Good afternoon, we appreciate the opportunity to provide the true & relevant facts on this case as follows Mr [redacted] 's BMW is an older model with over 100,miles on itThe issues that its seeing, the service history expense that it has had it not unusual for a vehicle of this type over 100,mileWhen Mr [redacted] 's BMW was in our care to estimate the cause of an oil leak spot on his garage floor we took photos, see attached please, as we advised him that there was significant oil or fluids leaking on his vehicle So much so it was so dirty at that time it was not possible to determine where the oil leak, or leaks as they maybe, were coming fromIn discussions with Mr [redacted] , instead of guessing on what might be leaking, we suggested that he allowed us to pressure wash the engine & trans area first to get it cleanThen have him come back after putting some miles on it so that we could look to see where in fact an actual leak was coming from on the cleaned engine in order to provide him with an accurate diagnosisMr [redacted] agreed with our ethical suggestion & we cleaned the engine components, discussed him coming back in - 1,miles so that the now cleaned engine would easier to see where or what is leaking Instead Mr [redacted] took it to another shop, which then as expected would happen after it was cleaned & driven as we suggested, saw an oil leak that we also would have seen had we had the opportunity to complete the diagnosis process that we had discussed at our shopWe are happy that our efforts to clean the engine & have him drive it did produce the results that we discussed with himOur service manager called Mr [redacted] to discuss his concerns one on one, offered to have him bring his vehicle in, stay with his vehicle the entire time while we brought it into our shop so that we could show him first hand of our findings on the CV boot He explained we stand behind our BMW certified technicians findings, which were verified by our shop foreman as well the day his car was here That we would happy to show him the issue in personMr[redacted] unfortunately though was argumentative to the point where it was not possible to continue the conversation as the client refused to listen or accept our offer to stand behind our findings, to show him in person what we were quoting, what we had reported to him He stated his car was at an independent shop & he would not cooperate in a civil conversation effortMr [redacted] 's contentions that we mislead him on the upper CV boot have proven to be caused by an incorrect, incomplete inspection by his independent aftermarket shop he refers as reputable Out of concern our service manager called the manager of that independent shop to discuss this clients accusations & talked with him about our findings on the CV boot as it posed a safety issue for this client Asked him to personally go out to the car with his technician & look exactly where we had, where he would find the torn CV boot, void of all grease in fact as we had advised this client of 100% correctlyThat manager did so & called us back to apologize that his technician, the shop Mr [redacted] trusted instead of a certified BMW mechanic, had in fact completely missed in his inspection The aftermarket shop not only failed to find the torn & damaged component that we correctly identified as safety issue but also gave the customer information creating the majority of his discontent as they told him they looked it, they incorrectly told him it was not torn Their shop was fraudulent in their business practices at worst case causing this customer to be so upset, not competent to examine the CV boot issue at best This aftermarket shop manager, after being told by our reputable business where to find the failure 100% verified that our findings were spot onIn fact the boot had leaked out all the axle grease as we stated & needed the axle replaced once they were in there working on it with the boot off to see all of the damage it had sustainedThis was a safety issue had it come apart while driving that our shop quoted & their shop denied existed initially until informed by our shop where to look, how to find itThe aftermarket shop has apologized to us for their part in this situation as their error or unskilled tech provided information to this client which was categorically false Their statements could have caused a serious concern had we not called them out of concern for this customers safety to help them correctly identify the safety issue to keep this customer from a serious issue had he believed them on their initial incorrect statementsOur store has credited back the diagnostic fee on the recent visit per Mr [redacted] 's request as a goodwill gesture to him even though our diagnosis on all was 100% correct which we will stand by every day with our factory trained certified technicians providing honest, ethical & true diagnosisWe appreciate the opportunity to provide the true facts in this case, thank you for your consideration & wish Mr [redacted] all the best with his choice of automotive repair shops~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Sincerely, Ursula CSI Leader Motorwerks BMW
Initial Business Response / [redacted] (1000, 8, 2016/03/04) */ This response is in reference to a claim you sent us from Mr [redacted] , hereinafter referred to as "client", case # [redacted] Thank you for the opportunity to respond with the proper details for your offices review As the client notes, he declined our suggestions & took his BMW 135i, which was in poor drivability condition, to have repairs performed at an independent, i.enon-certified BMW repair shopAs client notes specifically he then took his vehicle from them even though they noted it still had issues & a short time later suffered what we have determined to be a major engine failureHis issues respectfully need to be addressed with his referenced "Mechanic B" We do not have any firsthand knowledge of what was or was not said to the client at the independent shop he took his car toWhat we do know is that we have advised him of our initial findings when it's been here, have found sludge in the engine months ago on 7/6/at 99,miles which can contribute to numerous failures & furthermore do not have any knowledge nor control over how this client was driving his BMW with its poor mechanical condition The work our certified BMW technicians quoted as a starting point of repairs on his 12/29/appointment wherein his BMW had 114,miles, per BMW guidelines for his symptoms, was declinedThe client chose to drive away & keep driving it even though he indicates two repair shops advised him of repairs he states he declined, which his choice unfortunately likely resulted in an engine failure which is the clients full responsibility as he clearly notes he declined the recommended repairs from both shops Clients BMW has been at our facility a few times & the service history shows that oil change interval, maintenances were lapsedOur records July of we found sludge in his engine, which is a direct symptom in most cases of lack of proper maintenance & may cause numerous failures including but not limited to the failure present now This is the notation on these visits from our Service Manager: This vehicle has been seen at our dealership several timesWe performed services on it in July of and discovered the engine to be suffering from sludge in the crankcaseMade note of it on the repair orderReleased the vehicle to the customerVehicle returned to Motorwerks 12/for diagnosis, vehicle had a check engine light on, reduced powerwe performed diagnostics on the vehicle per BMW diagnostic guidelinesRan the test plan in compliance with BMW guidelines and summarized we needed to replace the knock sensor as a first stepWe advised Mr [redacted] of the needed repairs, provided an estimate which was declined by Mr [redacted] Mr [redacted] then took his vehicle (so he claimed) to an independent repair facility to have a knock sensor installed(Client claims): The independent repair facility made the repairs and instructed Mr [redacted] that the vehicle still had complications and needed further research/diagnostics to establish what is wrong with itMr [redacted] (told us he) declined to have that service performed from the independent repair facility as he wished to drive the vehicle over the weekend and return the vehicle to them on MondayAfter leaving the independent repair facility, Mr [redacted] notes he suffered a break down with his vehicleMr [redacted] had his vehicle towed to our shop where we determined his engine had suffered a catastrophic failure and would need to be replaced We have offered Mr [redacted] several cost effective options to repair his vehicle - all of which have been declined Mr [redacted] 's concerns need to be addressed with (as he references in his claim) "Mechanic B" as that is who he states worked on this engine directly before the catastrophic failure & as well allowed him to take it to drive after their repairsWhatever they found, performed or advised is not in our control nor do we have any control of quality of their work This engine failure situation is no way the fault of Motorwerks BMW as we were not authorized to do the repairs & his issue needs to be addressed with his "Mechanic B" We have graciously provided several cost effective repair options with discounts for this client which are still available to him for the next business days if he would like to accept Initial Consumer Rebuttal / [redacted] (3000, 11, 2016/03/07) */ (The consumer indicated he/she DID NOT accept the response from the business.) Their response is full of lies, mischaracterizations of the truth, and leaves out material facts Motorwerks failed to admit that they TOLD ME, after I specifically asked them, that replacing the Knock Sensor would remedy the warning lights and reduced powerThey did NOT tell me, and there is absolutely no documentation to suggest, that "replacing the knock sensor was the first step." If it was simply the "first step," why did they charge me $for diagnosis? How many "steps" was it going to take, Motorwerks? Do they tell ALL of their customers that the $diagnosis fee will only cover the "first step"? Obviously, they are admitting that their diagnosis was incorrect, yet claim NO liability...good business practices (see Extreme Sarcasm)I paid them for a diagnosis, and they simply gave me a "what if" or a "we THINK it's X"? I didn't pay for a "what if" or "we THINK it's X" or a "first step"I paid them for a proper diagnosis, which they obviously screwed up Further, they TOLD ME, when I specifically asked them, that it was OK to continue to drive my car prior to replacing the knock sensorIf they would have advised against it, I wouldn't have driven itI am not the "expert" and I PAID them for diagnosis! If it was advice they gave me (which it obviously was), then that's on themAgain, I am not the expert Also, they are seemingly trying to use the "we found engine sludge in his engine" against meWell, when one goes to the doctor and complains about X, Y or Z, the doctor checks his/her patient's history, right? Why didn't Motorwerks check my vehicle history if "replacing the knock sensor was the first step" or when they diagnose a customer's car and are not sure what the problem may be? It should be noted that, what I have learned since, is the purpose of a knock sensor is to detect and alert to an engine "knock," which means that there could be something internally wrong with the motorA knock sensor is like a stethoscope used by a doctor...it's secured to the engine and detects problems withinIn my case, it seems that the knock sensor did exactly what it was designed to do, i.edetected a knock, which was what caused my engine to seizeWhy did Motorwerks advise that I replace the knock sensor, when the knock sensor seemed to do what it was designed to do? To me, Motorwerks knew about the presence of engine sludge and damage to my motor, but tried to sell me on $2,worth of services (replace the knock sensor) on a damaged engineAnd then, after I spent that money with Motorwerks, they would then sell me on MORE services, knowing that replacing the knock sensor would not remedy the warning lights and loss of powerThat is fraudulent, misleading, and deceitful business practices Finally, they claimed that they offered me "several cost effective repair options with discounts." That is an outright lieThey offered to replace my engine for $29,804.81, but discounted it to $20,NO OTHER "COST EFFECTIVE REPAIR OPTIONS WITH DISCOUNTS" were extendedIn fact, common sense tells you that there is ONLY one "option" to replace a useless engine....which is to REPLACE the useless engineMotorwerks, you liarsShow me additional "options" that you extended....I'd love to see them Motorwerk's business practices are misleading, fraudulent and deceitful, or at the very least are absolutely incompetentThe public needs to know
I am rejecting this response because: The information provided to me was inaccurate, the transfer case was and still is working fine, the diagnosis went from transfer case to actuator motorI was not provided any documentation on what was communicated by the technicians for repairs even though I requested it multiple times.the reason I believe that Motowerks is solely focused on the costly repairs is that when I brought up my seat heater malfunction they did not address it telling me that BMW does not address those concernsOnly after my complaints did the bring it up and that too at a significant cost to myselfThere is no concern as to why the seat heater burnt a hole through the cushion as well as my pantsThey are not concerned about the customers safety rather it seems they are just a parts replacement shop
Response received via e-mail to Revdex.com: Good morning, thank you for the opportunity to provide the true facts in this situation Unfortunately what the client [redacted] is stating does not match our records It is unfortunate that she has taken this stance & has also put herself now in a situation where BMW may start the repossession process on this BMW as she has failed to complete her part of the transaction Her salesman & our finance rep both talked with her about the options between Wings & BMW Financial ServicesThey showed her that with the benefits she was better off to finance with BMW Financial Services, which she fully agreed to at the timeIn fact signing the documents agreeing to finance with BMW Financial Services with her full authorization signatures Her statement that Tom was going to "call the bank & set up the financing" after she left with the car are categorically false No vehicle leaves unless the loan process is first fully completedThis is widely known in the industry that a client is not given a vehicle while the dealership "calls" a financial institution after the fact Facts are the client must always complete the loan documents first before possession occurs What she is saying does not make sense, is not what was agreed up & is not legal for us (or any dealership to do) A bank cannot grant financing on anything based on a phone call from the rep as she claims She would not have been given the car All banks require all of their specific documents to be processed, to be signed for by the client & complete prior to clients receipt of any vehicle or product Please see the attached documents that prove this client has failed to follow through on her purchase obligations & as well shows that we promptly did exactly as was discussed which refutes her claims Client called on a Monday, the situation was discussed in the afternoon that she had since decided to change to Wings, yes claiming that is what she wanted originally but her signatures on the other documents show that this was not what she agreed to days earlier Those documents to change to her preferred bank, as was promised, were promptly Fed-Ex'd out to her within hours (after receiving cancelation approval from BMW which had to happen first before new contracts could be issued which was explained to her), contracts which she received the next morning around a.mas proved by the attached Ftracking.Clients obligation was to immediately complete those documents, returning them to us the very same day was the discussed expectation & a return prepaid Fenvelope was provided for her convenience She was instructed to do this right away as she already had the vehicle, this was an unusual situation that needed her full cooperation to remain in good standings with the bank of her choice & with BMW.As of today's date, as of this writing, the client has failed to return the documents to us in the prepaid Fso that the bank loan can be finalized & securedSee attached Therefore this client is in receipt of a vehicle she knowingly has not paid for or completed the purchase of, she has paperwork in her possession she was required to complete & immediately return to ensure the loan but as she has not followed through, for unknown reasons, is now in a situation wherein if not corrected immediately (if she does not follow through on returning the required financial documents to transfer the loan into her financing) may result in BMW repossessing the car as she is driving it without completing the financial obligations she was required to complete days ago If the repossession is started, that will be on her permanent record & may cause issues with her being able to lease or finance with BMW in the future.As stated it is very unfortunate that the client has filed a report (from dates on your complaint it appears that she filed her complaint AFTER she received the new documents from us), please see attached that shows we did exactly as was promised & as well shows that she has not only received what she needs to change the financing promptly but clearly shows she failed to complete her end of the transaction as of this writing While we do feel for the client that she changed her mind on where to finance after the fact, we do not understand why when we did everything promised to grant her wish to change it that she has not cooperated on her end to secure her loan & her purchase This situation is in her hands solely.We truly hope that she will get her required steps completed quickly so that this can be closed out & not become a bigger issue for her legally as she is currently driving a vehicle she has not legally purchased.Sincerely,UrsulaCSI LeaderMotorwerks BMW
We appreciate the opportunity to review this customers concerns & provide relevant details We have reached out to [redacted] directly to review & address with himWe have apologized to him & do accept responsibility for the gap in communication with his salesman that was unintentional which has been addressed with our staff This vehicle has 98xxx miles on it & was sold AS IS due to mileage & conditions noted on the safety inspection He signed the AS IS statement when purchasing this vehicle & declined any extended warranty options that may or may not have offered him coverage on the items he has noted if he had purchased the extended warranty option [redacted] chose not to test drive this vehicle before purchase which is unusual As all clients do he had the right to have it inspected by his own mechanic prior to purchase Prior to selling this vehicle our shop performed a standard safety inspection, an oil change service, replaced the rear brake pads & rotors also replaced a turn signal bulb As of todays date we have provided him with a copy of our inspection report findings, reviewed the findings of our inspection & offered our cost on any of the items he would like to have done at our shop along with a rental car for day during the repairs if needed We have also offered to take a look at the heat shield & if possible resecure it so that it is not rattling to which he has agreed to accept Thank you for the opportunity to address & provide the relevant details We do pride ourselves in excellent customer service & hope to regain this customers loyalty
Initial Business Response / [redacted] (1000, 7, 2015/11/23) */ Received business response via e-mail to Revdex.com -- is a copy of a letter / e-mail previously sent to Mr [redacted] : "Mr [redacted] - We had Ryan the used car sales manager reach out to you by phone earlier today and he left you his contact info so you could reach him backWe have your incoming call to Mr [redacted] recorded (at 2:pm) and during that time the following was discussed: - You asked for the availability of the Land Rover which Mr [redacted] affirmed is still for sale - You asked if we take trades and provided information about your Lincoln and approxtrade payoff - You asked if you could arrive around 4:- 5:to see the vehicle and Brad said he would have the vehicle ready for you - You also asked if we offer in house financing and Brad confirmed we do During the 4:call you never asked or inferred about the condition of the vehicle and Mr [redacted] never discuss anything regarding the condition as your post suggests The description that is on our website for the Land Rover (pasted below) also does not suggest "good" condition: HSE trimLeather, Nav System, Moonroof, Rear Air, MulChanger, 4x4, Hitch, Aluminum Wheels KEY FEATURES INCLUDE Leather Seats, Navigation, 4x4, Rear Air, MulChangerKeyless Entry, Privacy Glass, Child Safety Locks, Steering Wheel Controls, Rear Parking Aid EXPERTS RAVE Edmunds Editors' Most Wanted Midsize SUV Over $45,Edmunds.com's review says "Range Rover delivers a satisfying blend of on-road comfort and off-road capability in a stylish package." MORE ABOUT US Motorwerks BMW is proud to be the Midwest's largest Certified Pre-Owned BMW dealership, and the #Pre-Owned luxury retailer for the Penske Automotive GroupWe are one of dealers in the country to earn the coveted Center of Excellence for BMW, which recognizes the top dealers for sales, service, and customer satisfaction Please confirm the accuracy of the included equipment by calling us prior to purchase We unlike many other dealers provide an in-depth inspection and disclose everything we identify on the vehicleMany other dealers in town do not provide this level of transparencyDuring your visit Mr [redacted] provided you a copy of the vehicles inspection for you to reviewWe are sorry you did not like mechanical condition described in the inspection but we did not "bait and switch" as you claim In terms of pricing, we are a market based pricing store and sell vehicles based on a local comparative set of similar priced vehicles If you would like to discuss more please return Ryan's voice mailI would ask you to retract your untrue statementsWe take pride in our level of transparency we provide which sets us apart from others that leave it up to the buyer to discover the vehicles condition on their own Best, Motorwerks BMW Team"
Revdex.com NOTE: It appears that Motorwerks responded to this promptly upon receipt, but e-mail and accompanying documents did not initially reach Revdex.comBusiness re-sent response successfully, including attached PDF of accompanying docs.In response, Motorwerks provided copies of e-mails sent to customer on 2/and 2/14, explaining that the dealership has submitted paperwork to 'Fast Track' the customer's title at its own expense, and will not be buying his vehicle back, as the customer requests.E-mails read as follows: SENT 2/13/18......Hi [redacted] ***We understand your frustrationThis issue has been the sole result of the new license and registration system (MNLARS) that went live in the whole state of Minnesota two days after you bought your vehicleAll the transactions that we used to be able to do quickly were either slowed down or not available to us at all----which was not made known to us before the system went live.This new system caused great delays in getting your vehicle registered and also getting the title printed---so we were not able to follow the timelines of the MN statutes due to the state’s own admittance to these issues—so these timelines for registration and submitting documents are extremely subjective due to the specific issues each title is facing(the title for your other vehicle might not have had any issues and also we found out the state was picking and choosing which titles to process and not necessarily going in order of date--- We have some customers that purchased in the summer and are still waiting on titles while we have other customers that bought in December and received their title already in January----the state has already gotten in trouble for doing this.Your vehicle has already been registered to your name since 10/13/.so we cannot stop the transfer it has already happenedThe issue is not registration----the issue is getting the rest of your documents cleared with the state so they can get your title printed.We were told by our local DMV that we had to wait for a letter from the state of MN before we could send in the rest of your documents in to clear----and we still haven’t received that letter to this dayHowever---I had just found out in the last week that this process has changed and that we can now send in missing documents without waiting for the state to update their records first Since I have found this out---I have been working on clearing many other titles as well and I just hadn’t gotten to yours yetBut I will be putting your “title clearing” to the top of the pile.I also have just found out that under “extra-ordinary” circumstances that the state “might” allow a title to be “fast tracked” under the new “MNLARS” system-----for example---leaving the country.However I cannot fast track this title through our local DMV ..we are forced to send it directly to the state of MN.So since I have to order checks to pay for the clearing and fast tracking---the earliest I will be able to send your documents to the state of MN will be this Thursday 02/15/ and then hopefully the state will approve the “fast track” and clear your title within the next couple of weeks .but there is no guarantee that they will approve it .all we can do is send it and apply for the fast track and the rest is up to the state of MN ..so we have no actual control as to when they will process itFrom: [redacted] ,Cathy Sent: Wednesday, February 14, 12:PMTo: ? ? < [redacted] >Cc: [redacted] ,Matt Subject: COPY OF WHAT SENDING TO STATE OF MN Hi [redacted] ***I attached some of the documents that I will be sending to clear your titleI can't show you all of them due to previous owner privacy...but I have included the following:1) FEDEX LABEL that has tracking number of when the state will receive the paperwork--(the state should be receiving your paperwork on Thursday, FEB 15th---but it's hard to know when they will process it)2) copy of the application to "EXPEDITE" your title clearing process3) copy of the checks used to pay for the clearing and the expediting fee I sent the proper documents along with the items listed above to clear your title so the state can print it and send it to youTHANK YOU,CATHY [redacted] TITLE CLERKMOTORWERKS BMW/MINI###-###-####
Initial Business Response / [redacted] (1000, 5, 2015/10/08) */ Good afternoon Mr***, Thank you for forwarding this consumers concern to our attention The concerns have been addressed with this consumerPlease see the attached files as proof of such The consumer also received proof of his refund on 9/30/which is also attached for your review We ask though please that these documents attached are not included in public view due to privacy laws for the consumers protection but have provided them to show your offices the proper contact, handling & actions occurred Thank you in advance for your consideration Initial Consumer Rebuttal / [redacted] (3000, 7, 2015/10/16) */ (The consumer indicated he/she DID NOT accept the response from the business.) Motorwerks BMW re-listed the vehicle for sale for almost weeks before it refunded my deposit Motorwerks BMW never corrected the listing even with the knowledge that the car was in an accident
Thank you for the information on this unfortunate complaint. We have attached a copy of the AS IS agreement that this client signed. This client, as all clients do, had the opportunity to have this vehicle inspected by a mechanic of his own prior to purchase, prior to ownership
which he did not exercise his rights to do so. This client also had the opportunity to purchase extended warranties on this vehicle that may, or may not have, provided him assistance with the issues that it is having but he declined those options when he purchased this vehicle AS IS. While we do feel for this client that the vehicle has had issues, it was clearly disclosed that it was an AS IS sale & was so due to the fact that this is a vehicle, produced & in service in it is over years old with unknown history. The clients claims & contentions are concerning but untrue. We always are happy to share inspection reports, have them have their own mechanic look cars over before making a purchase decision. At the time of purchase this client declined those options, test drove the vehicle & made a decision to purchase it as his own risk. The AS IS disclaimer was posted on the vehicle itself & as well printed off, signed by the client, copies given to this client. The vehicle pricing was reduced below retail as well due to the AS IS nature of the sale. The client has engaged in language & behaviors that we will not condone nor subject our staff to which is why we have ceased communications with him after trying initially. We refute his claims & will not be supporting his requests on his AS IS purchase wherein he declined the extended warranty coverage that may have provided the coverages he is seeking after the fact. Please see the attached documentsThank you
I am rejecting this response because:By chance what is the color of the vehicle you have me test driving?How did a test drive a vehicle that doesn't have the options you stated when your own sales guy showed me how the touch screen works?As far as the options you gave me to trade it back:Why couldn't anyone give me an option when we first talked? Why was Brian the only one who could handle this?Why did I have to wait weeks to get an option? Which in fact hurt me to the point of not being even able to explore different options since the vehicle had been registeredI would have to pay the depreciation value of my new car?The only option presented to me was an SUV at +$350/month to my already $525/ month lease. The best part is the reason it was going to be so high was the registration had been issued.I am willing to explore options beyond my current monthly payment but I am not willing to pay the depreciation of the vehicle I tried to take care of the 4th day after I got it
Revdex.com NOTE: Received 'rebuttal' response from business via e-mail, including PDF attachments of a credit report disclosure and motor vehicle retail installment contractPDF's are attached; text of accompanying e-mail reads as follows: We dispute the clients claims & have proof that she is being completely dishonest attached as well as below for your review.Why she is making claims & trying to escalate this situation beyond necessary we are not sureAll we can do is provide the facts for your review which thankfully are well documented.This client absolutely knew & agreed 100% signing out with the BMW Financial Services. See the attached truth in lending disclosure that she clearly signed acknowledging acceptance that day of financing with BMW. Yes she was preapproved with Wings, we showed her she was also approved with BMW FS & she chose that option that day as the benefits were better.Her stories of how she was taking the car & how she believes we were going to release the car to her based on her belief that we were going to call her bank the next day are simply...her stories. We have never in the year history of our business, released a car without a fullfilled purchase financial committment. Her claims of scam & other statements are completely unfounded. Tom has been with us for years & in the business over years without a single complaint or issue. We have processed car deals with Wings Financial & other banks hundreds of times a yearWe are happy to finance with whomever the client decides to finance with. As in this case, we presented the options for Wings vs BMW, she decided at the time that the BMW finance options were better (as witnessed by several employees in the discussions including her salesperson ) & she chose BMW as proven by her signatures on the attached for your review. The forms are in place to document what decisions were made.Had she chose Wings that day, the Wings disclosure & forms would have been processed for her signatures that day but that is now what occurred as proven by attached.The client then changed her mind, likely after speaking with her bank on Monday. She called wanting it changed, as proven in our past communications, even though not normally done, we promptly took care of the request to get that handled for herThere was no reason to file a complaint, we already had told her that we would get it handled for her. We already had a Fon its way out to her at the time she was filing a complaint.We are still confused why she filed a complaint & has taken this stance but provide all the documents to prove what we have said is correct.In her statement to your offices, her item #is completely false. As proven in the original documents we sent to you & in the forward below, she received the documents on Wednesday morning the 13th. She was told she needed to complete them right away & return them that same dayWhich she promised to do. In her statement she falsely claims she received them on the 15th, returned them on the 15thThat is not true. Please see attachments previously sent to you showing that she did not complete the documents as promised, as was dueShe held the documents for more than hours when they were to be returned to Fthe same day to secure the loan. She was asked again Friday the 15th to get them signed & sent back right away to which she tried to tell Tom he needed to just call WingsHe explained again that is not how this works, we sent her the loan documents that she has to sign, she must return.Due to her not following through on the stated process is why there was a risk of a repossession order being sent out as she had failed to fullfill the purchase obligation in the stated time frame. As of hours that Friday morning of no response, no return Fnotification it was triggering a warningThis is not something we initiate, it is because she had not cooperated with the process She had taken a car on Saturday, that she demaned financing be canceled on Monday & redone. Highly unusual but we honored her request & needed her to cooperate to get the vehicle secured within a day or two, not going into nearly a week later with no security on the vehicle she had takenShe had refused to simply come into the store to resign for Wings, the Fprocess was explained to her but she held the documents, not completing them for more than hours as well days from when she had taken the vehicle.Our notes were not a threat, they were facts of the situation due to her stating she refused to come into the store to resign & due to her not returning the purchase documents, as were required, the same day she received them they were to be on their way back to us. Simple facts of the situation which unfortunately were out of our control.As noted she finally did return the documents to Fafter p.mon the 15th, which we received the next morning & processed with BMW as well as with Wings to secure the loan, to stop the repossession notice before it became active. ALl of which of course completed her purchase with Wings & with BMW.We refute her claims & the attached documents as well as below documents prove that she knowingly financed with BMW Financial Services. Proves that we promptly did exactly as we stated & proves that the time lines she notes to your offices are falsified.Unfortunately she chooses to believe that she was somehow scammed, we do regret that she feels that way & ask that you review these documents which prove nothing of the sort happened.Thank you for your time & consideration. Sincerely,Ursula CSI LeaderMotorwerks BMW
I am rejecting this response because: While I understand ***'s response it still does not change the facts of what I was told when I purchased the vehicleI find it highly offensive that Motorwerks thinks I am stupid enough to put in am email that I traded the vehicle if I truly believed it mattered and that I was not told otherwiseHow long I looked for a vehicle is totally irrelevant to the facts of what I was told when I purchased the vehicleI did not trade the vehicle and request a refund based on what the dealer told me when I traded my vehicleI requested the refund based on what I was told when I purchased the vehicle from MotorwerksThe dealer ( who previously worked for Motorwerks) where I purchased my new vehicle just reiterated what I had been previously been told by MotorwerksWhen I purchased the vehicle in we were told by a Motorwerks representative that if we traded the vehicle the maintenance contract was transferable to a new BMW and if we sold it or traded to another dealer we could cancel the contract and the refund would be proratedNever did they say the words before you traded the vehicleMy husband asked the question multiple times when we were purchasing the BMW before we signed the paperwork and the finance rep said yes it is cancelableHe did not say yes but before you trade the vehicleIf we were given incorrect information it is the dealers responsibility to correct the situationIf they truly are a reputable business they would stand by their word regarding what we were told
I am rejecting this response because: It is a distortion of the truth and several attempts at deflection. All of my future responses to this business will be a copy and paste of my below response: The primary purpose of my complaint was to expose the financing practices of Tom ***, Finance Manager of Motorwerks BMW.The secondary purpose of my complaint was to warn other consumers. I asked for no compensation, nor restitution. Sincerely, *** ***
Initial Business Response /* (1000, 5, 2016/02/15) */
Good afternoon & thank you for the opportunity to address this customers concern
We have communicated thoroughly with this customer on the situation
The customer is aware that we are working diligently on his behalf with BMWThis is a
manufacturing issue from BMW, not an issue that Motorwerks caused nor has any direct control over
The customer is aware that we have ordered in different tail lamps as new replacements but all have arrived with the same issueWe also then ordered in several tail lights from opposite side hoping for a match, then sets together with no successCustomer is aware that we have BMW area rep involved & that he also has contacted BMW on the issue
Our BMW rep authorized the rare option to replace his tail lamps with like new, guaranteed & matching tail lamps off of a certified BMW on our lot = perfect conditionOur store was willing to down that car = that car would have to be taken off availability until correct matching tail lamps were produced by BMWThe client though declined this offer even though it would have solved the situation immediately for him
Customer is aware that BMW is working with the company producing the tail lamps & searching for a new matching set
When the customer left, after sharing all of this with him at each point in the process, he seemed to completely understand the situation appreciating as well that we were seeing this through with him to attain matching tail lamps
Motorwerks has this well documented that we had, well before he filed with your offices, contacted BMW on his behalf towards resolve on this
As we explained to the client, we appreciate his patience & understandingWe feel for him that there is a slight difference in appearance & we also want them to a perfect matched set for him
We are still working towards this goal for him, which he is well aware of & will be in touch with him as soon as BMW is able to provide us with the proper matching set
Thank you for the opportunity to provide the facts of this situation & we welcome hearing from your offices if we can provide you with any documentation on this we are more than happy to
Initial Business Response /* (1000, 8, 2016/03/04) */
This response is in reference to a claim you sent us from Mr. [redacted], hereinafter referred to as "client", case # [redacted]. Thank you for the opportunity to respond with the proper details for your offices review.
As the client...
notes, he declined our suggestions & took his 2010 BMW 135i, which was in poor drivability condition, to have repairs performed at an independent, i.e. non-certified BMW repair shop. As client notes specifically he then took his vehicle from them even though they noted it still had issues & a short time later suffered what we have determined to be a major engine failure. His issues respectfully need to be addressed with his referenced "Mechanic B".
We do not have any firsthand knowledge of what was or was not said to the client at the independent shop he took his car to. What we do know is that we have advised him of our initial findings when it's been here, have found sludge in the engine 5 months ago on 7/6/2015 at 99,684 miles which can contribute to numerous failures & furthermore do not have any knowledge nor control over how this client was driving his BMW with its poor mechanical condition.
The work our certified BMW technicians quoted as a starting point of repairs on his 12/29/2015 appointment wherein his BMW had 114,102 miles, per BMW guidelines for his symptoms, was declined. The client chose to drive away & keep driving it even though he indicates two repair shops advised him of repairs he states he declined, which his choice unfortunately likely resulted in an engine failure which is the clients full responsibility as he clearly notes he declined the recommended repairs from both shops.
Clients BMW has been at our facility a few times & the service history shows that oil change interval, maintenances were lapsed. Our records July of 2015 we found sludge in his engine, which is a direct symptom in most cases of lack of proper maintenance & may cause numerous failures including but not limited to the failure present now.
This is the notation on these visits from our Service Manager:
This vehicle has been seen at our dealership several times. We performed services on it in July of 2015 and discovered the engine to be suffering from sludge in the crankcase. Made note of it on the repair order. Released the vehicle to the customer. Vehicle returned to Motorwerks 12/29 for diagnosis, vehicle had a check engine light on, reduced power... we performed diagnostics on the vehicle per BMW diagnostic guidelines. Ran the test plan in compliance with BMW guidelines and summarized we needed to replace the knock sensor as a first step. We advised Mr. [redacted] of the needed repairs, provided an estimate which was declined by Mr. [redacted]. Mr. [redacted] then took his vehicle (so he claimed) to an independent repair facility to have a knock sensor installed. (Client claims): The independent repair facility made the repairs and instructed Mr. [redacted] that the vehicle still had complications and needed further research/diagnostics to establish what is wrong with it. Mr. [redacted] (told us he) declined to have that service performed from the independent repair facility as he wished to drive the vehicle over the weekend and return the vehicle to them on Monday. After leaving the independent repair facility, Mr. [redacted] notes he suffered a break down with his vehicle. Mr. [redacted] had his vehicle towed to our shop where we determined his engine had suffered a catastrophic failure and would need to be replaced.
We have offered Mr. [redacted] several cost effective options to repair his vehicle - all of which have been declined.
Mr. [redacted]'s concerns need to be addressed with (as he references in his claim) "Mechanic B" as that is who he states worked on this engine directly before the catastrophic failure & as well allowed him to take it to drive after their repairs. Whatever they found, performed or advised is not in our control nor do we have any control of quality of their work.
This engine failure situation is no way the fault of Motorwerks BMW as we were not authorized to do the repairs & his issue needs to be addressed with his "Mechanic B".
We have graciously provided several cost effective repair options with discounts for this client which are still available to him for the next 7 business days if he would like to accept.
Initial Consumer Rebuttal /* (3000, 11, 2016/03/07) */
(The consumer indicated he/she DID NOT accept the response from the business.)
Their response is full of lies, mischaracterizations of the truth, and leaves out material facts.
Motorwerks failed to admit that they TOLD ME, after I specifically asked them, that replacing the Knock Sensor would remedy the warning lights and reduced power. They did NOT tell me, and there is absolutely no documentation to suggest, that "replacing the knock sensor was the first step." If it was simply the "first step," why did they charge me $118.00 for diagnosis? How many "steps" was it going to take, Motorwerks? Do they tell ALL of their customers that the $118.00 diagnosis fee will only cover the "first step"? Obviously, they are admitting that their diagnosis was incorrect, yet claim NO liability...good business practices (see Extreme Sarcasm). I paid them for a diagnosis, and they simply gave me a "what if" or a "we THINK it's X"? I didn't pay for a "what if" or "we THINK it's X" or a "first step". I paid them for a proper diagnosis, which they obviously screwed up.
Further, they TOLD ME, when I specifically asked them, that it was OK to continue to drive my car prior to replacing the knock sensor. If they would have advised against it, I wouldn't have driven it. I am not the "expert" and I PAID them for diagnosis! If it was false advice they gave me (which it obviously was), then that's on them. Again, I am not the expert.
Also, they are seemingly trying to use the "we found engine sludge in his engine" against me. Well, when one goes to the doctor and complains about X, Y or Z, the doctor checks his/her patient's history, right? Why didn't Motorwerks check my vehicle history if "replacing the knock sensor was the first step" or when they diagnose a customer's car and are not sure what the problem may be? It should be noted that, what I have learned since, is the purpose of a knock sensor is to detect and alert to an engine "knock," which means that there could be something internally wrong with the motor. A knock sensor is like a stethoscope used by a doctor...it's secured to the engine and detects problems within. In my case, it seems that the knock sensor did exactly what it was designed to do, i.e. detected a knock, which was what caused my engine to seize. Why did Motorwerks advise that I replace the knock sensor, when the knock sensor seemed to do what it was designed to do? To me, Motorwerks knew about the presence of engine sludge and damage to my motor, but tried to sell me on $2,500.00 worth of services (replace the knock sensor) on a damaged engine. And then, after I spent that money with Motorwerks, they would then sell me on MORE services, knowing that replacing the knock sensor would not remedy the warning lights and loss of power. That is fraudulent, misleading, and deceitful business practices.
Finally, they claimed that they offered me "several cost effective repair options with discounts." That is an outright lie. They offered to replace my engine for $29,804.81, but discounted it to $20,431.27. NO OTHER "COST EFFECTIVE REPAIR OPTIONS WITH DISCOUNTS" were extended. In fact, common sense tells you that there is ONLY one "option" to replace a useless engine....which is to REPLACE the useless engine. Motorwerks, you liars. Show me additional "options" that you extended....I'd love to see them.
Motorwerk's business practices are misleading, fraudulent and deceitful, or at the very least are absolutely incompetent. The public needs to know.
Revdex.com:
I have reviewed the response made by the business in reference to complaint ID [redacted], and find that this resolution is satisfactory to me.
Initial Business Response /* (1000, 7, 2015/11/23) */
Received business response via e-mail to Revdex.com -- is a copy of a letter / e-mail previously sent to Mr [redacted]:
"Mr. [redacted]-
We had Ryan the used car sales manager reach out to you by phone earlier today and he left you his contact...
info so you could reach him back. We have your incoming call to Mr. [redacted] recorded (at 2:47 pm) and during that time the following was discussed:
- You asked for the availability of the 2003 Land Rover which Mr. [redacted] affirmed is still for sale
- You asked if we take trades and provided information about your Lincoln and approx. trade payoff
- You asked if you could arrive around 4:30 - 5:00 to see the vehicle and Brad said he would have the vehicle ready for you
- You also asked if we offer in house financing and Brad confirmed we do
During the 4:14 call you never asked or inferred about the condition of the vehicle and Mr. [redacted] never discuss anything regarding the condition as your post suggests.
The description that is on our website for the 2003 Land Rover (pasted below) also does not suggest "good" condition:
HSE trim. Leather, Nav System, Moonroof, Rear Air, Multi-CD Changer, 4x4, Hitch, Aluminum Wheels.
KEY FEATURES INCLUDE
Leather Seats, Navigation, 4x4, Rear Air, Multi-CD Changer. Keyless Entry, Privacy Glass, Child Safety Locks, Steering Wheel Controls, Rear Parking Aid.
EXPERTS RAVE
Edmunds Editors' Most Wanted Midsize SUV Over $45,000. Edmunds.com's review says "Range Rover delivers a satisfying blend of on-road comfort and off-road capability in a stylish package.".
MORE ABOUT US
Motorwerks BMW is proud to be the Midwest's largest Certified Pre-Owned BMW dealership, and the #1 Pre-Owned luxury retailer for the Penske Automotive Group. We are one of 38 dealers in the country to earn the coveted Center of Excellence for BMW, which recognizes the top dealers for sales, service, and customer satisfaction.
Please confirm the accuracy of the included equipment by calling us prior to purchase.
We unlike many other dealers provide an in-depth inspection and disclose everything we identify on the vehicle. Many other dealers in town do not provide this level of transparency. During your visit Mr. [redacted] provided you a copy of the vehicles inspection for you to review. We are sorry you did not like mechanical condition described in the inspection but we did not "bait and switch" as you claim.
In terms of pricing, we are a market based pricing store and sell vehicles based on a local comparative set of similar priced vehicles.
If you would like to discuss more please return Ryan's voice mail. I would ask you to retract your untrue statements. We take pride in our level of transparency we provide which sets us apart from others that leave it up to the buyer to discover the vehicles condition on their own.
Best,
Motorwerks BMW Team"
Thank you for the opportunity to address this situation & provide relevant facts. The program that Mrs. [redacted] refers to requires the maintenance contract must be canceled by the vehicle owner before the vehicle is sold, traded in or transferred to another party. A consumer...
cannot cancel a program on a vehicle that they no longer own. This rule protects the manufacturer from an incident where a new owner comes in, the policy shows active & work is done on a contract that is not valid as prior owner is canceling it after the fact. It also protects dealers from taking in a vehicle on trade that shows a valid contract inclusion, which increases the vehicles resale value only to have the contract then cancelled by the prior owner after the fact. This can cause legal issues for the dealer now representing the car as well as issues for the next owner who had proof the contract was in place at the time of purchase. This cancellation requirement is the same process requirement on all of these plans across the nation. It unfortunately is not something in our control to make an exception on even though we do feel for Mrs. [redacted]’s situation. Ms. [redacted], by her own admission, did not cancel the contract prior to her sale of her vehicle. She has made statements as to what that new dealer was telling her to do incorrectly, even though they had never seen the contract, knew none of the parameters on that contract. They had her buy & trade quickly telling her to cancel later which created this situation for her unfortunately. The majority of buyers purchasing a vehicle shop for months, weeks or days prior to finalizing a purchase. It is usually a major decision taking up considerable time wherein consumers deciding to sell or trade will cancel the eligible programs in advance of selling which we gladly process on a regular basis without incident. In a situation where a client makes a faster buying decision, if they have a contract to cancel they would need to ensure that they did so before finalizing the sale or transfer. In this case for example, Mrs. [redacted] could have exercised her right to schedule the new vehicle purchase for a future date of a simple a few days later allowing her time to process the cancelation while she still legally owned the vehicle on that policy. We did in fact still try to submit her request with an explanation on her behalf asking for consideration but when the manufacturer searched the VIN # they found that she had not requested it prior to selling her car, therefore the refund claim was denied. The program is staying with the car per guidelines set forth in that program. We have sincerely apologize for her frustration & have talked at length several times with her on the same.Sincerely,[redacted]CSI LeaderMotorwerks BMW###-###-####
Response received via e-mail to Revdex.com, 7-26-17 -- additional document attached; text of response reads as follows: We appreciate the opportunity to provide the facts in this case & are happy to hear that he was pleased with his experience with our staff. The records we reviewed showed...
that Mr. [redacted] drove a service loaner 320 model that did not have lane avoidance. In fact that is not an available option that can be ordered on the base 320 model. The saved VINS info from the day he was here is inconsistent with his claims unfortunately. Discussions had occurred early on when he was here originally about the upgraded 330 models having the features he desired being hundreds of dollars more per month which was well over his stated budget. The loaner he drove & liked but didn't want to buy used was closely matched in a new vehicle that fit his payment point & color specifications. The vehicle was brought over for him (by his own admission) to look over, we even parked it inside our very well lit climate controlled show floor so that he could familiarize himself with the car before signing out. The window sticker for the vehicle showed exactly the features. At no time while he states he was waiting 4 hours here did any questions or discussions occur that he would prefer to buy a car with the features he states now should have been included. Unfortunately Mr. [redacted] instead of contacting us immediately after delivery if he wanted to exchange for a different upgraded vehicle right away, if he decided he could spend more to move up into a vehicle with the features he wanted instead waited an entire week to fill out a survey & post poorly online which we received the following week. An entire week due to Mr. [redacted] had passed wherein the title work & financing were already processed by then. Had he contacted us immediately we MAY have been able to cancel the deal & work a new deal but his path of actions has him in a situation wherein now he is an owner & trading is the only option. Mr. [redacted] also spoke about a non-highline, non-high performance, non-European brand he said had the features he wanted for the same money & that he regretted not buying it. We believe there maybe some confusion on his part over their features for their payment vs what the vehicle here had at the same payment range. He also stated he really wanted the BMW logo, that is was important to him which is why he went with BMW vs brand not in this class. We believe Mr. [redacted] sadly has buyer’s remorse after-the-fact & that he feels his negative postings will force us to give him the car his budget would not allow for (as he has referenced posting more reviews we believe in an attempt to try to influence what he wants us to do), unfortunately that is not how we do business. We stand on the truth, on the facts & ethics. Please see his purchase survey, which is attached, wherein he clearly states that he is responsible for not verifying the vehicle he purchased had the features he claims he needed. Wherein he also clearly states he does like this BMW he has & wherein he clearly states that he has buyer’s remorse. Even though Mr. [redacted] may not have gone about trying to exchange or upgrade his car in a proper normal or timely manner we have in fact reviewed with him extensively, we have ran numbers on other cars with the features he claims he needs now providing him with pricing consideration where we can to try to ease the situation. The features he desires, as stated to him originally & since then, are several hundred dollars more per month in a payment that he states he cannot afford, as he stated initially to us (as well in notes to your offices & other reviews), does not work out in his available budget. While we do feel for Mr. [redacted]'s wishes to drive a upgraded nicer model with features he wishes he had purchased we do believe we have gone over the options. We have given him fair consideration on all but cannot grant his wish to simply give him a more expensive car at the payment of a base entry level model that he agreed to purchase & completed a purchase on. We are glad to hear that he does like his current BMW & we thank you for the opportunity to provide this information for your consideration.
Response received via e-mail to Revdex.com: Thank you for the opportunity to address the claims of Mrs. [redacted] on her pre-owned 2014 BMW purchase.The sales purchase experience concerns on her vehicle we have already addressed with her prior & resolved to her satisfaction at that time. The...
salesman she refers to has been with us over 10 years, has never received a single complaint from any client & unfortunately some of her comments are taken out of context. As noted though they were promptly addressed at that time & as such is not just to reopen again.For the service side of her concerns please know that we apologized profusely numerous times, by numerous people here to Mrs. [redacted] on the unintentional error of a fine intentioned but new young gentleman in the drive who accidentally tried to show her to the wrong vehicle. It was a simple mistake by a kind young man who was new to our team & yes he made a human error for which we keep apologizing for as Mrs. [redacted] will not accept any apology as it is brought up at each contact point with numerous people here & now to your offices. We do hope we can move forward after another apology herein on a truly simple unintentional error.The wheels clear coat peeling we as well apologized profusely to her for & assured her that it was covered by the warranty, that we would get them taken care of. It is correct that they had not cured correctly the first time & had to be redone which was covered by the warranty and was handled with that provider.The door dings is an unusual situation as they were not on the outside of the doors or exterior of the car they were inside the door jambs, an area that is not normally considered for reconditioning of dings or marks on a pre-owned vehicle but we appreciated her concern as a real estate agent that she would have clients getting into her back seat, that she was concerned about that appearance. We inspected, myself included & agreed with her ultimately on her concerns. We offered to have those fixed at our sole expense, even though a used 2014 vehicle is not intended to be as perfect as a brand new vehicle, even though it was not mentioned until weeks after the sale was completed. An issue such as these should have been mentioned before the sale is finalized but we took both concerns to heart for her & agreed to correct both.While Mrs. [redacted] BMW has been in for these repairs we provided her with a brand new 2017 BMW to drive, years newer than hers, new body style as well to impress not only her but her clients in the meantime with no mileage restrictions so that she could be free to conduct her business in our new car, as well not putting any miles on her car while it was in for the repairs. The initial repair on the rear door jamb interior, they are a pearlized white color, had a small ding missed that could only be seen in certain light, when looking at it from numerous different angles. Straight on when opening the rear door to enter the rear passenger seat it was not visible to any until pointed out & even then difficult to identify. None-the-less we apologized when she noticed this & agreed to send it back to the body shop. Which was completed while she was still in our brand new courtesy BMW.The timeline for these repairs was subject to our outside vendors schedules, not ours, not hers. We communicated their updates as we received them. At one point Mrs. [redacted] perhaps misunderstood a conversation about body shop timing, then wheel repair timing and we addressed this with her for the correct expectation of done time. The conversation was in the presence of several other staff members who stated that the correct timeline was given to her but unfortunately somehow misunderstood. For which we also apologized including contacting her myself while out of the office to make sure she knew we were concerned. This clients vehicle’s repairs were completed in full, were inspected by her upon completion and were to her approval on final repairs. We had washed her BMW a few days prior, while waiting for her return it was exposed to conditions outside on the lot but we were unable to rewash it at that time due to the fresh wheel repair that needed a full 72 hours to cure before going through any wash or having any chemicals which we explained to her at the time of her pick up & as well explained that we did wipe down the exterior carefully by hand since a rewash was not possible.We have paid a significant amount to a body shop to repair & repaint her interior rear door jambs at our cost. This being an area we have not ever before reconditioned on any used vehicle. While performing this free work for her & while having the wheel repair warranty repair completed she was provided with a brand new BMW to drive at no cost, with no mileage limitations. Our door jamb repair was our gift to her & there will be no further compensation consideration at this point due to many factors of this situation at the time as well as since then.Thank you for your consideration on this matter. Sincerely,UrsulaCSI LeaderMotorwerks BMW
Good afternoon, we appreciate the opportunity to provide the true & relevant facts on this case as follows Mr [redacted] 's BMW is an older model with over 100,miles on itThe issues that its seeing, the service history expense that it has had it not unusual for a vehicle of this type over 100,mileWhen Mr [redacted] 's BMW was in our care to estimate the cause of an oil leak spot on his garage floor we took photos, see attached please, as we advised him that there was significant oil or fluids leaking on his vehicle So much so it was so dirty at that time it was not possible to determine where the oil leak, or leaks as they maybe, were coming fromIn discussions with Mr [redacted] , instead of guessing on what might be leaking, we suggested that he allowed us to pressure wash the engine & trans area first to get it cleanThen have him come back after putting some miles on it so that we could look to see where in fact an actual leak was coming from on the cleaned engine in order to provide him with an accurate diagnosisMr [redacted] agreed with our ethical suggestion & we cleaned the engine components, discussed him coming back in - 1,miles so that the now cleaned engine would easier to see where or what is leaking Instead Mr [redacted] took it to another shop, which then as expected would happen after it was cleaned & driven as we suggested, saw an oil leak that we also would have seen had we had the opportunity to complete the diagnosis process that we had discussed at our shopWe are happy that our efforts to clean the engine & have him drive it did produce the results that we discussed with himOur service manager called Mr [redacted] to discuss his concerns one on one, offered to have him bring his vehicle in, stay with his vehicle the entire time while we brought it into our shop so that we could show him first hand of our findings on the CV boot He explained we stand behind our BMW certified technicians findings, which were verified by our shop foreman as well the day his car was here That we would happy to show him the issue in personMr[redacted] unfortunately though was argumentative to the point where it was not possible to continue the conversation as the client refused to listen or accept our offer to stand behind our findings, to show him in person what we were quoting, what we had reported to him He stated his car was at an independent shop & he would not cooperate in a civil conversation effortMr [redacted] 's contentions that we mislead him on the upper CV boot have proven to be caused by an incorrect, incomplete inspection by his independent aftermarket shop he refers as reputable Out of concern our service manager called the manager of that independent shop to discuss this clients accusations & talked with him about our findings on the CV boot as it posed a safety issue for this client Asked him to personally go out to the car with his technician & look exactly where we had, where he would find the torn CV boot, void of all grease in fact as we had advised this client of 100% correctlyThat manager did so & called us back to apologize that his technician, the shop Mr [redacted] trusted instead of a certified BMW mechanic, had in fact completely missed in his inspection The aftermarket shop not only failed to find the torn & damaged component that we correctly identified as safety issue but also gave the customer information creating the majority of his discontent as they told him they looked it, they incorrectly told him it was not torn Their shop was fraudulent in their business practices at worst case causing this customer to be so upset, not competent to examine the CV boot issue at best This aftermarket shop manager, after being told by our reputable business where to find the failure 100% verified that our findings were spot onIn fact the boot had leaked out all the axle grease as we stated & needed the axle replaced once they were in there working on it with the boot off to see all of the damage it had sustainedThis was a safety issue had it come apart while driving that our shop quoted & their shop denied existed initially until informed by our shop where to look, how to find itThe aftermarket shop has apologized to us for their part in this situation as their error or unskilled tech provided information to this client which was categorically false Their statements could have caused a serious concern had we not called them out of concern for this customers safety to help them correctly identify the safety issue to keep this customer from a serious issue had he believed them on their initial incorrect statementsOur store has credited back the diagnostic fee on the recent visit per Mr [redacted] 's request as a goodwill gesture to him even though our diagnosis on all was 100% correct which we will stand by every day with our factory trained certified technicians providing honest, ethical & true diagnosisWe appreciate the opportunity to provide the true facts in this case, thank you for your consideration & wish Mr [redacted] all the best with his choice of automotive repair shops~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Sincerely, Ursula CSI Leader Motorwerks BMW
Initial Business Response / [redacted] (1000, 8, 2016/03/04) */ This response is in reference to a claim you sent us from Mr [redacted] , hereinafter referred to as "client", case # [redacted] Thank you for the opportunity to respond with the proper details for your offices review As the client notes, he declined our suggestions & took his BMW 135i, which was in poor drivability condition, to have repairs performed at an independent, i.enon-certified BMW repair shopAs client notes specifically he then took his vehicle from them even though they noted it still had issues & a short time later suffered what we have determined to be a major engine failureHis issues respectfully need to be addressed with his referenced "Mechanic B" We do not have any firsthand knowledge of what was or was not said to the client at the independent shop he took his car toWhat we do know is that we have advised him of our initial findings when it's been here, have found sludge in the engine months ago on 7/6/at 99,miles which can contribute to numerous failures & furthermore do not have any knowledge nor control over how this client was driving his BMW with its poor mechanical condition The work our certified BMW technicians quoted as a starting point of repairs on his 12/29/appointment wherein his BMW had 114,miles, per BMW guidelines for his symptoms, was declinedThe client chose to drive away & keep driving it even though he indicates two repair shops advised him of repairs he states he declined, which his choice unfortunately likely resulted in an engine failure which is the clients full responsibility as he clearly notes he declined the recommended repairs from both shops Clients BMW has been at our facility a few times & the service history shows that oil change interval, maintenances were lapsedOur records July of we found sludge in his engine, which is a direct symptom in most cases of lack of proper maintenance & may cause numerous failures including but not limited to the failure present now This is the notation on these visits from our Service Manager: This vehicle has been seen at our dealership several timesWe performed services on it in July of and discovered the engine to be suffering from sludge in the crankcaseMade note of it on the repair orderReleased the vehicle to the customerVehicle returned to Motorwerks 12/for diagnosis, vehicle had a check engine light on, reduced powerwe performed diagnostics on the vehicle per BMW diagnostic guidelinesRan the test plan in compliance with BMW guidelines and summarized we needed to replace the knock sensor as a first stepWe advised Mr [redacted] of the needed repairs, provided an estimate which was declined by Mr [redacted] Mr [redacted] then took his vehicle (so he claimed) to an independent repair facility to have a knock sensor installed(Client claims): The independent repair facility made the repairs and instructed Mr [redacted] that the vehicle still had complications and needed further research/diagnostics to establish what is wrong with itMr [redacted] (told us he) declined to have that service performed from the independent repair facility as he wished to drive the vehicle over the weekend and return the vehicle to them on MondayAfter leaving the independent repair facility, Mr [redacted] notes he suffered a break down with his vehicleMr [redacted] had his vehicle towed to our shop where we determined his engine had suffered a catastrophic failure and would need to be replaced We have offered Mr [redacted] several cost effective options to repair his vehicle - all of which have been declined Mr [redacted] 's concerns need to be addressed with (as he references in his claim) "Mechanic B" as that is who he states worked on this engine directly before the catastrophic failure & as well allowed him to take it to drive after their repairsWhatever they found, performed or advised is not in our control nor do we have any control of quality of their work This engine failure situation is no way the fault of Motorwerks BMW as we were not authorized to do the repairs & his issue needs to be addressed with his "Mechanic B" We have graciously provided several cost effective repair options with discounts for this client which are still available to him for the next business days if he would like to accept Initial Consumer Rebuttal / [redacted] (3000, 11, 2016/03/07) */ (The consumer indicated he/she DID NOT accept the response from the business.) Their response is full of lies, mischaracterizations of the truth, and leaves out material facts Motorwerks failed to admit that they TOLD ME, after I specifically asked them, that replacing the Knock Sensor would remedy the warning lights and reduced powerThey did NOT tell me, and there is absolutely no documentation to suggest, that "replacing the knock sensor was the first step." If it was simply the "first step," why did they charge me $for diagnosis? How many "steps" was it going to take, Motorwerks? Do they tell ALL of their customers that the $diagnosis fee will only cover the "first step"? Obviously, they are admitting that their diagnosis was incorrect, yet claim NO liability...good business practices (see Extreme Sarcasm)I paid them for a diagnosis, and they simply gave me a "what if" or a "we THINK it's X"? I didn't pay for a "what if" or "we THINK it's X" or a "first step"I paid them for a proper diagnosis, which they obviously screwed up Further, they TOLD ME, when I specifically asked them, that it was OK to continue to drive my car prior to replacing the knock sensorIf they would have advised against it, I wouldn't have driven itI am not the "expert" and I PAID them for diagnosis! If it was advice they gave me (which it obviously was), then that's on themAgain, I am not the expert Also, they are seemingly trying to use the "we found engine sludge in his engine" against meWell, when one goes to the doctor and complains about X, Y or Z, the doctor checks his/her patient's history, right? Why didn't Motorwerks check my vehicle history if "replacing the knock sensor was the first step" or when they diagnose a customer's car and are not sure what the problem may be? It should be noted that, what I have learned since, is the purpose of a knock sensor is to detect and alert to an engine "knock," which means that there could be something internally wrong with the motorA knock sensor is like a stethoscope used by a doctor...it's secured to the engine and detects problems withinIn my case, it seems that the knock sensor did exactly what it was designed to do, i.edetected a knock, which was what caused my engine to seizeWhy did Motorwerks advise that I replace the knock sensor, when the knock sensor seemed to do what it was designed to do? To me, Motorwerks knew about the presence of engine sludge and damage to my motor, but tried to sell me on $2,worth of services (replace the knock sensor) on a damaged engineAnd then, after I spent that money with Motorwerks, they would then sell me on MORE services, knowing that replacing the knock sensor would not remedy the warning lights and loss of powerThat is fraudulent, misleading, and deceitful business practices Finally, they claimed that they offered me "several cost effective repair options with discounts." That is an outright lieThey offered to replace my engine for $29,804.81, but discounted it to $20,NO OTHER "COST EFFECTIVE REPAIR OPTIONS WITH DISCOUNTS" were extendedIn fact, common sense tells you that there is ONLY one "option" to replace a useless engine....which is to REPLACE the useless engineMotorwerks, you liarsShow me additional "options" that you extended....I'd love to see them Motorwerk's business practices are misleading, fraudulent and deceitful, or at the very least are absolutely incompetentThe public needs to know
I am rejecting this response because: The information provided to me was inaccurate, the transfer case was and still is working fine, the diagnosis went from transfer case to actuator motorI was not provided any documentation on what was communicated by the technicians for repairs even though I requested it multiple times.the reason I believe that Motowerks is solely focused on the costly repairs is that when I brought up my seat heater malfunction they did not address it telling me that BMW does not address those concernsOnly after my complaints did the bring it up and that too at a significant cost to myselfThere is no concern as to why the seat heater burnt a hole through the cushion as well as my pantsThey are not concerned about the customers safety rather it seems they are just a parts replacement shop
Response received via e-mail to Revdex.com: Good morning, thank you for the opportunity to provide the true facts in this situation Unfortunately what the client [redacted] is stating does not match our records It is unfortunate that she has taken this stance & has also put herself now in a situation where BMW may start the repossession process on this BMW as she has failed to complete her part of the transaction Her salesman & our finance rep both talked with her about the options between Wings & BMW Financial ServicesThey showed her that with the benefits she was better off to finance with BMW Financial Services, which she fully agreed to at the timeIn fact signing the documents agreeing to finance with BMW Financial Services with her full authorization signatures Her statement that Tom was going to "call the bank & set up the financing" after she left with the car are categorically false No vehicle leaves unless the loan process is first fully completedThis is widely known in the industry that a client is not given a vehicle while the dealership "calls" a financial institution after the fact Facts are the client must always complete the loan documents first before possession occurs What she is saying does not make sense, is not what was agreed up & is not legal for us (or any dealership to do) A bank cannot grant financing on anything based on a phone call from the rep as she claims She would not have been given the car All banks require all of their specific documents to be processed, to be signed for by the client & complete prior to clients receipt of any vehicle or product Please see the attached documents that prove this client has failed to follow through on her purchase obligations & as well shows that we promptly did exactly as was discussed which refutes her claims Client called on a Monday, the situation was discussed in the afternoon that she had since decided to change to Wings, yes claiming that is what she wanted originally but her signatures on the other documents show that this was not what she agreed to days earlier Those documents to change to her preferred bank, as was promised, were promptly Fed-Ex'd out to her within hours (after receiving cancelation approval from BMW which had to happen first before new contracts could be issued which was explained to her), contracts which she received the next morning around a.mas proved by the attached Ftracking.Clients obligation was to immediately complete those documents, returning them to us the very same day was the discussed expectation & a return prepaid Fenvelope was provided for her convenience She was instructed to do this right away as she already had the vehicle, this was an unusual situation that needed her full cooperation to remain in good standings with the bank of her choice & with BMW.As of today's date, as of this writing, the client has failed to return the documents to us in the prepaid Fso that the bank loan can be finalized & securedSee attached Therefore this client is in receipt of a vehicle she knowingly has not paid for or completed the purchase of, she has paperwork in her possession she was required to complete & immediately return to ensure the loan but as she has not followed through, for unknown reasons, is now in a situation wherein if not corrected immediately (if she does not follow through on returning the required financial documents to transfer the loan into her financing) may result in BMW repossessing the car as she is driving it without completing the financial obligations she was required to complete days ago If the repossession is started, that will be on her permanent record & may cause issues with her being able to lease or finance with BMW in the future.As stated it is very unfortunate that the client has filed a report (from dates on your complaint it appears that she filed her complaint AFTER she received the new documents from us), please see attached that shows we did exactly as was promised & as well shows that she has not only received what she needs to change the financing promptly but clearly shows she failed to complete her end of the transaction as of this writing While we do feel for the client that she changed her mind on where to finance after the fact, we do not understand why when we did everything promised to grant her wish to change it that she has not cooperated on her end to secure her loan & her purchase This situation is in her hands solely.We truly hope that she will get her required steps completed quickly so that this can be closed out & not become a bigger issue for her legally as she is currently driving a vehicle she has not legally purchased.Sincerely,UrsulaCSI LeaderMotorwerks BMW
We appreciate the opportunity to review this customers concerns & provide relevant details We have reached out to [redacted] directly to review & address with himWe have apologized to him & do accept responsibility for the gap in communication with his salesman that was unintentional which has been addressed with our staff This vehicle has 98xxx miles on it & was sold AS IS due to mileage & conditions noted on the safety inspection He signed the AS IS statement when purchasing this vehicle & declined any extended warranty options that may or may not have offered him coverage on the items he has noted if he had purchased the extended warranty option [redacted] chose not to test drive this vehicle before purchase which is unusual As all clients do he had the right to have it inspected by his own mechanic prior to purchase Prior to selling this vehicle our shop performed a standard safety inspection, an oil change service, replaced the rear brake pads & rotors also replaced a turn signal bulb As of todays date we have provided him with a copy of our inspection report findings, reviewed the findings of our inspection & offered our cost on any of the items he would like to have done at our shop along with a rental car for day during the repairs if needed We have also offered to take a look at the heat shield & if possible resecure it so that it is not rattling to which he has agreed to accept Thank you for the opportunity to address & provide the relevant details We do pride ourselves in excellent customer service & hope to regain this customers loyalty
Initial Business Response / [redacted] (1000, 7, 2015/11/23) */ Received business response via e-mail to Revdex.com -- is a copy of a letter / e-mail previously sent to Mr [redacted] : "Mr [redacted] - We had Ryan the used car sales manager reach out to you by phone earlier today and he left you his contact info so you could reach him backWe have your incoming call to Mr [redacted] recorded (at 2:pm) and during that time the following was discussed: - You asked for the availability of the Land Rover which Mr [redacted] affirmed is still for sale - You asked if we take trades and provided information about your Lincoln and approxtrade payoff - You asked if you could arrive around 4:- 5:to see the vehicle and Brad said he would have the vehicle ready for you - You also asked if we offer in house financing and Brad confirmed we do During the 4:call you never asked or inferred about the condition of the vehicle and Mr [redacted] never discuss anything regarding the condition as your post suggests The description that is on our website for the Land Rover (pasted below) also does not suggest "good" condition: HSE trimLeather, Nav System, Moonroof, Rear Air, MulChanger, 4x4, Hitch, Aluminum Wheels KEY FEATURES INCLUDE Leather Seats, Navigation, 4x4, Rear Air, MulChangerKeyless Entry, Privacy Glass, Child Safety Locks, Steering Wheel Controls, Rear Parking Aid EXPERTS RAVE Edmunds Editors' Most Wanted Midsize SUV Over $45,Edmunds.com's review says "Range Rover delivers a satisfying blend of on-road comfort and off-road capability in a stylish package." MORE ABOUT US Motorwerks BMW is proud to be the Midwest's largest Certified Pre-Owned BMW dealership, and the #Pre-Owned luxury retailer for the Penske Automotive GroupWe are one of dealers in the country to earn the coveted Center of Excellence for BMW, which recognizes the top dealers for sales, service, and customer satisfaction Please confirm the accuracy of the included equipment by calling us prior to purchase We unlike many other dealers provide an in-depth inspection and disclose everything we identify on the vehicleMany other dealers in town do not provide this level of transparencyDuring your visit Mr [redacted] provided you a copy of the vehicles inspection for you to reviewWe are sorry you did not like mechanical condition described in the inspection but we did not "bait and switch" as you claim In terms of pricing, we are a market based pricing store and sell vehicles based on a local comparative set of similar priced vehicles If you would like to discuss more please return Ryan's voice mailI would ask you to retract your untrue statementsWe take pride in our level of transparency we provide which sets us apart from others that leave it up to the buyer to discover the vehicles condition on their own Best, Motorwerks BMW Team"
Revdex.com NOTE: It appears that Motorwerks responded to this promptly upon receipt, but e-mail and accompanying documents did not initially reach Revdex.comBusiness re-sent response successfully, including attached PDF of accompanying docs.In response, Motorwerks provided copies of e-mails sent to customer on 2/and 2/14, explaining that the dealership has submitted paperwork to 'Fast Track' the customer's title at its own expense, and will not be buying his vehicle back, as the customer requests.E-mails read as follows: SENT 2/13/18......Hi [redacted] ***We understand your frustrationThis issue has been the sole result of the new license and registration system (MNLARS) that went live in the whole state of Minnesota two days after you bought your vehicleAll the transactions that we used to be able to do quickly were either slowed down or not available to us at all----which was not made known to us before the system went live.This new system caused great delays in getting your vehicle registered and also getting the title printed---so we were not able to follow the timelines of the MN statutes due to the state’s own admittance to these issues—so these timelines for registration and submitting documents are extremely subjective due to the specific issues each title is facing(the title for your other vehicle might not have had any issues and also we found out the state was picking and choosing which titles to process and not necessarily going in order of date--- We have some customers that purchased in the summer and are still waiting on titles while we have other customers that bought in December and received their title already in January----the state has already gotten in trouble for doing this.Your vehicle has already been registered to your name since 10/13/.so we cannot stop the transfer it has already happenedThe issue is not registration----the issue is getting the rest of your documents cleared with the state so they can get your title printed.We were told by our local DMV that we had to wait for a letter from the state of MN before we could send in the rest of your documents in to clear----and we still haven’t received that letter to this dayHowever---I had just found out in the last week that this process has changed and that we can now send in missing documents without waiting for the state to update their records first Since I have found this out---I have been working on clearing many other titles as well and I just hadn’t gotten to yours yetBut I will be putting your “title clearing” to the top of the pile.I also have just found out that under “extra-ordinary” circumstances that the state “might” allow a title to be “fast tracked” under the new “MNLARS” system-----for example---leaving the country.However I cannot fast track this title through our local DMV ..we are forced to send it directly to the state of MN.So since I have to order checks to pay for the clearing and fast tracking---the earliest I will be able to send your documents to the state of MN will be this Thursday 02/15/ and then hopefully the state will approve the “fast track” and clear your title within the next couple of weeks .but there is no guarantee that they will approve it .all we can do is send it and apply for the fast track and the rest is up to the state of MN ..so we have no actual control as to when they will process itFrom: [redacted] ,Cathy Sent: Wednesday, February 14, 12:PMTo: ? ? < [redacted] >Cc: [redacted] ,Matt Subject: COPY OF WHAT SENDING TO STATE OF MN Hi [redacted] ***I attached some of the documents that I will be sending to clear your titleI can't show you all of them due to previous owner privacy...but I have included the following:1) FEDEX LABEL that has tracking number of when the state will receive the paperwork--(the state should be receiving your paperwork on Thursday, FEB 15th---but it's hard to know when they will process it)2) copy of the application to "EXPEDITE" your title clearing process3) copy of the checks used to pay for the clearing and the expediting fee I sent the proper documents along with the items listed above to clear your title so the state can print it and send it to youTHANK YOU,CATHY [redacted] TITLE CLERKMOTORWERKS BMW/MINI###-###-####
Initial Business Response / [redacted] (1000, 5, 2015/10/08) */ Good afternoon Mr***, Thank you for forwarding this consumers concern to our attention The concerns have been addressed with this consumerPlease see the attached files as proof of such The consumer also received proof of his refund on 9/30/which is also attached for your review We ask though please that these documents attached are not included in public view due to privacy laws for the consumers protection but have provided them to show your offices the proper contact, handling & actions occurred Thank you in advance for your consideration Initial Consumer Rebuttal / [redacted] (3000, 7, 2015/10/16) */ (The consumer indicated he/she DID NOT accept the response from the business.) Motorwerks BMW re-listed the vehicle for sale for almost weeks before it refunded my deposit Motorwerks BMW never corrected the listing even with the knowledge that the car was in an accident
Thank you for the information on this unfortunate complaint. We have attached a copy of the AS IS agreement that this client signed. This client, as all clients do, had the opportunity to have this vehicle inspected by a mechanic of his own prior to purchase, prior to ownership
which he did not exercise his rights to do so. This client also had the opportunity to purchase extended warranties on this vehicle that may, or may not have, provided him assistance with the issues that it is having but he declined those options when he purchased this vehicle AS IS. While we do feel for this client that the vehicle has had issues, it was clearly disclosed that it was an AS IS sale & was so due to the fact that this is a vehicle, produced & in service in it is over years old with unknown history. The clients claims & contentions are concerning but untrue. We always are happy to share inspection reports, have them have their own mechanic look cars over before making a purchase decision. At the time of purchase this client declined those options, test drove the vehicle & made a decision to purchase it as his own risk. The AS IS disclaimer was posted on the vehicle itself & as well printed off, signed by the client, copies given to this client. The vehicle pricing was reduced below retail as well due to the AS IS nature of the sale. The client has engaged in language & behaviors that we will not condone nor subject our staff to which is why we have ceased communications with him after trying initially. We refute his claims & will not be supporting his requests on his AS IS purchase wherein he declined the extended warranty coverage that may have provided the coverages he is seeking after the fact. Please see the attached documentsThank you
I am rejecting this response because:By chance what is the color of the vehicle you have me test driving?How did a test drive a vehicle that doesn't have the options you stated when your own sales guy showed me how the touch screen works?As far as the options you gave me to trade it back:Why couldn't anyone give me an option when we first talked? Why was Brian the only one who could handle this?Why did I have to wait weeks to get an option? Which in fact hurt me to the point of not being even able to explore different options since the vehicle had been registeredI would have to pay the depreciation value of my new car?The only option presented to me was an SUV at +$350/month to my already $525/ month lease. The best part is the reason it was going to be so high was the registration had been issued.I am willing to explore options beyond my current monthly payment but I am not willing to pay the depreciation of the vehicle I tried to take care of the 4th day after I got it
Revdex.com NOTE: Received 'rebuttal' response from business via e-mail, including PDF attachments of a credit report disclosure and motor vehicle retail installment contractPDF's are attached; text of accompanying e-mail reads as follows: We dispute the clients claims & have proof that she is being completely dishonest attached as well as below for your review.Why she is making claims & trying to escalate this situation beyond necessary we are not sureAll we can do is provide the facts for your review which thankfully are well documented.This client absolutely knew & agreed 100% signing out with the BMW Financial Services. See the attached truth in lending disclosure that she clearly signed acknowledging acceptance that day of financing with BMW. Yes she was preapproved with Wings, we showed her she was also approved with BMW FS & she chose that option that day as the benefits were better.Her stories of how she was taking the car & how she believes we were going to release the car to her based on her belief that we were going to call her bank the next day are simply...her stories. We have never in the year history of our business, released a car without a fullfilled purchase financial committment. Her claims of scam & other statements are completely unfounded. Tom has been with us for years & in the business over years without a single complaint or issue. We have processed car deals with Wings Financial & other banks hundreds of times a yearWe are happy to finance with whomever the client decides to finance with. As in this case, we presented the options for Wings vs BMW, she decided at the time that the BMW finance options were better (as witnessed by several employees in the discussions including her salesperson ) & she chose BMW as proven by her signatures on the attached for your review. The forms are in place to document what decisions were made.Had she chose Wings that day, the Wings disclosure & forms would have been processed for her signatures that day but that is now what occurred as proven by attached.The client then changed her mind, likely after speaking with her bank on Monday. She called wanting it changed, as proven in our past communications, even though not normally done, we promptly took care of the request to get that handled for herThere was no reason to file a complaint, we already had told her that we would get it handled for her. We already had a Fon its way out to her at the time she was filing a complaint.We are still confused why she filed a complaint & has taken this stance but provide all the documents to prove what we have said is correct.In her statement to your offices, her item #is completely false. As proven in the original documents we sent to you & in the forward below, she received the documents on Wednesday morning the 13th. She was told she needed to complete them right away & return them that same dayWhich she promised to do. In her statement she falsely claims she received them on the 15th, returned them on the 15thThat is not true. Please see attachments previously sent to you showing that she did not complete the documents as promised, as was dueShe held the documents for more than hours when they were to be returned to Fthe same day to secure the loan. She was asked again Friday the 15th to get them signed & sent back right away to which she tried to tell Tom he needed to just call WingsHe explained again that is not how this works, we sent her the loan documents that she has to sign, she must return.Due to her not following through on the stated process is why there was a risk of a repossession order being sent out as she had failed to fullfill the purchase obligation in the stated time frame. As of hours that Friday morning of no response, no return Fnotification it was triggering a warningThis is not something we initiate, it is because she had not cooperated with the process She had taken a car on Saturday, that she demaned financing be canceled on Monday & redone. Highly unusual but we honored her request & needed her to cooperate to get the vehicle secured within a day or two, not going into nearly a week later with no security on the vehicle she had takenShe had refused to simply come into the store to resign for Wings, the Fprocess was explained to her but she held the documents, not completing them for more than hours as well days from when she had taken the vehicle.Our notes were not a threat, they were facts of the situation due to her stating she refused to come into the store to resign & due to her not returning the purchase documents, as were required, the same day she received them they were to be on their way back to us. Simple facts of the situation which unfortunately were out of our control.As noted she finally did return the documents to Fafter p.mon the 15th, which we received the next morning & processed with BMW as well as with Wings to secure the loan, to stop the repossession notice before it became active. ALl of which of course completed her purchase with Wings & with BMW.We refute her claims & the attached documents as well as below documents prove that she knowingly financed with BMW Financial Services. Proves that we promptly did exactly as we stated & proves that the time lines she notes to your offices are falsified.Unfortunately she chooses to believe that she was somehow scammed, we do regret that she feels that way & ask that you review these documents which prove nothing of the sort happened.Thank you for your time & consideration. Sincerely,Ursula CSI LeaderMotorwerks BMW
I am rejecting this response because: While I understand ***'s response it still does not change the facts of what I was told when I purchased the vehicleI find it highly offensive that Motorwerks thinks I am stupid enough to put in am email that I traded the vehicle if I truly believed it mattered and that I was not told otherwiseHow long I looked for a vehicle is totally irrelevant to the facts of what I was told when I purchased the vehicleI did not trade the vehicle and request a refund based on what the dealer told me when I traded my vehicleI requested the refund based on what I was told when I purchased the vehicle from MotorwerksThe dealer ( who previously worked for Motorwerks) where I purchased my new vehicle just reiterated what I had been previously been told by MotorwerksWhen I purchased the vehicle in we were told by a Motorwerks representative that if we traded the vehicle the maintenance contract was transferable to a new BMW and if we sold it or traded to another dealer we could cancel the contract and the refund would be proratedNever did they say the words before you traded the vehicleMy husband asked the question multiple times when we were purchasing the BMW before we signed the paperwork and the finance rep said yes it is cancelableHe did not say yes but before you trade the vehicleIf we were given incorrect information it is the dealers responsibility to correct the situationIf they truly are a reputable business they would stand by their word regarding what we were told
I am rejecting this response because: It is a distortion of the truth and several attempts at deflection. All of my future responses to this business will be a copy and paste of my below response: The primary purpose of my complaint was to expose the financing practices of Tom ***, Finance Manager of Motorwerks BMW.The secondary purpose of my complaint was to warn other consumers. I asked for no compensation, nor restitution. Sincerely, *** ***
Initial Business Response /* (1000, 5, 2016/02/15) */
Good afternoon & thank you for the opportunity to address this customers concern
We have communicated thoroughly with this customer on the situation
The customer is aware that we are working diligently on his behalf with BMWThis is a
manufacturing issue from BMW, not an issue that Motorwerks caused nor has any direct control over
The customer is aware that we have ordered in different tail lamps as new replacements but all have arrived with the same issueWe also then ordered in several tail lights from opposite side hoping for a match, then sets together with no successCustomer is aware that we have BMW area rep involved & that he also has contacted BMW on the issue
Our BMW rep authorized the rare option to replace his tail lamps with like new, guaranteed & matching tail lamps off of a certified BMW on our lot = perfect conditionOur store was willing to down that car = that car would have to be taken off availability until correct matching tail lamps were produced by BMWThe client though declined this offer even though it would have solved the situation immediately for him
Customer is aware that BMW is working with the company producing the tail lamps & searching for a new matching set
When the customer left, after sharing all of this with him at each point in the process, he seemed to completely understand the situation appreciating as well that we were seeing this through with him to attain matching tail lamps
Motorwerks has this well documented that we had, well before he filed with your offices, contacted BMW on his behalf towards resolve on this
As we explained to the client, we appreciate his patience & understandingWe feel for him that there is a slight difference in appearance & we also want them to a perfect matched set for him
We are still working towards this goal for him, which he is well aware of & will be in touch with him as soon as BMW is able to provide us with the proper matching set
Thank you for the opportunity to provide the facts of this situation & we welcome hearing from your offices if we can provide you with any documentation on this we are more than happy to
Initial Business Response /* (1000, 8, 2016/03/04) */
This response is in reference to a claim you sent us from Mr. [redacted], hereinafter referred to as "client", case # [redacted]. Thank you for the opportunity to respond with the proper details for your offices review.
As the client...
notes, he declined our suggestions & took his 2010 BMW 135i, which was in poor drivability condition, to have repairs performed at an independent, i.e. non-certified BMW repair shop. As client notes specifically he then took his vehicle from them even though they noted it still had issues & a short time later suffered what we have determined to be a major engine failure. His issues respectfully need to be addressed with his referenced "Mechanic B".
We do not have any firsthand knowledge of what was or was not said to the client at the independent shop he took his car to. What we do know is that we have advised him of our initial findings when it's been here, have found sludge in the engine 5 months ago on 7/6/2015 at 99,684 miles which can contribute to numerous failures & furthermore do not have any knowledge nor control over how this client was driving his BMW with its poor mechanical condition.
The work our certified BMW technicians quoted as a starting point of repairs on his 12/29/2015 appointment wherein his BMW had 114,102 miles, per BMW guidelines for his symptoms, was declined. The client chose to drive away & keep driving it even though he indicates two repair shops advised him of repairs he states he declined, which his choice unfortunately likely resulted in an engine failure which is the clients full responsibility as he clearly notes he declined the recommended repairs from both shops.
Clients BMW has been at our facility a few times & the service history shows that oil change interval, maintenances were lapsed. Our records July of 2015 we found sludge in his engine, which is a direct symptom in most cases of lack of proper maintenance & may cause numerous failures including but not limited to the failure present now.
This is the notation on these visits from our Service Manager:
This vehicle has been seen at our dealership several times. We performed services on it in July of 2015 and discovered the engine to be suffering from sludge in the crankcase. Made note of it on the repair order. Released the vehicle to the customer. Vehicle returned to Motorwerks 12/29 for diagnosis, vehicle had a check engine light on, reduced power... we performed diagnostics on the vehicle per BMW diagnostic guidelines. Ran the test plan in compliance with BMW guidelines and summarized we needed to replace the knock sensor as a first step. We advised Mr. [redacted] of the needed repairs, provided an estimate which was declined by Mr. [redacted]. Mr. [redacted] then took his vehicle (so he claimed) to an independent repair facility to have a knock sensor installed. (Client claims): The independent repair facility made the repairs and instructed Mr. [redacted] that the vehicle still had complications and needed further research/diagnostics to establish what is wrong with it. Mr. [redacted] (told us he) declined to have that service performed from the independent repair facility as he wished to drive the vehicle over the weekend and return the vehicle to them on Monday. After leaving the independent repair facility, Mr. [redacted] notes he suffered a break down with his vehicle. Mr. [redacted] had his vehicle towed to our shop where we determined his engine had suffered a catastrophic failure and would need to be replaced.
We have offered Mr. [redacted] several cost effective options to repair his vehicle - all of which have been declined.
Mr. [redacted]'s concerns need to be addressed with (as he references in his claim) "Mechanic B" as that is who he states worked on this engine directly before the catastrophic failure & as well allowed him to take it to drive after their repairs. Whatever they found, performed or advised is not in our control nor do we have any control of quality of their work.
This engine failure situation is no way the fault of Motorwerks BMW as we were not authorized to do the repairs & his issue needs to be addressed with his "Mechanic B".
We have graciously provided several cost effective repair options with discounts for this client which are still available to him for the next 7 business days if he would like to accept.
Initial Consumer Rebuttal /* (3000, 11, 2016/03/07) */
(The consumer indicated he/she DID NOT accept the response from the business.)
Their response is full of lies, mischaracterizations of the truth, and leaves out material facts.
Motorwerks failed to admit that they TOLD ME, after I specifically asked them, that replacing the Knock Sensor would remedy the warning lights and reduced power. They did NOT tell me, and there is absolutely no documentation to suggest, that "replacing the knock sensor was the first step." If it was simply the "first step," why did they charge me $118.00 for diagnosis? How many "steps" was it going to take, Motorwerks? Do they tell ALL of their customers that the $118.00 diagnosis fee will only cover the "first step"? Obviously, they are admitting that their diagnosis was incorrect, yet claim NO liability...good business practices (see Extreme Sarcasm). I paid them for a diagnosis, and they simply gave me a "what if" or a "we THINK it's X"? I didn't pay for a "what if" or "we THINK it's X" or a "first step". I paid them for a proper diagnosis, which they obviously screwed up.
Further, they TOLD ME, when I specifically asked them, that it was OK to continue to drive my car prior to replacing the knock sensor. If they would have advised against it, I wouldn't have driven it. I am not the "expert" and I PAID them for diagnosis! If it was false advice they gave me (which it obviously was), then that's on them. Again, I am not the expert.
Also, they are seemingly trying to use the "we found engine sludge in his engine" against me. Well, when one goes to the doctor and complains about X, Y or Z, the doctor checks his/her patient's history, right? Why didn't Motorwerks check my vehicle history if "replacing the knock sensor was the first step" or when they diagnose a customer's car and are not sure what the problem may be? It should be noted that, what I have learned since, is the purpose of a knock sensor is to detect and alert to an engine "knock," which means that there could be something internally wrong with the motor. A knock sensor is like a stethoscope used by a doctor...it's secured to the engine and detects problems within. In my case, it seems that the knock sensor did exactly what it was designed to do, i.e. detected a knock, which was what caused my engine to seize. Why did Motorwerks advise that I replace the knock sensor, when the knock sensor seemed to do what it was designed to do? To me, Motorwerks knew about the presence of engine sludge and damage to my motor, but tried to sell me on $2,500.00 worth of services (replace the knock sensor) on a damaged engine. And then, after I spent that money with Motorwerks, they would then sell me on MORE services, knowing that replacing the knock sensor would not remedy the warning lights and loss of power. That is fraudulent, misleading, and deceitful business practices.
Finally, they claimed that they offered me "several cost effective repair options with discounts." That is an outright lie. They offered to replace my engine for $29,804.81, but discounted it to $20,431.27. NO OTHER "COST EFFECTIVE REPAIR OPTIONS WITH DISCOUNTS" were extended. In fact, common sense tells you that there is ONLY one "option" to replace a useless engine....which is to REPLACE the useless engine. Motorwerks, you liars. Show me additional "options" that you extended....I'd love to see them.
Motorwerk's business practices are misleading, fraudulent and deceitful, or at the very least are absolutely incompetent. The public needs to know.
Revdex.com:
I have reviewed the response made by the business in reference to complaint ID [redacted], and find that this resolution is satisfactory to me.
Initial Business Response /* (1000, 7, 2015/11/23) */
Received business response via e-mail to Revdex.com -- is a copy of a letter / e-mail previously sent to Mr [redacted]:
"Mr. [redacted]-
We had Ryan the used car sales manager reach out to you by phone earlier today and he left you his contact...
info so you could reach him back. We have your incoming call to Mr. [redacted] recorded (at 2:47 pm) and during that time the following was discussed:
- You asked for the availability of the 2003 Land Rover which Mr. [redacted] affirmed is still for sale
- You asked if we take trades and provided information about your Lincoln and approx. trade payoff
- You asked if you could arrive around 4:30 - 5:00 to see the vehicle and Brad said he would have the vehicle ready for you
- You also asked if we offer in house financing and Brad confirmed we do
During the 4:14 call you never asked or inferred about the condition of the vehicle and Mr. [redacted] never discuss anything regarding the condition as your post suggests.
The description that is on our website for the 2003 Land Rover (pasted below) also does not suggest "good" condition:
HSE trim. Leather, Nav System, Moonroof, Rear Air, Multi-CD Changer, 4x4, Hitch, Aluminum Wheels.
KEY FEATURES INCLUDE
Leather Seats, Navigation, 4x4, Rear Air, Multi-CD Changer. Keyless Entry, Privacy Glass, Child Safety Locks, Steering Wheel Controls, Rear Parking Aid.
EXPERTS RAVE
Edmunds Editors' Most Wanted Midsize SUV Over $45,000. Edmunds.com's review says "Range Rover delivers a satisfying blend of on-road comfort and off-road capability in a stylish package.".
MORE ABOUT US
Motorwerks BMW is proud to be the Midwest's largest Certified Pre-Owned BMW dealership, and the #1 Pre-Owned luxury retailer for the Penske Automotive Group. We are one of 38 dealers in the country to earn the coveted Center of Excellence for BMW, which recognizes the top dealers for sales, service, and customer satisfaction.
Please confirm the accuracy of the included equipment by calling us prior to purchase.
We unlike many other dealers provide an in-depth inspection and disclose everything we identify on the vehicle. Many other dealers in town do not provide this level of transparency. During your visit Mr. [redacted] provided you a copy of the vehicles inspection for you to review. We are sorry you did not like mechanical condition described in the inspection but we did not "bait and switch" as you claim.
In terms of pricing, we are a market based pricing store and sell vehicles based on a local comparative set of similar priced vehicles.
If you would like to discuss more please return Ryan's voice mail. I would ask you to retract your untrue statements. We take pride in our level of transparency we provide which sets us apart from others that leave it up to the buyer to discover the vehicles condition on their own.
Best,
Motorwerks BMW Team"
Thank you for the opportunity to address this situation & provide relevant facts. The program that Mrs. [redacted] refers to requires the maintenance contract must be canceled by the vehicle owner before the vehicle is sold, traded in or transferred to another party. A consumer...
cannot cancel a program on a vehicle that they no longer own. This rule protects the manufacturer from an incident where a new owner comes in, the policy shows active & work is done on a contract that is not valid as prior owner is canceling it after the fact. It also protects dealers from taking in a vehicle on trade that shows a valid contract inclusion, which increases the vehicles resale value only to have the contract then cancelled by the prior owner after the fact. This can cause legal issues for the dealer now representing the car as well as issues for the next owner who had proof the contract was in place at the time of purchase. This cancellation requirement is the same process requirement on all of these plans across the nation. It unfortunately is not something in our control to make an exception on even though we do feel for Mrs. [redacted]’s situation. Ms. [redacted], by her own admission, did not cancel the contract prior to her sale of her vehicle. She has made statements as to what that new dealer was telling her to do incorrectly, even though they had never seen the contract, knew none of the parameters on that contract. They had her buy & trade quickly telling her to cancel later which created this situation for her unfortunately. The majority of buyers purchasing a vehicle shop for months, weeks or days prior to finalizing a purchase. It is usually a major decision taking up considerable time wherein consumers deciding to sell or trade will cancel the eligible programs in advance of selling which we gladly process on a regular basis without incident. In a situation where a client makes a faster buying decision, if they have a contract to cancel they would need to ensure that they did so before finalizing the sale or transfer. In this case for example, Mrs. [redacted] could have exercised her right to schedule the new vehicle purchase for a future date of a simple a few days later allowing her time to process the cancelation while she still legally owned the vehicle on that policy. We did in fact still try to submit her request with an explanation on her behalf asking for consideration but when the manufacturer searched the VIN # they found that she had not requested it prior to selling her car, therefore the refund claim was denied. The program is staying with the car per guidelines set forth in that program. We have sincerely apologize for her frustration & have talked at length several times with her on the same.Sincerely,[redacted]CSI LeaderMotorwerks BMW###-###-####
Response received via e-mail to Revdex.com, 7-26-17 -- additional document attached; text of response reads as follows: We appreciate the opportunity to provide the facts in this case & are happy to hear that he was pleased with his experience with our staff. The records we reviewed showed...
that Mr. [redacted] drove a service loaner 320 model that did not have lane avoidance. In fact that is not an available option that can be ordered on the base 320 model. The saved VINS info from the day he was here is inconsistent with his claims unfortunately. Discussions had occurred early on when he was here originally about the upgraded 330 models having the features he desired being hundreds of dollars more per month which was well over his stated budget. The loaner he drove & liked but didn't want to buy used was closely matched in a new vehicle that fit his payment point & color specifications. The vehicle was brought over for him (by his own admission) to look over, we even parked it inside our very well lit climate controlled show floor so that he could familiarize himself with the car before signing out. The window sticker for the vehicle showed exactly the features. At no time while he states he was waiting 4 hours here did any questions or discussions occur that he would prefer to buy a car with the features he states now should have been included. Unfortunately Mr. [redacted] instead of contacting us immediately after delivery if he wanted to exchange for a different upgraded vehicle right away, if he decided he could spend more to move up into a vehicle with the features he wanted instead waited an entire week to fill out a survey & post poorly online which we received the following week. An entire week due to Mr. [redacted] had passed wherein the title work & financing were already processed by then. Had he contacted us immediately we MAY have been able to cancel the deal & work a new deal but his path of actions has him in a situation wherein now he is an owner & trading is the only option. Mr. [redacted] also spoke about a non-highline, non-high performance, non-European brand he said had the features he wanted for the same money & that he regretted not buying it. We believe there maybe some confusion on his part over their features for their payment vs what the vehicle here had at the same payment range. He also stated he really wanted the BMW logo, that is was important to him which is why he went with BMW vs brand not in this class. We believe Mr. [redacted] sadly has buyer’s remorse after-the-fact & that he feels his negative postings will force us to give him the car his budget would not allow for (as he has referenced posting more reviews we believe in an attempt to try to influence what he wants us to do), unfortunately that is not how we do business. We stand on the truth, on the facts & ethics. Please see his purchase survey, which is attached, wherein he clearly states that he is responsible for not verifying the vehicle he purchased had the features he claims he needed. Wherein he also clearly states he does like this BMW he has & wherein he clearly states that he has buyer’s remorse. Even though Mr. [redacted] may not have gone about trying to exchange or upgrade his car in a proper normal or timely manner we have in fact reviewed with him extensively, we have ran numbers on other cars with the features he claims he needs now providing him with pricing consideration where we can to try to ease the situation. The features he desires, as stated to him originally & since then, are several hundred dollars more per month in a payment that he states he cannot afford, as he stated initially to us (as well in notes to your offices & other reviews), does not work out in his available budget. While we do feel for Mr. [redacted]'s wishes to drive a upgraded nicer model with features he wishes he had purchased we do believe we have gone over the options. We have given him fair consideration on all but cannot grant his wish to simply give him a more expensive car at the payment of a base entry level model that he agreed to purchase & completed a purchase on. We are glad to hear that he does like his current BMW & we thank you for the opportunity to provide this information for your consideration.
Response received via e-mail to Revdex.com: Thank you for the opportunity to address the claims of Mrs. [redacted] on her pre-owned 2014 BMW purchase.The sales purchase experience concerns on her vehicle we have already addressed with her prior & resolved to her satisfaction at that time. The...
salesman she refers to has been with us over 10 years, has never received a single complaint from any client & unfortunately some of her comments are taken out of context. As noted though they were promptly addressed at that time & as such is not just to reopen again.For the service side of her concerns please know that we apologized profusely numerous times, by numerous people here to Mrs. [redacted] on the unintentional error of a fine intentioned but new young gentleman in the drive who accidentally tried to show her to the wrong vehicle. It was a simple mistake by a kind young man who was new to our team & yes he made a human error for which we keep apologizing for as Mrs. [redacted] will not accept any apology as it is brought up at each contact point with numerous people here & now to your offices. We do hope we can move forward after another apology herein on a truly simple unintentional error.The wheels clear coat peeling we as well apologized profusely to her for & assured her that it was covered by the warranty, that we would get them taken care of. It is correct that they had not cured correctly the first time & had to be redone which was covered by the warranty and was handled with that provider.The door dings is an unusual situation as they were not on the outside of the doors or exterior of the car they were inside the door jambs, an area that is not normally considered for reconditioning of dings or marks on a pre-owned vehicle but we appreciated her concern as a real estate agent that she would have clients getting into her back seat, that she was concerned about that appearance. We inspected, myself included & agreed with her ultimately on her concerns. We offered to have those fixed at our sole expense, even though a used 2014 vehicle is not intended to be as perfect as a brand new vehicle, even though it was not mentioned until weeks after the sale was completed. An issue such as these should have been mentioned before the sale is finalized but we took both concerns to heart for her & agreed to correct both.While Mrs. [redacted] BMW has been in for these repairs we provided her with a brand new 2017 BMW to drive, years newer than hers, new body style as well to impress not only her but her clients in the meantime with no mileage restrictions so that she could be free to conduct her business in our new car, as well not putting any miles on her car while it was in for the repairs. The initial repair on the rear door jamb interior, they are a pearlized white color, had a small ding missed that could only be seen in certain light, when looking at it from numerous different angles. Straight on when opening the rear door to enter the rear passenger seat it was not visible to any until pointed out & even then difficult to identify. None-the-less we apologized when she noticed this & agreed to send it back to the body shop. Which was completed while she was still in our brand new courtesy BMW.The timeline for these repairs was subject to our outside vendors schedules, not ours, not hers. We communicated their updates as we received them. At one point Mrs. [redacted] perhaps misunderstood a conversation about body shop timing, then wheel repair timing and we addressed this with her for the correct expectation of done time. The conversation was in the presence of several other staff members who stated that the correct timeline was given to her but unfortunately somehow misunderstood. For which we also apologized including contacting her myself while out of the office to make sure she knew we were concerned. This clients vehicle’s repairs were completed in full, were inspected by her upon completion and were to her approval on final repairs. We had washed her BMW a few days prior, while waiting for her return it was exposed to conditions outside on the lot but we were unable to rewash it at that time due to the fresh wheel repair that needed a full 72 hours to cure before going through any wash or having any chemicals which we explained to her at the time of her pick up & as well explained that we did wipe down the exterior carefully by hand since a rewash was not possible.We have paid a significant amount to a body shop to repair & repaint her interior rear door jambs at our cost. This being an area we have not ever before reconditioned on any used vehicle. While performing this free work for her & while having the wheel repair warranty repair completed she was provided with a brand new BMW to drive at no cost, with no mileage limitations. Our door jamb repair was our gift to her & there will be no further compensation consideration at this point due to many factors of this situation at the time as well as since then.Thank you for your consideration on this matter. Sincerely,UrsulaCSI LeaderMotorwerks BMW