Ray Heating & Air Conditioning

To whom it may concern at Revdex.com:I David L [redacted] , President of Ray Heating & AC, Inc., met with our customer [redacted] over three months ago to install gas lines to their new gas range, two fireplaces and a future BBQ I talked to [redacted] about the size of the job and told her that we would perform the work not for an estimate or even a rough bid, but strictly for Time and Materials She agreed that this was OK with her and at this point activated us to work on her project [redacted] did not give me a number to stop work at We completed the job professionally and in a timely manner, and then billed her We even gave her a discount as a housewarming present as she was moving in to a new place with her fiancé This discount cost our company dearly We aim to try and earn a 10% profit from our jobs and giving her this discount blew all of the profit which could have been 260$, and then sunk us in the hole by another 400$ plus dollars so that we actually lost money on her job I explained to [redacted] that we cannot pay anymore money to do this work as she was still asking for more money off of the job If we do what she is asking and give her another off of this project, then our company will have been punished with a loss of over $for installing a good, code approved, will performing gas pipe system that she has been enjoying for the last months while our bills for the labor and the materials which we have expended on her behalf have languished unpaid We initiated the lien in order to encourage payment as we have not heard a thing from this customer for the last three months while we have patiently waited for her to complete payment This job was never an estimate, but was agreed to at Time and materials, and we cannot turn it into an estimate that will cause us to lose over 1200$ at the customers whim Sincerely,Dave L [redacted] PresidentRay Heating & AC, Inc[redacted] @Comcast.net [redacted]

To whom it may concern at Revdex.com:We will stick with our original rebuttal which was not refuted at all by this latest complaint, but the facts therein were only strengthened Main points being, number one, that this job was NEVER an estimate but was a time and materials job which they agreed to be billed that way Just because the customer does not like the price at the end of the job does not give them license to suddenly decide to change the job to an estimate I have explained to this customer over and over that in the discounts that I have already given them, we are losing money on their job As in it is costing us more to do the work for them then we have received We cannot and will not pay even more out of our pockets on the whim that this customer has that this was EVER an estimate and not a T & M project Contrary to what this customer chooses to believe, we perform projects for customers who pay all the time that are T & M jobs, with no estimated cost In our trade any job under 3K dollars is called a "small job" and does not and can not be performed including time that may be wasted in the hour or so that it would take to perform an estimate I personally did not "ESTIMATE" this job and this homeowner knows that as the job was never an estimate, but time and materials The total project, after our discounts, was completed in man hoursOne man for two long days is equal to hours, so in actuality my rough guesstimate on this T & M job was really close This customer needs to stop complaining pay the balance owingSincerely,Dave L [redacted] Pres.Ray Heating & AC, Inc

Complaint: ***I am rejecting this response and will enumerate the issues with the response belowDave came to our house, looked at what we were asking him to do, and stated it would be $1200.00-$to complete the work requested. Regardless of what you call it (bid, estimate, etc.), the final bill exceeded the stated figure by $800.00. Whether or not he said it was a time and materials job is beside the point, given that he verbalized a dollar figure for the job At no point during the work did he tell us that it was going to exceed his verbally stated price range. It is reasonable to assume that he knows what his hourly rate is and that he has a fair estimation of the materials required to complete this straightforward job. Calling it a “time and materials” job does not negate the price range he stated. We agreed to have work performed within the stated price range and at no point in the process were we informed that the job would exceed that Dave originally stated his “small job” figure as anything below $2000.00. In his most recent response he references $as the benchmark “small job.” Regardless, the work on our house exceeded his stated $small-job baseline. Again, that presupposes the job should not exceed his written estimate baseline of $2000.00, which it did Dave states that we “suddenly” changed this job to an estimate and on a whim decided we didn’t like the invoiced total. It is accurate to state we didn’t like the final total on the invoice BECAUSE IT EXCEEDED THE UPPER END OF THE STATED PRICE RANGE BY $800.00! We contacted him via email right after receiving the invoice to inquire about the significant overage. His explanation was that it took a little more pipe than he expected. Again, when he said $1200.00-$for the job, we took him at his word, assuming he could fairly estimate what was involved in this job Dave states that he has customers who agree to time and materials jobs with no estimate on a regular basis. I, personally, don’t have the luxury of telling a contractor, mechanic, or anyone else, to complete work for me with no idea of what it will cost. Additionally, I have worked with multiple contractors who provide an estimate for a job and stick to their stated dollar figure, whether they call it a T&M job or not, and they let me know if they’re going to exceed their original estimate so I can make a decision about whether or not to proceedRegardless, Dave provided a dollar figure of $1200.00-$for the work; he exceeded the upper end of that by $800.00, which is significant, hence our complaint At this point Dave seems to be denying that he provided a verbal estimate of $1200.00-$and has boosted his “small-job” written estimate threshold from $to $3000.00.Sincerely,*** ***

Complaint: ***I am rejecting this response because:
Dave may have told me that it was a time and materials job, however he ALSO said it would be between $and $1500.00, also stating he doesn’t do bids/estimates for jobs under $2000.00, which means he anticipated the job to come in under that amount (which is consistent with his $1200.00-$statement). I have a difficult time, given the length of time Dave has been doing this kind of work, that he could have underestimated the job by such a significant amount. I’m skeptical of Dave’s conclusion that I, or any other homeowner, would agree to have work performed without even a rough idea of what it is going to cost; I am not in a financial position to give any contractor carte blanche to complete a job. It is true I did not give him a dollar figure to stop at; I didn’t know that was necessary, given that I was told it would be between $1200.-$and I assumed I could take his word for that. Every other contractor, mechanic, etcI’ve had perform work for me has told me when they were approaching and/or anticipating exceeding their estimate so I could make an informed decision about continuation of the work.
Dave also states that the job was completed in a timely fashion; I disagree. We were originally told it would take two days to complete the work. In fact, it took a week for the job to be finished, during which time we were without a range. We were told the delays were due to difficulties on another job and a pipe-cutting tool being at another job site, which meant multiple trips back and forth between his shop and our house in order to cut the pipe and more time to complete the job
As previously stated, we paid Dave the upper end of his verbal estimate plus tax, totaling $1700. We did not receive another bill or invoice after our initial payment until the paperwork with the lien initiation arrived.
It is unfortunate and I am disappointed that it has come to this disagreement and that MrL*** will not take responsibility for his, apparent, underestimate of a job. Prior to this he has completed work for me (which he quoted under $2000.00, incidentally) with little to no deviation from his estimate Sincerely,*** ***

To whom it may concern at Revdex.com:I David L[redacted], President of Ray Heating & AC, Inc., met with our customer [redacted] over three months ago to install gas lines to their new gas range, two fireplaces and a future BBQ.  I talked to [redacted] about the size of the job and told her that we would...

perform the work not for an estimate or even a rough bid, but strictly for Time and Materials.  She agreed that this was OK with her and at this point activated us to work on her project.  [redacted] did not give me a number to stop work at.  We completed the job professionally and in a timely manner, and then billed her.  We even gave her a discount as a housewarming present as she was moving in to a new place with her fiancé.  This discount cost our company dearly.  We aim to try and earn a 10% profit from our jobs and giving her this discount blew all of the profit which could have been 260$, and then sunk us in the hole by another 400$ plus dollars so that we actually lost money on her job.  I explained to [redacted] that we cannot pay anymore money to do this work as she was still asking for more money off of the job.  If we do what she is asking and give her another 695.47 off of this project, then our company will have been punished with a loss of over $1000.00 for installing a good, code approved, will performing gas pipe system that she has been enjoying for the last 4 months while our bills for the labor and the materials which we have expended on her behalf have languished unpaid.  We initiated the lien in order to encourage payment as we have not heard a thing from this customer for the last three months while we have patiently waited for her to complete payment.  This job was never an estimate, but was agreed to at Time and materials, and we cannot turn it into an estimate that will cause us to lose over 1200$ at the customers whim.  Sincerely,Dave L[redacted]PresidentRay Heating & AC, Inc.[redacted]@Comcast.net[redacted]

To whom it may concern at Revdex.com:We will stick with our original rebuttal which was not refuted at all by this latest complaint, but the facts therein were only strengthened.  Main points being, number one, that this job was NEVER an estimate but was a time and materials job which they agreed to be billed that way.  Just because the customer does not like the price at the end of the job does not give them license to suddenly decide to change the job to an estimate.  I have explained to this customer over and over that in the discounts that I have already given them, we are losing money on their job.  As in it is costing us more to do the work for them then we have received.  We cannot and will not pay even more out of our pockets on the whim that this customer has that this was EVER an estimate and not a T & M project.  Contrary to what this customer chooses to believe, we perform projects for customers who pay all the time that are T & M jobs, with no estimated cost.  In our trade any job under 3K dollars is called a "small job" and does not and can not be performed including time that may be wasted in the hour or so that it would take to perform an estimate.  I personally did not "ESTIMATE" this job and this homeowner knows that as the job was never an estimate, but time and materials.  The total project, after our discounts, was completed in 23 man hours. One man for two long days is equal to 20 hours, so in actuality my rough guesstimate on this T & M job was really close.  This customer needs to stop complaining pay the balance owing. Sincerely,Dave L[redacted]Pres.Ray Heating & AC, Inc.