Sanders Garage of Jacksonville, Inc.

Complaint2004 Ford F150 brought to Sanders. They were to diagnose and repair the truck. This was not done. Some unauthorized workWe had a mobile mechanic come to the house to fix out truck. He repaired the fuel pump but the truck needed more advanced diagnostics so we were forced to take it to a shop. We took it to Sanders Automotive. We explained the problem that the truck was not starting. They told us there was no fuel pressure and it needed a new pump even though we had just put a brand new $400 pump in the truck and still had the box and receipt in the truck for the part. Then they told us that they had to drop the fuel tank and that the plug from the fuel tank to the pump was bad and needed to be replaced. We allowed this. They then stated it needed plugs and we allowed this. They told us that it would be $1400 for all this and it should be running and ready to go. This didn't happen. They told us they could not get the truck running without taking the exhaust off. Off it would run, on it would not run. Then they kept changing what was wrong with it. Finally we were told last night on April 9 after they had the truck for a week and a half that it needed a new engine. We feel this could have been diagnosed earlier vs doing all this work and adding up labor charges which now we are stuck with a truck that is not running, and a big bill, and must tow the truck from their shop to our home to figure out what to do next. We called our mobile mechanic and explained to him what had been done. He verified that the plug from the tank to the fuel pump was good, it was not bad. He saw it and would have corrected it if there was a problem. Our mobile mechanic also said there was never a fuel pressure problem after the new pump was installed, however Sanders Automotive insisted there was a problem. They then informed of us of a bad spark plug which was repaired. Then after all this it came too "you need a new engine". We are not letting them out in a $7000 plus engine as that is outrageous, and we are picking up our truck but now we have to pay them an enormous amount of money for a truck that is not running and has to be towed out of their shop. What can we do about this? It seems very unfair. They also did do some work unauthorized as in removing the valve covers and checking a cam shaft. That part was not permitted. They told us they did it because they figured we would be okay with it. Is there anything you can do to help us? We feel we should be refunded everything outside of the diagnosis, and spark plug repair. We can verify the plug to the fuel pump was fine. They repaired that and our other mechanic stated it was fine and didn't need replacing. Our truck went into the shop at Sanders Automotive last week Thursday and is due out tomorrow Friday, Apr 11th. Thank you[redacted]Desired SettlementWe feel we should be given back monies outside of the initial diagnosis, the oil change ( they stated they needed to do one) and the spark plug. The rest was not necessary and we are leaving with a truck that has to be towed. It's extremely unfair. We could have been told this by any other shop that the engine was bad right off the bad but they kept the truck over a week and then didn't do much for us except charge us alot of money for a truck that still doesn't run. That money could have been put into the main repair we need to do for the truck now. Business Response We attempted to contact the customer. The customer came in later that day and we talked to him and reexplained the testing procedures that they were previously told about, and that they had approved before we proceeded, and explained the results and improvements of each event i.e. (gained fuel pressure after pump repair, replaced gas fouled plugs, disonnected the exhaust pipes, changed very thick and chunky oil), which we then finally got the engine to crank up and run but the timing advance/rd system of the camshafts were not working right when it ran. We then needed to disassmble the engine to the point to test for damage to the camshafts, cam phazers, cylinder head, etc. Customer approved so we did and the head had scoring and excessive wear. At that point seeing the worn metal and probability that the worn off metal could be inside the engine and oil galleries, an engine was recommended. The customer did not want to proceed with repairs. The customer decided to pay for what we had done and pick up the truck.Thank you for your concern.Consumer Response 1. We do not agree with what Sanders Garage has stated. The opening statement of "We attempted to contact the customer" is very misleading. We called Sanders Garage daily for an update and were always told we would receive a callback. Sometimes the call back didn't come till the next day. They never had any concrete information. It was just basically "attempts" to fix the truck verses doing what we initially requested for the truck. We truly trusted them which now we have learned a lesson in the worst way. 2. They guessed at what was wrong with our truck. We had told them right from the start we had just replaced the fuel pump. We told them exactly what our regular mechanic had done. I We still had the box and receipt in our truck. They claimed our fuel pump was bad and there was no fuel pressure. In fact, it was confirmed by the mechanic that put in the fuel pump there was fuel pressure. My [redacted] was with the mechanic when the fuel pump was replaced and saw the fuel pressure for himself. This was also verified by the gentleman that towed our truck to and from Sanders Garage as it did briefly start before he towed it to Sanders Garage. The main reason we took our truck to Sanders Garage is because our regular mechanic doesn't have the special tools to test our type of engine. We needed testing to determine what the problem is. The actual fix would have been done by our mechanic but we needed the special testing. When they told us the Fuel Pump was bad and no fuel pressure. We were very confused. After they replaced the fuel pump, it still didn't work, then they tried a fuel plug, and still that didn't work. It just got worse from that day forward. We didn't understand why they had not done the testing we asked for which wasn't even done until the very end. 3. They disconnected the exhaust system telling us it ran with the exhaust disconnected but not connected. We never told them to touch the exhaust system.4. The spark plugs are an issue. They put in all new spark plugs but we have an issue with the spark plugs we are left to deal with on top of the other things. 5. Sanders Garage submitted a false statement to [redacted] stating that our truck was in storage at their lot and needed to be removed. Our truck was NEVER in storage at Sanders Garage. It was only there while they were working on it. We paid for the truck in full $1309.84 Dollars on April 11, the day that the truck was not to be touched any longer after they told us we needed a new engine, which is not the case. Our truck didn't need a new engine. Per [redacted] Sanders Garage submitted the statement on the 14th of April. We received it on the 17th. We feel this was in retaliation because we filed this complaint with Revdex.com and also the way my [redacted] was treated the day he went to pick up our truck. He was kept waiting along with our tow truck guy for nearly an hour. He was sick that day as he is most days after being injured in combat. I was trying to handle as much of this as I could but he wanted to be the one to pick up the truck and talk with [redacted] about things. That didn't happen because Mr. [redacted] was already upset about the complaint being filed. As a result of all the stalling on the shop's part of not letting him check out promptly, he was late getting back to [redacted] as a result of the shop dragging out the process of us paying our bill and trying to get our truck out of there. Our truck was picked up on the 11th. We have the receipt for it. We have our tow truck driver to attest to this. Our truck was never in storage at their lot. The only time our truck spent at Sanders Garage was while they did their endless fixes to it even keeping it over a weekend. We have since spoken to [redacted] which told us to disregard their letter as we have proven we have had our truck from the day we picked it up and paid for their services. We told Sanders Garage not to touch the truck after they told us it needed a new engine. They told us that if we wanted the truck put back together it would cost more labor time or they could just leave it as is which was the engine taken apart as well as other things being left pulled apart. We didn't realize that a shop can charge extra for what they took apart on a truck or car. We told them to leave it as is only because we didn't want them to do anything further to the truck since so much time had already been wasted on our truck and we wanted our truck out of their shop ASAP, and didn't want to pay even more than we already had to pay them. We also were not going to pay for even more labor time on a bill that was already outrageous for having to tow a truck out of their shop. Had the compression test been done from the start, they would have seen what was wrong with our truck but failed to do so keeping the truck numerous days even over a weekend. This put us in a difficult bind being without it and in the end having to tow it from their shop as they could not figure out what was wrong with it other than tell us it needed a whole new engine. When my husband picked up the truck, [redacted] told him that he and his wife considered giving us a break on the bill until they received the complaint from Revdex.com. I can attest there was never going to be a reduction in the bill because the day prior [redacted] already told me that his mechanic was upset that he was not charging as much labor as he could have in essence trying to make me feel bad like we were already getting a break. 6. We asked Sanders Garage verbally and via email to put all the old parts ( which they replaced with new) in our truck along with the readings from all tests they did including the compression test they claimed they did. They did not provide us with our old parts. I have the emails I sent which they never responded too. They told us they threw them away. They also didn't provide us any read outs of any testing they did. We also sent them an email explaining our confusion ( I have a copy for Revdex.com) and what our mechanic had said. This was before we filed the complaint with Revdex.com but Sanders Garage ignored the email and never responded to it. We know they received it because [redacted] mentioned having the emails but he never responded. We gave them a chance to explain it to us. We used their email system they advocate for contact because they are busy throughout the day. They can respond to emails faster was what we were told. We never received one email response. 7. We were never provided with a written estimate for the repairs they did. We were always told "we have to work the numbers" anytime that we asked about a cost except telling us the price of a fuel plug which they have not provided the old fuel plug, stating they threw that away as well. Resolution: We feel that Sanders Garage should refund the monies we spent at their shop. We were left with a truck that still was not running, and they only determined after several of their fixes that we needed a brand new engine quoting us 7k for a new engine. Our truck didn't need a new engine. It didn't even need a whole rebuilt. Our truck ended up needed a repair that Sanders Garage could have figured out on day one since they had the special testing tools which was the only reason we even brought it to them. The actual repair was something they should have caught and fixed but they didn't even check that part which is something commonly checked on an engine issue. We trusted them and they failed us. We hope they will do the right thing and refund our money. To this day we can't understand how they had the heart to let us leave that shop with our truck being towed and taking $1309.84 from us. My [redacted] is a wounded [redacted] and it has been a most difficult year. It's something we would not wish on anyone. We trusted that Sanders Garage would help us figure the truck issue out. They did not. To have this happen to us ontop of everything has only shown us that people out there truly do not care rather it's about making as much money as possible at any cost. We have totally lost our trust in people ( with the exception of very few) doing the right thing anymore. This has been a very disheartening experience. We never expected this to happen to us, not ever. We are careful about all we do and it was hard to trust a shop we didn't know and people we didn't know with our truck but we did. We wish they would do the right thing and refund the money and let this be a resolved issue. We wish they would just do the right thing. We didn't want to go in town to a shop but we were left with no choice do to the special testing we needed We took a leap of faith that Sanders Garage would not take advantage of us. We feel that is what happened. We would like this resolved. Final Business Response To respond to part 1 of Mrs [redacted] last response.1. I had trouble reaching her right before they came to pick up the truck and was trying to call her to talk to her about details. That is what I was referring to.2. When the vehicle was dropped off, Mrs [redacted] told us that the mobile mechanic they were using had replaced some things and had suggested some other things the [redacted] might also replace and they didn't want to keep putting a lot of things on the truck and the truck still not run. We found the truck did not have fuel pressure at the time we tested it. We recommended the pump and wiring connector be replaced and Mrs [redacted] approved it. The fuel pump came out of the tank and the pump frame had come apart and came out in 2 sections. After the pump replacement we then had fuel pressure. The engine still did not run so more testing needed to be done which was also approved by Mrs [redacted]. We found the spark plugs were gas fouled and would not run on these plugs. That was also approved and done. We got the engine to run for the first time but it was not running well.3. Removing the exhaust pipe was part of checking for a plugged exhaust, it is a simple process to disconnect and reconnect so we did not need to bother Mrs [redacted] for this.4. The spark plugs are replaced, not certain her entry for this part.5. We did not file a false statement as Mrs [redacted] suggests. It was also not in retaliation as Mrs [redacted] suggests. It was not stating that the vehicle had been put in storage, (although the storage lot and our repair lot are the same), it is letting the state know a vehicle is or may be there over 10 days. We filed at simple 10 day notice to the State of North Carolina as we are required to do when a vehicle is left here for more than 10 days per N.C. General Statute: G.S. 20-77(d). The vehicle was left on 4/2/14 and we normally send the notices off 2 or 3 times a week so we sometimes send them a day or two early depending on the day we are processing these forms. It is a required form so if Mrs [redacted] is unhappy with N.C. requirements, I cannot alter that.The reason for the delay on paying and picking up the vehicle is that the check was not made out payable to our garages name. They had part of the name right but it was not exaclty the same. That took time to call the banks and work out to make sure they were going to cash the check. I would suggest they verify the correct name before having a check made out which would have taken care of this issue. I only took a few minutes to recap the details with Mr [redacted] before closing the repair order. The truck was disassembled at the point I asked Mrs [redacted] whether or not she wanted it fully reassembled or not. It seemed that if it needed major repair, it would have to be disassembled again which would be unnecessary expense. She said not to reassemble so we did not. It was also my understanding that the truck had not been running for a while before it got to our shop.As much as I understand Mrs [redacted] concern, I also have a person that has been asked to perform testing and labor to figure out the problems with this truck that was pretty clear the mobile mechanic they had was not able to figure out. He spent many hours testing and disassembling and reassembling to get it to the point it would run, only to find that there were other problems as well. We get many vehicles that need just one repair to get it running again, but on others, sometimes there are multiple problems. This is one of those vehicles. As we did not charge for all the time that was taken to get this truck to the point it would run, I feel it was a fair price for what was done. I also understood Mrs [redacted] was going to return the other part we removed to get reimbursed from the last mechanic that worked on it. I dont feel it is fair to have a mechanic work on something and get it to the point we have it running and have an answer on the rest of the problems and then say you dont want to pay for it. The technician worked hard and as much as he may or may not like working here, if he cant be paid and feed his family, he wont stay.6. You have to let us know up front if you want the old parts. The first part they said they needed back and they got it back. The rest were not asked for until after they were thrown away.The hand tools dont provide printouts and neither does my scanner. We tested it and got the information we needed to get it to run. I called and talked to Mrs [redacted] or she called me back about each of her questions on the phone. 7. I told Mrs [redacted] what each of the possible estimates would be when we talked and as we learned new information, I let her know what we found at that time.The vehicle was checked and some concerns were repaired. Repaired enough to get it running. They did not want to proceed with the recommended repairs. They paid for the truck and picked it up. As far as we are concerned, the matter is closed.Thank You for your concern.More info received from the consumer 2014-05-14Please keep complaint open. We are preparing a response. We have since consulted with some professionals which have provided us with information needed. The truck has been inspected by several professional mechanics for verification of what was done to our truck and not done with statements provided. Please allow 48 hours for us to prepare the response to this and submit documents. Repair has been completed and the truck is running perfect. Response will be forthcoming.