Initial Business Response /* (1000, 5, 2015/07/13) */
July 13, 2015
Regarding July 8th, 2015 Complaint:
Revdex.com Complaint Case #: XXXXXXXX
Consumer: [redacted]
Response:
On June 1st, 2015 after several discussions with her salesman [redacted] of what she was looking for and what she was...
hoping to achieve, [redacted] was sent a proposal (please see attached) to replace her old [redacted] skylights with new non-operable [redacted] skylights. The new skylights could not be replaced with the same model of skylight as those were a number of years out of production and [redacted] no longer supports the parts and requires that they be replaced and not repaired by their 5 star dealer's.
[redacted] took great efforts to let [redacted] know that the new skylights would be larger than her existing opening. This disclosure of size difference is on her contract and she further acknowledges that it was discussed in the body of her complaint. She was not ever told that she "wouldn't know the difference" because there is a slight difference and she was even told how big that difference would be on her contract. Her contract content is only three sentences long and the third sentence says "...slight difference (two inches thinner)." [redacted]'s complaint shows that what she is unhappy about is exactly what she was told the difference would be "...there is a 1" gap between the existing trim box and the new skylights all around that is empty space." [redacted] anticipated the one inch on both sides and informed her verbally and in writing that the total difference would be two inches on the interior and exterior. This was all based on the non-operable skylight option. [redacted] also did mention during their discussions in May, prior to having received our proposal that resizing the shaft is certainly an available option but it does incur additional costs, which [redacted] declined, which is why [redacted] took the time to talk to her about and include in the contract that there would be a visible size difference. [redacted]'s choice to not resize her shaft is in fact fairly common among our customers because of the additional costs but is also why we make sure they know there is going to be a difference.
On Jun 19th after the proposal had been signed and the arrangements made for install of the non-operable skylights our installation tech came to [redacted] home ready to do the install. At that time [redacted] began to question our tech on other skylight options. [redacted] had her contact our office where she wanted info on other skylight options. [redacted] was in the field so [redacted] in our office picked up this call and discussed what other options are in fact out there as far as other models go. [redacted] decided while our tech was still waiting, to go with an operable skylight. How the different skylights are installed and made water tight is the same, however [redacted] had not suggested an operable skylight only because with the difference in sizes the screen can't be taken out if the skylight shaft is a different size. Most people don't take out the screens anyway but it would look different and would have made installing the simple trim mentioned on her contract look odd. Our tech based on her wishes had to leave the site, go and pick up the different skylights and was still able to install what she wanted on the same day. The install should have taken eight to nine hours but with the delays took nearly thirteen. Our tech went to great lengths to give her what she wanted on the day it was scheduled to happen.
As to [redacted]'s concern about bugs or leaking. The skylights installed in such a way as to be leakproof, her install includes a 10 yr manufacturer's guarantee and a 5 year workmanship guarantee providing no one else has tampered with our work. She will not have a leaking issue. There will be no bug issue because our tech sealed that gap all the way around on the inside of the shaft that granted [redacted] can't see, with ice and water shield. There is not a gap from her skylights into her attic space.
The "up-to" $500.00 each to resize [redacted]'s skylights is just that. Up-to and not exceeding that amount depending on the conditions we can't see on the other side of the shaft. It could be less and we'd only have charged our cost as was promised to gain her satisfaction which is always our goal. This price however was not to add simple trim, which we would have done, but to completely remove the existing shaft and enlarge it to completely line up with the new skylights. Neither doing this or not doing this affects the operation of the operable skylight. It will operate as designed with the smaller shaft.
Although we are disappointed and saddened that [redacted]'s end result was not exactly what she seems to have wanted, despite the strong efforts of our staff to clearly communication that there would in fact be a difference in size, we feel we have taken every possible measure verbally and in writing to accommodate her changing requirements. [redacted] made every effort we can ask of to make her aware of the various outcomes before ever starting work. She repeatedly acknowledges that we told her that there would be a difference in size and for her own reasons ignored that if there is a size difference on the outside of the skylight there is absolutely going to be a difference on the inside as well. There is no possible situation where that is not going to be true. Resizing the shaft is not at all standard; it is done solely at the preference of the customer and is clearly bid to be included as an additional cost of work on the customer contract. Many choose not to have this added cost on a replacement. We don't give an exact price for resizing the shaft unless the customer shows a strong interest in adding that work to the bid, so often that part of negotiations is quite short and we move on. When customers do not want the shaft resized the anticipated difference in size is noted on the contract. We did everything we said we would plus more. We do not pressure customers ever to take on upgrades they don't show an interest in. [redacted] is asking that we pay for work that she rejected as an added cost back in May. We always let customers know that it is an option however. If they don't show an interest we take the time to explain that there is a small difference in size that is visible which we clearly did. [redacted] wasn't interested during the bidding process in having the skylights resized as an added cost, now she wants us to pay for it after the fact.
Initial Consumer Rebuttal /* (3000, 7, 2015/07/16) */
(The consumer indicated he/she DID NOT accept the response from the business.)
In response to, [redacted] also did mention during their discussions in May, prior to having received our proposal that resizing the shaft is certainly an available option but it does incur additional costs, which [redacted] declined, which is why [redacted] took the time to talk to her about and include in the contract that there would be a visible size difference", the contract states, "Please note: the newer skylights will require simple trim (included) due to the different installation technique and slight size difference (two inches thinner)." It specifically states it is "included." It does not say that is for the exterior only.
The statement that, [redacted] had not suggested an operable skylight only because with the difference in sizes the screen can't be taken out if the skylight shaft is a different size" is absolutely not true. The reason he did not mention it was because it did not come up because I initially said I wanted stationary skylights when he asked me if I wanted stationary or operable. We did not have a discussion about an operable skylight.
I also take issue with your comment that [redacted] mentioned during our discussions in May, "prior to having received our proposal that resizing the shaft is certainly an available option but it does incur additional costs, which [redacted] declined, which is why [redacted] took the time to talk to her about and include in the contract that there would be a visible size difference." I took very detailed notes on our discussion. My question was what would it look like and I was told that they make it look natural that I would not be able to tell the difference. He explained how they work on the exterior to make it look right. We never had a discussion regarding how the interior would look.
As far as the bugs, as I explained to [redacted] it is not the outside bugs that concern me, it is the inside bugs, flies, spiders, etc. that are always hanging around that skylight - on the inside. They gravitate to that upstairs skylight - especially flying insects. As to leaks, I am glad to know you have a lot of confidence in the skylights, but things can happen.
Yes, I acknowledged that they told me there would be a difference in size. Your statement that, "for her own reasons (she) ignored that if there is a size difference on the outside of the skylight there is absolutely going to be a difference on the inside as well", is unreasonable. I did not decide to ignore it. I am not a skylight specialist, I am not a contractor and perhaps you could say I am ignorant or stupid because I don't know how these things work. It is why I believe it needed to be explained to me by a specialist - including what I would need to do on the interior which was not discussed. I don't think a company should assume that a client knows everything about their products, how they are installed and what the impact of any and all the differences would be.
I also want to acknowledge that your installer went to great lengths for me. He did and he was very professional. It was a pleasure working with him.
Final Business Response /* (4000, 26, 2015/10/14) */
The customer and Skylight Specialists began corresponding directly and came to an agreement. The customer has paid the agreed upon price.
Unfortunately, Mr. [redacted]'s drywall was in fact delayed by our drywaller. Whom we have since released from our service. Upon discovering the issue with Mr. [redacted] on November 1st we hired a new drywaller and gave him Mr. [redacted]'s information as well as apologized for the delay. [redacted]...
[redacted] tried to contact Mr. [redacted] on Nov 1. We followed up on Nov 2nd and 6th and [redacted] told us that Mr. [redacted] was not returning his attempts to communicate. On Nov 7the [redacted] was able to reach Mr. [redacted] and at that time Mr. [redacted] said the work had been completed by his handyman. When Mr. [redacted] let us know that we deducted $350.00 off of his invoice for the texture work that hadn't been done and his invoice was sent. Until the Revdex.com complaint on Nov 7th we were not given any information on who had completed the work or what they had charged so that we could work that out with Mr. [redacted]. The amount invoiced to Mr. [redacted] by his handyman includes painting and based on the amount he is giving possibly some other small work. The only work not done by our company that was part of our agreement is the finishing texture. Our rate for that is $350.00 which again we immediately took off of his billing. Considering the time frame I am very willing to add an additional $150.00 off as a customer service discount to Mr. [redacted] for the finishing delay but his request for over nine hundred dollars for finishing work only is well beyond industry rates. If his handyman did bill him over nine hundred dollars to put texture on already hung drywall he should question his handyman for excessive billing. The remaining balance on the project is $3261.70, we have already deducted $350.00 which left the balance at $2911.70 and I am will to remove another $150.00 from that for the delay in completion which leaves the remaining balance at $2761.70.
Initial Business Response /* (1000, 5, 2015/07/13) */
July 13, 2015
Regarding July 8th, 2015 Complaint:
Revdex.com Complaint Case #: XXXXXXXX
Consumer: [redacted]
Response:
On June 1st, 2015 after several discussions with her salesman [redacted] of what she was looking for and what she was...
hoping to achieve, [redacted] was sent a proposal (please see attached) to replace her old [redacted] skylights with new non-operable [redacted] skylights. The new skylights could not be replaced with the same model of skylight as those were a number of years out of production and [redacted] no longer supports the parts and requires that they be replaced and not repaired by their 5 star dealer's.
[redacted] took great efforts to let [redacted] know that the new skylights would be larger than her existing opening. This disclosure of size difference is on her contract and she further acknowledges that it was discussed in the body of her complaint. She was not ever told that she "wouldn't know the difference" because there is a slight difference and she was even told how big that difference would be on her contract. Her contract content is only three sentences long and the third sentence says "...slight difference (two inches thinner)." [redacted]'s complaint shows that what she is unhappy about is exactly what she was told the difference would be "...there is a 1" gap between the existing trim box and the new skylights all around that is empty space." [redacted] anticipated the one inch on both sides and informed her verbally and in writing that the total difference would be two inches on the interior and exterior. This was all based on the non-operable skylight option. [redacted] also did mention during their discussions in May, prior to having received our proposal that resizing the shaft is certainly an available option but it does incur additional costs, which [redacted] declined, which is why [redacted] took the time to talk to her about and include in the contract that there would be a visible size difference. [redacted]'s choice to not resize her shaft is in fact fairly common among our customers because of the additional costs but is also why we make sure they know there is going to be a difference.
On Jun 19th after the proposal had been signed and the arrangements made for install of the non-operable skylights our installation tech came to [redacted] home ready to do the install. At that time [redacted] began to question our tech on other skylight options. [redacted] had her contact our office where she wanted info on other skylight options. [redacted] was in the field so [redacted] in our office picked up this call and discussed what other options are in fact out there as far as other models go. [redacted] decided while our tech was still waiting, to go with an operable skylight. How the different skylights are installed and made water tight is the same, however [redacted] had not suggested an operable skylight only because with the difference in sizes the screen can't be taken out if the skylight shaft is a different size. Most people don't take out the screens anyway but it would look different and would have made installing the simple trim mentioned on her contract look odd. Our tech based on her wishes had to leave the site, go and pick up the different skylights and was still able to install what she wanted on the same day. The install should have taken eight to nine hours but with the delays took nearly thirteen. Our tech went to great lengths to give her what she wanted on the day it was scheduled to happen.
As to [redacted]'s concern about bugs or leaking. The skylights installed in such a way as to be leakproof, her install includes a 10 yr manufacturer's guarantee and a 5 year workmanship guarantee providing no one else has tampered with our work. She will not have a leaking issue. There will be no bug issue because our tech sealed that gap all the way around on the inside of the shaft that granted [redacted] can't see, with ice and water shield. There is not a gap from her skylights into her attic space.
The "up-to" $500.00 each to resize [redacted]'s skylights is just that. Up-to and not exceeding that amount depending on the conditions we can't see on the other side of the shaft. It could be less and we'd only have charged our cost as was promised to gain her satisfaction which is always our goal. This price however was not to add simple trim, which we would have done, but to completely remove the existing shaft and enlarge it to completely line up with the new skylights. Neither doing this or not doing this affects the operation of the operable skylight. It will operate as designed with the smaller shaft.
Although we are disappointed and saddened that [redacted]'s end result was not exactly what she seems to have wanted, despite the strong efforts of our staff to clearly communication that there would in fact be a difference in size, we feel we have taken every possible measure verbally and in writing to accommodate her changing requirements. [redacted] made every effort we can ask of to make her aware of the various outcomes before ever starting work. She repeatedly acknowledges that we told her that there would be a difference in size and for her own reasons ignored that if there is a size difference on the outside of the skylight there is absolutely going to be a difference on the inside as well. There is no possible situation where that is not going to be true. Resizing the shaft is not at all standard; it is done solely at the preference of the customer and is clearly bid to be included as an additional cost of work on the customer contract. Many choose not to have this added cost on a replacement. We don't give an exact price for resizing the shaft unless the customer shows a strong interest in adding that work to the bid, so often that part of negotiations is quite short and we move on. When customers do not want the shaft resized the anticipated difference in size is noted on the contract. We did everything we said we would plus more. We do not pressure customers ever to take on upgrades they don't show an interest in. [redacted] is asking that we pay for work that she rejected as an added cost back in May. We always let customers know that it is an option however. If they don't show an interest we take the time to explain that there is a small difference in size that is visible which we clearly did. [redacted] wasn't interested during the bidding process in having the skylights resized as an added cost, now she wants us to pay for it after the fact.
Initial Consumer Rebuttal /* (3000, 7, 2015/07/16) */
(The consumer indicated he/she DID NOT accept the response from the business.)
In response to, [redacted] also did mention during their discussions in May, prior to having received our proposal that resizing the shaft is certainly an available option but it does incur additional costs, which [redacted] declined, which is why [redacted] took the time to talk to her about and include in the contract that there would be a visible size difference", the contract states, "Please note: the newer skylights will require simple trim (included) due to the different installation technique and slight size difference (two inches thinner)." It specifically states it is "included." It does not say that is for the exterior only.
The statement that, [redacted] had not suggested an operable skylight only because with the difference in sizes the screen can't be taken out if the skylight shaft is a different size" is absolutely not true. The reason he did not mention it was because it did not come up because I initially said I wanted stationary skylights when he asked me if I wanted stationary or operable. We did not have a discussion about an operable skylight.
I also take issue with your comment that [redacted] mentioned during our discussions in May, "prior to having received our proposal that resizing the shaft is certainly an available option but it does incur additional costs, which [redacted] declined, which is why [redacted] took the time to talk to her about and include in the contract that there would be a visible size difference." I took very detailed notes on our discussion. My question was what would it look like and I was told that they make it look natural that I would not be able to tell the difference. He explained how they work on the exterior to make it look right. We never had a discussion regarding how the interior would look.
As far as the bugs, as I explained to [redacted] it is not the outside bugs that concern me, it is the inside bugs, flies, spiders, etc. that are always hanging around that skylight - on the inside. They gravitate to that upstairs skylight - especially flying insects. As to leaks, I am glad to know you have a lot of confidence in the skylights, but things can happen.
Yes, I acknowledged that they told me there would be a difference in size. Your statement that, "for her own reasons (she) ignored that if there is a size difference on the outside of the skylight there is absolutely going to be a difference on the inside as well", is unreasonable. I did not decide to ignore it. I am not a skylight specialist, I am not a contractor and perhaps you could say I am ignorant or stupid because I don't know how these things work. It is why I believe it needed to be explained to me by a specialist - including what I would need to do on the interior which was not discussed. I don't think a company should assume that a client knows everything about their products, how they are installed and what the impact of any and all the differences would be.
I also want to acknowledge that your installer went to great lengths for me. He did and he was very professional. It was a pleasure working with him.
Final Business Response /* (4000, 26, 2015/10/14) */
The customer and Skylight Specialists began corresponding directly and came to an agreement. The customer has paid the agreed upon price.
Unfortunately, Mr. [redacted]'s drywall was in fact delayed by our drywaller. Whom we have since released from our service. Upon discovering the issue with Mr. [redacted] on November 1st we hired a new drywaller and gave him Mr. [redacted]'s information as well as apologized for the delay. [redacted]...
[redacted] tried to contact Mr. [redacted] on Nov 1. We followed up on Nov 2nd and 6th and [redacted] told us that Mr. [redacted] was not returning his attempts to communicate. On Nov 7the [redacted] was able to reach Mr. [redacted] and at that time Mr. [redacted] said the work had been completed by his handyman. When Mr. [redacted] let us know that we deducted $350.00 off of his invoice for the texture work that hadn't been done and his invoice was sent. Until the Revdex.com complaint on Nov 7th we were not given any information on who had completed the work or what they had charged so that we could work that out with Mr. [redacted]. The amount invoiced to Mr. [redacted] by his handyman includes painting and based on the amount he is giving possibly some other small work. The only work not done by our company that was part of our agreement is the finishing texture. Our rate for that is $350.00 which again we immediately took off of his billing. Considering the time frame I am very willing to add an additional $150.00 off as a customer service discount to Mr. [redacted] for the finishing delay but his request for over nine hundred dollars for finishing work only is well beyond industry rates. If his handyman did bill him over nine hundred dollars to put texture on already hung drywall he should question his handyman for excessive billing. The remaining balance on the project is $3261.70, we have already deducted $350.00 which left the balance at $2911.70 and I am will to remove another $150.00 from that for the delay in completion which leaves the remaining balance at $2761.70.