Sumner Floors & More

In response to consumer: Delay of job happened for several reasonsHomeowner added areas that were not a part of original scope and more wood was needed in order to finish jobHomeowner changed layout of entryway where hardwood was to meet and removed tile that the wood was to meet up toWe also made trips to home to finish up work, but were advised that they were not ready for us to finish yetConsumer lived on part of the floors for over a month before we finished up the rest of the floorsShe did not complain about the product at all before we finished he installation and signed the paperwork after having lived on part of the floors for over a monthWe did go back and replace some boards that were damagedOnce the boards were replaced consumer called me again and advised she was unhappy with the finish of the floor and that is when I said I would hire a certified independent inspector to look at the finish and make sure the wood and finish was not defectiveWe had an independent inspector go to the homeThis gentleman is certified to do wood inspections by [redacted] and Inspection Training Services and has been Certified to do such inspections since September of This gentleman is not employed by Sumner Carpet One or by the manufacturer of the woodI paid him a fee to do the inspection, but he in no way is employed by my companyI do know him, but not on a personal level, only from other inspections done on other consumers floorsHis inspection came back with the following results: 1.The scratches in the floor were actual depressions to the wood and did not break the finish of the floorThese scratches were consistent to claw marks running all different directionsManufacturer warranties do not cover wood dentingThe chips in the wood that were shown to him were not actually chips, but light spots within the stain of the wood and have no damage to themThe finish completely covers those areasThere were actual chips at the edges of the wood showing the exposed woodThere were some planks that had splitting on the ends that appear to be wind shake which is not something that can be seen when installed, but rather after the floor has been nailed into placeThe conditions of the home were not conducive to any hardwood floors during the inspectionPer the National Wood Flooring Association relative humidity in the home should be between 30% to 50% and the temperature between degrees to degreesThat is for all wood speciesTheir home during inspection was at 30% and temp was at degrees which is above for the temperature and on the lowest level for humidity which can result in cracking and splittingThe consumer's old flooring was a red oak and on the Janka scale of hardness, which measures the amount of force is required to embed a .444-inch steel ball into the wood, is a for a Northern Red Oak and a for a southern red oak and the Birch floor that is in their home is within the same range at There is no way to determine where the previous red oak flooring came fromThe old oak floors were light in color and had a lot of graining which helped to disguise the scratches to the surface and the new wood selected is clear in graining and has a darker stain on itTheir previous wood had a lot of damage to itI tried to show them a hand scrapped wood or another oak floor that I told them would help hide the scratches moreThe consumer was the one that liked the wood that was selectedI in no way mislead them into thinking this wood would not scratch, dent or change colorAgain, quoting he National Wood Flooring Association all wood will change color over time due to oxidation and exposure to lightAll wood will dent with enough forceConsumer has stated that she has had professional people come into her home and give their idea of what is acceptableThis is just hearsay from another company without actual factsShe also told me she was going to have another inspector come to the homeI welcome her hiring another certified independent hardwood inspectorI just must qualify that it has to be a certified hardwood independent inspector or it holds no merit with the manufacturerShould an additional inspection take place with different results that finds fault in our installation then I would absolutely stand behind our installation to replace the floorThe complaint has always been with the product itself and not the installationI feel that I have done my job in paying for the first inspection with no cost to the consumerI have offered to the consumer that my installers will come back to the home and repair the boards that have the gouges in them as well as the boards that have wind shake happening at the ends of themThere is no way to prove where the gouges came from and the wind shake was something we could not see until after it was installed, but I am willing to fix those for her at no chargeI have also agreed to fix a stair nosing that is not perfectly level as well as change the putty that was used to fill the nail holes as the consumers did not like the color matchI believe I have been more than cooperative through this whole process at trying to make the consumer happyI spent many evenings at their home after pm and have always been responsive to their needsI do not however feel that I am responsible for replacing all of their floors because they are unhappy with their own selectionThe damage to their floors is caused by the amount of pressure the 8# dog puts on his nails when he jumps up in the air and back down on the hardwood as well as running and sliding across the floorsThank you- Heather R***

I would like to start with some statements in this response which are very untrue. When I first met with *** *** she had said that they have a very high deductible and would like to see how they could decrease that cost if at all possible. I informed them that if we went with a solid wood product versus an engineered product we would not have to install the 1/underlayment that was installed under the engineered wood she had before and the height of the new wood be the same as before. The comment made that this wood was used due to the ease of installation is absolutely false. Installation of wood is the same whether it is a solid of engineered wood and both products would have been able to be installed over her sunken living room. The installation over the sunken living room was at ** *** suggestion as she didn't want to go through more of the mess in her home by tearing all of it out. I called the manufacturer to make sure that the wood would still be warrantied over her existing wood and he told me that the wood in that room was stable enough sub-floor and would meet their specifications of a proper sub-floor. I also never suggested using the hardwood in the kitchen. That was brought up by *** ***. She said she used to have hardwood in the kitchen and would like the consistency of the wood flowing into the kitchen as well. Again there is no ease of installation. The hardest part of her job was the demolition of the existing floors, not the installation of anything. While we were in the process of installing the kitchen I was asked if we could take the wood out of the pantry and carry the new wood into there as well. This is where more wood was needed for the job. I also never said you could drive a car on this wood nor would I say that about any wood product. Wood is wood and it dents, scratches, moves around based on the humidity in the home, and changes color due to the exposure of UV light. Another statement that is completely untrue is the statement that I said I did not know the inspector coming to the home. My exact words were that the independent inspector does not work for me nor does he work the manufacturer of the product. He is a completely independent person coming in and evaluating the floors. I would never say I don't know the inspectors as I clearly have had other jobs we have had to use them on. There have been times where we were at fault and from these reports we have replaced floors
*** *** also makes statements such as I only directed them to solid wood which is also completely untrue. She never asked about the engineered wood as the solid wood was a way to reduce their deductible. Engineered wood and solid wood are the same in the structure of the top layer of wood. The complaint is that this wood scratches. This and all wood would scratch whether it was a solid or engineered. As I stated before wood is wood and that is one of its characteristics. Engineered wood is a more stable wood than solid only when it comes tot he expanding and contrasting of the wood itself from the different humidity levels. This was something that we did talk about. Again the concern was the deductible. I never pushed anything on them. I was there to help them to the best of my abilities and had they said I want the exact same product I would have put the exact same product back in. They had an entire showroom to look at samples and I had said they were able to look at all of them and decide what they like best. ** *** took samples home. I even suggested to them to use a hand scrapped product because it tends to hide new scratches more easily. The wood that was in her home previously was tested by an independent company called *** that gives the specs of the product as well as a current value. A sample of the new floor was also given to that same company to evaluate. *** *** keeps referring to me selling her a cheaper product, but according to the *** reports both pieces of wood were valued at the same price. I can produce those records if anyone would like to see them
The cleaning of the wood was another thing brought up. I did say she could use a small amount of white vinegar and water. It is what I use in my home on my own hardwoods. There are several different types of cleaners that can be used. I have found that using a small amount of white vinegar and water gets the same clean and costs a lot less. The use of the white vinegar did not cause any harm to the finish again this is not the complaint. In the inspection it clearly states there is nothing wrong with the finish. If ** *** is using this guide sheet as proof then this sheet also suggests area rugs in high traffic areas and through fare areas. This is why I suggested area rugs to her. The form also states excessive swings in humidity will cause hardwood floors to swell, shrink, cup, crack and show excessive gaps. The wind shake in the boards is not something we could detect when installing and was not something caused in the handling of the product. I do not know where the chipping at the edges came from and I am not placing blame on anyone as there is no way to show how those got there. I again said that we would repair all of those boards. The install of this floor started February 11th. We installed only the floor in the family room as I had an installer who did not feel comfortable taking out the tile and hardibacker from the kitchen and could not finish the job. I then had a delay in installation of the other areas as I had to wait for my other hardwood installer to have clearing in his schedule. This delay was absolutely my fault. We started the second phase of the home on February 22. We did go for several days and during that time is when they decided to have the wood continue into the pantry. I had to order new wood and wait for it to arrive. We also had to have the stair nosing re-stained as they arrived to us being a completely different color. When we went back in March to finish install and when we arrived the entire entry way had been reconfigured and in no way made our job easier. Where the actual bullnose piece fits along edging into the family room was completely different than before. We tried to finish up all of the work while ** *** was gone, but *** did not want us coming as he did not have the tile finished in the entryway that he tore out in the middle of the job. We actually had different appointments to go there and he cancelled us each time. I offered ** *** many different woods and I did not push her in one direction or another. She had a large selection of wood to choose from and this was her selection. I do not choose products for my customers. I give them their options and it is their choice and responsibility to make sure that product works for them
Again I am willing to come repair the boards that are bad and fix the stair nosing. I also feel at this point that ** *** might not want my company back in her home, so I am willing to give a refund to her to have that work taken care of. I would really like to have this settled as I am sure ** *** would also
Thank you-
Heather R

*** Please See Attached Documents ***
Will you please reopen my complaintI have not received a response from Sumner flooring.To hire a contractor, I have had two companies take a look at the floor and their advice is the floorneeds to be redone completelyOne of which I have a written bid that I have faxed to you from *** *** ***
The other Contractor will Issue me a bid and list the details of the issues and
concernsThis Individual has had medical problems arise, so he will have one of his employees comeback out write a report of his findings and consult with him on the details.Neither contractors are willing to cut out sections and replace as there are too many areas AND thattends to create future problems which they are not willing to warranty the ending result of their work.Therefore, I am anxious to move forward with getting this resolved and be able to put my home back inorder.Sincerely,*** ***

In response to consumer: 1. Delay of job happened for several reasons. Homeowner added areas that were not a part of original scope and more wood was needed in order to finish job. Homeowner changed layout of entryway where hardwood was to meet and removed tile that the wood was to meet up to. We...

also made trips to home to finish up work, but were advised that they were not ready for us to finish yet. Consumer lived on part of the floors for over a month before we finished up the rest of the floors. She did not complain about the product at all before we finished he installation and signed the paperwork after having lived on part of the floors for over a month. 2. We did go back and replace some boards that were damaged. Once the boards were replaced consumer called me again and advised she was unhappy with the finish of the floor and that is when I said I would hire a certified independent inspector to look at the finish and make sure the wood and finish was not defective. 3. We had an independent inspector go to the home. This gentleman is certified to do wood inspections by [redacted] and Inspection Training Services and has been Certified to do such inspections since September of 2011. This gentleman is not employed by Sumner Carpet One or by the manufacturer of the wood. I paid him a fee to do the inspection, but he in no way is employed by my company. I do know him, but not on a personal level, only from other inspections done on other consumers floors. 4. His inspection came back with the following results: 1.The scratches in the floor were actual   depressions to the wood and did not break the finish of the floor. These scratches were consistent to claw marks running all different directions. Manufacturer warranties do not cover wood denting. The chips in the wood that were shown to him were not actually chips, but light spots within the stain of the wood and have no damage to them. The finish completely covers those areas. There were 2 actual chips at the edges of the wood showing the exposed wood. 3. There were some planks that had splitting on the ends that appear to be wind shake which is not something that can be seen when installed, but rather after the floor has been nailed into place. 4. The conditions of the home were not conducive to any hardwood floors during the inspection. Per the National Wood Flooring Association relative humidity in the home should be between 30% to 50% and the temperature between 60 degrees to 80 degrees. That is for all wood species. Their home during inspection was at 30% and temp was at 81 degrees which is above for the temperature and on the lowest level for humidity which can result in cracking and splitting. 5. The consumer's old flooring was a red oak and on the Janka scale of hardness, which measures the amount of force is required to embed a .444-inch steel ball into the wood, is a 1290 for a Northern Red Oak and a 1060 for a southern red oak and the Birch floor that is in their home is within the same range at 1460. There is no way to determine where the previous red oak flooring came from. The old oak floors were light in color and had a lot of graining which helped to disguise the scratches to the surface and the new wood selected is clear in graining and has a darker stain on it. Their previous wood had a lot of damage to it. I tried to show them a hand scrapped wood or another oak floor that I told them would help hide the scratches more. The consumer was the one that liked the wood that was selected. I in no way mislead them into thinking this wood would not scratch, dent or change color. Again, quoting he National Wood
Flooring Association all wood will change color over time due to oxidation and exposure to light. All wood will dent with enough force. 6. Consumer has stated that she has had 2 professional people come into her home and give their idea of what is acceptable. This is just hearsay from another company without actual facts. She also told me she was going to have another inspector come to the home. I welcome her hiring another certified independent hardwood inspector. I just must qualify that it has to be a certified hardwood independent inspector or it holds no merit with the manufacturer. Should an additional inspection take place with different results that finds fault in our installation then I would absolutely stand behind our installation to replace the floor. The complaint has always been with the product itself and not the installation. I feel that I have done my job in paying for the first inspection with no cost to the consumer. I have offered to the consumer that my installers will come back to the home and repair the boards that have the 2 gouges in them as well as the boards that have wind shake happening at the ends of them. There is no way to prove where the gouges came from and the wind shake was something we could not see until after it was installed, but I am willing to fix those for her at no charge. I have also agreed to fix a stair nosing that is not perfectly level as well as change the putty that was used to fill the nail holes as the consumers did not like the color match. I believe I have been more than cooperative through this whole process at trying to make the consumer happy. I spent many evenings at their home after 5 pm and have always been responsive to their needs. I do not however feel that I am responsible for  replacing all of their floors because they are unhappy with their own selection. The damage to their floors is caused by the amount of pressure the 8# dog puts on his nails when he jumps up in the air and back down on the hardwood as well as running and sliding across the floors. Thank you- Heather R[redacted]

In response to contact m de by Sumner floors to Revdex.com, I would like to respond to the items identified in paragraphs 1,2, 3, 4, 5, and 6 of Heather R[redacted] response to my complaint. 1. First of all, the delay in the start of the project, set to begin in mid Feb. 2015, was not due to changes in the original scope of the plans.  The delay was actually due to availability of the work crew to begin.  I am enclosingemails to this [redacted] the proof of this comment.. The original scope included replacing the kitchen tiles,  requiring Sumner Floors to remove the existing tile and re-tile and re-grout the kitchen floor. The change in the scope was Heather R[redacted] suggestion because it would save her time and money to continue the hardwood throughout. We agreed to extend the wood through the kitchen to create a better flow and to decrease the costs. I had a $2000 deductible that I met by helping in areas such as the demolishing of the old floors, painting the previously damaged walls, removing the furniture and all the wall hangings to save from these items from getting damaged. 2. Once the install began, I was excited about how the rich color of the floors looked in our home, although I let the crew know of some areas of concern. There were, and still are, chips along the edges of several pieces of the hardwood, yet it was installed anyways. After Heather R[redacted] came to the house only one time, and we agreed that she would replace the areas of concern including some chipped wood and the unappealing bullnose. Only a portion of the chipped wood was sawed out and replaced. They did come back on three occasions to remove some areas of flooring by cutting them out and refitting and gluing new pieces In place. During this process, a lot of wood dust was produced throughout the entire house. My husband hos COPD, and this environment was very harsh on his condition, I felt like I was spending all my days off deep cleaning to keep a handle on the dust. 3. An inspector was hired by Sumner Carpet One, and I was initially told that she did not know the gentleman. When the contact was made to schedule the meeting, the inspector told he had done prior inspections for her. Hearing this made me feel I was not informed correctly. and that the inspection was not going to be fair.
I later contacted my Insurance Company and agreed to the inspection.4. Comments on the inspection: Regarding the humidity in my house at the time of the inspection, the inspection was performed during the hot summer we had in western Washington, with temperatures in the 90's (June 2015). One remark in said inspection concerned the front door being opened, therefore, the house was not considered a "controlled environment". I do indeed have central air in my house, which I did not have on that day because there were several people going in and out so my doors were opened in front and back. I was not once asked by Heather R[redacted] about having a controlled environment in my home, nor was I informed of the stringent heat and humidity requirements concerning this specific product. Another factor that would cause the surface heat to be too high is the fact that the solid wood flooring was installed on top of the previous wood floor throughout the sunken living room. It was never discussed that lack of humidity could cause damage. My issue is with the suggested purchase of this particular birch flooring product. The fact that there are several pieces of the wood flooring that show signs of "wind shake" ond also several chips and splits In the grain of the wood, noted in the inspection, the product is clearly of poor quality and the transportation of this product by Sumner Carpet One ws not handled with care. For the care and cleaning of this product, I was told by Heather not to use a steamer and that it was suggested to use vinegar and water for cleaning. The hardwood floor inspector that Heather R[redacted] hired, on the other hand, told me it is not good to use vinegar as it can damage the finish, By then, I had used it on many occasions followed by dry mopping so the floor was never sitting wet. These are all things I would expect my sales person to inform me of. These facts provide evidence of the incompetence of Heather R[redacted] and Sumner Carpet One. 5, My previous existing wood floor was being replaced due to water damage in the dining area.Although the previous oak wood flooring was approximately 15 years old, it was in good shape, and we were happy with it. I had this floor during times of raising children and 2 pet dachshunds. So having another small dog, I would not even think to look for pet damage. Heather stated the hardness of oak and birch based on the Janka scale, which also specifies that some oak varieties (my previous flooring) have hardness os high as 1360 and some birch varieties (the new flooring) are as low on the hardness scale 910. 6. When I was shopping for new wood flooring, I ws most Interested in engineered hardwood due to what l've heard of its durability. Although engineered wood was my first choice, Heather persisted to show me solid wood varieties. We were told that the solid wood floors would be able to be installed on top of my existing hardwood flooring in the sunken living room, The sale of the birch flooring was based on financial allowance and ease of installation, since they would not have to remove the existing flooring in the sunken living room. If I was informed that this may not be a good product with a pet or that this is a softer wood, I would never have gone with this choice. Heather was wrong for thinking only of the benefits to her company, rather than the satisfaction of her customer. I was interested in engineered wood when we visited the store but was a continually directed to the solid wood for my selection. I eventually went with her recommendations and trusted she was a professional that was directing us to the best choice, knowing full well that we have a small dog. This is a soft wood product prone to denting. 
After only one month, the flooring showed many signs of not being durable.
7.  I had a professional carpenter come in to give us a bid on the woodwork to be replaced and his comments are attached.8.  I will have an additional flooring company come and give an estimate of replacing the floor and to give another opinion of the existing floor. 9. Other notes or points: The install started early Feb. 2015. I signed off for [redacted] to release payment on March 5, as I was going on a 10 day vacation and expected it finished when I returned. My husband and I made a change in the scope to install a tile entry at our own expense and to the benefit of Sumner Carpet One. The bullnose needed to be fixed and several other boards needed to be pulled up and replaced. Most of the meetings with Heather required me leaving work early to make a 4-or 4:30 meeting at my home in Puyallup, l regularly work until 5-or 6:00 Monday through Friday in downtown Tacoma10. I am also sending this complaint to the Attorney General's Office.In regards to the comments concerning our dog and his nails, he is a small dog and I have always clipped his nails regularly. I am not happy with Heather's cheap product suggestion because Ibelieve she should have suggested quality wood over this cheap dent-prone wood. During our purchasing process, she made the comment that driving a car over the wood would not cause damage, yet now she persistently argues that our small dog and the fact that we lived on part of the wood are the causes of all of the damage. One of her installers told me that he had the same flooring installed at his house, and because his dog damaged it, he now has to cover it with area rugs. I am not interested in covering my brand new floors with area rugs because it is a poor quality product, Heather R[redacted] is entirely responsible for selling us a poor quality product, and we believe that the flooring should be replaced at her expense with a more durable product. If her company is unable to replace the flooring with a higher quality product, then I would like a full refund.
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