Red 5 Studios Inc

Revdex.com:
I have reviewed the response made by the business in reference to complaint ID ***, and have determined that this proposed action would not resolve my complaint. For your reference, details of the offer I reviewed appear below
issues to wrap this complaint up:
Ai probably won't be playing this game any longer (and haven't since the time I made the request)under these circumstances, in-game credits for the amount I lost are meaningless, but i'm not about to request a refund for the 12-15$ VIP cost
Bi am satisfied that this company has realized these are not acceptable trade practices, and have begun to take responsibility
Cstill requesting more week of VIP regardless (see explanation below), since this company seems determined to do the minimum required of them to obtain a reasonable Revdex.com outcome
regarding the content of your message:
the changes you implemented did not facilitate gameplayin fact, they made it more difficult/time-consuming (regardless of intention)
'salvage' did not cover the costs of items lost in this manner, and it is a hindrance not a benefit to further gameplay
'gear kits' also did not provide the correct gear, and the value of this gear doesn't come close to covering lost gear
free customers also got a week VIP package - no distinction was made for those who actually PAID for an entire month or more, which they lost
the salvaging returns were 2-3% of the total net worth of previous gearsalvaging provides 1% of net worth, gear kits were 5% of net worthafter I sold/salvaged all previous gear and items, and if I were to salvage the gear kits, I would only have a 5-10% return on investmentin other words, 90-95% of the value of the gear was 'WIPED'
the 50% bonus WAS wiped, since immediately after I had earned it, it was taken away, and the portion of therein which I bought gear with was returned at a rate of 5-10%
so you admit that you do not differentiate between paying and free customersinteresting
as mentioned, yes there was a 'wipe of gear', since the only thing that could be done with said gear was 'salvage', which renders it 'wiped', with nothing but a paltry percentage on return
in summary/conclusion, your agreement is void in cases of bad fair trade practice, which this was
you essentially supplied subscription users a bonus, which you then took awayi've been informed that this is not in fact the first time this has happenedit happened previous about year ago as well
again, your EULA is voidyou cannot change a contract within days of its expiry with a customeryou certainly cannot take what they gain by paying the subscription cost from them so easily/soon without consequence
it is correct that I asked for weeks of VIP (which, as I understand, has now been applied to my account)however, I only did this because the prospect of obtaining the full month that I lost was looking rather dimi would not otherwise have accepted such a loss to my account
due to the amount of time I have personally had to put in to this complaint, I am still requesting the other weeks that I lost (1+2=already granted)
thank you for your time and consideration
Regards,
*** ***

Hi [redacted],
 
I apologize you found our assessment and response unsatisfactory. As Firefall is still in a developing state in the beta period, we understand that some changes to the game may be difficult for players to accept. Unfortunately, some changes will be necessary so that we can get the product to a state that we can call the game "released". 
 
While we can't avoid these changes, and are necessary to keep developing our game, we are interested in making sure that the transition is as painless as possible for our customers. We really do appreciate and care for your feedback, and will keep this top of mind in future updates to the game.
 
I have extended another two (2) weeks of VIP Membership to your account in the form of packaged consumables. These will not expire so you can use them at your leisure. My hope is that, once the game's development comes nearer to release and less prone to significant changes, you will rejoin us and have a great experience.
 
Thank you, again, for the feedback and for the opportunity to serve you as a customer.

Hello, [redacted] – 
First, let me apologize that you did not receive a response to your Revdex.com filed complaint earlier than today. We have only recently discovered our business has a record in the Revdex.com, and we found that there are quite a few erroneous details associated with our records – a matter we are presently working with the Revdex.com to correct. It is our strong desire to field any customer inquiry – regardless of where they originate – in a timely manner. 
Now, on to the topic of the matter you filed with the Revdex.com. In our records, I see that you had a correspondence with a customer support representative from Red 5 on the issue stated in your Revdex.com complaint on January 31sth, 2014. You received a response from one of our support representatives on that same day, and continued a back and forth discussion disputing our position on the matter until Feb 7th, when you indicated you would open a complaint with the Revdex.com.
For the sake of summary, I’ll outline what changed in our game that I believe lead to your dissatisfaction, and then we will go over each of your points.
When we made a game update to Firefall in late January, we reworked several of our core systems that facilitated gameplay – namely, the power curve of weapons and abilities. In order for us to preserve game balance, all existing weapons and abilities were made non-equippable to your character. This allowed us to have a level playing field for the new items and weapons power curve. We understood that this wasn’t an ideal situation for our players who had recently crafted a weapon or ability, so we implemented a few things to help ease every player into the new progression system: an ability to “salvage” gear, which meant that rather than render all items and abilities useless, you could “salvage” it for value; we also provided a gear kit for each battle frame which meant that every character would immediately have power appropriate gear to wear after the patch, and finally we gave every character who logged in after the patch a 7 Day VIP status (a $5.00 USD value). As our game is still in beta, and very much in development, adjusting the power curve of existing items was a necessary part of ensuring our game could continue to develop. We regret putting our player base through any hardships, and this is why we made the effort to ensure a smooth transition with ample consideration to everyone’s needs.
Now let’s take a look at your itemized list:
1) Yes, on December 23rd, 20013, you purchased a 30 Day VIP Membership. When an account has a VIP Membership, the following benefits last for the duration: 50% Crystite from missions and loot drops, 2 additional Manufacturing Slots, and 8 additional Marketplace Slots
2) On Jan 30th, 2014, we released a game patch for Firefall which had the aforementioned changes to gear progression. However, we did not remove any items from players’ inventories. We made those items unequippable, and provided the Salvaging mechanic in order to make use of them, along with the aforementioned courtesy 7 Day VIP Membership, as well as the aforementioned gear kits of post-migration gear to wear.
3) Your 50% VIP bonus was not wiped. It did last the full duration of time you had purchased it for. As mentioned, we also granted all characters a 7 Day VIP Membership as a courtesy.
4) This is correct. 
5) At Red 5 Studios, we operate a game that is free-to-play. Right now, offering different levels of support depending on the money a customer has spent towards our game is not something we do. If we ever did modify our support policies and procedures based on money spent with us, this is something we’d have to very carefully and deliberately communicate to our customers. We feel that offering the same level of support to everyone is the fairest thing for us and our customers at this time.
6) As mentioned, there was no wipe of gear. Gear functionality did change, and I have covered the steps we’ve taken to ensure we minimized the impact of that for our customers.
So, to summarize, I don’t feel we’ve been unreasonable with our approach to your complaint. We always place the customer at the forefront when making changes to our game. As the game is in beta, and still actively in development, changes will happen. We felt so strongly to make our players aware of this, we included it in our Beta Tester Agreement all users who play Firefall must accept before they are permitted to play: https://support.firefallthegame.com/entries/21692654-Firefall-Beta-Testing-Agree...⇄ /> Specifically: “4. Firefall changes, a lot! We patch constantly and the game you are playing now may be different the next time you play. We may make these changes while you are sleeping, taking a vacation, laid up in the hospital, or otherwise unaware that we are patching the Firefall client on your computer. To play in the beta, you need to be okay with this.”
We are interested in making you feel right about this, though. In your original support correspondence with one of our support representatives, you first asked for 7 Days VIP Membership  as compensation, then increased the demand to 30 Days VIP Membership compensation and indicated your intentions to take your matter to the Revdex.com, consumer protections, and the Federal Trade Commission. It is our regret whenever a customer walks away unsatisfied – customers are what allow us to keep developing Firefall.
Although I believe our support staff has been fair, consistent, and attentive to your inquiries, I still want to try and make this a positive experience for you. I have granted two (2) 7 Day VIP Membership tokens which you may use at your leisure – a 14 day Membership in total.
Thank you for allowing us the opportunity to assist you with the Revdex.com’s help.

i'd prefer not to provide my adress.
i've filed Revdex.com complaints on numerous occassions (5-10 times) within the past 2 years and have never been required to provide such information.
I would prefer to keep it confidential... I especially don't want the offending business...

to have access to this information.
could you please process this request without this information?
thanks.

Review: waiting on a response from company for 10 days.1. approx 40 days ago, I purchased a 1 month 'VIP' subscription from this company for a game called 'Firefall', which grants a 50% bonus on a type of 'currency' collected in the game.2. 10 days ago (1 month after my purchase), just as my subscription had expired, the company removed all items form player inventories, and granted them a pitiful 10% of their current value.3. essentially, the 50% bonus I was given for that 1 month, was then wiped from my balance sheet 30 days later...4. the company provided a '1 week' VIP bonus for all players in the game after enough users complained. they refuse to provide any actual compensation for paying customers.5. customers who paid actual money for these packages are being given no different treatment than customers who have never spent a single dollar on this game. therefore this cannot be considered proper compensation for our losses.6. I would understand if there was changes to 'some' items, or part of the gameplay, as their subscriber agreement states, but a complete wipe of all your profits, which can be directly tied to the subscription fee you paid is outrageous.Desired Settlement: A. replacement: 1 month VIP credit, to recoup the losses the company wiped 30 days after I obtained it.orB. refund: complete refund of 20$ USD.thank you.

Consumer

Response:

i'd prefer not to provide my adress.

i've filed Revdex.com complaints on numerous occassions (5-10 times) within the past 2 years and have never been required to provide such information.

I would prefer to keep it confidential... I especially don't want the offending business to have access to this information.

could you please process this request without this information?

thanks.

Business

Response:

Hello, [redacted] –

First, let me apologize that you did not receive a response to your Revdex.com filed complaint earlier than today. We have only recently discovered our business has a record in the Revdex.com, and we found that there are quite a few erroneous details associated with our records – a matter we are presently working with the Revdex.com to correct. It is our strong desire to field any customer inquiry – regardless of where they originate – in a timely manner.

Now, on to the topic of the matter you filed with the Revdex.com. In our records, I see that you had a correspondence with a customer support representative from Red 5 on the issue stated in your Revdex.com complaint on January 31sth, 2014. You received a response from one of our support representatives on that same day, and continued a back and forth discussion disputing our position on the matter until Feb 7th, when you indicated you would open a complaint with the Revdex.com.

For the sake of summary, I’ll outline what changed in our game that I believe lead to your dissatisfaction, and then we will go over each of your points.

When we made a game update to Firefall in late January, we reworked several of our core systems that facilitated gameplay – namely, the power curve of weapons and abilities. In order for us to preserve game balance, all existing weapons and abilities were made non-equippable to your character. This allowed us to have a level playing field for the new items and weapons power curve. We understood that this wasn’t an ideal situation for our players who had recently crafted a weapon or ability, so we implemented a few things to help ease every player into the new progression system: an ability to “salvage” gear, which meant that rather than render all items and abilities useless, you could “salvage” it for value; we also provided a gear kit for each battle frame which meant that every character would immediately have power appropriate gear to wear after the patch, and finally we gave every character who logged in after the patch a 7 Day VIP status (a $5.00 USD value). As our game is still in beta, and very much in development, adjusting the power curve of existing items was a necessary part of ensuring our game could continue to develop. We regret putting our player base through any hardships, and this is why we made the effort to ensure a smooth transition with ample consideration to everyone’s needs.

Now let’s take a look at your itemized list:

1) Yes, on December 23rd, 20013, you purchased a 30 Day VIP Membership. When an account has a VIP Membership, the following benefits last for the duration: 50% Crystite from missions and loot drops, 2 additional Manufacturing Slots, and 8 additional Marketplace Slots

2) On Jan 30th, 2014, we released a game patch for Firefall which had the aforementioned changes to gear progression. However, we did not remove any items from players’ inventories. We made those items unequippable, and provided the Salvaging mechanic in order to make use of them, along with the aforementioned courtesy 7 Day VIP Membership, as well as the aforementioned gear kits of post-migration gear to wear.

3) Your 50% VIP bonus was not wiped. It did last the full duration of time you had purchased it for. As mentioned, we also granted all characters a 7 Day VIP Membership as a courtesy.

4) This is correct.

5) At Red 5 Studios, we operate a game that is free-to-play. Right now, offering different levels of support depending on the money a customer has spent towards our game is not something we do. If we ever did modify our support policies and procedures based on money spent with us, this is something we’d have to very carefully and deliberately communicate to our customers. We feel that offering the same level of support to everyone is the fairest thing for us and our customers at this time.

6) As mentioned, there was no wipe of gear. Gear functionality did change, and I have covered the steps we’ve taken to ensure we minimized the impact of that for our customers.

So, to summarize, I don’t feel we’ve been unreasonable with our approach to your complaint. We always place the customer at the forefront when making changes to our game. As the game is in beta, and still actively in development, changes will happen. We felt so strongly to make our players aware of this, we included it in our Beta Tester Agreement all users who play Firefall must accept before they are permitted to play: https://support.firefallthegame.com/entries/21692654-Firefall-Beta-Testing-Agree...⇄ />
Specifically: “4. Firefall changes, a lot! We patch constantly and the game you are playing now may be different the next time you play. We may make these changes while you are sleeping, taking a vacation, laid up in the hospital, or otherwise unaware that we are patching the Firefall client on your computer. To play in the beta, you need to be okay with this.”

We are interested in making you feel right about this, though. In your original support correspondence with one of our support representatives, you first asked for 7 Days VIP Membership as compensation, then increased the demand to 30 Days VIP Membership compensation and indicated your intentions to take your matter to the Revdex.com, consumer protections, and the Federal Trade Commission. It is our regret whenever a customer walks away unsatisfied – customers are what allow us to keep developing Firefall.

Although I believe our support staff has been fair, consistent, and attentive to your inquiries, I still want to try and make this a positive experience for you. I have granted two (2) 7 Day VIP Membership tokens which you may use at your leisure – a 14 day Membership in total.

Thank you for allowing us the opportunity to assist you with the Revdex.com’s help.

Consumer

Response:

I have reviewed the response made by the business in reference to complaint ID [redacted], and have determined that this proposed action would not resolve my complaint. For your reference, details of the offer I reviewed appear below.

3 issues to wrap this complaint up:

A. I probably won't be playing this game any longer (and haven't since the time I made the request). under these circumstances, in-game credits for the amount I lost are meaningless, but i'm not about to request a refund for the 12-15$ VIP cost.

B. I am satisfied that this company has realized these are not acceptable trade practices, and have begun to take responsibility.

C. still requesting 1 more week of VIP regardless (see explanation below), since this company seems determined to do the minimum required of them to obtain a reasonable Revdex.com outcome.

regarding the content of your message:

the changes you implemented did not facilitate gameplay. in fact, they made it more difficult/time-consuming (regardless of intention).

'salvage' did not cover the costs of items lost in this manner, and it is a hindrance not a benefit to further gameplay.

'gear kits' also did not provide the correct gear, and the value of this gear doesn't come close to covering lost gear.

free customers also got a 1 week VIP package - no distinction was made for those who actually PAID for an entire month or more, which they lost.

2. the salvaging returns were 2-3% of the total net worth of previous gear. salvaging provides 1% of net worth, gear kits were 5% of net worth. after I sold/salvaged all previous gear and items, and if I were to salvage the gear kits, I would only have a 5-10% return on investment. in other words, 90-95% of the value of the gear was 'WIPED'.

3. the 50% bonus WAS wiped, since immediately after I had earned it, it was taken away, and the portion of therein which I bought gear with was returned at a rate of 5-10%.

5. so you admit that you do not differentiate between paying and free customers. interesting.

6. as mentioned, yes there was a 'wipe of gear', since the only thing that could be done with said gear was 'salvage', which renders it 'wiped', with nothing but a paltry percentage on return.

in summary/conclusion, your agreement is void in cases of bad fair trade practice, which this was.

you essentially supplied subscription users a bonus, which you then took away. i've been informed that this is not in fact the first time this has happened. it happened previous about 1 year ago as well.

again, your EULA is void. you cannot change a contract within 30 days of its expiry with a customer. you certainly cannot take what they gain by paying the subscription cost from them so easily/soon without consequence.

it is correct that I asked for 2 weeks of VIP (which, as I understand, has now been applied to my account). however, I only did this because the prospect of obtaining the full month that I lost was looking rather dim. I would not otherwise have accepted such a loss to my account.

due to the amount of time I have personally had to put in to this complaint, I am still requesting the other 2 weeks that I lost (1+2=3 already granted).

thank you for your time and consideration.

Regards,

Business

Response:

Hi [redacted],