Regenerative Corporation

I am glad that this business has resolved to refund my $purchase and trust, as they have indicated, that I will not be further billed for $They indicated that there was an option to click on accepting the subscriptionThis is falseThere was no such option do soI took a screenshot of the page that can prove what I am saying is, in fact, trueThe page indicates that as a "bonus" I have been enrolled in a trial subscription for $and that I can cancel within days, after which time my credit card would be billedAnd, there was no way to opt out of this or go back and cancel my orderTheir angrily aggressive response speaks for itselfI'd like to emphasize that I do not want any further communication from anyone at this companyThank you Revdex.com: I have reviewed the response made by the business in reference to complaint ID [redacted] , and find that this resolution is satisfactory to me Sincerely, [redacted]

Greetings,We utilize the same one-click upsell technology used by many other businesses The upsell page completes the sales process on its own The customer can simply close their browser window.The text clearly states at the top that we have received their order There is no reason for them to do anything further Because the overwhelming majority of our customers do NOT purchase the upsell, we know that this isn't in any way confusing and that most people understand that they simply need to close the browser at this point Thank you and have a good day

Hello ***,Thank you for contacting REGENERATIVE.COM, the online sustainable living school trusted by over 250,students in countriesWe're honestly thrilled to have an opportunity to serve you!The reason for this charge is that you ordered several products on our website:-Permaculture Basics Course ($9)-Sustainable Living Academy ($199)Congratulations on saving over $on your sustainable living education tuition with us (that's quite the deal you found!)Since we love to under-promise and over-deliver, I have extended your one-year program by an extra months ($in value) entirely free of charge, as a gift to thank you for being a loyal customer and learning world-changing sustainability skills with us! We honor and respect you for taking the necessary steps to help heal our planet! 1) I am enclosing a screenshot of the order form you submitted on our websiteAs you can see in the attached document, each offer was 100% transparently disclosed to you, and you checked a box acknowledging that you have read and agree to the offer, the refund policy, and the Terms and ConditionsAll access to our website - and each step you took on our website - is logged with your IP address, conclusively proving that there has been no mistake on our sideWe are committed to total transparency and complete operational excellence in the way we do businessWe do not utilize fine print, hidden charges, nor do we play games with our customersOur order process has also been reviewed by two separate legal firms and very strictly complies with all applicable laws.2) Our refund policy requires you to complete the course in full before we will issue a refundThe refund policy was prominently disclosed to you at every step of the order form and you explicitly checked a box agreeing to itWe stand behind our products as being the best on the market and would be happy to issue a refund upon completion of the program if you are for any reason still unsatisfied after completionThe sales page is very

Complaint: [redacted] I am rejecting this response because: This person’s immediate and appalling response to my complaint was to accuse me wrongfully of engaging in illegal activities such as extortion and blackmail through the process of filing my complaint with the Revdex.com, therefore implying that the Revdex.com is facilitating such illegal activities This behavior is an outrage The role of the Revdex.com is not to condone or promote extortion and blackmail The Revdex.coms in the United States and Canada represent unbiased sources of information on the trustworthiness of local businesses and charitiesThe bureaus collect information on more than million North American organizations --private, public, nonprofit, online and offline -- and publish the data in reliability reports on businesses and Revdex.com Wise Giving guides on charitiesI’m surprised that the Regenerative Leadership Institute is not aware of these functions, considering the Institute is a paying member of the Revdex.com It is my right and responsibility as a dissatisfied consumer to file such information with entities such as the Revdex.com I provided an honest, detailed account of my experience with this business when filing my complaint against this business We consumers should be able to engage in such activities without the business in question accusing us of attempting to defraud their corporation, and demanding that we cease! The fact that this responding person, who did not sign their name, immediately resorts to such accusatory and threatening language further illustrates the company’s utter disregard for demonstrating ethical business practices Their sentence “Our contract, to which you have agreed at the time of signup is extremely clear on our rights to alter our online platform in any way we deem necessary” IS IN DIRECT CONTRAST TO their sentence “The contract also clearly spells out that the platform is offered as-is, without any guarantees whatsoever” The platform as-is That means you do not erase my completed tests That means that you do not change the curriculum If a student pays tuition for a class to pursue a degree or certification, they should be able to finish that class without having all of their progress deleted and their workload increased without receiving a time extension to match the increase of the workload Currently active students should not be subjected to the changes the “Institute” wants to make to their platform Those changes should apply to new enrollees only In addition, they compare themselves to Facebook and LinkedIn, which obviously are social networking sites I certainly would never pay a social networking site for a Permaculture Design Certificate program This Regenerative Leadership Institute seems to be throwing everything at the wall to see what sticks The “thousands of dollars of extra learning content” provided at no extra charge was, first, a waste of time The extra lessons that were added consisted largely of:a) Interviews with students or speakers, each of which were followed by a quiz A quiz about an interview Someone’s opinions Not exactly worthwhile, scholarly, scientific material here How is this supposed to help me in my business? It won’t.b) Fast-talking, cheap animations that simply offered a very broad range of information, none of which would have be worthy of receiving payment for These animations contradicted each other, as well as other lectures previously completed in the course They just added confusion, since each animation was followed by a quiz, and some of the quizzes would ask the same question and expect a different answer One of the animation quizzes even asked which word in a specific Buddhist chant held what meaning In a course that has a time limit for completion, all of these additional lessons proved to be simple time-wasters, seemingly designed to, in combination with deletion of my first completed quizzes, sabotage just enough of my time to eliminate my chance of working with a designer to complete a project In other words, to stop me from getting what I paid for Additionally, they were free anyway When I signed up for the course, the videos were free You give your email address and get the course free, as well as a barrage of “discount” offers The Certification is what we pay forAfter careful consideration of the complaints filed with the Revdex.com and on other web pages directly regarding Vladislav Davidzon and the Regenerative Leadership Institute, I have determined that the Permaculture Design Certificate from the company would not be held in very high esteem, thus would not be worth the paper I would have liked to print it on In light of the Consumer Complaints on the Revdex.com website, along with the negative review on highdesertpermaculture.org, the complaints on pissedconsumer.com, and the very enlightening post and comments on reddit.com regarding this individual and his company, I feel that I would be embarrassed to acknowledge any association with that man or his company, and I no longer feel that my desired outcome is to receive the opportunity to complete the project and final test in order to receive the certificate Rather, my desired outcome is simply to receive the full refund of $that I paid the Regenerative Leadership Institute on Jan 5, This outcome is only fair, due to the Institute’s sabotage of my progress in the program, and the disdain with which Vladislav treats his students when they ask for a little help Sincerely, [redacted]

As per our previous communications, we are declining the customer request 1) The contract is very clear that we have every right to make any modifications to the course.2) Our course includes the internationally-standard hour curriculum but is actually much more than just that curriculum.The consumer agreed to a very clearly spelled out contract that covers the concerns raised This decision is final

Greetings ***,The reason for this charge is that you placed two separate orders on our website:1) Permaculture Basics Course ($9)2) Sustainable Living Academy ($199)The offer was shown to you as a separate page after you placed the order for the basics courseAll access to our website is logged, and those server logs clearly indicate you clicked the button explicitly agreeing to this purchaseFor your reference, I am enclosing a screenshot of the three-page order form you completed.The full offer terms were very explicitly and 100% transparently disclosed to you on an upsell page after you placed your initial order, and you clicked a button agreeing to those termsThe fee was once again disclosed in the welcome e-mail sent to you (ticket #T6P6B) at the very top of the message and yet once again towards the bottomWe really go out of our way to make sure our pricing and billing practices are 100% transparentOur order process has been reviewed by two separate legal firms and strictly complies with all applicable lawsWe are committed to total operational excellence and do not do fine print, hidden charges, nor do we play any kind of other games with our customersOur refund policy for this product disclosed to you at every step of the order form, requires you to complete the course in full before we will issue a refundWe fully stand behind our products and would be happy to issue a refund at that point, but we have that policy in place to protect our company against abuseThe sales page is very

Complaint: [redacted] I am rejecting this response because: I MISTAKENLY Ordered This Course! What about that can't this business understand??? Sincerely, [redacted]

Mr***,Your complaint contains numerous factually-claims against our corporation, and we must firmly demand that you cease and desist from making such claims going forward:a) You did not purchase the Permaculture Mastery Program b) You made no attempt to contact our corporation directly You acknowledge having received a receipt from us, yet you chose not to reply to us directly with questions, leading us to believe that you are attempting to intentionally libel our corporation.c) Our server logs very clearly indicate that you did purchase the Suburban Permaculture Course for $ You then proceeded to accept two other offers, the Sustainable Living Bundle for $and the Sustainable Gardening Super Bundle for $ Here are the screenshots of those screens, where you clicked the button to accept each additional offer: [redacted] Our server logs are very clear on this matter Given that you are making blatantly claims against our corporation and appear to be attempting to defraud us, we are refunding your payment and the charge should be returned to your account within ten business days We are also very permanently banning you from ever purchasing anything from our corporation ever again - whether in six months or in ten years, you may never purchase anything from us again Credit card fraud is a crime, Mr*** We do not look kindly upon customers who make claims against our brands and we never wish to do business with you ever again Have yourself a good day

Complaint: [redacted] I am rejecting this response because: I have just recently had a [redacted] and had no idea that by trying to get off their website I ordered this course I would not have ever ordered this because I know that I am in no position physically or emotionally or mentally to undertake something like this I am begging these people to refund my money My account was overdrawn due to this being charged and I can not complete the course as they are insisting due to my health issues Sincerely, [redacted]

Good day,In reading your complaint, it is clear that you have failed to read the marketing materials That is absolutely not our fault 1) The upsell offer very clearly states at the very "Thank you for your purchase of the Permaculture Basics Course! We got your order..."The message is both bold and underlined There is literally nothing else we can do to make that text more prominent to you Reading all of the marketing/sales materials before clicking to confirm your purchase is 100% your responsibility as the customer 2) The same upsell page clearly discloses the price and the terms of the trial: "100% RISK-FREE 30-DAY TRIAL: Each of these courses normally sells for $(a total value of $1782) but you can get a year of access to all these courses for just $one-time tuition (yes, that's an insane $discount!)If after days you've completed the courses and don't absolutely love them, just e-mail us for a full refund! It's a totally crazy offer, and we know you're going to madly love all the amazing sustainable living content "3) You acknowledge having clicked to accept the original offer and then the upsell offer in our order process.4) At every single step of the order process, our refund policy is very clearly stated: "We GUARANTEE that you will love this program Complete this course within days and if you aren't 100% in love, just e-mail us and we'll refund your money!" 5) You furthermore checked a box on the order form that states: "I have read and affirmatively consent to this offer, the Terms and Conditions, and the Privacy PolicySatisfaction guaranteed! I know that if I complete the course within days and don't absolutely madly love it, I can ask for my money back!"6) As per your communications to us, you are refusing to complete the course7) Given that we have very clearly disclosed the upsell offer, the refund guarantee conditions, and given the fact that you are refusing the meet the conditions required to receive the refund, we see absolutely no justification for a refund That said, we would be happy to offer a refund if you complete the program in full as per our refund guarantee We do not make exceptions otherwise.8) We also very firmly demand that you cease and desist from making claims against our corporate brands, and we will not hesitate to take legal action against you to enforce our rights under the law We fully and completely stand behind products we sell as being some of the best on the market - we're the largest provider of permaculture education on this planet, trusted by over a quarter million students in 195+ countries; and we do not look kindly upon customers who attempt to defraud our corporation through blackmail.Thank you for contacting us and we hope you have a good day

Complaint: [redacted] I am rejecting this response because: The Regenerative Leadership Institute employs predatory bait-and-switch tactics to make sure people pay them for the 'bait' and then don't receive what they pay for because of the 'switch' I believe that I was scammed by this company I did not get what I paid for I signed up for a 72-hour course It was then switched to at least a hour course I was not given extra time to complete the extra hours I was told that I could not take the next step of creating a design to earn my certificate, which is the step I actually paid for, until I finished the extra hours they tacked on that I DID NOT SIGN UP FOR This is very simple and easy to see - Vladislav Davidzon is running a scam I simply want my money back The business did nothing to earn the $that I paid them They are thieves and scammers Sincerely, [redacted]

Greetings,The course library purchased in this case entails roughly fifteen hours of video content, reading materials and corresponding quizzes after each videoWe issue refunds within two business days upon receipt of notice by customer that they have completed the video content and quizzes. Upon receipt of such notice, we verify completion through our server logs. The two business day timeline is standard response time to inquiries for any customer service; we often respond much quicker. Please note that once a refund is issued, it can take up to ten days to show up on a customer's credit card, with that timeline being entirely up to the customer's bank once the refund is issued by our corporation

Greetings,Your complaint contains numerous factually-claims:Upon placing orders for most products with us, you are offered OPTIONAL upsell offers This is the same as any other business, including McDonalds offering you fries and a drink, and then offering to supersize both 1) The
page with the offer DID NOT enroll you without your authorization, nor did it state that it did so Furthermore, the offer was for a $99/month product trial, which is free for the first three days Unless you simply don't understand English, you likely know that, since according to our records you did not click the order button on that page Your claim that you purchased a $product is - you only ordered the $course 2) We do not advertise phone customer service, and you did not pay us for this service It's a bit odd to expect a service for which you have not paid.3) Your claim that we did not respond to your inquiry is false You contacted us on 05/25/11:AM and on 05/25/11:PM our customer agent Rieni responded to your inquiry Your expectation of faster customer service is both unreasonable and not something you have paid us to provide We respond to all e-mail inquiries within business days, and usually same-day as was the case with your inquiry.Given your hostile attitude, we are cancelling/refunding the entirety of your order and permanently banning you from purchasing anything from our corporation ever again, whether now or in ten years You are welcome to sign up with any of our competitors, all of whom will gladly charge you 5-15x higher tuition rates We don't do business with people who attempt to libel and defraud our companies.Have a good day

Good day,
We have done further review of our server logs and we see that you attempted to submit two orders:
1) With e-mail address ***@gmail.com and under the name of *** *** which was declined by your bank
2) With the email address ***@gmail.com and under the name of *** * *** - this order was accepted and the welcome message was sent to this address.Both orders were placed from the IP Address *** from the same computer. Our server logs are very clear on the facts
Given the nature of your blatantly claims and given that we believe you are attempting to very blatantly defraud our corporation, we are refunding this order in full and very permanently banning you from making any further purchase from our corporation again - whether in six months or ten years. Credit card fraud is a crime. The refund will show up on your credit card within business days (it has been issued on our side already). We never want to do business with you again and have added you to our blacklist to prevent you from placing any further orders.Have yourself a good day

Complaint: ***
I am rejecting this response because: this is the blanket statement I have received since I requested my refundThis company is scamming people out of moneyI now have more that have also been scammedI want a refund
Sincerely,
*** ***

Good day,In reading your complaint, it is clear that you have failed to read the marketing materials. That is absolutely not our fault. Yet as a matter of good will, we are willing to waive the $225/hour fee if you agree to pay for the products which you have purchased from us and
immediately withdraw the blatantly fraudulent claim you have filed with your credit card company. The facts of this case are as follows:1) You specifically state that "there should have been a 2-step process to purchase". There is no such requirement in any law of which we are aware, and many other businesses use the the same one-click upsell structure which we utilize in our order process. Clicking the button to accept each offer amounts to an electronic signature authorizing that purchase, which you acknowledge having done. 2) The upsell offer very clearly states at the very top: "Thank you for your purchase of the Permaculture Basics Course! We got your order..."The message is both bold and underlined. There is literally nothing else we can do to make that text more prominent to you. Reading all of the marketing/sales materials before clicking to confirm your purchase is 100% your responsibility as the customer. 3) The same upsell page clearly discloses the price and the terms of the trial: "100% RISK-FREE 30-DAY TRIAL: Each of these courses normally sells for $(a total value of $1782) but you can get a year of access to all these courses for just $one-time tuition (yes, that's an insane $discount!)If after days you've completed the courses and don't absolutely love them, just e-mail us for a full refund! It's a totally crazy offer, and we know you're going to madly love all the amazing sustainable living content. "4) You acknowledge having clicked to accept the original offer and then the upsell offer in our order process. 5) At every single step of the order process, our refund policy is very clearly stated: "We GUARANTEE that you will love this program. Complete this course within days and if you aren't 100% in love, just e-mail us and we'll refund your money!" 6) You furthermore checked a box on the order form that states: "I have read and affirmatively consent to this offer, the Terms and Conditions, and the Privacy PolicySatisfaction guaranteed! I know that if I complete the course within days and don't absolutely madly love it, I can ask for my money back!"7) As per your communications to us, you are refusing to complete the course. 8) Given that we have very clearly disclosed the upsell offer, the refund guarantee conditions, and given the fact that you are refusing the meet the conditions required to receive the refund, we see absolutely no justification for a refund. That said, we would be happy to offer a refund if you complete the program in full as per our refund guarantee. We do not make exceptions otherwise.9) We also very firmly demand that you cease and desist from making claims against our corporate brands, and we will not hesitate to take legal action against you to enforce our rights under the law. We fully and completely stand behind products we sell as being some of the best on the market - we're the largest provider of permaculture education on this planet, trusted by over a quarter million students in 195+ countries; and we do not look kindly upon customers who attempt to defraud our corporation through blackmail.As we stated above, if you *immediately* withdraw the fradulent dispute you have filed with your credit card company, and respond to us here acknowledging that you have done that, we are happy to waive the chargeback processing fee ($225/hour) on this case and consider this matter closed.Thank you for contacting us and we hope you have a good day

Ms***,You are making blatantly claims against our corporation, and we demand that you cease and desist from making such claimsHere is a screenshot of the e-mail that was instantly sent to you by our
system:http://www.awesomescreenshot.com/image/***/***You have made no attempt to contact us directly to resolve this matter; and your claim that we sent you "spam" amounts to libel. Furthermore you are not entitled to a refund as per our refund policy.Our refund policy for this product requires you to complete the course in full before we will issue a refundWe fully stand behind our products and would be happy to issue a refund at that point, but we have that policy in place to protect our company against abuse.The sales page is very clear: "if you complete the course and for any reason aren't 100% satisfied we will give your money back". This language is not fine print, it's not hidden, it's stated very clearly several times on the sales page as being a condition of our refund policy. We are very intentional in very clearly disclosing this policy upfront so there are no questions Please also reference the contract linked from the bottom of our website, available for review @ https://www.regenerative.com/terms-and-conditions - here is the relevant language:"Section Refund, Exchange: All sales of materials and products as well as all costs for participating in any and all Services are final and not subject to refund or exchange except as provided for hereinIn the event that you complete one of our permaculture and/or regenerative programs and/or courses in full and are dissatisfied with our Service for any reason you may apply for a full and complete refund within thirty (30) days of the point of sale of the program and/or course provided that the Service was identified as refundable at the point of saleRefund requests may be submitted to us at [email protected] and shall not be deemed received until you receive a notice of the same from usRefunds shall be granted in our sole and exclusive discretion and shall only be available for Services that are advertised as refundable at the point of sale."Please also note that the contract entitles us to $225/hour x hour minimum for any chargebacks/disputes. Our corporation is generally represented by attorney Scott S*** out of Portland, Oregon, attorney Paul K*** out of Berkeley, California and attorney Jessica M*** out of MtCarmel, Illinois. It is the policy of this corporation to routinely litigate debts owed to us; as well as any claims against our brands.We fully and completely stand behind products we sell as being some of the best on the market - we're the largest provider of permaculture education on this planet, trusted by over a quarter million students in 195+ countries and accredited and rated A+ by the Revdex.comPlease let us know once you have completed the course; you have days starting with date of purchase to do so and the course can easily be completed in about two weeks. We're guessing that by the time you finish you'll know that you have gotten many times worth your investment back, but if not - please do let us know and we'll happily honor the guarantee.Have a good day

Complaint: ***
I am rejecting this response because:
Sincerely,
*** ***

Hello ***,Thank you for contacting REGENERATIVE.COM, the online sustainable living school trusted by over 250,students in countries. We are providing you once again with the same information we previously provided you in response to your e-mail to us.We're honestly thrilled to
have an opportunity to serve you! The reason for this charge is that you ordered several products on our website:-Permaculture Basics course @ $9 -Suburban Permaculture Course @ $29-Sustainable Living Academy @ $199Congratulations on saving over $on your sustainable living education tuition with us (that's quite the deal you found!)Since we love to under-promise and over-deliver, I have extended your one-year program by an extra months ($in value) entirely free of charge, as a gift to thank you for being a loyal customer and learning world-changing sustainability skills with us! We honor and respect you for taking the necessary steps to help heal our planet! 1) I am enclosing a screenshot of the order form you submitted on our websiteAs you cansee in the attached document, each offer was 100% transparently disclosed to you, and you checked a box acknowledging that you have read and agree to the offer, the refund policy, and the Terms and ConditionsAll access to our website - and each step you took on our website - is logged with your IP address, conclusively proving that there has been no mistake on our sideWe are committed to total transparency and complete operational excellence in the way we do businessWe do not utilize fine print, hidden charges, nor do we play games with our customersOur order process has also been reviewed by two separate legal firms and very strictly complies with all applicable laws.2) Our refund policy requires you to complete the course in full before we will issue a refundThe refund policy was prominently disclosed to you at every step of the order form and you explicitly checked a box agreeing to itWe stand behind our products as being the best on the market an d wouldbe happy to issue a refund upon completion of the program if you are for any reason still unsatisfied after completionThe sales page is very clear: "if you complete the course and for any reason aren't 100% satisfied we will give your money back"The completion requirement language is certainly not fine print and it's not hidden; rather it is very prominently and intentionally stated numerous times.3) Please understand that we are not required by law to offer refunds, and could simply instead have a strict "no refunds" policy; however out of simple kindness and respect for our customers, whom we trust and generally know to be decent human beings who do not want to steal from us, we offer a very generous policy that entitles you to a full refund if you complete the program within days and are still for any reason unsatisfiedWe also know that people who complete our programs overwhelmingly love the extraordinary quality of their learning experience withus.4) Please reference the contract to which you agreed by checking a checkbox on the second page of the order formThe contract is also linked from the bottom of our website (and available for review @ https://www.regenerative.com/terms-and-conditions): "Section Refund, Exchange: All sales of materials and products as well as all costs for participating in any and all Services are final and not subject to refund or exchange except as provided for hereinIn the event that you complete one of our permaculture and/or regenerative programs and/or courses in full and are dissatisfied with our Service for any reason you may apply for a full and complete refund within thirty (30) days of the point of sale of the program and/or course provided that the Service was identified as refundable at the point of saleRefund requests may be submitted to us at [email protected] and shall not be deemed received until you receive a notice of the same from usRefunds sh all begranted in our sole and exclusive discretion and shall only be available for Services that are advertised as refundable at the point of sale." 5) Please note that the contract entitles us to $225/hour (with a 2-hour minimum) for the time necessary to process any credit card chargebacks or disputes related to your order; this fee specifically applies in cases where a customer attempts to steal from us through credit card fraudIt is the policy of this corporation to litigate debts owed to us, as well as claims against our brandsWhile we offer extremely generous policies, we are also extremely aggressive in how we deal with customers who attempt to defraud our corporation, steal from us, or libel our brandsAll access to our website is extensively logged and we have records of every action taken.If you wish to receive a refund, you have days starting with the date of purchase to complete the program (which we know can be completed in about two we eks)We know that by the time you finish you'll have gotten many times worth your investment back, but if somehow that does not happen, please do let us know and we'll happily honor the guaranteeIf you have suggestions on what we could do to make the process any more transparent, we would love to hear your ideas.Again, as a thank you gift for being a loyal customer working to improve our planet, I have also extended your one-year program by an extra months ($in value) entirely free of charge, so you now have years of access privileges. We are committed to total operational excellence and transparency in all our operations, and hope that you have a FANTASTIC day!

Revdex.com:I have reviewed the response made by the business in reference to complaint ID ***, and find that this resolution is satisfactory to me only because they do not legally owe me a refund beyond $I will say that I have attached the offer and e-mails concerning the most recent refusal to provide the bonuses offered with my purchase they are refunding that purchase without fulfilling their promise. When I contacted them about not receiving the last bonuses I only asked for the bonuses to be provided and a refund of the $weekly charge that had started up without ever receiving access to that bonus. This corporation claims to be the starbucks of permaculture but their customer service is no where even close to any major corporationYou can see it in the attitude expressed in the response and any of the many negative reviews that can be found online from there previous name of common circle education or generally under the owners name of Vladislav DBuyer Beware! As for the business you may not go down in court but negative reviews are statistically way more damaging to your business than a million good reviewsYou could have easily saved your self this negative review but choose to disregard an invalidate any of your "customer happiness team" claimsAnd I quote "We want to leave you delighted, thrilled and in awe by our courses! We fully believe that the skills and knowledge you will gain from this program will change your lifeIf there is absolutely anything we can do to help, please do e-mail us and one of our Customer Happiness Team members will assist you." but this is how it turned out after e-mailing them
Many Thanks, *** ***