Silver Horse Retreat

Revdex.com:
I have reviewed the response made by the business in reference to complaint ID ***, and have determined that this proposed action would not resolve my complaint. For your reference, details of the offer I reviewed appear below
Revdex.com:I have reviewed the response made by the business in reference to complaint ID ***, and have determined that this proposed action would not resolve my complaint. For your reference, details of the offer I reviewed appear below.Dear Sir/Madam, the response from this business does not explain the outrageous cost of the stay for us overnight-here is the similar accommodations in the area which cost fraction of the price the business owner (***) charged us. ***Here is also a breakdown from the business owner emailed me later, after the fact without my consent. Planning/organizing/admin.*** 4hrs @ $= $120*** assistant $x 6hrs travel time and gas = $90*** assistant onsite $x hrs =$140*** shopping for food and crafts $x hrs = $240Cost of food, propane, and craft materials$250 Friday Assistant help with preparing for group onsite and clean up $x = $100*** Saturday morning meal preparation for meals $x = $150*** onsite with group of Saturday afternoon and eveningIncludes catering, and activities in preparation for daughter’s ceremony on Sunday.$x = $270*** onsite Sunday catering and preparing for ceremony including horse activities. $x hrs = $240Camping $x =$200Horse cost $200Total $2’000I didn't hire *** or her assistants for our tripIt is not what discussed on the phone or I was prepared to pay forthe camping only. We came to ride on the horses, which *** offered and didn't fulfilled the obligationThe image she is showing is a minute walk on the horse and its is not fulfilling her commitment to let the kids ride and take turns as agreed in this email previouslyShe also didn't fulfilled her host obligations as to the sanitary and basic short term rental requrements.There was a horse manure everywhere and there was no sink to wash the hands.After I posted my honest review, she signed up her friends to fire back on *** and do a negative rating of my business.I can provide any images if neededVery much grateful for your help and assistance with this unlawful business.Regards,*** ***
Regards,
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Hello, t*** you for informing me about this complaint.I have had corrospondance with this person, ***, who came with a party of eight for an overnight camping retreat to do a rites of passage ceremony which involved one of our horses.I am including the email exchange we had prior to and post this
event which took place on October 14th and 15th of October 2017.We fulfilled our end of the agreement but when it was time to do the actual ceremony for the daughter the daughter refused to do itIt is not our responsibility to have the daughter co operateI was asked to modify what we had agreed upon and I led the daughter around on our horse ***The mother wanted me to give all the kids rides which I didn't do as it wasn't safe and it was not what I agreed to as we do not offer recreational riding becasue our horses are not rained for this activityIf you read the email exchange you will see I was very specific about what the horses part in thsi ceremony would be.We have a no monetary refund for services rendered which is on our websiteI did offer the mother to come back for half a day and even camp over in order that her children could get what they wanted which was horse ridingI was willing to do this even though we do not offer this, to please the motherShe refused this and is adament in that she receive her money back.She has since written negative one star reviews with the facts distorted, the price what she paid inflated and that they were expecting hours of ridingWhich as you will see in the email thread was never mentioned.I have attached photos of the daughter on *** and the parents plus their friend on the hike which I took them on and which the children refused to participate in to prove that they were here and participated in what we agreed upon.T*** you, *** ***Here is the email exchange.Email thread regarding planning and proposal of rites of passage for twelve year old daughter First email received 9/28/from *** ***Sent from my ***, *** *** smartphone -------- Original message --------From: *** *** Date: 9/28/10:AM (GMT-08:00)To: ***@silverhorse.usSubject: private retreat Hi ***, we are looking for a private horse retreat with about -people,my daughter is turning and she came to your camp in Topanga, and she wants it for her birthdaythis yearWe are hoping to do something like right of passage ceremony for her.Please, let me know if you are interested in hosting. The preferred dates are October 13-14-of this year. On Sep 28, 2017, at 11:AM, *** *** wrote: Hi ***, We are now in Ranchita San Diego county.I'm available - - 16 ---- On Sat, Oct 17:06:-*** wrote ---- Yes, sorry didn't get the email till nowHow should we connect? My phone is ***We are so exited to come for the weekend! Best, ***Sent from my *** October 7th 2017*** *** to "***"Hi ***,Great! Can you tell me more what you are thinking?I recognize your name and email but can't put a face to you, sorry!Heads up with the horses.I've retired *** from riding, and *** and *** passed.*** is the only riding horses I have.And it might be too much for everyone to ride her.If you are OK with the girls hanging with the horses, brushing, petting, and I have a new horse, Corazon, a mustang, who loves hugs.I still have Silver!We have camping available and a big tipi that the girls could sleep in.There is also great hiking and we can take the horses for walks.I can do food too, like BBQ style and salads, breakfast etc.Just need to get a better understanding of your budget, how may kids etc.We can totally do a beautiful horses dance ceremony for your daughter!Let me know.I am working all day tomorrow and then leaving Ojai for homeI have a clinet coming in on Monday and will be working till Friday.You guys could arrive saturday around midday and set up camp and we can do something in the afternoon, and all day Sunday.I'm also available Monday,best *** *** *** ***silverhorse.us***
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*** *** to "*** ***" Hi ***, just confirming you got my previous emailWe are about people, kids, adultsWe'd like to have food mainly vegetarian- Maybe some sort of meaningful Ritual on Saturday eveningLooking forward to hear from you about the financial part of itWe would like to use the tipi if possibleAlso, what are the other activities? We like hiking and horses, is there a hot springs nearby? If not it's ok tooPlease let me know soon, ***.Looking forward to see you on Saturday pm Best, ***Sent from my *** *** *** to "***" sent october 10th 2017 Hi ***,Here is an outline and cost.Arrive midday Saturday.Intro to the horses and set up camps.If the kids want to sleep in the tipi together it can probably hold about to kids.Obviously they can check it out and see if this is where they want to sleep.Temperatures drop here at nightAnd on saturday and sunday it's in the mid seventies and sunny and degrees at night.So definately bring enough clothing , sleeping bags and blankest to stay warm.Hike to the back country.Immideately behind our place is the BLM ( public land)There is a beautiful creek area with caves, some of which we can go in and further away is a stunning area with huge rocks and mountains with pine trees on top of the mountainsThere is sage too and I suggest everyone pick a little sage to make a sage bundle which *** can show how to do in a native way*** can also teach how to make a prayer tie which has colored bundles of tobacoo on a string like a necklaceI thought this could represent the years of your daughters life so far.We can serve an organic vegetarian dinner such as pesto pasta with salad and garlic breadFruit salad for desertWill you be bringing a birthday cake? We can substitute birthday cakes for fruit salad if you don't want to deal with bringing a cake.Sunday morning we will serve breakfast, organic oatmeal with fruit and tea and coffee.In the morning we can do a beautiful horse ceremony with your daughter involving the horses where she will be honored by everyone at this transitional time of her life coming into womanhoodI thought she can be led into the space on riding ***Shee can wear her prayer tie or put it around ***She can do a freestyle ceremonial movement together with Silver, ( I can coach her before hand) and everyone can be a part of it by playing percussion, singing, and/or giving her a specail message and some kind of symboic gift she can take with her into this next stage of her life.Nico can do a blessing either saturday night or early sunday as he has to leave sunday for a previous appointment.I will have my assistant arriving sat night to help out on sunday.After we have done your daughters ceremony we can offer lunch.Home made organic butternut squash soup and french bread with SaladWith organic fruit.We can be done around 130-2pm.It takes about 31/hrs to get here depending on traffic.This is our address*** *** *** ***
*** ** ***Once you get to Old mine rd, go to the end about 3/mileYou will see our sign, Turn Right here and go to the end about a minute or so you will see our entrance, drive through and you can unload and repark.I am pulling in a team to help with the weekend and will need a financial committment from you before we go shopping etc.I have kept the cost down as much as possible and have divided it per head, adults and kids the same.For to people $per person.For to people $per person.This includes campsite accommodations, outdoor shower and porta potty.Three vegetarian freshly prepared organic mealsDinner, Breakfast and Lunch.Guided Hike Sage bundling and prayer ties with ***, everyone will go home with a prayer tie and sage bundleMaterails included althought it would be great ifyou bring Tobacco for *** as it is a tradition to give tobacco to the native elder for his teachings.Horse activities, decorating *** and *** for your daughters ceremony ( I have feathers) which the other kids can be involved in(Doesn't include riding for the other kidsI don't have enough assistants to do the riding safely and *** is out of practice so I feel better with horse activities on the ground, athough your daughter will make an entrance on *** if she wants to).Bring, enough camp gear for to people if the others will be in the tipiBedding and sleeping bagsTobaccoYour daughter will need an outfit of some kindTotal dress up for her ceremonySomething she really loves but hardly wearsSun hats, it is very sunny! Flashlights, it gets very dark at night!We are off grid so no electricity! Although we have solar wi fi.I can take some really great photos or have my assistant take great photos if you like and can include thisI can email you the files after.I suggest you bring vid camera tooComfortable shoes to hike in.How to pay.I have a venmo account ***-*** or a *** account ***@silverhorse.orgIf you can pay a deposit of $between you or full amount, and the rest in cash or check when you arrive that will be great.Let me know if you have any questions, and if this will work for your groupWe will go shipping on Friday and I need to cnform with my assitant as she will be coming in from LA***!Best *** followed by confirmation from *** with a deposit payment of $via *** on October 10th and the remaining balance of $1’on October 15th Total payment received $1’600 Bank Account Completed -$1,100.00 USD $-$1,$0.02 USD Archive Oct 15, Payment from *** *** Completed $1,100.00 USD $$1,$1,100.02 USD Archive Oct 11, Transfer to Bank Account Completed -$500.00 USD $-$$0.02 USD Archive Oct 10, Payment from *** *** Completed $500.00 USD $$$500.02 USD Archive Oct 9, Transfer to Negotiating price based on number of people in *** ***’s party: *** *** to "*** ***" October 12th 2017 Hi ***, we are at people as of now, adults and kids.$each is ok, sorry for all the changes. On Oct 12, 2017, at 2:PM, *** *** wrote: Hi *** confirming your party of arrive saturday noon and leave Sunday 2pm.$deposit paid t*** you.Balance of $1'due.Payable by check or cashCheck made out to *** ***.Any changes,ie or less people total @each = $1800, $1'payment due.*** ***! Looking forward!*** ***PS reminder of our address that GPS will take you to a different location on our street so once on Old Mine,follow road to the end when you see our sign, turn right.Drive a minute or so until you see our entrance and drive through. *** *** ***
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*** ---- On Wed, Oct 22:25:-*** *** wrote ---- Hi ***, was nice talking to you today, have a confirmed people, if someone isnot coming, we’ll pay more.The cheesecake is actually a great idea after-all,please, let me know if anything is needed from LA besides tobacco. On Oct 11, 2017, at 1:PM, *** *** wrote: Hi ***,Got your message and your deposit t*** you!If we are down to people I will need to add on a little,like $per person x people =instead of @each.I hope this is OK.If its less than say or people then it will need to be $a head.You can buy tobacco anywhere they sell cigarettes, Native spirit is good or any brand is OK.PLease let me know if you want us to pick up a cake or if yo uwill be bringing one.I was thinking a plain cheesecake with slices of fruit on itBut your callLet me know,***, we are very excited to have you guys come out.*** *** Here is the email exchange post event: Post event email thread regarding customer’s concerns regarding the customized horse rites of passage for *** *** and party of 8. ---- On Tue, Oct 18:35:-*** wrote ---- Hi ***, *** you for your hospitality over the weekend.We had a great time hiking and petting the horses.Please, let me know if you are interested in more detailed feedback about our stay and i’ll be happy to provide. There was some comunnication issues that I think need to be resolvedespecially related to riding *** and the expectation we had about the horses that weren’t met.I will be also posting the detailed public reviews on ***, *** and ***. Have a great week. Best, ***Sent from my *** On Oct 17, 2017, at 7:PM, *** *** wrote: Hi ***,I just called you and left you a message.I'm sorry you are disappointed.I felt I was clear about the riding situation,here is an excert from my original emailHeads up with the horses.I've retired *** from riding, and *** and *** passed.*** is the only riding horses I have.And it might be too much for everyone to ride her.If you are OK with the girls hanging with the horses, brushing, petting, and I have a new horse, Corazon, a mustang, who loves hugs.When *** was riding ***, *** was jumpy, she is super sensitive and any pressure on her sides makes her go faster.I really didn't feel it was safe to put any of the other kids on herI don't have any riding helmets and I didn't have the necassary waivers on hand for parents to sign either in regards to the kids ridingI felt it would probably be OK for *** to ride her becasue I remember her being pretty good.Also I was under the understanding we were going to the ceremony for *** which she didn't wantI honestly tried to make the best of the situation and I apologize if you're expectations weren't met. If you are open I'd like to offer you a family constellation session which we could do on the phone with the intention of supporting your familyWe would need to plan an hourI hope you accept,it was really nice meeting you all, *** ***PS you left your coffe mugAnd *** mentioned she wanted to come and stay and look after the horses for meI never got her contact #.I'm going to LA in December and wanted to seeif this is something she might want to do for a weekend or daysIf you can pass the message along to her and have her contact me if she is interested I'd be gratefulAlso I'm around tomorrow if you want to talk on the phone. *** *** ***
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*** ---- On Tue, Oct 20:20:-*** *** wrote ---- Hi ***, my name is *** not ***-Yes, I wasn’t clear about riding on the horses, what I was clear about is the kids taking turnsand riding on ***- the only one available horse and that was not provided at all.*** is the only riding horses I have.which I responded taking turns on riding *** should be enough The ONLY reason why we came to your retreat its for the horse riding, everything else was secondaryIm not sure I understand what we paid the $1600/night for.It’ll be very helpful if you could send us the price breakdown.It couldn’t possibly be the *** naming ceremony, or the few pictures your assistant took.I am so confused and misled by our communication, I think its actually betterto keep it in the email format, so I have some sort of reasonable record of what we are talking about.I could’ve stay in the luxury hotel with the horses for the same price if not less in the area.I did pass the the info to ***, so she will be contacting you directly. On Oct 18, 2017, at 2:PM, *** *** wrote: Hi ***,I agree that communications were offEssentially we customized a horse rites of passage for your daughter to include all your guests.And obviously this is not what you wanted.Therefore I want to offer the kids an opportunity to come back and ride *** to get what you wantedWe can plan an afternoon or morning and if you want to camp over night you’re welcome too.I know it’s along way for you to come but there are other great places to visit nearby, like Julian, Borrego Springs, the Palomar observatory and a state park hot springs so maybe you could make it a great time out from the city.If you want to do this let’s plan it for this year as I will be changing things up here next year and will not be so available.As far as the costs for what you paid for, there are fixed costs involved:My team of two other peopleThe cost and care of the horsesThe foodThe two days preparing and the time you guys were here onsite exclusivelyWith all these costs in mind I broke it down to $a piece which included all the meals, and the activities proceeding the ceremony, which, unfortunately didn’t happen.I hope you will accept my offer and I look forward to seeing you and the kids again,best *** Email from *** *** to *** *** 10/18/17 Hi ***, Happy the fire didn’t spread out to your property and all are safe. We got our horseback riding trip for an extra charge elsewhere;sowe are not planning on being back any time soon, thank you for your offer. Here is the compatible accommodations in your area with the horses, so you get a sense of what the prices are. ***
Just to be clear, its not just the horsesthe whole experience was very frustrating, starting with the crossing of the manure ditch and the smell, not having the sink to wash the hands.Not able to see when *** was showing us how to knot because it was so dark. Bathroom being so far away and too small to share with other people. We don’t need it to be *** ***, just reasonable warning would be great. Also, I would think that it won’t be more than $for the food with prepfor the three simple meals with the ingredients from the *** ***, please, correct me if I’m wrong ***. I am very grateful for your hospitality, however it is not my responsibility to pay for your expenses on the property including the horse care and food It is not my intention to escalate, but I am asking for the $refund for my stay, which is half of what I paid. Even $a night is too much for what we got for the price. you are welcome to keep the mug. Email from *** *** to *** *** sent 10/19/17 I’m sorry we don’t offer monetary refunds for services rendered. Just to be clear here is the breakdown of the costs for your customized horse rites of passage ceremony weekend specifically for your daughter and to cater and accommodate your group of eight total. Planning/organizing/admin.*** 4hrs @ $= $120*** assistant $x 6hrs travel time and gas = $90*** assistant onsite $x hrs =$140*** shopping for food and crafts $x hrs = $240Cost of food, propane, and craft materials$250 Friday Assistant help with preparing for group onsite and clean up $x = $100*** Saturday morning meal preparation for meals $x = $150*** onsite with group of Saturday afternoon and eveningIncludes catering, and activities in preparation for daughter’s ceremony on Sunday.$x = $270*** onsite Sunday catering and preparing for ceremony including horse activities. $x hrs = $240Camping $x =$200Horse cost $200Total $2’000I took off camping cost $and horse cost $to accommodate your budget totaling $1’600 I normally charge more for my services and *** graciously gifted you the naming ceremonyHe also wasn’t paid for assisting me all day on Saturday until he left at 9pm. As far as washing your hands there were two places set for this, where the bathtub was by the tipi and outside the porta pottyI also provided hand sanitizing solution. We are a horse ranch so horse poop is part of being hereThere was a side road which you could have taken to avoid stepping over the poopIf I had known this was an issue for you I would have shown you. The plan on Saturday was based around your group arriving at noonWhat happened is the complete group was several hours late which set everything behindWe would have had more light to do the knots inside the yurt you were talking about and I was on my over with batteries and more lighting for the yurt when I met you on your way out. I’m sorry your experience was not a good oneAll of our guests that come to work with me and the horses here have been satisfied with their experience here and the services we offer*** told me it was the best nights sleep she’d ever had and that’s why she told me she wanted to returnWe provided a spiritual experience for your daughter and party of in honoring her rites of passage. The horse riding aspect was specifically offered to your daughter in relationship to honor her in her ceremony. Our horses are not recreational riding horses but in this situation *** was allowing *** to ride herAnd this was riding that is led and supported in a safe way. Hope this clarifies everything,*** ***

Thank you, I read the response from [redacted].In a series of emails that followed her dissatisfaction of being here, (which I previously sent you)  with her party of eight for a customized horse ceremony for her daughter’s twelth birthday she asked for what she had paid for, which was $1’600 total priced at $200 per head as we had agreed before they arrived and of which she paid $500 as a deposit and $1100 in arrival via [redacted]. The budget breakdown which I sent her afterwards shows that it was a $2’000 customized retreat but that I had taken off 20% to meet her budget. I deducted the fee for the horses and for the camping.Firstly, she never paid 2k cash which is what she claimed she paid in her one star review on our [redacted] business page, [redacted] page and [redacted] page and secondly, we never agreed in giving the kids four or more hours of riding which is what she publicly said she expected on our [redacted] business page, our [redacted] page and our [redacted] page. I had made very clear our horses are not used for recreational means, such as pony rides etc. They are used for therapy on the ground and for ceremonies. I explained to her in the email I sent that the two horses who used to give children’s horse rides had passed of old age and the only horse that would be Ok for the ceremony for her daughter to ride would be [redacted]. But that for [redacted] to give all the other children rides would not happen because [redacted] is out of practice and this is not how we use our horses. [redacted] decided to come anyway and paid the deposit after I sent her the outline contract of events that we would customize for her party of eight.When the party arrived they were several hours late and we had planned a hike for them where we would gather sage as part of the preparation for their ceremony the following day. Only three out of the eight in the party came on the hike. All the children decided they didn’t want to come and preferred to be on their [redacted] in the tipi.Of course we have wash stations, there are two outdoors, one outside the porta potty with soap and water and hand sanitizer as well as hand wipes. And one station where we have our outdoor bathroom. I had hand sanitizer on hand at all times. We also have a hand basin with hot water inside a trailer which is available.I was told by [redacted] in an early email that the children were well behaved. The truth is that her daughter refused to co operate and it is not our job to make her daughter accept her rites of passage ceremony. We were prepared but [redacted]’s daughter wasn’t. We provided everything which was asked of us and which was outlined in the contract. When the time came for [redacted]’s daughter to get ready for her ceremony, she refused. [redacted] told me that she was calling the ceremony off because her daughter ’doesn’t do spiritual’ and that she just wanted to ride the horse. I was not prepared for this last minute change of plan. But I accommodated the daughter and mother’s request by modifying the daughter’s experience on [redacted] by leading her on [redacted] and doing this with my assistant and myself. [redacted] was jumpy and I felt it was unsafe to allow all the other children to ride her which is not what we do and what we agreed to anyway. [redacted] brought a beautiful gateway made of feathers which she told us took her five hours for her to make. The plan was for her daughter to either walk through it or ride through it on [redacted]. We never even got to test it out because her daughter refused to have anything to do with it. Another mother who came pleaded with the daughter to say yes to the ceremony as everyone there was there for her and had driven a long way to be a part of her rites of passage ceremony. The daughter still refused.We were all there to celebrate and participate in [redacted]’s daughter ’s rites of passage horse ceremony. We had spoken on the phone about what this would look like and on Sunday morning we sat at the breakfast table and outlined the plan.This is similar to a couple paying for a wedding ceremony and one of the couple deciding not to get married. All our horses are rescues and most of them are very old. We have six total. Horses cost money in feeding and taking care of them. Our business has been created around what the horses can do. I feel it is extremely unfair for [redacted] to demand money back when we did what we were asked to do. It is unfair to compare us to other local horse businesses because nobody customizes horse ceremonies. We have an area where we compost the horse poop. It doesn’t smell and we have almost no flies. We use the fertilizer for our trees.I am part of a healing community. [redacted] and her husband are part of this community. I reached out to the community to see if it’s possible [redacted] would sit and talk with me and we can resolve this problem in a counsel. [redacted] refused my offer of a half day of horse activities for her children and I also offered her a therapeutic session which she refused.If you read the emails she sent me after her retreat she has a bullying and threatening tone insinuating if I don’t refund her money etc etc she will write negative reviews. She wrote lies (which I can prove) publicly on our business sites. She has a history and reputation of writing negative one star reviews about other people in the healing arts and one about a hot springs if you look at her [redacted] profile. I have not heard from anyone else in her party, her husband who I helped with his back pain and her friend, a mother and yoga teacher who told me that she had the best nights sleep she’d ever had. Her husband loved the food saying how great the garlic bread was and pasta and her children loved the cheesecake. It is my feeling that [redacted] was humiliated because her daughter rejected her ceremony and misplaced her anger at me and my team and our horse business. I never signed up my friends to post negative reviews of her business. I did ask advice from friends and clients as to the best way to deal with the threats and bullying I was receiving from [redacted] in her emails, demanding her money back which is not our policy to refund money for services rendered.I wish [redacted] and her family well, I’m sorry that it didn’t go the way in which they would have liked it too. In all our years of business this has been the only person who has complained. I’d like to be done with this and  leave it here, thank you.  Sincerely [redacted]