Shellhorn & Hill, Inc.

With thirty eight years of first-hand experience in the HVAC industry I could not hear any single price for a part or product that a competitor charges and say if it is priced fairly or not without knowing how they arrived at that priceThere are as many ways to price out a service repair as there
are contractors in the businessOur company's way is to lay in as much cost into a part price as we can to keep our invoicing simpleIn the case of our Freon pricing,which is actually at the low end of industry standards, we build in labor, brazing materials, nitrogen, environmentalfees, equipment expense, etc.Mr*** feels he was grossly overcharged for Freon and on a quick glance to a lay person it may appear that waySomething that cost $is sold for $68, that does seem excessiveWe did not however charge them for any of the incidentals listed in the previous paragraph yet they were still all expenses to our companyWe have a total of sixteen man hours in the *** repairs but have only charged for seven hoursOur labor rate is $per hour and if one does the math the *** are ahead of the game with our pricing structure.The charges were all correct and fair, we cannot agree to the resolution put forward by the ***

Revdex.com:
I have reviewed the response made by the business in reference to complaint ID ***, and have determined that this does not resolve my complaint. For your reference, details of the offer I reviewed appear below
Their response was incorrect about the job they were to performThe relocation of the three valves behind the drywall was a critical part of the furnace install This was made clear to all companies who quoted me a price to do the work I explained to them before they prepared the quote that I wanted those valves (which purge air out of the system) moved to the heater room where they could easily be fixed if needed in the future I explained to them that leaks had always been a worry to me and that their movement would have to be part of the job The salesperson even told me he had written that in the contract when I asked him about it to be sure He either did not pass this information on to the work crew, or they just decided not to do it because they did not have the materials with them Either way, a significant part of the job was not done, so I requested either a 10% discount off the cost of the install or a lifetime warranty on the valves so I would not have to worry about paying to have them fixed in the future if they begin to leak
I think at the very least, the company could give me a lifetime warranty on the three valves they forgot to move in case they begin to leak behind the drywall in the future SInce in their own words the likelihood of a leak is small, they should be willing to warranty that situation that they caused by not moving them in the first place If they can not lifetime warranty them in writing, I will not consider using them again in the future for furnace work or oil deliveries, and I will not recommend them to others

The response from *** *** shows the problem that we have very clearlyOnce again the valves behind the wall have been called purge valves These are not the purge valves and that is what caused the problem right out of the gateAs stated previously the first complaint that I received from *** *** used the term purge valves as well and I can certainly understand why nobody would want them behind a wallOur salesman was very clear that the Hunter's emphasized they wanted the purge valves in the boiler roomOur technicians that installed the boiler were very clear that they were give n instructions the morning of the installation that the purge valves were to be in the boiler roomThat is our preference as well so it did not seem a strange request to anybody and we put purge valves in the boiler room
A t this point it seems the true mission was to eliminate the valves behind the wallWe certainly could have done that when the boiler was installed but we would not have recommended the actionThere is an old saying "if it isn't broke, don't fix it"When you start work like that it is very easy to put strain on other joints in the copper piping that could cause a fitting to start leaking up in a wall some place and that becomes a much more costly repairIf leaks are what really concerns the *** leaving things be is the safest action
The price we quoted and signed an agreement to does not included any charges to remove valves nor is there any language that says valves w ill be removedThe remedy of a 10% on the installation cost far exceeds what we would have charged to install the valves had we eve n quoted on that work so I cannot agree to thatA lifetime warranty o n the va lves, well there a re a host of reason that makes so I cannot agree to thatWe will offer to alternate remedies if e it her works for the ***For a flat fee of $we will co me out and remove t he valves but w ill not war rant coverage for a ny leak that occ urs from that wo rk outside of the immediate area of the valvesA second option would be to extend the year labor warranty on the new boiler to five years

Revdex.com:
I have reviewed the response made by the business in reference to complaint ID ***, and have determined that this does not resolve my complaint. For your reference, details of the offer I reviewed appear below
I have detailed my reasons/rationale for NOT accepting the response message from Shellhorn & Hill to complaint ID *** in a formal letter addressed to *** *** at The Revdex.comMy letter is included as an attachment to this message.
Regards,

I don’t usually write these type of reviews but I couldn’t find any other way to direct my frustration toward Shellhorn & Hill. Few weeks back during the coldest time, my property's oil tank for heat/furnace decided to give up and start leaking oil. Tenant out of panic called 911 and emergency services came out to help. They pumped out all the oil into drums and cleaned the oil spill. Next morning Sunday called some HVAC company and found out only those who sell oil will normally install tanks as well. So called Shellhorn and found they do install oil tanks. Proceeded to scheduled appointment earliest possible which was next business day Monday. Meanwhile on Sunday, went to the property (3hrs away) to do some cleanup, check situation and provide portable heaters to keep house warm for time being.
The 275gal Oil tank is located in basement 1ft away to the exit door, and door leads to parking spot in a back alley. There is absolutely no up or down steps, easy in and out. Monday technician showed and quote came out $2500. Called some other company , quote came out about hundred lower based on verbal description without actually coming out. So proceeded with Shellhorn since its seemed more reputable and because we were desperate, signed contract payed deposit %50 deposit. Next day Tuesday, they came out and did their job. No complain on customer service, no complain on installation, timeline was good everything good happy.
Later found out from some other professionals while sharing experience that job could have been done for %50 less. Further looking into this issue found facts that job indeed could have been done for less. Oil was already out of the tank, removal and install wasn’t supposed to cost $2k not to mention tanks and materials top out at $500-700. The contract was vague with just the total cost and no description on work done, material whatsoever.
I know they are probably happy with a nice easy job done ripping off custom. And of course me as the customer cant do anything other that write this post. I the unfair paid and learned a hard lesson. All I want is to share this experience with those who might run into same situation and release some of my frustration. FYI, In case you delete this post I am posting this in several consumer review sites so that it comes up when your company name is searched. Feel free to contact me if you decide to address this issue differently.

Automatic oil delivery is not an exact science but it is a mathematical formula that is correct far more often than not. Anytime we receive a complaint from a customer that they do not believe they received an oil delivery we revert back to the mathematics of it to see if there is any chance the...

customer is correct. If there is even the remotest possibility that they did not receive the oil we reverse the charge without any further question. The mathematics is based on a customer's individual usage pattern as it relates to existing outdoor temperatures. What we cannot factor in would be a situation where a customer changes their thermostat settings in the house due to illness or perhaps a baby or guest staying over. What we also cannot factor in is the effect of sunny day's verses overcast days by individual home, some homes receive direct light and others are shaded. Wind is also something we cannot factor in, some homes are air tight and some are not. One or a multiple of these factors is why Ms [redacted] ran out of oil on February 27th 2015 it is not because she did not receive the December 12, 2014 oil delivery.Ms [redacted] registered a protest with her credit card company in March of 2015 concerning the charge for the oil and they did reverse the payment out of our account. We responded to the complaint with the credit card company and sent the mathematical calculations to them demonstrating that had Ms [redacted] not received the December delivery that she would have run out of oil based on the numbers December 31, 2014. Ms [redacted] however did not run out of oil until February 27, 2015, nearly two months later and that defied any reasonable probability that she did not receive the December oil. The credit card companies tend to lean very strongly in their customers favor, as they should, but in this case they did reverse their initial action and put the funds back into our account.We have also shared the calculations with Ms [redacted] to no avail. We looked into her allegation that a different driver made the delivery and must have put it into the wrong home. The driver that made the December 2014 delivery was questioned and he described the house and the fill location exactly correct and has been to the home in the past. We cannot say with certainty that perhaps a different driver had been sent the day prior and was not sure of the tank location. This could explain a call to her home as she suggests stating that the driver could not find the fill location. Our drivers are responsible for the cost of any delivery made to the wrong location and with a customer with a large tank such as Ms [redacted] they are extremely careful. They will not make a delivery before chancing putting it in the wrong houseThe charges that are still showing on Ms [redacted]'s account are the result of the credit card payment reversal. She received a prompt pay discount for the December delivery that was negated when she protested the payment.  We would be willing to waive those fees ($124.25 presently) if Ms [redacted] wants to consider this issue closed.Please let us know if there is any additional information or help we can offer.

[redacted]
The complaint letter was just received in our office yesterday though I see it is dated February 4th from your office.
The dialogue between our salesman and the customer at the time of bidding the boiler replacement did involve a concern on the customer's...

behalf that the valves needed to purge the system not be located behind the drywall of the finished basement and they are not. Our company installed the boiler in accordance with all county, state, and federal mechanical codes and has exceeded the minimum codes in most aspects to provide a system that is also easily serviceable. Subsequent dialogue between me and a woman calling from the household concerned over valves on the unit once again were centered on purge valves being near the boiler and not behind the drywall. I investigated her concern and found that the purge valves were located in the proper locations for zones near the boiler. That information was relayed back to the customer. Only then did the concern then become a desire that the valves behind the wall be moved. Our bid price did not include moving these valves and would have been comparable to paying a plumber to do it sometime down the road if the valves ever did leak but a leak developing on valves that have no need to be opened or closed in highly unlikely. If they asked us for our opinion we would have recommended just leaving the valves be and not going to the expense unless a problem develops.
The customer may very well have desired the valves to be relocated and just picked the wrong terminology to express that desire. It would seem that if that was a great concern to them that they would have made sure it was spelled out on the proposal but it is not. They hired us to install the boiler and to put it in correctly and we did that.
If there are any additional questions or concerns  please feel free to send them to us. Sincerely,

We have already seen all of the enclosures that were included in the January 28th letter from the Revdex.com. We still are not in agreement with Mr. [redacted] and his reasoning unfortunately. He has both verbally and with his signatures agreed to the charges that have been placed on his account. In fact he has agreed to even more charges than he was given. Additionally we did offer to completely cover any expense for refrigerant next cooling system if the repair we made is not satisfactory.Please not:May 22, 2013: Customer agrees via a telephone call that is ok for our technic ian to come check his unit but declines to allow the technician to do so on arrival. This was at a cost to our company but no charge was placed on the customer's account.May 28, 2013: Our technician was in the customer's home for six hours but the customer was only charged for four and one half hours.May 21, 2014: Customer signed for a $120 service charge but no charge was placed on the customer's account.June 2, 2014: Technician was in customer's home for six and one quarter hours but the customer was only charged for four hours. In addition to that the call was discounted an additional $175 when he was charged to the customer's account.We have been very fair in dealing with the [redacted].

Review: Shellhorn and Hill GROSSLY overcharged me $680 for 10 lbs. of R-410A refrigerant that was put into my home's air-conditioning system on May 28, 2013 - - the entire low refrigerant level service call bill was $1,350 [ $680 for 10 lbs. of refrigerant + $130 for two service valves and $540 labor ] and I PAID the entire $1,350 service call bill IN FULL.

Approximately twelve (12) months later on June 2, 2014 Shellhorn and Hill came back out to my home for a similar low refrigerant level service call and again had to put 10 lbs. of R-410A refrigerant into my home's air-conditioning system. The total June 2nd service call bill was $1,125 [ $680 for 10 lbs. of refrigerant + $20 for a new piston valve + $425 labor ] On July 28th, I paid $620 of the $1,125 June 2nd service call bill - - which covered all of the labor of $425 + parts of $20 + $175 for the 10 lbs of R-410A refrigerant.

Please note, that I have PAID in Full for all the labor and parts costs to date AND also $680 + $175 = $855 for 20 lbs. of R-410A refrigerant. Also note that a 25 lb bottle of VIRGIN R-410A refrigerant can readily be purchased for only $125. Despite making ~ $730+ PROFIT on the $125 worth of R-410A refrigerant alone - - Shellhorn & Hill continued to send me PAST DUE notices including LATE FEES. I attempted to resolve my issue with being GROSSLY OVERCHARGED for 20 lbs. of refrigerant with the management of Shellhorn & Hill without any productive dialogue. Late in the year, Shellhorn & Hill closed my account and "sold it" to a collection agency - - who indicated my credit rating could be adversely affected if I don't pay them for the unpaid balance of my old Shellhorn & Hill account.Desired Settlement: (1) Consider my account PAID in FULL (2) Contact the Collection Agency and advise them that my closed Shellhorn & Hill account NO longer has an outstanding unpaid balance of any amount.

Business

Response:

With thirty eight years of first-hand experience in the HVAC industry I could not hear any single price for a part or product that a competitor charges and say if it is priced fairly or not without knowing how they arrived at that price. There are as many ways to price out a service repair as there are contractors in the business. Our company's way is to lay in as much cost into a part price as we can to keep our invoicing simple. In the case of our Freon pricing,which is actually at the low end of industry standards, we build in labor, brazing materials, nitrogen, environmentalfees, equipment expense, etc.Mr. [redacted] feels he was grossly overcharged for Freon and on a quick glance to a lay person it may appear that way. Something that cost $5 is sold for $68, that does seem excessive. We did not however charge them for any of the incidentals listed in the previous paragraph yet they were still all expenses to our company. We have a total of sixteen man hours in the [redacted] repairs but have only charged for seven hours. Our labor rate is $120 per hour and if one does the math the [redacted] are ahead of the game with our pricing structure.The charges were all correct and fair, we cannot agree to the resolution put forward by the [redacted]

Consumer

Response:

I have reviewed the response made by the business in reference to complaint ID [redacted], and have determined that this does not resolve my complaint. For your reference, details of the offer I reviewed appear below.

I have detailed my reasons/rationale for NOT accepting the response message from Shellhorn & Hill to complaint ID [redacted] in a formal letter addressed to [redacted] at The Revdex.com. My letter is included as an attachment to this message.

Regards,

Business

Response:

We have already seen all of the enclosures that were included in the January 28th letter from the Revdex.com. We still are not in agreement with Mr. [redacted] and his reasoning unfortunately. He has both verbally and with his signatures agreed to the charges that have been placed on his account. In fact he has agreed to even more charges than he was given. Additionally we did offer to completely cover any expense for refrigerant next cooling system if the repair we made is not satisfactory.Please not:May 22, 2013: Customer agrees via a telephone call that is ok for our technic ian to come check his unit but declines to allow the technician to do so on arrival. This was at a cost to our company but no charge was placed on the customer's account.May 28, 2013: Our technician was in the customer's home for six hours but the customer was only charged for four and one half hours.May 21, 2014: Customer signed for a $120 service charge but no charge was placed on the customer's account.June 2, 2014: Technician was in customer's home for six and one quarter hours but the customer was only charged for four hours. In addition to that the call was discounted an additional $175 when he was charged to the customer's account.We have been very fair in dealing with the [redacted].

Review: Shellhorn and Hill installed a new Oil Burning Furnace (hot water baseboard) in November, 2013. As part of the quoted furnace installation job, they were supposed to replace and move three valve shutoffs from where they were located in a corner of the basement to the heater room near the furnace. They replaced the valves but did not move them into the heater room when they replaced the furnace. I have contacted them a dozen times over the last several months. I told them I would either settle for a discount on the job performed or a lifetime warranty on the three valves in case they start to leak in the future. The most important part of purchasing a new furnace for me was that I would get those valves moved out from the corner behind a panel in the drywall and into the heater room where they could be fixed easily if they began to leak in the future. I spelled that out to each company that came to give me a quote so that I was comparing apples to apples in obtaining quotes for the job. They initially said that they were looking into to giving me a warranty, but they do not answer or return my calls anymore.

I would be satisfied with a lifetime warranty on just those 3 valves so that if they leak in the future, I will not have the expense of a plumber trying to move or fix them in an awkward location. Thanks. [redacted]Desired Settlement: I would be satisfied with either a lifetime warranty on the 3 valves only or a 10% discount off the entire job ($620).

Business

Response:

[redacted]

The complaint letter was just received in our office yesterday though I see it is dated February 4th from your office.

The dialogue between our salesman and the customer at the time of bidding the boiler replacement did involve a concern on the customer's behalf that the valves needed to purge the system not be located behind the drywall of the finished basement and they are not. Our company installed the boiler in accordance with all county, state, and federal mechanical codes and has exceeded the minimum codes in most aspects to provide a system that is also easily serviceable. Subsequent dialogue between me and a woman calling from the household concerned over valves on the unit once again were centered on purge valves being near the boiler and not behind the drywall. I investigated her concern and found that the purge valves were located in the proper locations for zones near the boiler. That information was relayed back to the customer. Only then did the concern then become a desire that the valves behind the wall be moved. Our bid price did not include moving these valves and would have been comparable to paying a plumber to do it sometime down the road if the valves ever did leak but a leak developing on valves that have no need to be opened or closed in highly unlikely. If they asked us for our opinion we would have recommended just leaving the valves be and not going to the expense unless a problem develops.

The customer may very well have desired the valves to be relocated and just picked the wrong terminology to express that desire. It would seem that if that was a great concern to them that they would have made sure it was spelled out on the proposal but it is not. They hired us to install the boiler and to put it in correctly and we did that.

If there are any additional questions or concerns please feel free to send them to us. Sincerely,

Consumer

Response:

Review: I was billed automatically for an oil delivery I did not receive. 5 weeks after they said they say they delivered 809 gallons of oil, my tank went dry, causing damage to my heater. [redacted] and sons discovered I had not oil, and that I didn't get the delivery I paid over $2,000. for, automatically billed to my credit card. No delivery ticket was left at my house. I have the delivery ticket for the delivery in Feb. 2025, and the one on the emergency delivery 5 weeks after [redacted]s discovered I had no oil. They obviously delivered the oil to another house, because they called and said the driver could not find my oil tanks. Or they deoivered it to no-one and billed me.Desired Settlement: Refund my money

Business

Response:

Automatic oil delivery is not an exact science but it is a mathematical formula that is correct far more often than not. Anytime we receive a complaint from a customer that they do not believe they received an oil delivery we revert back to the mathematics of it to see if there is any chance the customer is correct. If there is even the remotest possibility that they did not receive the oil we reverse the charge without any further question. The mathematics is based on a customer's individual usage pattern as it relates to existing outdoor temperatures. What we cannot factor in would be a situation where a customer changes their thermostat settings in the house due to illness or perhaps a baby or guest staying over. What we also cannot factor in is the effect of sunny day's verses overcast days by individual home, some homes receive direct light and others are shaded. Wind is also something we cannot factor in, some homes are air tight and some are not. One or a multiple of these factors is why Ms [redacted] ran out of oil on February 27th 2015 it is not because she did not receive the December 12, 2014 oil delivery.Ms [redacted] registered a protest with her credit card company in March of 2015 concerning the charge for the oil and they did reverse the payment out of our account. We responded to the complaint with the credit card company and sent the mathematical calculations to them demonstrating that had Ms [redacted] not received the December delivery that she would have run out of oil based on the numbers December 31, 2014. Ms [redacted] however did not run out of oil until February 27, 2015, nearly two months later and that defied any reasonable probability that she did not receive the December oil. The credit card companies tend to lean very strongly in their customers favor, as they should, but in this case they did reverse their initial action and put the funds back into our account.We have also shared the calculations with Ms [redacted] to no avail. We looked into her allegation that a different driver made the delivery and must have put it into the wrong home. The driver that made the December 2014 delivery was questioned and he described the house and the fill location exactly correct and has been to the home in the past. We cannot say with certainty that perhaps a different driver had been sent the day prior and was not sure of the tank location. This could explain a call to her home as she suggests stating that the driver could not find the fill location. Our drivers are responsible for the cost of any delivery made to the wrong location and with a customer with a large tank such as Ms [redacted] they are extremely careful. They will not make a delivery before chancing putting it in the wrong houseThe charges that are still showing on Ms [redacted]'s account are the result of the credit card payment reversal. She received a prompt pay discount for the December delivery that was negated when she protested the payment. We would be willing to waive those fees ($124.25 presently) if Ms [redacted] wants to consider this issue closed.Please let us know if there is any additional information or help we can offer.