Sound Heating & Air Conditioning

After years in the HVAC industry - It appears that we are at a crossroad and have to agree to disagree

The heating system that we designed and installed at the [redacted] residence is functioning as designed With that being said, it is not performing as designed due to errors by the home builder in the construction of the home To cut costs the builder eliminated the insulation between floor levels With the type of system we installed the insulation is imperative If your mechanic fills the gas tank of your car with water, how can you possibly blame the manufacturer of the vehicle We have informed the [redacted] family that our warranty is still partially valid if problems occur that are not related to the poor construction of the home The upper floor radiant tube is supposed to radiate upward only Without insulation below it, it is radiating downward faster than up, “path of least resistance” I feel bad for the [redacted] family, they have definitely been taken for a “ride”, but not by Sound Heating and Air Conditioning It is easy to prove our findings, insulate below one of the upper rooms and they will see that we did our job properly.We have performed several no charge warranty calls to the residence, to no avail As hard as we try, we can’t always fix the mistakes of othersCurtis H***

Sound Heating & Air Conditioning, Inc. is in receipt of this complaint. Our owner has decided to forward this matter to our attorney since the nature of the complaint is mostly false. We appreciate your concern in this matter. Please contact our office at 253-875-3350 if you need any further... assistance.

Complaint: [redacted] I am rejecting this response because: 1) I have photographic evidence that every wall inside this home is insulated above and beyond what "code" calls for with the exception of walls in our master suite (the pocket door to the toilet and the adjacent wall between the master bath and master closet.2) I returned 5-full packs of Rinsulation that we purchased to insulate the entire house including the joist-space between the floors.3) Randy, the brother of the Sound Heating's owner (and respondent to this complaint), Curtis, told us not to insulate between the floors because "heat rises." 4) We didn't "cut cost" on anything in this home, and much less on $1,or less of insulation.5) The statement "We have informed the [redacted] family that our warranty is still partially valid..." is completely and no one has communicated anything to us about our warranty.6) We still have a section of our heating that is not working on the lower floor where the argument for lack of insulation cannot be made as it's in slabI have notified Sound Heating about this and it is still not fixed because "no one will respond to [your house] without Curtis' "ok." - This was not address in Curtis' response here.7) Your findings are not easily proven as our master bedroom maintains a proper temperature at all times and has the exact same flooring sas the other bedrooms / bonus room that have heating issues.8) The builder is my wife's father - he's not going to "take her for a ride" when building her dream home.Curtis, we spoke on November 7th, in your office when you told me I owed you an extra $2,and that you had filed a lien on my home and wouldn't release it until that amount in dispute was paidI told you that however much I disagreed with owing you that money, you had me in a bind and I would pay that amount in full but I asked to pay $1,that next day and $1,after the holidays because Christmas was around the cornerI told you had my word and I never go back on that - you looked me in the eye and told me you would release the lien on my home after I came in to pay the $1,and that you trusted my wordWe shook on that I came in the next day as I told you I would and you demanded I sign a promissory noteI signed, because I gave you my word and a piece of paper wouldn't change thatYou then handed me a lien releasefor my father's propertyYou have no idea where I live, have never been there, and "***" meThen when the Attorney General's Officer and the Revdex.com contact you, you lie to them both in your responseI have not lied, and will not lie about the situation we are inEvery single other contractor we had a disagreement with was able to sort it out with us - sometimes we paid the extra, sometimes they came through and fixed the issueYOU, Curtis H***, have ruined something my wife and I thought we would enjoy so muchYour brother's mistake has detrimentally cost my family.Sincerely, [redacted] ***

Revdex.com:
I have reviewed the response made by the business in reference to complaint ID ***, and find that this resolution is satisfactory to me
Sincerely,
*** ***

I believe Mr*** has a valid point and I will be sending him a refund check today 2/10/17. I apologize that the matter was not handled better on our end. Kevin M*** Vice President

Ms *** responded to my letter dtd Dec 30, as well as the one I included from my lawyer She (Ms ***) advised that she would withhold any further posts against my company (Ireceived this by email on Jan 8, On jan 9, I received a request for the York Service Technician for some information regarding Ms ***'s equipment in question I provided the documents that I had available I informed Ms *** that I would be providing the documents to York and she thanked me and said that "sounds like a good plan" It appears that Chad from York/Johnson Controls Incis handling the situation with another heating co., Ms *** prefers that we not be involved in any repairs
In a nut shell, Ms *** heat pump broke - unfortunate yes - able to be blamed on Sound Heating - no way I sympathize with her, that her heat pump at a very bad time of year She should keep in mind I do not build heat pumps - I install them I am very sad I could not please her

To all involved I apologize for such a lengthy response; however I feel it is imperative to give a full explanation of how the system at the *** residence can be installed per design but yet not perform to the design When radiant tubing is used to heat multiple levels and multiple zones (more than one thermostat) each thermostat is to control the water flow to that area When temperature settings are satisfied (set point) the thermostat turns the water off to that area By not insulating between floors (floor joists, not walls) the heat will take the path of least resistance It is our opinion that the upper floor tubing is radiating enough heat downward (due to the lack of insulation between floors) that it is not only not heating the upper floor the way it is supposed to, but it is actually telling the lower floor thermostats that the lower floor needs no more heat (set point satisfied) Because the upper zone thermostat is not being satisfied quickly enough, the upper floor tubing would actually run too long and overheat the lower floor An illustration of this would be to have a light in the living room controlled by a light switch at the other end of the house The process of completing our obligations at the *** residence, have been arduous at best, but we persevered and completed the project Most companies would have walked away In hind sight, we probably should have Mr***'s rejection responses are numbered - Sound Heating responses are as follows: Any photographic evidence of all suspended tubing serving the upper floor, having insulation below it in the joist cavity - we are not aware of Please forward to our office The insulation that we are referring to, that is missing, is not code required, it is required if you have suspended tubing as a heating system (Industry standard) Exactly the same as the insulation required under a concrete slab that has tubing - to direct the heat to its intended destination No comment necessary Randy H*** is the brother of the owner Curtis H*** and never told anyone not to insulate between floors No comment necessary No comment necessary Mr***'s explanation of how the lower floor is not performing is exactly what we are explaining is the symptom of having no insulation between floors He is making our case for us Our findings are actually easily proven, with coordination between SHAC and the *** family We can select an area not performing properly The *** family can then hire an insulation contractor to inject insulation into one area only Once completed, that particular area upstairs and downstairs should begin performing correctly With this being said, it is very important that this be performed correctly If insulation is inadvertently placed between the tubing and area it is to serve, the problems with be compounded No response necessaryIn Mr***'s closing paragraphs, SHAC agrees with the upper paragraph but take exception with a portion of the last paragraph The *** family did owe extra money, I did allow a payment plan, and yes we shook on that When the ***s made the initial payment on the extra money owed they demanded that the lien be removed (prior to full payment) In the interest of cooperation, SHAC agreed to release the lien prior to full payment, but for its own protection then demanded a promissory note It seemed prudent to allow the ***'s to go to permanent mortgage from a construction loan and protect monies owed to Sound Heating (Now who broke their word?)Note: Had the inexperienced builder simply checked on the internet suspended floor tubing, it clearly shows proper insulation

Complaint: ***
I am rejecting this response because: Failed to inspect the propane system when on their billing receipt Mitch even wrote the igniter was the problem, not the gas supply.All the information needed to repair the hot water tank is on the side of the tanks cover and Mitch used this when he called "***" technical support! Between Mitch and the *** technician they , Mitch, had me order the mother board, Which was not the problem, it was a supply of gas problem he never botherd to check even after remove piping and admitting there was no GAS! Mitch told me it would be faster and less expensive since "SHAC" would add on their mark up and then the extra time to get the part back up to my place to be installed.I told Mitch the last time I knew we had gas was days prior before we left on vacationWe found the hot water not working when we returned, I never said I had checked the supply only I knew it was working when we had left on vacation days earlierI have documentation of my yearly propane fills, they are not auto fills, I call them in, and the amount lost due to the leak created by SHAC technician, the repair bill from "***" for fixing the leak at the hot water tank, and then an inspection of our propane dryer, no leaks! And we do not cook with propane! This contractor has lied about me being on auto-fill of my tanks, I'm not, cooking with gas, we do not, no information about the type of tank or repair manual as that is all on the side of the cover along with *** technical support hot line for trouble shooting which Mitch used to call *** tech support.They will not admit they incorrectly diagnosed the problem, had me order unnecessary parts, created gas leaks that could have become a serious and deadly problem, cost me hundreds of dollars in repairs and lost propane.I believe the "Department of labor and Industries" needs to review their business practices! And I want to compensated for the cost I accrued from their shoddy workmanship! Which was stated in my previous letter.My next step is contacting an attorney if this is not settled immediately, including the complete removal of any debt collection information from my record
Sincerely,
*** ***

The heating system that we designed and installed at the [redacted] residence is functioning as designed.  With that being said,  it is not performing as designed due to errors by the home builder in the construction of the home.  To cut costs the builder eliminated the insulation between...

floor levels.  With the type of system we installed the insulation is imperative.  If your mechanic fills the gas tank of your car with water, how can you possibly blame the manufacturer of the vehicle.  We have informed the [redacted] family that our warranty is still partially valid if problems occur  that are not related to the poor construction of the home.  The upper floor radiant tube is supposed to radiate upward only.  Without insulation below it, it is radiating downward faster than up, “path of least resistance”.  I feel bad for the [redacted] family, they have definitely been taken for a “ride”, but not by Sound Heating and Air Conditioning.  It is easy to prove our findings, insulate below one of the upper rooms and they will see that we did our job properly.We have performed several no charge warranty calls to the residence, to no avail.  As hard as we try, we can’t always fix the mistakes of others. Curtis H[redacted]

Complaint: [redacted]I am rejecting this response because: your response is unacceptable. We do not agree to disagree. The amount of time you have "in the HVAC industry" is irrelevant and does not, unfortunately, preclude you from providing unsatisfactory customer service, which is what you have done in this instance. It is apparent from other reviews and complaints filed on this site and others that in your "30 years" you have failed to provide even adequate service on a consistent basis. Sincerely,[redacted]

Sound Heating & Air Conditioning, Inc. is in receipt of this complaint. Our owner has decided to forward this matter to our attorney since the nature of the complaint is mostly false. We appreciate your concern in this matter. Please contact our office at 253-875-3350 if you need any further...

assistance.

Dec 3, 2015 - Homeowner scheduled  a service call with Sound Heating for a"no heat"  We arrived at the scheduled time, waited, and the homeowner was a No Show.  
Homeowners called back and rescheduled for Jan 5, 2016.  Our service Technician arrived, went into the attic and did...

some testing on the furnace.  The problems were with the coil that was added after our installation by another Heating Company (April 2015)  
 
The technician explained this to the homeowners - they should call the company that added the coil to our furnace and Goodman Air Conditioner.  The fee that was charged for this visit is for a diagnostic only.  There were no repairs made - that would have been additional to the diagnostic charge.  
Our diagnostic fee is standard for the industry.  We charge this to go out and diagnose issues.  Repairs, parts etc....are charged in addition to this diagnostic fee.  
It appears that the other Heating company went out to this residence after we diagnosed the issue and under their  warranty repaired their mistake at no charge to the homeowner.  
It appears there was a repair necessary and was completed by the Company that caused the problem.  Since we only did a diagnostic they got a diagnostic and a repair for the price of just the diagnostic.  I think they did pretty good.  If any reimbursement is warranted it should be from the other company (the one that caused the problem)

Complaint: [redacted]I am rejecting this response because:
First, we did not schedule a service call 12/3 because we were not at home. We both work. We specifically stated that the time would not work for us, and were told we would receive a call back to schedule another time. We did not receive a call until the technician was at the house waiting for a appointment that we never made.
Second: The repairs that were done by Taylor (who installed the A/C) had nothing to do with the A/C unit or A/C unit installation. Taylor corrected your incorrect installation of the heater as done by Sound. The corrections they made specifically indicate (on the invoice that was provided to Sound) that there were no problems with the A/C Coil as diagnosed by the Sound technician.
Sound made an incorrect diagnosis and refuses to acknowledge it. As indicated in your (Sound) response, "it appears there was a repair necessary and was completed by the Company that caused the problem". The problem was with the heater and corresponding installation. Not with the A/C.  The response from Sound of "I think they did pretty good" referring to the fact that Taylor did not charge us, is offensive. The statement from Sound that "our diagnostic fee is standard to the industry" is irrelevant. We had zero problem paying the fee under the assumption that the issue was with the A/C. We understand that had you actually completed any work on the unit it would have been in addition to the flat rate diagnostic fee. The issue that we have is that we paid that fee for an incorrect diagnosis of the problem.
In short Taylor fixed the problem with Sound's installation and unit. We provided proof that the work performed by Taylor was not related to the A/C unit or installation of said unit. The work that was completed by Taylor could have easily been completed by Sound as it was done w/in a normal timeframe for a service and no materials or parts were used. The work completed by Taylor that restored heat to our home should have been completed by Sound as the issue was not related to the A/C unit or installation in any way. Again, Taylor did not cause any problems, they only fixed the problems caused by Sound.
Sincerely,[redacted]

After 30 years in the HVAC industry - It appears that we are at a crossroad and have to agree to disagree.

Complaint: [redacted]
I am rejecting this response because: 1) I have photographic evidence that every wall inside this home is insulated above and beyond what "code" calls for with the exception of 2 walls in our master suite (the pocket door to the toilet and the adjacent wall between the master bath and master closet.2) I returned 5-6 full packs of R30 insulation that we purchased to insulate the entire house including the joist-space between the floors.3) Randy, the brother of the Sound Heating's owner (and respondent to this complaint), Curtis, told us not to insulate between the floors because "heat rises." 4) We didn't "cut cost" on anything in this home, and much less on $1,000 or less of insulation.5) The statement "We have informed the [redacted] family that our warranty is still partially valid..." is completely false and no one has communicated anything to us about our warranty.6) We still have a section of our heating that is not working on the lower floor where the argument for lack of insulation cannot be made as it's in slab. I have notified Sound Heating about this and it is still not fixed because "no one will respond to [your house] without Curtis' "ok." - This was not address in Curtis' response here.7) Your findings are not easily proven as our master bedroom maintains a proper temperature at all times and has the exact same flooring set-up as the other 2 bedrooms / bonus room that have heating issues.8) The builder is my wife's father - he's not going to "take her for a ride" when building her dream home.Curtis, we spoke on November 7th, 2016 in your office when you told me I owed you an extra $2,500 and that you had filed a lien on my home and wouldn't release it until that amount in dispute was paid. I told you that however much I disagreed with owing you that money, you had me in a bind and I would pay that amount in full but I asked to pay $1,500 that next day and $1,000 after the holidays because Christmas was around the corner. I told you had my word and I never go back on that - you looked me in the eye and told me you would release the lien on my home after I came in to pay the $1,500 and that you trusted my word. We shook on that.  I came in the next day as I told you I would and you demanded I sign a promissory note. I signed, because I gave you my word and a piece of paper wouldn't change that. You then handed me a lien release... for my father's property. You have no idea where I live, have never been there, and "[redacted]" me. Then when the Attorney General's Officer and the Revdex.com contact you, you lie to them both in your response. I have not lied, and will not lie about the situation we are in. Every single other contractor we had a disagreement with was able to sort it out with us - sometimes we paid the extra, sometimes they came through and fixed the issue. YOU, Curtis H[redacted], have ruined something my wife and I thought we would enjoy so much. Your brother's mistake has detrimentally cost my family.Sincerely,
[redacted]

Complaint: [redacted]I am rejecting this response because:
Today I received a registered letter from the owner of sound heating Curtis  H[redacted] in response to my complaint in addition to a letter from his attorney stating my complaints and internet campaign against his client is unfounded.  I would like to scan and fax both letters as they support my claim against Sound Heating.  Please instruct me how you would like to proceed with that so that you can get this letter in writing vs through my "interpretation" of my issues.  Here are the facts:
Mr Curtis H[redacted] (the owner) confirms that the heat pump was not wired when the system was installed in June of 2011, I would like to fax or scan you the letter to confirm that. In the letter he goes on with a lengthy explanation as to  why that may not have occurred and whom was responsible. 
Fact - The Heat pump was wired on July 17, 2012, more than a year later, when I discovered there was no air conditioning and called to see what was going on.  I have copies of the receipts from Sound Heating.  Unbeknown to me I ran on "emergency Heat" form December until I discovered.  At the VERY least my warranty should begin form July 17, 2012.
Fact - On December 28, 2015 I called Sound heating and requested a “Startup Sheet”  from Bret I[redacted] in service which is a record of all of the repairs done and installations with all of the pressures from Sound Heating beginning with the initial installation as I thought that I had a “lemon heater and heat pump”. 
Fact - On December 29, 2015 I again called service and spoke with Bret I[redacted] in service.  I again requested a “startup sheet” from Sound heating.  He told me that the company had “lost” the startup information on my York Heather and Heat Pump and that it was not available to me.  He then asked me what did I want that information for?  He then went on to state I would get better results with sound heating if I were nice to them vs being frustrated….  At that point I did not call Sound as I realized that they were not going to be forthcoming and assist me in trying to determine what was going on with the Heat Pump.
Fact - on 11/27/13 I had a routine maintenance check and to clean my system.  On 1/20/14 Sound was call back as the heat did not work and found "secondary post filters plugged solid"  per Mr H[redacted] letter.  Mr H[redacted] admits that this could have occurred naturally or that it is possible it could have been missed by the technician
Fact - on 6-2-14 Sound was called out again on a complaint that the heat pump was not running..... per Mr H[redacted] letter to me he states "My paperwork is vague and I can't tell exactly what the technician did other than reset the  switch at the zone panel"  "No actual repairs took place" and the tech did not charge you at all"  Please keep in mind Sound heating has a $100+ dollar charge EVERY time they come to your home before any work begins.
Fact - 2/9/15 I called and booked an appointment because the heat pump was beginning to make a lot of noise when it was running, however Mr H[redacted] states the visit was for simple maintenance.  The tech found a bad part (TXV thermal expansion valve) and recommended repair at the cost of $870 plus tax.  There was no charge for the part because it was under warranty, however there was a considerable charge to have the work done......   I also a regular maintenance done at that time.  At that point I had a discussion with the technician in regard to the frequent issues with the heat pump
Fact -8/25/15 - routine maintenance and a bent door switch was found at the electronic Air Cleaner - I would like to also state that I was informed and made it a point to remove my air filters, clean them and  allow them to dry before putting them back in place every 3-4 months from the first maintenance in which I was informed that I needed to do so
Fact 12/26/15 - day after Xmas, no heat, heat pump stopped working. I call York customer service, they told me to request the start up sheet from Sound. I called the next day to request the start up sheet, upon my 2nd attempt to request the start up sheet I was declined and told it had been lost.  York had recommended that I needed to get this in order to determine if there was an issue with the  heat pump and Sound refused to give this to me.
Fact 12/26/15 I contacted Sunset Air and had them check out the heat pump.....the report states the following - "checked outdoor unit.  No low side pressure and checked O/D TXV Tube busted off.  Not denning.  I was told that I was looking at a repair cost of $1200+, that the heat pump part was under warranty and the cost reflected the labor cost.  I was also told by the technician "Justin", that he had never seen the work done in the manner that it was done.  
Fact - I also booked an appointment for Sunset Air return to do a thorough forensic analysis and post mortem of my heating system on Thursday December 31, 2015 @ 8am.  Les R[redacted] (Energy Analyst) came out this morning for about 1.5 hours to assess the heater and heat pump.  Sunset Air while sympathetic will not initiate the repairs due to potential liability issues and the possibility that Sound Heating would not take responsibility for their work.  He told me I had picked the highest quality system and that he doubted that the issues were due to a “lemon heater and heat pump”.  He took a bunch of pictures and will consult with the experts @ his company.  He also told me any warranty should start not from the date the unit was installed; but not hooked up (2011)…. But from the date that the system was hooked up  and operational which was 7/21/2012 and all charges related to any work should have been under warranty for both parts and labor from 7/21/12 – 7/21/13. I have the receipt that states the system was not hooked up…. To quote the repair note “customer had no cooling and only running on emergency heat…. The outdoor unit was not wired up and indoor unit never went through startup”  “pressure tested, leak checked Vac’d to 300 miceoig?, unit was started in coding worked fine, heating is also working normal”…. 
Fact - As I was not allowed by Sound heating to get the information (start up sheet) that I needed to find out what was going on, I had no option but to go to another company.  In addition at no time did they officer to help me sort out if the issues were due to a a lemon heat pump or if installations and repair had not been done right. 
If you provide me with a fax or email, I will be happy to send you the letter I received today from Mr. H[redacted] outlining the service done on my heater and his response.  I still have not received the "startup sheet" which is what York customer service advised that I request from Sound Heating to determine if my heat pump is defective or if repairs were not done right and I have not received them to date.  I would like to pursue this complaint for the reasons stated in this letter.  I have also included an updated word document with follow up information.
Regards,
[redacted] [redacted]

We stand by our prior response in its entirety, which is below, with the following added in response to Mr. [redacted]’s additional comments of 2/1/18:   •             Mr. [redacted]’s statement that “All the information needed to repair the hot water heater is on the side of the tank’s cover” is incorrect. Mr. [redacted] is referring to the data label. The data label gives model number, serial number and some other tank identifying information but none of the troubleshooting information needed for that particular model. This is why the call the Bosch Technical Support was necessary and customary in instances where troubleshooting guides are not available on site.   •             Mr. [redacted]’s statement that “Mitch had me order the mother board” is incorrect. Mr. [redacted] opted to order the control board on the recommendation of Bosch Technical Support, not Sound Heating. Mitch only determined the actual voltage being supplied to the gas valve, provided that information to Bosch, while Bosch made the determination that there was inadequate voltage being supplied to the gas valve by the control board.     •             Mr. [redacted]’s statement that “Mitch even wrote the igniter was the problem” is incorrect. Mitch’s exact wording on his service report was, “Pilot not igniting – good spark, no propane thru valve.” In other words, Mitch stated the igniter was working properly but there was no fuel available to cause it to ignite. See below:image in attached PDF - SDM•             Mr. [redacted]’s statement that “This contractor has lied about me being on auto-fill of my tanks” is incorrect. We have made no such comments verbally or in writing, and are not aware of, or a party to, Mr. [redacted]’s propane delivery schedule. •             In a phone call on 2/8/18 to [redacted], the company Mr. [redacted] referred to as repairing the “damage” caused by Sound Heating, a company representative stated that they are a petroleum products delivery company only and do not work on appliances such on-demand water heaters, and therefore would not be properly credentialed to perform such work. Their website further indicates this. That representative further stated the when a propane tank becomes less than 20% full, it’s common to experience a propane smell. In summary, there was no fuel for the hot water heater on the 11/20/17 service call as documented clearly by Mitch in his paperwork; [redacted], not Sound Heating, made the diagnosis of a failing control board (which may well be accurate as the gas valve voltage will likely continue to drop and the valve eventually will not open at all); Mr. [redacted], after being a party to the call with [redacted] Technical Support, agreed to purchase a replacement control board himself. Sound Heating’s role was limited to determining there was no fuel and obtaining readings for the tank manufacturer to assess, which is industry standard when older equipment has no troubleshooting documentation available on site. We stand by this and our earlier statement of 1/30/18.