaukee, WI [redacted]REDROCKMILWAUKEE.COM

I have attached several documents to this email including: - The estimate to repair the damage from ABRA (local auto body shop)- A picture taken of the damage by ABRA- The original letters that I sent to Red Rock Saloon about my concerns including the original to the Madison location and the...

follow-up (which was sent a month or so later after no response on the first) which was sent to both the Madison and Milwaukee locationsAs far as a desired settlement, I had originally communicated to the owner that I was willing to consider alternative settlements but given their lack of response, at this point I would request that they cover the full amount of the repair which per the attached estimate is $614.01.  If they respond and want to have a discussion about alternative arrangements, I would be willing to have that discussion.  Thanks again and let me know if there is anything else you need or if you have any other questions.  Thank you.[redacted]
[redacted]

Revdex.com:
I have reviewed the response made by the business in reference to complaint ID [redacted], and have determined that this does not resolve my complaint.  For your reference, details of the offer I reviewed appear below.
In the response from the business owner that the Revdex.com received, he states that he has never been able to find out which employee of his was involved and yet in the initial response he sent me several months back (copied below for your reference), he indeed admitted that his employee was involved.  To say at this point that he doesn't believe his employee was involved seems disingenuous at best.  His story has changed which often means that he is not being honest.  Why else would he tell me one thing initially and then later when approached by the Revdex.com change his story?    
Also as you can see below, I have in the past taken responsibility for what happened but believe that Mr [redacted] has shared responsibility as well based on his employee's actions which again he has in the past admitted involvement.  I trusted his employee until I heard the scratching sounds that told me his employee was not being honest in assessing what was going on with my car.  To say that I am just trying to "get something" is quite misleading indeed.  I am simply trying to get Mr [redacted] to admit his involvement and be willing to negotiate a fair settlement.  To date, he has not been willing to do either.  
Regards,
[redacted]
 
 
 
Hello J[redacted] 
    My name is [redacted] and I am an operating partner in Red Rock saloon. I owe you a couple of apologies and I hope to resolve your problem. I apologize first in the amount of time it has taken for me to get back to you.  I received a copy of this letter about 48 hours ago however I see you originally dated it December 3rd.  Second, I apologize that this scarred what you said to be a rather enjoyable time at Red Rock.  
     I appreciate the detailed account that you wrote us and I can understand why you would be perturbed by the situation.  I would like to remedy this situation in the best and most fair way possible.  Here are my thoughts, and I look forward to hearing back from you.
     I believe that one of our employees had good intentions in helping you out of a tight spot.  I also, believe that he exercised bad judgment by not just going back to get the employee whose car it was if he knew whose car it was.  Furthermore, him saying that you had room when you say that you didn't is not good. That would be incredibly frustrating to me.  
     
     Conversely, I believe that you have a responsibility to make the final judgement in how you drive your car. Our employee did not drive your car, he offered to help and did a poor job at it however with his intent being what it was I wonder why you believe that this is our responsibility?  
     I want to help make this right.  To do so I need an answer to the above question.  Also, I would like to know what you are suggesting as an agreeable solution.  I look forward to handling this as efficiently as possible.  Thank you for your business and have a great weekend!
[redacted]
Owner/Operator Red Rock Saloon
1227 N Water st-Milwaukee, WI 
(414) 431-0467
REDROCKMILWAUKEE.COM
Owner/Operator Red Rock Saloon Madison
322 W Johnson st-Madison WI
(608) 709-5200
RedRockMadison.com
Owner/Operator McGillycuddy's Bar and Grill
1135 N Water st-Milwaukee, WI
414-278-8888
[redacted]
** [redacted]
 
 
 
 
 
Hi [redacted] 
I apologize for the delayed response to your email as I was out of town visiting family for an extended weekend and just returned home this evening and am catching up on email now.  Let me first thank you for your personal response and say that I appreciate your candor and directness.  From what I can tell, your concern and desire to clear things up is genuine.  It indeed is an unfortunate situation that we now find ourselves in and I too hope that we can find a quick and agreeable solution.  
Let me also say that I agree with you that your employee did appear to have good intentions from the outset and yet did make some poor decisions as in hindsight I guess I could say that I did as well.  To answer your question directly about why I believe that your employee and by chain of command yourself do share some responsibility in what happened, it comes down to one thing in my opinion.  
When your employee offered to help guide me out of the parking spot, I voiced concerns about the tightness of the spot and impediments on my left, right and behind.  He assured me that I would be able to get out fine if I followed his instructions and as we got closer and closer to the fence on the left and I asked him again if we weren't too close, he assured me that it was okay and then when I saw the fence actually move a bit, he assured me that only my tire was rubbing up against it.  Nothing more.  
After several additional attempts, when I finally heard actually scratching noises, I finally called off the attempt entirely even though he told me that we were still okay.  Throughout the attempts, my wife was behind the car watching to make sure that I didn't get too close to the car behind us while your employee was in front watching the front bumper.  From my view behind the wheel, I was literally blind to what was going on with my front bumper and had to trust that what your employee was telling me was true.  Until of course I heard the scratching noise that told me in no uncertain terms that it wasn't just tire rubbing against the fence.  It was something more.  
Was I driving the car?  Yes.  Could I have refused to drive until either the car behind or beside me was moved?  Of course.  But I took the word of your employee that all was well and made the attempt trusting that was the case.  
A sort of analogy that just crossed my mind.  You walk up to a blind man standing on the side of a street and he asks you if it is safe to cross?  You tell him that it is okay for him to cross so he takes two steps forward and gets hit by a car.  Are you at all responsible for what happened to him?  After all, he chose to take the steps.  I would say that you are at least morally responsible to what happened.  
Whether your employee could see clearly what was going on with my front bumper or not, I couldn't say for sure.  I can say that he had the best (and only) view of anyone involved and that he claimed that all was well but in fact, it was not.  The estimate from the body shop that I sent you shows clearly that it was not.  
Hopefully that (longer than planned) description of my reasoning helps clear things up for you.  Please let me know if you have additional questions.  As far as what I think would be an agreeable solution, I did provide the estimate to give us both an idea of what damage was done because of this incident but will also say that I believe that I am a reasonable person and don't believe that the blame is 100% with your employee and yourself.  As you said, I drove the car.  Let me know what you think.  
Thank you.
[redacted]

Revdex.com:
I have reviewed the response made by the business in reference to complaint ID [redacted], and have determined that this does not resolve my complaint.  For your reference, details of the offer I reviewed appear below.
In the response from the business owner that the Revdex.com received, he states that he has never been able to find out which employee of his was involved and yet in the initial response he sent me several months back (copied below for your reference), he indeed admitted that his employee was involved.  To say at this point that he doesn't believe his employee was involved seems disingenuous at best.  His story has changed which often means that he is not being honest.  Why else would he tell me one thing initially and then later when approached by the Revdex.com change his story?    Also as you can see below, I have in the past taken responsibility for what happened but believe that Mr [redacted] has shared responsibility as well based on his employee's actions which again he has in the past admitted involvement.  I trusted his employee until I heard the scratching sounds that told me his employee was not being honest in assessing what was going on with my car.  To say that I am just trying to "get something" is quite misleading indeed.  I am simply trying to get Mr [redacted] to admit his involvement and be willing to negotiate a fair settlement.  To date, he has not been willing to do either.  
Regards,
[redacted]
 
  Hello J[redacted]     My name is [redacted] and I am an operating partner in Red Rock saloon. I owe you a couple of apologies and I hope to resolve your problem. I apologize first in the amount of time it has taken for me to get back to you.  I received a copy of this letter about 48 hours ago however I see you originally dated it December 3rd.  Second, I apologize that this scarred what you said to be a rather enjoyable time at Red Rock.       I appreciate the detailed account that you wrote us and I can understand why you would be perturbed by the situation.  I would like to remedy this situation in the best and most fair way possible.  Here are my thoughts, and I look forward to hearing back from you.     I believe that one of our employees had good intentions in helping you out of a tight spot.  I also, believe that he exercised bad judgment by not just going back to get the employee whose car it was if he knew whose car it was.  Furthermore, him saying that you had room when you say that you didn't is not good. That would be incredibly frustrating to me.            Conversely, I believe that you have a responsibility to make the final judgement in how you drive your car. Our employee did not drive your car, he offered to help and did a poor job at it however with his intent being what it was I wonder why you believe that this is our responsibility?       I want to help make this right.  To do so I need an answer to the above question.  Also, I would like to know what you are suggesting as an agreeable solution.  I look forward to handling this as efficiently as possible.  Thank you for your business and have a great weekend![redacted]Owner/Operator Red Rock Saloon1227 N Water st-Milwaukee, WI (414) 431-0467REDROCKMILWAUKEE.COMOwner/Operator Red Rock Saloon Madison322 W Johnson st-Madison WI(608) 709-5200RedRockMadison.comOwner/Operator McGillycuddy's Bar and Grill1135 N Water st-Milwaukee, WI414-278-8888[redacted]
** [redacted]     Hi [redacted] I apologize for the delayed response to your email as I was out of town visiting family for an extended weekend and just returned home this evening and am catching up on email now.  Let me first thank you for your personal response and say that I appreciate your candor and directness.  From what I can tell, your concern and desire to clear things up is genuine.  It indeed is an unfortunate situation that we now find ourselves in and I too hope that we can find a quick and agreeable solution.  Let me also say that I agree with you that your employee did appear to have good intentions from the outset and yet did make some poor decisions as in hindsight I guess I could say that I did as well.  To answer your question directly about why I believe that your employee and by chain of command yourself do share some responsibility in what happened, it comes down to one thing in my opinion.  When your employee offered to help guide me out of the parking spot, I voiced concerns about the tightness of the spot and impediments on my left, right and behind.  He assured me that I would be able to get out fine if I followed his instructions and as we got closer and closer to the fence on the left and I asked him again if we weren't too close, he assured me that it was okay and then when I saw the fence actually move a bit, he assured me that only my tire was rubbing up against it.  Nothing more.  After several additional attempts, when I finally heard actually scratching noises, I finally called off the attempt entirely even though he told me that we were still okay.  Throughout the attempts, my wife was behind the car watching to make sure that I didn't get too close to the car behind us while your employee was in front watching the front bumper.  From my view behind the wheel, I was literally blind to what was going on with my front bumper and had to trust that what your employee was telling me was true.  Until of course I heard the scratching noise that told me in no uncertain terms that it wasn't just tire rubbing against the fence.  It was something more.  Was I driving the car?  Yes.  Could I have refused to drive until either the car behind or beside me was moved?  Of course.  But I took the word of your employee that all was well and made the attempt trusting that was the case.  A sort of analogy that just crossed my mind.  You walk up to a blind man standing on the side of a street and he asks you if it is safe to cross?  You tell him that it is okay for him to cross so he takes two steps forward and gets hit by a car.  Are you at all responsible for what happened to him?  After all, he chose to take the steps.  I would say that you are at least morally responsible to what happened.  Whether your employee could see clearly what was going on with my front bumper or not, I couldn't say for sure.  I can say that he had the best (and only) view of anyone involved and that he claimed that all was well but in fact, it was not.  The estimate from the body shop that I sent you shows clearly that it was not.  Hopefully that (longer than planned) description of my reasoning helps clear things up for you.  Please let me know if you have additional questions.  As far as what I think would be an agreeable solution, I did provide the estimate to give us both an idea of what damage was done because of this incident but will also say that I believe that I am a reasonable person and don't believe that the blame is 100% with your employee and yourself.  As you said, I drove the car.  Let me know what you think.  Thank you.[redacted]

I have attached several documents to this email including: 
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- The estimate to repair the damage from ABRA (local auto body shop)
- A picture taken of the damage by ABRA
- The original letters that I sent to Red Rock Saloon about my concerns including the original to the Madison location and the follow-up (which was sent a month or so later after no response on the first) which was sent to both the Madison and Milwaukee locations
As far as a desired settlement, I had originally communicated to the owner that I was willing to consider alternative settlements but given their lack of response, at this point I would request that they cover the full amount of the repair which per the attached estimate is $614.01.  If they respond and want to have a discussion about alternative arrangements, I would be willing to have that discussion.  
Thanks again and let me know if there is anything else you need or if you have any other questions.  
Thank you.
[redacted]
[redacted]