Signal Garage Auto Care

Initial Business Response / [redacted] (1000, 5, 2015/09/01) */ To home it may concern: Case #: [redacted] brought her car in for a noise from the engine area which she described as a "whirring" noiseUpon inspection this noise was quickly identified as a bearing / pulley noise (typical of a worn out bearing) Noise travels and transfers from one component to another via mounting brackets and solid metal parts, which sometimes can make it difficult to pinpoint the exact cause of the noise When attempting to identify a pulley bearing that is failing it is most common and in many cases the most accurate place to start is to remove the drive belt from all of the pulleys and spin each pulley by handGenerally if there is a pulley bearing that has failed or is in the process of failing, that pulley will make some noise when spun by handIt may have noticeably more resistance while spinning, or it will have movement ("play") from side to side Mike (our master certified technician) removed the belt and followed that procedureThe pulley on the drive belt tensioner made some noise and displayed excessive resistance which led him to the conclusion that this pulley bearing was worn out Mark spoke with [redacted] and recommended replacement of the tensioner at this point (NOTE: I believe that this is where we failed [redacted] by not communicating clearly enough to her that there is a chance that other components in the engine compartment could be contributing to the problem and that there is always a possibility that more than one component could be the cause.) After replacing the tensioner and reinstalling the drive belt there was still some pulley bearing noise, not as loud, but never the less, still noisy Since noise can be very difficult to identify since it transfers through component mounts & the engine itselfThe next step in testing involves using a stethoscope while the vehicle is running with the belt installed By touching the stethoscope to each component that has a moving pulley, the mounting brackets and the areas around these components the technician can find the area where the noise is the loudestTypically the loudest component is the one with the bad pulley / bearing Mike (our master certified technician) concluded that the noise was by far the loudest on the bracket which the power steering pump and alternator are mounted to At this point Mark recommended that we start by replacing the pump for a couple of reasons - The noise is the loudest here, leading us to believe that the pump is the component with the bad pulley bearing - The pump is mounted right above the alternator and is significantly less money to replace than the alternator He informed [redacted] that this is where we have to start (NOTE: Mark did not write in the notes section that he told [redacted] about possible additional problems, but said that to the best of his recollection he told her that there is a possibility of an additional problem.) The pump was unavailable locally so we ordered it from out of townWhen the pump was delivered Mark was out of town for a business conference Mike (our master certified technician) installed the new pump and found that the noise was still there, this indicated that the alternator was indeed the source of the noiseEven with the brand new pump installed the noise was still significantly louder on the pump bracket than anywhere else (when listening with the stethoscope by Mike and Ethan) At this point Ethan called [redacted] and informed her that the pump did not take care of the issue and the alternator would need to be replacedHe told her that the pump has to be removed in order to replace the alternator, so we can reinstall the original pump and there will be no cost to the work we have done on the pump, and save her the cost of the new pump [redacted] was unhappy with this answer; it was apparently not made clear enough to her that there was a possibility of a different issue when she approved replacement of the pumpShe asked that we reinstall the old pump and she would pick up the car That is exactly what we did Due to the miscommunication Ethan did not charge [redacted] anything for the work done related to the pump despite having put over an hour worth of work into that portion of the job When [redacted] arrived to pick up the car Ethan explained in detail how difficult it can be to identify noises due to how much the noise transfers, explained the testing process and the reasons for starting with the pump rather than the alternator, explained (and showed her on the car) the locations of the parts in question as well as the locations that were listened to with the stethoscope and where the noise was the loudestEthan explained that even with the new power steering pump, the noise is still loudest by the pump, and not by the AlternatorHe apologized for the lack of communication, for the unfortunate string of events, and explained that sometimes it is just impossible to know without trying things, and finally and he explained again why she was not being charged for the work done with the pump After [redacted] picked up the car Ethan called me to inform me of the situation and said that he felt that [redacted] was disappointed about the results, but he also felt that after he took the time to explain the process, and show here where the components where located on the car she seemed to understand what we had to do in order to find the cause of the problemHe felt that she was not upset with him, nor did she request to be reimbursed (NOTE: The truth of the matter is that sometimes there are no clear indications of a cause to a problem; this is the same as going to the doctor's office and having them perform several tests and try different medications, as well as sometimes having to come back for more than one office visit before they can solve a problem.) Below in bulk font, please find the communications notes taken by Mark and Ethan: MP- [redacted] approved belt tensioner at this time8-18-@ 8:50am $She is going to check her records to see if the other maintitems have been done MP-after replacing the belt tensioner we are hearing noise from the p/s pumpI spoke to [redacted] and she agreed to replace the pump with OEUnfortunately the part is not readily available from WPPart should be here on 8-19-@ 11am ED - around 4:PM pump didn't fix the problem, need to try alternatorTensioner with alternator (removal of new pump and reinstallation of old pump included @ no additional labor, & pump comes out to do alternator): [redacted] was very unhappy with the situation (i think because first the total was 300, then 650, then 987.46) and asked that we put the old pump back in & she will pick it upshe said she was told if the pump didn't fix the problem we would not charge her for itIt was apparently never made clear to her that the pump may not fix the problem (NOTE: Neither Mark nor Ethan estimated or talked about any repairs that would cost $We don't know where [redacted] got that idea.) (NOTE: This morning around 9:AM I called [redacted] 's office at 651-690-and was told that she is not working todayI called the [redacted] number and left a message identifying myself, and asked her to call me at my office at [redacted] So far I did not hear back from her.) (NOTE: We still have the old belt tensioner; we are happy to reinstall the old tensioner and reimburse [redacted] One of the reasons we stood the test of time (this year we are celebrating our 45th year in business), and have so many loyal customers is the fact that we take care of our customers, we tell the truth, we don't make up stories, we go the extra mile, and we do what our customers ask us to do The last call Ethan got from [redacted] was when she asked him to remove the new pump, and reinstall the old one at no chargeWe did exactly that The unfortunate thing is that people think that we have all the answers all the time, and we are not "allowed" to perform tests, and try things - we are expected to be 100% right on the first try, yet we can't ask the car what is the problem If [redacted] wants us to reinstall the old (and mind you, failing tensioner) we will do thatLife is too short to hold a grudge; we are very fortunate and thankful to have a very large number of loyal customersWe will continue providing the best service we know how, and treat our customers with the respect and appreciation they deserve.) Please let me know what [redacted] wants to do so we can move onI wish [redacted] the best, and good luck finding a shop that will take of her to her satisfaction Sincerely [redacted] President Initial Consumer Rebuttal / [redacted] (3000, 7, 2015/09/08) */ (The consumer indicated he/she DID NOT accept the response from the business.) There are a few incorrect statements made in regards to the business owners response When I spoke with Mark about the drive belt tensioner not being the fix for the noise he said they would order a new power steering pump, install it to see if that was the problemIf it was not the problem they would take out the new pump and put my original one back in no chargeThen when I spoke with Ethan he said that it was going to be $to take out the new pump and put mine back inI told Ethan that Mark never mentioned I would be charged for something that was not neededIt is a lie saying that Ethan told me there would be "no charge" for this work when in fact, I told him I was not paying for this The owner also states, that when I picked up my car Ethan "explained to me and SHOWED me on my car the location of the parts in question and the locations that they listened to with the stethoscope" That never happenedNobody "showed" me on my car what they were talking about As for my estimate of $that they have no idea where I came up with, would be what I would have had to pay if I let these people do all of the work they said needed to be done$for the tension pulley, $for the pump replacement and close to $for the alternatorPlus anything else they could think to tack on I figured about $ I especially love the part where the business owner offers to reinstall my original tensionerProblem solved! First off, how do I know that would be my part? Second, why do they still have that part and where have they been keeping it? Who's to say they didn't just chuck it in the corner under a bunch of other parts? I do not know the condition in which this part has been keptThat being said, I obviously do not trust these people so why would I ever let them touch my car again? Lastly, I do not care about "one of the reasons we have stood the test of time (this year we are celebrating out 45th year in business) and have so many loyal customers is the fact" .........blah blah blah This Revdex.com complaint is to try to resolve a problem with ME the consumer and YOU the business ownerThe Revdex.com is mediating onlyThis is not the time to plug your business, this is not an opportunity for you to have some free advertisementCan we please stick to the facts of the situation? I did end up "finding a shop that will take of me to my satisfaction" FYI I really only want my money backProblem solved! Final Business Response / [redacted] (4000, 9, 2015/09/17) */ Mr***, In order to end this situation without further discussion, we are sending a refund check to Ms [redacted] for the total amount paid, $ Thank you, [redacted] Signal Garage Auto Care [redacted] West St Paul MN (651) [redacted] Saint Paul MN (651) [redacted] Final Consumer Response / [redacted] (2000, 11, 2015/09/22) */ (The consumer indicated he/she ACCEPTED the response from the business.) Thank you

? I am rejecting this response because:You broke parts under the hood of my truck and covered it up like you stated in your replySome of the other things you have mentioned in your response is not true, and will continued to be questioned because of your unethical business practice you showed meI brought my truck to you to be fixed not to have it broken in other places and potentially cause me and my family a wreck because of your negligence.I don't not feel comfortable or safe having your shop work on my vehicle at this point.? The check that was written on 11/16/for $which is for the part alone, does not cover the labor I attached from the Range Rover dealership to this claimAs far as you stating that I waited weeks to get into the dealership, that was the earliest appointment.I also stated this in my complaint that I had to wait weeks for this appointmentThe reason I didn't bring my truck back was because after finding out things were broken at Signal Hills and talking to Ethan who in turn stated, That wouldn't have happened here, we don't do that kind of work, how do you know this wasn't done at another shop further scared me awayAnd now seeing that he knew that part was broken and was the root cause of the lights coming on my dashAs of today I get intermittent check engine light and now transmission fault lightYou were untruthful, dishonest and trying to take money from a single parent and you didn't careYou being responsible for or negligent of would have never came into play had you acted morally correct and bringing to my attention what you had broken on a new customers vehicleYou didn't care about the money out of my pocket, the safety of my family,the stress this has caused with being inconvenienced for weeks and now months laterI do not want to draw this out any longer, if you are not going to meet my request please just say so there fore I can go about this another direction.? ?

I have attached a copy of our response letter. ***SEE ATTACHMENT*** Thank you for your consideration. Please feel welcome to call me any time at ###-###-####. Sincerely,Avi ***Signal Garage Auto Care

Initial Business Response /* (1000, 5, 2015/09/01) */
To home it may concern:
Case #: ***
*** brought her car in for a noise from the engine area which she described as a "whirring" noiseUpon inspection this noise was quickly identified as a bearing / pulley
noise (typical of a worn out bearing)
Noise travels and transfers from one component to another via mounting brackets and solid metal parts, which sometimes can make it difficult to pinpoint the exact cause of the noise
When attempting to identify a pulley bearing that is failing it is most common and in many cases the most accurate place to start is to remove the drive belt from all of the pulleys and spin each pulley by handGenerally if there is a pulley bearing that has failed or is in the process of failing, that pulley will make some noise when spun by handIt may have noticeably more resistance while spinning, or it will have movement ("play") from side to side
Mike (our master certified technician) removed the belt and followed that procedureThe pulley on the drive belt tensioner made some noise and displayed excessive resistance which led him to the conclusion that this pulley bearing was worn out
Mark spoke with *** and recommended replacement of the tensioner at this point
(NOTE: I believe that this is where we failed *** by not communicating clearly enough to her that there is a chance that other components in the engine compartment could be contributing to the problem and that there is always a possibility that more than one component could be the cause.)
After replacing the tensioner and reinstalling the drive belt there was still some pulley bearing noise, not as loud, but never the less, still noisy
Since noise can be very difficult to identify since it transfers through component mounts & the engine itselfThe next step in testing involves using a stethoscope while the vehicle is running with the belt installed
By touching the stethoscope to each component that has a moving pulley, the mounting brackets and the areas around these components the technician can find the area where the noise is the loudestTypically the loudest component is the one with the bad pulley / bearing
Mike (our master certified technician) concluded that the noise was by far the loudest on the bracket which the power steering pump and alternator are mounted to
At this point Mark recommended that we start by replacing the pump for a couple of reasons
- The noise is the loudest here, leading us to believe that the pump is the component with the bad pulley bearing
- The pump is mounted right above the alternator and is significantly less money to replace than the alternator
He informed *** that this is where we have to start
(NOTE: Mark did not write in the notes section that he told *** about possible additional problems, but said that to the best of his recollection he told her that there is a possibility of an additional problem.)
The pump was unavailable locally so we ordered it from out of townWhen the pump was delivered Mark was out of town for a business conference
Mike (our master certified technician) installed the new pump and found that the noise was still there, this indicated that the alternator was indeed the source of the noiseEven with the brand new pump installed the noise was still significantly louder on the pump bracket than anywhere else (when listening with the stethoscope by Mike and Ethan)
At this point Ethan called *** and informed her that the pump did not take care of the issue and the alternator would need to be replacedHe told her that the pump has to be removed in order to replace the alternator, so we can reinstall the original pump and there will be no cost to the work we have done on the pump, and save her the cost of the new pump
*** was unhappy with this answer; it was apparently not made clear enough to her that there was a possibility of a different issue when she approved replacement of the pumpShe asked that we reinstall the old pump and she would pick up the car
That is exactly what we did
Due to the miscommunication Ethan did not charge *** anything for the work done related to the pump despite having put over an hour worth of work into that portion of the job
When *** arrived to pick up the car Ethan explained in detail how difficult it can be to identify noises due to how much the noise transfers, explained the testing process and the reasons for starting with the pump rather than the alternator, explained (and showed her on the car) the locations of the parts in question as well as the locations that were listened to with the stethoscope and where the noise was the loudestEthan explained that even with the new power steering pump, the noise is still loudest by the pump, and not by the AlternatorHe apologized for the lack of communication, for the unfortunate string of events, and explained that sometimes it is just impossible to know without trying things, and finally and he explained again why she was not being charged for the work done with the pump
After *** picked up the car Ethan called me to inform me of the situation and said that he felt that *** was disappointed about the results, but he also felt that after he took the time to explain the process, and show here where the components where located on the car she seemed to understand what we had to do in order to find the cause of the problemHe felt that she was not upset with him, nor did she request to be reimbursed
(NOTE: The truth of the matter is that sometimes there are no clear indications of a cause to a problem; this is the same as going to the doctor's office and having them perform several tests and try different medications, as well as sometimes having to come back for more than one office visit before they can solve a problem.)
Below in bulk font, please find the communications notes taken by Mark and Ethan:
MP-*** approved belt tensioner at this time8-18-@ 8:50am $She is going to check her records to see if the other maintitems have been done
MP-after replacing the belt tensioner we are hearing noise from the p/s pumpI spoke to *** and she agreed to replace the pump with OEUnfortunately the part is not readily available from WPPart should be here on 8-19-@ 11am
ED - around 4:PM pump didn't fix the problem, need to try alternatorTensioner with alternator (removal of new pump and reinstallation of old pump included @ no additional labor, & pump comes out to do alternator): *** was very unhappy with the situation (i think because first the total was 300, then 650, then 987.46) and asked that we put the old pump back in & she will pick it upshe said she was told if the pump didn't fix the problem we would not charge her for itIt was apparently never made clear to her that the pump may not fix the problem
(NOTE: Neither Mark nor Ethan estimated or talked about any repairs that would cost $We don't know where *** got that idea.)
(NOTE: This morning around 9:AM I called ***'s office at 651-690-and was told that she is not working todayI called the *** number and left a message identifying myself, and asked her to call me at my office at *** So far I did not hear back from her.)
(NOTE: We still have the old belt tensioner; we are happy to reinstall the old tensioner and reimburse ***
One of the reasons we stood the test of time (this year we are celebrating our 45th year in business), and have so many loyal customers is the fact that we take care of our customers, we tell the truth, we don't make up stories, we go the extra mile, and we do what our customers ask us to do
The last call Ethan got from *** was when she asked him to remove the new pump, and reinstall the old one at no chargeWe did exactly that
The unfortunate thing is that people think that we have all the answers all the time, and we are not "allowed" to perform tests, and try things - we are expected to be 100% right on the first try, yet we can't ask the car what is the problem
If *** wants us to reinstall the old (and mind you, failing tensioner) we will do thatLife is too short to hold a grudge; we are very fortunate and thankful to have a very large number of loyal customersWe will continue providing the best service we know how, and treat our customers with the respect and appreciation they deserve.)
Please let me know what *** wants to do so we can move onI wish *** the best, and good luck finding a shop that will take of her to her satisfaction
Sincerely
***
President
Initial Consumer Rebuttal /* (3000, 7, 2015/09/08) */
(The consumer indicated he/she DID NOT accept the response from the business.)
There are a few incorrect statements made in regards to the business owners response
When I spoke with Mark about the drive belt tensioner not being the fix for the noise he said they would order a new power steering pump, install it to see if that was the problemIf it was not the problem they would take out the new pump and put my original one back in no chargeThen when I spoke with Ethan he said that it was going to be $to take out the new pump and put mine back inI told Ethan that Mark never mentioned I would be charged for something that was not neededIt is a lie saying that Ethan told me there would be "no charge" for this work when in fact, I told him I was not paying for this
The owner also states, that when I picked up my car Ethan "explained to me and SHOWED me on my car the location of the parts in question and the locations that they listened to with the stethoscope" That never happenedNobody "showed" me on my car what they were talking about
As for my estimate of $that they have no idea where I came up with, would be what I would have had to pay if I let these people do all of the work they said needed to be done$for the tension pulley, $for the pump replacement and close to $for the alternatorPlus anything else they could think to tack on I figured about $
I especially love the part where the business owner offers to reinstall my original tensionerProblem solved!
First off, how do I know that would be my part? Second, why do they still have that part and where have they been keeping it? Who's to say they didn't just chuck it in the corner under a bunch of other parts? I do not know the condition in which this part has been keptThat being said, I obviously do not trust these people so
why would I ever let them touch my car again?
Lastly, I do not care about "one of the reasons we have stood the test of time (this year we are celebrating out 45th year in business) and have so many loyal customers is the fact" .........blah blah blah
This Revdex.com complaint is to try to resolve a problem with ME the consumer and YOU the business ownerThe Revdex.com is mediating onlyThis is not the time to plug your business, this is not an opportunity for you to have some free advertisementCan we please stick to the facts of the situation?
I did end up "finding a shop that will take of me to my satisfaction" FYI
I really only want my money backProblem solved!
Final Business Response /* (4000, 9, 2015/09/17) */
Mr***,
In order to end this situation without further discussion, we are sending a refund check to Ms*** for the total amount paid, $
Thank you,
***
Signal Garage Auto Care
*** West St Paul MN (651) ***
*** Saint Paul MN (651) ***
Final Consumer Response /* (2000, 11, 2015/09/22) */
(The consumer indicated he/she ACCEPTED the response from the business.)
Thank you

I have attached a copy of our response letter ***SEE ATTACHMENT*** Thank you for your considerationPlease feel welcome to call me any time at ###-###-####. Sincerely,Avi ***Signal Garage Auto Care

Please see attached summary letter called "*** ***", as well as our original repair order, the copy of the letter forwarded to Ms*** and a copy of the repair estimate and our check copy to Ms ***.

I am rejecting this response because:You broke parts under the hood of my
truck and covered it up like you stated in your replySome of the other things you have mentioned in your response is not true, and will continued to be questioned because of your unethical business practice you showed meI brought my truck to you to be fixed not to have it broken in other places and potentially cause me and my family a wreck because of your negligence.I don't not feel comfortable or safe having your shop work on my vehicle at this point. The check that was written on 11/16/for $which is for the part alone, does not cover the labor I attached from the Range Rover dealership to this claimAs far as you stating that I waited weeks to get into the dealership, that was the earliest appointment.I also stated this in my complaint that I had to wait weeks for this appointmentThe reason I didn't bring my truck back was because after finding out things were broken at Signal Hills and talking to Ethan who in turn stated, That wouldn't have happened here, we don't do that kind of work, how do you know this wasn't done at another shop further scared me awayAnd now seeing that he knew that part was broken and was the root cause of the lights coming on my dashAs of today I get intermittent check engine light and now transmission fault lightYou were untruthful, dishonest and trying to take money from a single parent and you didn't careYou being responsible for or negligent of would have never came into play had you acted morally correct and bringing to my attention what you had broken on a new customers vehicleYou didn't care about the money out of my pocket, the safety of my family,the stress this has caused with being inconvenienced for weeks and now months laterI do not want to draw this out any longer, if you are not going to meet my request please just say so there fore I can go about this another direction.

I am rejecting this response because:You broke parts under the hood of my
truck and covered it up like you stated in your replySome of the other things you have mentioned in your response is not true, and will continued to be questioned because of your unethical business practice you showed meI brought my truck to you to be fixed not to have it broken in other places and potentially cause me and my family a wreck because of your negligence.I don't not feel comfortable or safe having your shop work on my vehicle at this point. The check that was written on 11/16/for $which is for the part alone, does not cover the labor I attached from the Range Rover dealership to this claimAs far as you stating that I waited weeks to get into the dealership, that was the earliest appointment.I also stated this in my complaint that I had to wait weeks for this appointmentThe reason I didn't bring my truck back was because after finding out things were broken at Signal Hills and talking to Ethan who in turn stated, That wouldn't have happened here, we don't do that kind of work, how do you know this wasn't done at another shop further scared me awayAnd now seeing that he knew that part was broken and was the root cause of the lights coming on my dashAs of today I get intermittent check engine light and now transmission fault lightYou were untruthful, dishonest and trying to take money from a single parent and you didn't careYou being responsible for or negligent of would have never came into play had you acted morally correct and bringing to my attention what you had broken on a new customers vehicleYou didn't care about the money out of my pocket, the safety of my family,the stress this has caused with being inconvenienced for weeks and now months laterI do not want to draw this out any longer, if you are not going to meet my request please just say so there fore I can go about this another direction

I have attached a copy of our response letter.  [redacted]SEE ATTACHMENT[redacted] Thank you for your consideration. Please feel welcome to call me any time at ###-###-####. Sincerely,Avi [redacted]Signal Garage Auto Care

Please see attached summary letter called "[redacted]", as well as our original repair order, the copy of the letter forwarded to Ms. [redacted] and a copy of the repair estimate and our check copy to Ms [redacted].

Initial Business Response /* (1000, 5, 2015/09/01) */
To home it may concern:
Case #: [redacted]
[redacted] brought her car in for a noise from the engine area which she described as a "whirring" noise. Upon inspection this noise was quickly identified as a bearing / pulley...

noise (typical of a worn out bearing).
Noise travels and transfers from one component to another via mounting brackets and solid metal parts, which sometimes can make it difficult to pinpoint the exact cause of the noise.
When attempting to identify a pulley bearing that is failing it is most common and in many cases the most accurate place to start is to remove the drive belt from all of the pulleys and spin each pulley by hand. Generally if there is a pulley bearing that has failed or is in the process of failing, that pulley will make some noise when spun by hand. It may have noticeably more resistance while spinning, or it will have movement ("play") from side to side.
Mike (our master certified technician) removed the belt and followed that procedure. The pulley on the drive belt tensioner made some noise and displayed excessive resistance which led him to the conclusion that this pulley bearing was worn out.
Mark spoke with [redacted] and recommended replacement of the tensioner at this point.
(NOTE: I believe that this is where we failed [redacted] by not communicating clearly enough to her that there is a chance that other components in the engine compartment could be contributing to the problem and that there is always a possibility that more than one component could be the cause.)
After replacing the tensioner and reinstalling the drive belt there was still some pulley bearing noise, not as loud, but never the less, still noisy.
Since noise can be very difficult to identify since it transfers through component mounts & the engine itself. The next step in testing involves using a stethoscope while the vehicle is running with the belt installed.
By touching the stethoscope to each component that has a moving pulley, the mounting brackets and the areas around these components the technician can find the area where the noise is the loudest. Typically the loudest component is the one with the bad pulley / bearing.
Mike (our master certified technician) concluded that the noise was by far the loudest on the bracket which the power steering pump and alternator are mounted to.
At this point Mark recommended that we start by replacing the pump for a couple of reasons.
1 - The noise is the loudest here, leading us to believe that the pump is the component with the bad pulley bearing.
2 - The pump is mounted right above the alternator and is significantly less money to replace than the alternator.
He informed [redacted] that this is where we have to start.
(NOTE: Mark did not write in the notes section that he told [redacted] about possible additional problems, but said that to the best of his recollection he told her that there is a possibility of an additional problem.)
The pump was unavailable locally so we ordered it from out of town. When the pump was delivered Mark was out of town for a business conference.
Mike (our master certified technician) installed the new pump and found that the noise was still there, this indicated that the alternator was indeed the source of the noise. Even with the brand new pump installed the noise was still significantly louder on the pump bracket than anywhere else (when listening with the stethoscope by Mike and Ethan).
At this point Ethan called [redacted] and informed her that the pump did not take care of the issue and the alternator would need to be replaced. He told her that the pump has to be removed in order to replace the alternator, so we can reinstall the original pump and there will be no cost to the work we have done on the pump, and save her the cost of the new pump.
[redacted] was unhappy with this answer; it was apparently not made clear enough to her that there was a possibility of a different issue when she approved replacement of the pump. She asked that we reinstall the old pump and she would pick up the car.
That is exactly what we did.
Due to the miscommunication Ethan did not charge [redacted] anything for the work done related to the pump despite having put over an hour worth of work into that portion of the job.
When [redacted] arrived to pick up the car Ethan explained in detail how difficult it can be to identify noises due to how much the noise transfers, explained the testing process and the reasons for starting with the pump rather than the alternator, explained (and showed her on the car) the locations of the parts in question as well as the locations that were listened to with the stethoscope and where the noise was the loudest. Ethan explained that even with the new power steering pump, the noise is still loudest by the pump, and not by the Alternator. He apologized for the lack of communication, for the unfortunate string of events, and explained that sometimes it is just impossible to know without trying things, and finally and he explained again why she was not being charged for the work done with the pump.
After [redacted] picked up the car Ethan called me to inform me of the situation and said that he felt that [redacted] was disappointed about the results, but he also felt that after he took the time to explain the process, and show here where the components where located on the car she seemed to understand what we had to do in order to find the cause of the problem. He felt that she was not upset with him, nor did she request to be reimbursed.
(NOTE: The truth of the matter is that sometimes there are no clear indications of a cause to a problem; this is the same as going to the doctor's office and having them perform several tests and try different medications, as well as sometimes having to come back for more than one office visit before they can solve a problem.)
Below in bulk font, please find the communications notes taken by Mark and Ethan:
MP-[redacted] approved belt tensioner at this time. 8-18-15 @ 8:50am $299.64. She is going to check her records to see if the other maint. items have been done.
MP-after replacing the belt tensioner we are hearing noise from the p/s pump. I spoke to [redacted] and she agreed to replace the pump with OE. Unfortunately the part is not readily available from WP. Part should be here on 8-19-15 @ 11am
ED - around 4:00 PM pump didn't fix the problem, need to try alternator. Tensioner with alternator (removal of new pump and reinstallation of old pump included @ no additional labor, & pump comes out to do alternator): 987.46. [redacted] was very unhappy with the situation (i think because first the total was 300, then 650, then 987.46) and asked that we put the old pump back in & she will pick it up. she said she was told if the pump didn't fix the problem we would not charge her for it. It was apparently never made clear to her that the pump may not fix the problem.
(NOTE: Neither Mark nor Ethan estimated or talked about any repairs that would cost $1500.00. We don't know where [redacted] got that idea.)
(NOTE: This morning around 9:15 AM I called [redacted]'s office at 651-690-1564 and was told that she is not working today. I called the [redacted] number and left a message identifying myself, and asked her to call me at my office at [redacted]. So far I did not hear back from her.)
(NOTE: We still have the old belt tensioner; we are happy to reinstall the old tensioner and reimburse [redacted].
One of the reasons we stood the test of time (this year we are celebrating our 45th year in business), and have so many loyal customers is the fact that we take care of our customers, we tell the truth, we don't make up stories, we go the extra mile, and we do what our customers ask us to do.

The last call Ethan got from [redacted] was when she asked him to remove the new pump, and reinstall the old one at no charge. We did exactly that.
The unfortunate thing is that people think that we have all the answers all the time, and we are not "allowed" to perform tests, and try things - we are expected to be 100% right on the first try, yet we can't ask the car what is the problem...
If [redacted] wants us to reinstall the old (and mind you, failing tensioner) we will do that. Life is too short to hold a grudge; we are very fortunate and thankful to have a very large number of loyal customers. We will continue providing the best service we know how, and treat our customers with the respect and appreciation they deserve.)
Please let me know what [redacted] wants to do so we can move on. I wish [redacted] the best, and good luck finding a shop that will take of her to her satisfaction.
Sincerely
[redacted]
President
Initial Consumer Rebuttal /* (3000, 7, 2015/09/08) */
(The consumer indicated he/she DID NOT accept the response from the business.)
There are a few incorrect statements made in regards to the business owners response.
When I spoke with Mark about the drive belt tensioner not being the fix for the noise he said they would order a new power steering pump, install it to see if that was the problem. If it was not the problem they would take out the new pump and put my original one back in no charge. Then when I spoke with Ethan he said that it was going to be $400 to take out the new pump and put mine back in. I told Ethan that Mark never mentioned I would be charged for something that was not needed. It is a lie saying that Ethan told me there would be "no charge" for this work when in fact, I told him I was not paying for this.
The owner also states, that when I picked up my car Ethan "explained to me and SHOWED me on my car the location of the parts in question and the locations that they listened to with the stethoscope" That never happened. Nobody "showed" me on my car what they were talking about.
As for my estimate of $1500 that they have no idea where I came up with, would be what I would have had to pay if I let these people do all of the work they said needed to be done. $300 for the tension pulley, $400 for the pump replacement and close to $700 for the alternator. Plus anything else they could think to tack on I figured about $100.
I especially love the part where the business owner offers to reinstall my original tensioner. Problem solved!
First off, how do I know that would be my part? Second, why do they still have that part and where have they been keeping it? Who's to say they didn't just chuck it in the corner under a bunch of other parts? I do not know the condition in which this part has been kept. That being said, I obviously do not trust these people so
why would I ever let them touch my car again?
Lastly, I do not care about "one of the reasons we have stood the test of time (this year we are celebrating out 45th year in business) and have so many loyal customers is the fact" .........blah blah blah.
This Revdex.com complaint is to try to resolve a problem with ME the consumer and YOU the business owner. The Revdex.com is mediating only. This is not the time to plug your business, this is not an opportunity for you to have some free advertisement. Can we please stick to the facts of the situation?
I did end up "finding a shop that will take of me to my satisfaction" FYI
I really only want my money back. Problem solved!
Final Business Response /* (4000, 9, 2015/09/17) */
Mr. [redacted],

In order to end this situation without further discussion, we are sending a refund check to Ms. [redacted] for the total amount paid, $265.58.

Thank you,
[redacted]
Signal Garage Auto Care
[redacted] West St Paul MN 55118 (651) [redacted]
[redacted] Saint Paul MN 55105 (651) [redacted]
Final Consumer Response /* (2000, 11, 2015/09/22) */
(The consumer indicated he/she ACCEPTED the response from the business.)
Thank you