Ron's Automotive

Complaint Product/Service: Auto RepairPurchase Date: 6/19/2014Problem Occurred: 6/19/2014Model: Account Number: Order Number: Talked to Company: 6/20/2014Talked to Company (2nd): 2/9/2015Talked to Company (3rd): 11/10/2015Name of Salesperson:Ray E*** Purchase Price: $3566.32Disputed Amount: $Desired Settlement: RefundI am asking that Ron’s refund the total amount paid to them of $so that I may take it to another shop that works with integrity and professionalismI no longer trust the work done at Ron’s Automotive nor do I trust the employees who work thereThis whole situation is directly related to the work they originally did and they need to be held responsible for it11/30/2015To whom it may concern,The Kia Sorrento with 174,miles on it came to us on June 20, not running We found the front crank shaft pulley spinning freely on the crank shaft The bolt would not turn and was not tight against the pulley so the keyway had sheared off While attempting to access the key way the front crank bolt broke because the washer (ref part # [redacted] ) that goes between the bolt and pulley was missing causing the bolt to bottom out in the crank shaft thus damaging the threads We completed the repair and some other maintenance items and the vehicle ran fine however during the test drive the check engine light came on with two codes that were unrelated to the repair (Pthrottle control, and PTransmission control) We cleared the codes and advised the customer that if the light comes back on, diagnosis will be neededOn February 9th, with the mileage at 179,the vehicle returned with the check engine light coming on (Code P0335) and the engine dying intermittently We diagnosed and found the crank shaft position sensor was failing The customer authorized the repairs and after replacing the sensor the engine ran fine.On November 6th, with the mileage at 188,the vehicle returned with the check engine light on (Code Pspark timing control) and a rough idle We inspected the previous work and found the crank sensor is working properly and recommended diagnosis The customer was not happy with this answer and demanded that no matter what was causing the symptom we fix it for free We continued testing at no charge to the customer and found the problem was with timing control circuit in the passenger’s compartment nowhere close to where we had been working and had nothing to do with the crank shaft position sensor The customer declined the diagnosis and the repair.Although the crank sensor is a component that can be responsible for this code, in this instance it is not the cause There are numerous places in the vehicle that can cause this code and the problem is in the passenger compartment not the crank sensor Also attached is a picture of the Kia part number referenced above Clearly there is a washer that is needed with the bolt.The repairs we made to this vehicle are working properly, no parts that we installed have failed so there is nothing to warranty or refund.Respectfully,Ron’s Automotive

Complaint: [redacted] I am rejecting this response because: Although I am looking into the leak in the car, the entire repair issue is not resolvedAnd although Ron's is saying there are many reasons the Spark timing adjust signal code might be happening, this is what I am finding and being told: AutoCodes OBDII Code List PKIAPKIAPKIA - Spark Timing Adjust SignalShare | Add CommentPossible causes- Faulty Crankshaft Position Sensor- Crankshaft Position Sensor harness is open or shorted- Crankshaft Position Sensor circuit poor electrical connection What does this mean?Possible symptoms- Engine Light ON (or Service Engine Soon Warning Light)Read more: http://www.autocodes.com/p1330_kia.html#ixzz3tezGirpF And while we were in the shop, Ray denied it having anything to do with the crank shaft positioning sensor, however is NOW saying that is a cause just not in this caseThis has been the typical response from him, says one thing then changes it later on but continues to makes reasons why they cannot warranty any work doneThey could have told us the issues they found without charging us since we have spent so much money on repairs in their shopBut Ray refused to tell us what was wrong or even provide evidence it wasn't their warranty issue until filing this complaintFurthermore, there is still the issue of the harmonic balancer shaking so bad the car shuts off while at an idleThis is an issue we previously addressed with the mechanic at Ron's Automotive and with Ray and yet nothing has been doneI did not have this issues before they drilled out the expansion boltSo again, since they refuse to warranty the work on that, they should refund the money paid for that repair which comes to $If they will not warranty the repair and fix the shaking then I will need to take it elsewhere and they should refund the money we spent for faulty workSincerely, [redacted]

Complaint: ***I am rejecting this response because:
Although I am looking into the leak in the car, the entire repair issue is not resolvedAnd although Ron's is saying there are many reasons the Spark timing adjust signal code might be happening, this is what I am finding and being told:
AutoCodes OBDII Code List PKIAPKIAPKIA - Spark Timing Adjust SignalShare 0 | Add CommentPossible causes- Faulty Crankshaft Position Sensor- Crankshaft Position Sensor harness is open or shorted- Crankshaft Position Sensor circuit poor electrical connection What does this mean?Possible symptoms- Engine Light ON (or Service Engine Soon Warning Light)Read more: http://www.autocodes.com/p1330_kia.html#ixzz3tezGirpF
And while we were in the shop, Ray denied it having anything to do with the crank shaft positioning sensor, however is NOW saying that is a cause just not in this caseThis has been the typical response from him, says one thing then changes it later on but continues to makes reasons why they cannot warranty any work doneThey could have told us the issues they found without charging us since we have spent so much money on repairs in their shopBut Ray refused to tell us what was wrong or even provide evidence it wasn't their warranty issue until filing this complaintFurthermore, there is still the issue of the harmonic balancer shaking so bad the car shuts off while at an idleThis is an issue we previously addressed with the mechanic at Ron's Automotive and with Ray and yet nothing has been doneI did not have this issues before they drilled out the expansion boltSo again, since they refuse to warranty the work on that, they should refund the money paid for that repair which comes to $If they will not warranty the repair and fix the shaking then I will need to take it elsewhere and they should refund the money we spent for faulty work. Sincerely,*** ***

Complaint: ***I am rejecting this response because:
Although Ron's Automotive is saying their repair work was not faulty nor were any parts that were replaced, I disagreeThe information they are submitting is incorrectOn November 10, when my father and I went into the shop to speak with Ray, we told him that the only reason we brought the car back continuously was because other shops we intended to bring it to, advised us the issues that came up should be warranty and related to the original work Ron's Automotive did to the crank shaft pulley boltRay would not give us diagnostics of the most recent issue unless we paid them more money to do soNow through this complaint we are learning their diagnostics has to do with the passenger sideYet every shop we contacted confirmed that the only possible cause for the spark timing adjust code has to do with a faulty crank shaft positioning sensor or it's connectionThese other shops also confirmed this sensor and the previous sensor replaced (the crank shaft positioning sensor) were due to bad connection issues which would stem from the harmonic balancer shaking after they drilled out the crank shaft pulley boltTherefore we are still requesting that Ron's Automotive refund the full amount to them for repairs since June so that we can have their work redone correctly and honestly elsewhereThe Kia remains on the side of our house, unusableAnd now is leaking coolant near the passenger side compartment, surprisingly enough, where Ron's is stating this new issue is coming from. Sincerely,*** ***

In Response to *** *** Complaint: The vehicle was towed in due to surging when turning a corner, lacking power, shift indicator lights, traction control light onWe diagnosed the concern onlyNo repairs were performed so it would be expected to run the same or become worseDue to
this it would be recommended to tow the vehicle or repair before further driving to protect the customer or others on the roadIf a car is not performing as designed it cannot be expected to accelerate or stop as designedThe customer asked if safe to drive miles? Better to be safe and tow it than try to driveEspecially if it was towed in originally and no repairs have been madeThe options that we provided to the customer were in an attempt to give her alternatives intended to be helpful but not a pressure her to do service with usDue to the concern and design of the hoses it was very possible to have further concerns, one of the hoses cracked provides vacuum to the power brakes, that hose was not leaking yet but was close to failureThe vacuum leak that was present and causing the poor run condition if driven could cause other further concerns, To die in traffic, damage to further components, improper fuel mixtures, transmission operation or other possible damageThis does not mean other damage would have occurred, but if we did not cover this with the customer they would want us to assume this liability alsoWe provided the estimate to be repaired properly with the correct parts and due to the design should be replaced with the proper parts and not modified or splicedThis is not only to make a repair that will last but not fail in a short time and possibly before arriving homeThe parts were not available the same day and the supplier had a short window to get them for the next day or they would not arrive until the following MondayDue to the customers need for the vehicle and being out of town we informed the customer that we would need to confirm the order quickly in order to get them the next dayThis was not in order to force a saleIt was just a factWe want to make clear that we never stated we would not let the customer leave due to liabilityThe liability was related to telling the customer the car was safe to drive or notWith the car not running correctly and part of the concern related to vacuum going to the brake booster we would not feel the correct answer would be to drive the vehicle let alone to Seattle and in trafficIn the end it was the customer's option if she felt it was ok to drive, Tow it home or get a rental car and have us repair it the next dayDue to this we cannot see where we should be liable to pay for tow on a vehicle only diagnosis was performed
***SUPPORTING DOCUMENTS REDACTED BY Revdex.com***

Complaint Background:Product/Service: Auto RepairPurchase Date: 6/19/2014Problem Occurred: 6/19/2014Model: Account Number: Order Number: Talked to Company: 6/20/2014Talked to Company (2nd): 2/9/2015Talked to Company (3rd): 11/10/2015Name of
Salesperson:Ray E*** Purchase Price: $3566.32Disputed Amount: $3566.32 Desired Settlement: RefundI am asking that Ron’s refund the total amount paid to them of $so that I may take it to another shop that works with integrity and professionalismI no longer trust the work done at Ron’s Automotive nor do I trust the employees who work thereThis whole situation is directly related to the work they originally did and they need to be held responsible for it. 11/30/2015To whom it may concern,The Kia Sorrento with 174,miles on it came to us on June 20, not running. We found the front crank shaft pulley spinning freely on the crank shaft. The bolt would not turn and was not tight against the pulley so the keyway had sheared off. While attempting to access the key way the front crank bolt broke because the washer (ref part # ***) that goes between the bolt and pulley was missing causing the bolt to bottom out in the crank shaft thus damaging the threads. We completed the repair and some other maintenance items and the vehicle ran fine however during the test drive the check engine light came on with two codes that were unrelated to the repair (Pthrottle control, and PTransmission control). We cleared the codes and advised the customer that if the light comes back on, diagnosis will be neededOn February 9th, with the mileage at 179,the vehicle returned with the check engine light coming on (Code P0335) and the engine dying intermittently. We diagnosed and found the crank shaft position sensor was failing. The customer authorized the repairs and after replacing the sensor the engine ran fine.On November 6th, with the mileage at 188,the vehicle returned with the check engine light on (Code Pspark timing control) and a rough idle. We inspected the previous work and found the crank sensor is working properly and recommended diagnosis. The customer was not happy with this answer and demanded that no matter what was causing the symptom we fix it for free. We continued testing at no charge to the customer and found the problem was with timing control circuit in the passenger’s compartment nowhere close to where we had been working and had nothing to do with the crank shaft position sensor. The customer declined the diagnosis and the repair.Although the crank sensor is a component that can be responsible for this code, in this instance it is not the cause. There are numerous places in the vehicle that can cause this code and the problem is in the passenger compartment not the crank sensor Also attached is a picture of the Kia part number referenced above. Clearly there is a washer that is needed with the bolt.The repairs we made to this vehicle are working properly, no parts that we installed have failed so there is nothing to warranty or refund.Respectfully,Ron’s Automotive

Can this offer of AAA mediation be sent to the customer in order for the customer to have a clear understanding of what is wrong with their vehicleAlso can this offer be part of the Revdex.com record with the other recorded documents?
12/2/
To whom it may concern,
Mrs*** is calling shops and getting advice which means no one else has actually diagnosed the concern which we haveWe stated before that the crank sensor is one of many areas that can cause this symptom but in this case it is not the crank sensor. When the vehicle left our facility the symptom was not present as it was temporarily corrected during our diagnostic procedure. As stated the problem is in the wiring in the passenger’s area. The water leaking in the front passenger compartment of the vehicle is rain water and not coolant, we suspect the moisture is the root cause of the problem and will likely cause other electrical concerns if it is not addressed. We recommend the customer contact the Leak Doctor to address the rain water leaking into the passenger’s area of the vehicle. As a top rated AAA approved shop the customer can contact them for mediation. AAA will send an advocate for the customer at which time all three parties can be present and we will show the customer where the problem is
This is a description of the code and what turns the light on. There is no mention of the crank sensor in this and is what is causing the light to come on:
PSpark Timing Adjust
General Description
The ECM computes ignition timing in response to the signals from several sensorsThe timing is fixed during the staphaseHowever, when the engine has been started and the vehicle is driven away, the ECM computes the optimum timing based on the engine speed, load and temperatureThe ignition timing is fixed BTDC and DTC Pis set when connecting Ignition control terminal of Data Link Connector and groundIf disconnect Ignition control terminal of Data Link Connector and ground, the DTC is erased automaticallyMake sure to check for short circuit to ground between Ignition control terminal of Data Link Connector and chassis ground when DTC is set
DTC Description
If the ignition control terminal of the Data Link Connector is grounded, the ECM determines that a fault exists and a DTC is stored
Respectfully,
Ron’s Automotive