Side By Side Home Improvement

Initial Business Response /* (1000, 5, 2017/09/19) */
Contact Name and Title: Donny Yeoman - Owner
Contact Phone: XXX-XXX-XXXX
Contact Email: ***@yeomanservicecenter.com
Quick Summary:
This case should be fairly straight forward in my opinionI do not feel we were given all of the
information from the customer on the initial write up that fully disclosed the customer's symptoms, which hindsight proves there were two concernsEven after she authorized the repairs recommend and picking up the vehicle, and returning with her son who was VERY defensive and upset, I immediately offered 100% of their money back and they declinedI was able to deescalate the situation and convince them to give us a second look, we are human, and if we misdiagnosed their car, I would make it right with themThey agreed to let me take another lookI have tried very hard to work with this family to resolve this issue that to me feels to be way bigger than what it needs to be offering them at least two more options of money back (which I will share below) , and they still do not want to cooperate
Full story:
On September 5, 2017, Ms*** dropped her car offThe initial write up as you can see in the "Job Ticket" enclosed, that she had been to two other repair shops, one thinking she had plugged
catalytic converters, and the other exhaust shop checked the catalytic converters and felt they were not the issue and referred her to us for a diagnostic test to verifyShe verbally informed us the car lacked power and would not go over MPH, which goes with a theory of a plugged catalytic converterAnother key note here in hindsight is one of the two shops had cleared the codes
Our diagnostics consisted of a test drive and computer scan for codesThis duplicated the car was severely under powered , would not accelerate over MPH, and a fault code Pfor low oxygen sensor voltageThis was the ONLY code stored at this time (remember, another shop had cleared the codes) The data on the test drive also showed that the system was lacking fuel to the engine and in fact the oxygen sensor was reading low, which is accurate to read low if there is a lack of fuel, therefore setting a "false" code PFurther analysis proved that a key fuel delivery sensor, MAP sensor voltage was stuck at volts all the timeThis voltage should read volt at idle and increase to volts as you accelerate, and this was not occurringThe technician inspected and found the MAP sensor was actually broken and in two pieces, which I gave and showed this part to Ms***
After her approval, we replaced the partThe technician verified the repair of lack of power and proved the car would accelerate with ease past MPH to highway speeds, and that the MAP sensor voltage was reading correctly, confirming the repair
Ms*** picked up her car and drove away and came back a short time laterI greeted her immediately, and the man driving the car said it was still doing the same thing and that it was the converterI personally took it for a test drive right awayThe car drove flawlessly for me and I was able to get up to MPH with ease and no symptomsI returned to the shop and asked Ms*** if we
could go for a ride, as I could not duplicate her concernShe returned with a different man, her son, who became very defensive with me and argumentative about her bill and why it was not fixedI could sense a problem right away, and took his criticism personally as I felt her car was better than what it was when she drove it inTold him if he did not want to work with me, cooperate, and give me a chance to make it right, then I would refund 100% of her money and they could walk awayThey declined the refund and we went for a rideThis time Ms*** droveShe was able to accelerate perfectly with no issuesShe even told her son in the back seat that it was not doing itI asked, "Is the problem intermittent?" She said that it can be at times(We did not know of an intermittent problem, but a consistent problem of lack of power)Finally, on the way back to the shop, the car started to sputter about MPH and the check engine light was on and flashing! Another key detail that was never disclosed to us on the initial write up of a flashing check engine light — a key detail to aid in fixing her carA flashing check engine light can ONLY indicate and cylinder misfiresWe never had this symptom occur for us nor were there any codes stored indicating cylinder misfires on the initial diagnostics
They agreed to let me look at it again at no diagnostic charge even though this would exceed our typical hour time slot that we have already met with the first diagnosisWe scanned for codes again, and this time found codes Pand Pfor cylinder misfires on #and #Note, the oxygen sensor code was not there anymore, but new codes for misfiring cylinders wereI know these codes would have been stored for us in history, IF one of the previous shops had not cleared this data, making our job harderIt also makes sense, that if the problem is intermittent, that she admitted to, that the codes may not be there if they were just recently cleared by the other shop, and the misfire events never took place
The fix for the symptom of a flashing check engine light was a faulty ignition control moduleThis module controls all coils and was not controlling the one coil that provides power to the spark plugs on cylinders and I was told to call her son, Adrian, on the repairs since she would be at workI informed him what part was bad, I would not charge any labor to install it, but just charge them for the part itself of $with taxHe said she would be OK with that but would like to talk to herI even extended the gesture to make them comfortable and confident that the care was fixed, to take the car for the weekend, try it, and come in and pay for it on Monday if they were OK with it, or if not, I would remove the new ignition module we installed, and replace it with her bad oneHe seemed pleased with that option and shook my hand when he came for the car after his father had picked it up
Ms*** did not come in on Monday nor did we hear from herI called her on Tuesday and she was defensive and did not want to pay for the ignition moduleI asked her if her car was better and she basically said yes but the check engine light was on, but not flashing and driving okI offered to scan the computer for free to see the cause for the light being on steady and she declinedThere are other causes for this light to come on, but she would not allow me to verifySo, as of right now, we do not knowBut she agreed her car was working better and ironically must be if she is still driving itI tried to explain to her that we were only given about 75% of the needed information to fix her car and we in hindsight had to fix her car with "one hand tied behind or backs" for the fact that we did not know of a flashing check engine light that was intermittent and another shop clearing the codesWe did not stand a fair chance to fix this car on the first visit
I do feel 50% of her problem was resolved on the first visit, fixing the concerns/symptoms from the initial write upIt was not until the customer returned, was there further information given from the customer and seen with test drive with the customer that the second symptom was brought to our attention and then addressed, diagnosed, and fixed on the second attemptNot only was not all information given to us by the customer but the car had been to two other shops prior to coming to Yeoman'sWhile at one of those shops, they cleared crucial data that would have been helpful to us, and possibly aided in us seeing a second problem or her second symptom
Per our last phone conversation — I offered her $backThis would refund her for the new MAP sensor and labor — only charging her $or our standard hour diagnostic fee, and I would reinstall her broken MAP sensor and her faulty module (removing my new parts), and she declinedShe was contacting the Revdex.com and an attorneyI thought that was a solution since she had been shopping for part prices online and she could have someone else install the parts that I diagnosedThat option was not adequate for herI was grateful that she was utilizing the Revdex.com for this to get an unbiased opinion, as I could also use the help to explain to her that I did the best I could given the circumstances we had to deal with
Closing:
I have bent over backwards for this family with no resolves whatsoever, with several options to make them happyThe car has not been maintained, as I was afraid to inspect the spark plugs as part of diagnostics but didn't due to the condition of the wires being brittle and not wanting to create another expense issue for themWe looked after them with our best interest and even installed a part for them in good faith that they would follow through on what her son and I agreed on her behalfI was trying build a customer relation by showing trust in them as they trusted me to fix their carI trusted them to come back and pay the bill or let me remove my parts per our agreementNone of which happenedTo me it is clear there were two problems present and the customer only is willing to pay for one and she has told me her car is better than beforeNot to mention the total repairs for both symptoms is a lot less money than if the catalytic converters were replaced and didn't need to be by one of the other shopsWe have been in business for years in the auto industryWe are not one of the bad apples that are out there as we would not have reached years of business by misleading our customersI find it would be hard for anyone to do their job if there were only give 75% of the information on how to do itThat is the same case here and why it took two visits to fix two problems/symptomsWe specialize in diagnostics and this has been our forte the past years and other shops have always sent work to us just because we have equipment and trained technicians that they do not have
Initial Consumer Rebuttal /* (3000, 7, 2017/09/28) */
(The consumer indicated he/she DID NOT accept the response from the business.)
When I went to yeoman services center and asked about a diagnostic test I explain to the man that I had took my car to two other places the first one told me it was the catalytic converter, the second person was going to fix the catalytic converter but he said that was not the problem and he suggested that I get a diagnostic test and said yeomanI also let him know that the codes had been cleared, and he told me that was not a problemI am the one who said the car would not go over mph but that was when it would dye down, I feel like he just went on what I said instead of doing a diagnostic test, because when I got my car back I had the same problembut when he fixed it the second time, it was fixed correctlyI feel like I shouldn't have to pay for what I have already paid forThe Yeoman representative stated in his own words that he had made the mistakeI ask for a diagnostic test so that we would not have any mishapsNo one work on my car but Yeoman Services center for that problem
Final Business Response /* (4000, 9, 2017/09/29) */
First, I did not admit to making a mistakeI told her that IF we MADE a mistake and we are human, I would correct the problem, but we did not make a mistake after it was all send and doneWe made the best diagnostic decision given the information from the customer and the computer data on the initial attemptOn the initial attempt, there was no evidence in the trouble codes for the flashing check engine light (Codes P0300, Pthrough Pwere not stored and would have to be stored)These are the only codes that can cause a flashing check engine lightNot until the second attempt did we have a P& Pstored in current fault data from the computerThere is no way we could have known this given the information initiallyIt is very clear; she had two problems and paid for only one diagnostic test which is fairI handed her a broken part, clearly showing her one of the two problemsThe broken part (MAP sensor) will not cause a flashing light but will affect the fuel system, which the initial diagnostic test confirmed the lack of power concern was due to a fuel delivery issue caused by a MAP sensor voltage not changingThe second problem had nothing to do with the fuel system but affected the ignition system (spark plugs, wires, coils, etc.) and this in fact will cause a flashing check engine lightThe car would only run erratically on out of cylinders when this happenedA car can run over MPH even though it is running on cylinders, again, another fact backing up we have two problems and the customer is only willing to pay for one
It is unfortunate situationI have tried to accommodate and work with this familyThey are unwilling to cooperate and be understandingThe son agreed for me to install the second part for the flashing check engine light and agreed they would come back after trying for the weekend and let me knowSo the repair was authorized by the customerThey did not comply with what we agreed to doAnother way I tried to work with the customerI gave them a choice, to come back Monday and pay for the part, or I would remove the new part and reinstall their old part if that did not fix their second problemI feel there is a money issue as the customer called stating she could buy these parts for less (but that's DIY prices, not professional installation prices with warranty)
Our industry gets a bad reputation because of things like thisThese are uncontrollable circumstances I cannot preventWe cannot do our job to the fullest if we do not have ALL the information to work withIn any industry, nobody could perform their job correctly if they are only given 75% of the information on how to do somethingFor example, doctors are allowed to make mistakes over and over and still charge the patient for it for more tests to run etcWe however as an automotive industry do not charge customers if and when we make a mistakeIn this case, no mistakes were made, just a lack of information to properly do our jobIt is very evident what has happened and the facts are the facts
1) Lack of information/symptoms given on initial write up - lack of power & told needs converters (customers fault - did not mention flashing check engine light)
2) Codes cleared before coming to Yeoman's clearing crucial information to tell us there could be two problems (not Yeoman's fault)
3) Customer admitted on test drive problem of flashing light was not present but did finally show up (verifies intermittent problem was in need there but never duplicated by Yeoman's therefore why it was not found on initial diagnostic test) (not Yeoman's fault)
4) Broken/failed MAP sensor (customers responsibility for first problem - lack of power)
5) Flashing check engine light (Yeoman's knew nothing about until second attempt)
6) Customer should at least pay for ignition module installed to fix flashing check engine light
7) They are driving around on a free part they agreed to pay for or return (they have not complied to what we agreed on per her son's authorization - he was given permission to authorized repairs
My offer at this point would still be my original offer from before; for the customer to pay for just the ignition module that we installedI will not charge labor to install it (what we agreed on)I also will not charge more diagnostic feesI feel this is more than fair compromise and working with the customer to resolve this issueThis makes it win-win for both of usHer car gets repaired and I get paid for my partThe son and I agreed upon this on his mother's behalf
She then would have paid for the following between both visits:
Diagnostic test (paid already)
Broken MAP sensor (fixed the lack of power - not going over MPH fuel issue) (paid already)
Labor for MAP senor installation (paid already)
Taxes and fees (paid already)
Ignition module (fixed the flashing check engine light) (only thing to pay for)
Please look at the factsThey do speak for themselvesOn multiple times I tried to work with them and did everything I could do to make the consumer happy and I tried very hard to appease the customer right or wrongI stand behind the facts and our diagnosisOur reputation as being a leader in diagnostics and our local industry, and a shop that other shops take their cars to, speaks for itselfWe did not make any mistakes or miss anything on the initial attemptIn good faith I installed a part for them to show my will to take care of them, stand behind my company name, and eliminate any uncertainty that they may haveWe should not be penalized for a car having two problems
Consider one last thingIf the module would have been found on the initial attempt, the bill would have been more $- labor for the module, the module itself, the entire MAP sensor portion, diagnostics, and taxesHer paying for just the module actually makes the overall expense to her less than what it would have been if we found everything with all the information in the beginning, costing her $if she were to pay for the module that is on her car nowShe still comes out less than if everything went perfectly from the beginning
Final Consumer Response /* (4200, 11, 2017/10/12) */
(The consumer indicated he/she DID NOT accept the response from the business.)
When Donnie called me to let me know that he had done the diagnostic test he did not tell me anything about the ignition module and the check engine light is still on as of todayI don't feel like he tried to work with me at all and when he fixed my car the second time he did not call me and say anything he gave the car to *** *** which is my god son not my son and no one is going to be responsible for my car but me, he didn't call and tell me this was the problem he did not try to work with me at all, all he wanted was me to pay for what he should have done from the beginningI will never take my car there again and I don't feel like I owe him anymore money because I paid him to do a diagnostic test on my car so I would not take it to so many different place for guess work, but instead that is what I got from yeoman services centerI feel like the next person he do this to he will get his money back I don't feel like he done any favors for me I paid him and he did make a mistake

Initial Business Response /* (1000, 6, 2017/03/07) */
***,
I am going to go ahead and send all of the paperwork I have on Mr*** The last conversation I had with Mr*** was on 3/1/and he told me he would drop the Revdex.com claim if I would write a letter to Mazda on
his behalf, so I did
I have enclosed:
A letter to Mazda - includes in great detail that should also work to explain our side of the story to you
A timeline of events from start to finish
Approvals that Mr*** (on the estimates enclosed) authorized to me with time stamps and dates from start to finish
Pages from our paid for professional recourses that we use to help troubleshoot and fix carsThis is a reputable repair database we have belonged to for years, called Identifix
Invoices with the approvals labeled in phases of the project - Phase 1, Phase 2, etcThis was done as we baby stepped the process of repair as things did in fact change along the way
One photo - old, damaged splines on left and new part the right we ordered from Canada - stub shaft with good splines (grooves)
The records show me contacting him and letting him know all the changes as they progressedFrom the beginning, he was informed we would need to start taking things apart on the car in order to find if there were any further issues, damage, or concerns and he was made aware that a transmission replacement could be an end result for repair
Parts for this vehicle were unavailable making this a very difficult situation to make the proper repairParts were unavailable used, aftermarket, or new from there dealerParts from the dealer were on backorder for an undetermined amount of timeIf parts were available, his car could have been repaired in a timelier manner and at less costSince parts were not available from the dealer or anywhere else, and the only way to get the specific parts for the failed section of the transmission, a we needed were now only serviceable from the dealer as a complete transmission assemblyOriginally, we were told we could get parts needed for repair from *** *** but come to find out they could not get the parts like they originally said they couldThere have been so many issues with this component that has failed parts were impossible to obtain., therefore we could only repair the vehicle as best as possible with the parts we did have to work with
I did give him the option that I would ask *** *** for our money back and we could go about getting a new transmission from the dealer when they were available, but the cost would go to *** instead of our final estimate and repair of *** He declined that option
If there are any questions, please feel free to contact me or if I have failed to submit the proper paper work
Thank you,
*** ***