Sunteq LTD

DATE: FEBRUARY 21.2018TO: RevDex.comFROM: Daniel Woodring,SUBJECT: File # [redacted] *We are prepared to accept the [redacted] ’ counter-proposal with a few small modifications:The compressor and the first “A” coil be warranted as of the dates of their replacements.The compressor was changed-out December 29, 2016 and warranted for five years as of that date. We had already purchased a five-year warranty from the manufacturer at that time and we cannot alter the date. The 1st “A” coil was changed out about a year ago on or about February 3rd, 2017. We - not the manufacturer - will warrant the “A” coils.However, we can improve the warranty on the other components to which they refer. We will warrant the new “A” coil to be installed and all other components in the geothermal unit for a period of five years from the date of the change-out of the new “A” coil, probably in early March (until we receive the signed “go-ahead” from the [redacted] ).This means that, not only the components to which they referred (those in the two invoices they received) will be covered, but also original components installed when the geothermal unit was built in 2008.Here is the 2nd stipulation: [redacted] ’ agree to an annual check-up for our normal charge of $70, so that we can catch any minor problems that we discover before they become major problems. Components like contactors, run-capacitors, and start capacitors are electrical components that are the HVAC industry’s most often changed-out part - capacitors because they get weak and when their mfd (microfarad) levels test 10% (+ or - 5 mfd on a typical 50 mfd capacitor) below their rating, we change them out. This does not mean that every time a run cap falls below it’s rating that a compressor is threatened, but eventually if the capacitor continues to degrade it will have more difficulty starting and running the compressor, will draw more amperage, and stress the compressor windings. Contactor points get blackened from arcing and sometimes will burn and stick. This causes a compressor to run when it’s not called for -which weakens it and shortens it’s life.Our dealers here charge $75 to $100 for a check-up and cleaning. There are so many more components to check on a geothermal system than on an oil furnace. We will cover any component costs if they call and set up a time for a check-up. Going into the early winter months (late November or sometime in December) are the best times for check-ups because that’s when the system will work the hardest. The [redacted] should call us in each of the coming early winters to set up a mutually agreeable date and time for the checkup.The system is leaking refrigerant badly, so time is of the essence.

Purchased a system in 2011, numerous problems including leaks in foundation from not sealing loops, compressor failure that they did not come out to fix, had to use a local company even though system was under warranty, submitted bills for reimbursement and never received a dime from companyToo small of an operation to maintain anything under warrantyAvoid at all costs!

Revdex.com: I have reviewed the response made by the business in reference to complaint ID [redacted] , and have determined that this does not resolve my complaint For your reference, details of the offer I reviewed appear below We are willing to accept the offer However, only under the condition that a 5-year warranty be placed on all of the replaced parts Regards, [redacted]

Revdex.com:
I have reviewed the response made by the business in reference to complaint ID ***, and have determined that this does not resolve my complaint. For your reference, details of the offer I reviewed appear below.Following receipt of the response, my husband placed a call to the business in attempt to come to a solution. He left a message and has not yet received a call back. He also has figured out the breakdowns of the system and has determined that in years, the system has failed and had to either be repaired or serviced times. We look forward to coming to a solution and having our heating system up and running sooner than later. Thank you
Regards,
*** ***

*** *** *** ***
*** *** *** *** *** *** ***SUBJECT: File # *** Your letter of January 26, 2018Interestingly, by the time you drafted your letter on the above date, my son Kerry was at or ready to leave the *** residence, having solved the immediate problem by charging the system with refrigerant.Mr*** called here on Friday afternoon, January -while everyone was out - and left a messageKerry called him back Monday morning January There was no answer to his call, so he left a messageOn Tuesday morning, January 23, Kerry called again, but no answer and on Wednesday, January 24, the two parties finally connected and arranged for Kerry to meet at the Water's home on Friday, January - the date of vour letter.Kerry recharged the system with R-and it is now runningHowever, it will probably go down again in a few months, because once a coil begins to leak, it rarely "fixes" itself.Here is a solution to the situation we are willing to agree to: 1) We will provide and install a new “A” coil in the air handler, 2) recharge the system with refrigerant again to it's full capacity, 3) absorb the costs of labor and materials for the work, in addition to 4) absorbing the costs (as agreed to) for the Friday 1/26/call in exchange for the *** paying their balance of the December, and March invoices - $Further, we are willing to finance those charges, interest free, for say $200/month or any other reasonable payments the Water's feel they can afford, until the balance is paidConsidering the 1/26/trip and the proposed additional service, this offer would be valued at more than $1,000.With a new scroll compressor and two new coils, the *** will have - virtually - a new systemThis is the most reasonable offer we can make

Revdex.com:
I have reviewed the response made by the business in reference to complaint ID [redacted], and have determined that this does not resolve my complaint.  For your reference, details of the offer I reviewed appear below.
We are willing to accept the offer.  However, only under the condition that a 5-year warranty be placed on all of the replaced parts.   
Regards,
[redacted]

TO: Revdex.com
FROM: [redacted]
SUBJECT: [redacted] ComplaintAttached please find an Installation and Owner's Manual for Jenny [redacted]. While this manual primarily deals with installation methods and techniques, there are some service diagnoses and...

recommendations included. Both electrical and piping schematics are included for Ms. [redacted]'s system. Since that system was manufactured and installed in 1999, there have been a number of upgrades made to improve both reliability and performance. The included schematics are for the original system and would not include upgrades should any have been purchased by either the original owners or Ms. [redacted].We are a very small company and have a limited ability to quickly respond to service calls when they are heavy. We have installed over 800 of our geothermal systems in seven states over the years and service is an ongoing need which we do our best to try keep up with.The charge that "the technicians don't really seem to fully understand the system at all" is somewhat exaggerated, since we researched, developed, designed, built, tested, and filed a "disclosure of the invention" with the US Patent & Trademark Office in 1994. We feel that it is safe to say that we know our systems pretty well.We are not aware of the pump problems to which Ms [redacted] alludes. However, on our last service call on March 3, 2014 we did locate and reconnect a loose wire on the ground loop circulator.(pump) and charged Ms. [redacted] all of $35.When Ms. [redacted] alludes to the "blower" she really means the "air handler": (a blower is one of the components in an air handler). The air handler generally includes 1) a refrigerant evaporator/condenser coil, 2) a blower (fan) 3) a supplemental electric heat package and 4) various electrical components to make these all work together.Ms. [redacted] alleges that "twice the wiring connecting the unit to the blower burnt in half'". I believe she means the internal wiring to the electric heat strips in the air handler. The end of an internal wire (installed by the manufacturer - [redacted] Corp.) burnt off of the connections to the heat strips. I was the tech servicing the unit. I disconnected the original heat strip, selected a second unused heat strip, replaced the wire with the same gauge wire as was used by the manufacturer and tested the heat strips for amperage draw (amperage was normal). When she asked why that happened, I responded with "I don’t know".There are mysteries in life, and that may be one of them. All wiring connections were tight, the sequencer and controls were working properly, the wiring was appropriately sized, voltage and amperage were normal. Except for the possibility of a power surqe, there were no obvious answers. The system is more than 15 years old. We did not and do not manufacture air handlers, but I did recommend replacing hers. It is the lesser of expensive components of the system. Present day air handlers have larger refrigerant coils and are more efficient (by DOE mandated new efficiency standards) than the [redacted] units we used at the time (1990 to 2000). But, Ms. [redacted] obviously doesn't want to do that because she believes it wouldn't "fit my ductwork".Replacing an air handler does not require replacing ductwork as Ms. [redacted] seems to allege. It is simply a matter of disconnecting and removing the older unit and replacing it with a new one.I did not recommend installing a larger (upsizing) the breaker. I recommended replacing it. questioning whether or not it was "tripping" if the electrical load exceeded the capacity.of the breaker in some unusual circumstance. The existing breaker - if working properly - was adequate for the electric resistance heat load. To upsize a breaker would require running new wiring - an expensive, time consuming undertaking when wiring is concealed as it is in the [redacted] house.Below listed are the last three invoices to Ms. [redacted] (copies attached):1) December 12, 2013 in the amount of $83.50 (one hour @ $65 and $18.50) to replace a run capaitor on the blower motor in the air handler2) December 17, 2013 in the amount of $130 (2 hours @ $65) to find and replace a burned wire on an electric heat strip (there are four heat strips in the unit, only two of which are used), and 3) March 14, 2014 in the amount of $35 (1/2 hour) to locate and reconnect the loose wire on the circulator pump (addressed above).If there were older invoices they likely were lost in a computer hard drive crash late last year where we lost all of our billing records (and a lot of service income). I suggest that you ask Ms. [redacted] to provide invoices that predate those included with this response. $65 is at the low end of hourly rates for HVAC and geothermal service in our area and virtually all companies charge travel time (which we provide at no additional cost). Aside from that, virtually all companies have a one hour minimum charge ($65 in our case).According to our office manager, the last we heard from Ms. [redacted] was last spring after she received the March 14 invoice for $35. He said she was dissatified with our service and wanted to have someone else service the unit. He said she wanted a service manual, which we do not have as we do virtually all service on our systems. However, we sell systems in states that are too far from us to service. In those cases we provide telephone tech support service at no cost to the consumer or his/her service tech. We advise these clients that we can "walk their techs through most any service problem" and we have been fairly successful in doing so.The equipment was eleven years old (1999) when the [redacted]s bought the house. As far as we know there were not excessive service requirements prior to that. The equipment is getting old, we have no problems with other techs servicing the system, we would be available to provide telephone tech support if asked, and any good tech can change out an air handler - the same type air handler manufactured by air-to-air heat pump manufacturers and sold by the millions every year.

Revdex.com:
I have reviewed the response made by the business in reference to complaint ID [redacted], and find that this resolution is satisfactory to me.  Shawn will be in touch to schedule the repairs and maintainance.   
Regards,
[redacted]

SUBJECT: Response to Complaint, File # [redacted]Thank you for bringing this complaint to our attention. Unfortunately, we had no notice from Mr. [redacted] that he has had further problems with his geothermal system since we were last there in March of 2017 in order to change out an "A" coil in his air...

handler. The air handler is the component in the system that delivers heated air - heat extracted by the geothermal unit from the ground - to the home.You will notice that the December 2016 Invoice provides a credit in the amount of $624 for the compressor that was alleged to have failed at an earlier date - 2011 -which would have been covered under warranty had it been revealed. We do not keep records of any service work done under warranty (since we do not bill for it), so we accepted Mr. [redacted] argument that the compressor should have been under warranty when it was disconnected. So when the 2nd compressor failed in December 2016, we provided a credit in the amount of $624 in the estimates for the two options offered and subsequently in the invoice after the service was completed.In the March 2017 event where our technician, Kerry W[redacted], diagnosed "A" coil refrigerant leaks in one of the two air handlers, he explained to Mr, [redacted] that he should change out the coils in both air handlers because it is usually only a matter of time before the 2nd coil will leak, But, Mr.[redacted] rejected that approach as unnecessary at the time because that coil did not leak.Apparently since March 2017, the system has worked fine. Mr. [redacted] was offered two options for the repair of his system in December 2016. He chose the scroll compressor option. We offered him payment plans - the ability to make payments according to ability to pay. Although not in writing, Shawn accepted. He made a $400.00 payment on or about February 7, 2017 and a $259.00 payment on or about May 30, 2017.While he asserts that the disconnected compressor goes back to 2011, there was a service call made on or about March 25, 2014 of which he makes no mention. This is about 41/3 years after installation and perhaps 3 to 4 years after Mr. [redacted] alleges that a technician was there in 2011.When Kerry W[redacted] called in the Fall of 2017 and asked our client to start making payments, he agreed to do so and did not report any problems or complaints. If there is a new problem, we question why he didn't call us before filing a complaint. In this kind of weather it is important that these issues be resolved quickly.You have probably been made aware that our warranty is 5 years on parts and 3 years on labor. We strongly advise Mr. [redacted] to contact us as we need to diagnose the problem(s) before we can do anything. It has been more than 8 years after the installation in 2009.While we believe we "stand behind our product" that would not extend to the replacement of the entire system. The repairs made with the new upgraded Copeland scroll compressor were substantial. This is a premium, quite expensive compressor which has a five year warranty and it will not be discarded. When offered the option, Mr. [redacted] selected this alternative, and we believe it was a very good choice.We would consider working something out with Mr. [redacted] if he is amenable. But, we need to diagnose the system to see what is wrong.In summary, before forming any opinion of the issue, consider the following items:1. When Mr. [redacted] insisted in 2016 that the compressor was likely disconnected in 2011 we did not challenge his assertion. Sunteq Ltd. has had, over the nearly 40 years in business, a number of technicians making service calls. We have installed more than 800 geothermal systems.. Sometimes when a compressor is overheated and trips out on an overload protector it will be disconnected until it is cool enough to restart. Depending upon how hot the windings are, this could take anywhere from 1/2 hour to a few hours. After all the other system components are checked out it will be reconnected. If it doesn't start and the tech has other calls to make he will sometimes disconnect it and make a note of the issue for someone to return and check it.2. During a March 2014 service call to the [redacted], there was no note of the disconnected compressor. If it were disconnected in 2011, that would imply that two techs knew about the problem, but neither made a note of it So, perhaps it was disconnected in 2014.3. In any event, Mr. [redacted] was given a full credit for the compressor, as in either case, it would still have been under the 5 year parts warranty.4. Our service rates are below market rates. Unlike virtually all service contractors, we charge no travel costs for service. It is about 11/2 hour drive to Mr. [redacted] residence.5. We do not dun, harass, harangue, hassle, or threaten our clients for payment, and that includes Mr. [redacted].6. We would be willing to make a trip , without charge, to diagnose the problems there.When you provide our response to him, please have him contact us so that we can set up a time for a service technician to meet him there.Thank you.

DATE: FEBRUARY 21.2018TO: Revdex.comFROM: Daniel Woodring,SUBJECT: File # [redacted]We are prepared to accept the [redacted]’ counter-proposal with a few small modifications:The compressor and the first “A” coil be warranted as of the dates of their replacements.The compressor was changed-out December 29, 2016 and warranted for five years as of that date. We had already purchased a five-year warranty from the manufacturer at that time and we cannot alter the date. The 1st “A” coil was changed out about a year ago on or about February 3rd, 2017. We - not the manufacturer - will warrant the “A” coils.However, we can improve the warranty on the other components to which they refer. We will warrant the new “A” coil to be installed and all other components in the geothermal unit for a period of five years from the date of the change-out of the new “A” coil, probably in early March (until we receive the signed “go-ahead” from the [redacted]).This means that, not only the components to which they referred (those in the two invoices they received) will be covered, but also original components installed when the geothermal unit was built in 2008.Here is the 2nd stipulation: [redacted]’ agree to an annual check-up for our normal charge of $70, so that we can catch any minor problems that we discover before they become major problems. Components like contactors, run-capacitors, and start capacitors are electrical components that are the HVAC industry’s most often changed-out part - capacitors because they get weak and when their mfd (microfarad) levels test 10% (+ or - 5 mfd on a typical 50 mfd capacitor) below their rating, we change them out. This does not mean that every time a run cap falls below it’s rating that a compressor is threatened, but eventually if the capacitor continues to degrade it will have more difficulty starting and running the compressor, will draw more amperage, and stress the compressor windings. Contactor points get blackened from arcing and sometimes will burn and stick. This causes a compressor to run when it’s not called for -which weakens it and shortens it’s life.Our dealers here charge $75 to $100 for a check-up and cleaning. There are so many more components to check on a geothermal system than on an oil furnace. We will cover any component costs if they call and set up a time for a check-up. Going into the early winter months (late November or sometime in December) are the best times for check-ups because that’s when the system will work the hardest. The [redacted] should call us in each of the coming early winters to set up a mutually agreeable date and time for the checkup.The system is leaking refrigerant badly, so time is of the essence.

Review: This company has been nothing short of difficult since the moment I first contacted them four years ago. Our house has one of Sunteq's geothermal systems so I contacted the company,after we moved in, regarding annual maintenance that should be done (by them and by me) because I had no owner's manual or information about the system. I was told they don't have any written information about the systems. I have been asking them for some sort of manual and schematics for four years. When the unit breaks (and it does break) I call and rarely get a person. I leave a message and someone might get back to me within a week. Usually, I have to continue to call until someone actually answers the phone. Then, I have to wait (usually days) before someone comes out. Once there, the technicians don't really seem to fully understand they system at all. When I ask questions regarding the cause of the various problems, I often get "I don't know" or "I'm not sure". In four years, I have had a water pump fail twice and flood my basement (the second failure, my husband actually fixed because Sunteq wouldn't call back), I have had the blower fail multiple times and Sunteq never did resolve that issue but wanted to replace it with a new blower that did not even fit my ductwork. Twice, the wires connecting the until to the blower burnt in half. Sunteq's solution was if it happened a third time, they were going to put in a larger breaker. This is not solving the problem, it is masking it and can be very dangerous. I have had the compressors freeze and I am still trying to resolve that problem and have called multiple times and have been told that they have no idea when someone can come out. I have tried multiple times to get someone from Sunteq to provide me with information about the system so that I can have someone else try to help me and they have been passive at best. They will not return my calls or respond to letters. Do not get involved with this company because you will regret it.Desired Settlement: I would very much like the company to give me some type of owner's manual AND the schematics for the system so I can find someone else to help me fix the myriad of problems.

Business

Response:

TO: Revdex.com FROM: [redacted] SUBJECT: [redacted] ComplaintAttached please find an Installation and Owner's Manual for Jenny [redacted]. While this manual primarily deals with installation methods and techniques, there are some service diagnoses and recommendations included. Both electrical and piping schematics are included for Ms. [redacted]'s system. Since that system was manufactured and installed in 1999, there have been a number of upgrades made to improve both reliability and performance. The included schematics are for the original system and would not include upgrades should any have been purchased by either the original owners or Ms. [redacted].We are a very small company and have a limited ability to quickly respond to service calls when they are heavy. We have installed over 800 of our geothermal systems in seven states over the years and service is an ongoing need which we do our best to try keep up with.The charge that "the technicians don't really seem to fully understand the system at all" is somewhat exaggerated, since we researched, developed, designed, built, tested, and filed a "disclosure of the invention" with the US Patent & Trademark Office in 1994. We feel that it is safe to say that we know our systems pretty well.We are not aware of the pump problems to which Ms [redacted] alludes. However, on our last service call on March 3, 2014 we did locate and reconnect a loose wire on the ground loop circulator.(pump) and charged Ms. [redacted] all of $35.When Ms. [redacted] alludes to the "blower" she really means the "air handler": (a blower is one of the components in an air handler). The air handler generally includes 1) a refrigerant evaporator/condenser coil, 2) a blower (fan) 3) a supplemental electric heat package and 4) various electrical components to make these all work together.Ms. [redacted] alleges that "twice the wiring connecting the unit to the blower burnt in half'". I believe she means the internal wiring to the electric heat strips in the air handler. The end of an internal wire (installed by the manufacturer - [redacted] Corp.) burnt off of the connections to the heat strips. I was the tech servicing the unit. I disconnected the original heat strip, selected a second unused heat strip, replaced the wire with the same gauge wire as was used by the manufacturer and tested the heat strips for amperage draw (amperage was normal). When she asked why that happened, I responded with "I don’t know".There are mysteries in life, and that may be one of them. All wiring connections were tight, the sequencer and controls were working properly, the wiring was appropriately sized, voltage and amperage were normal. Except for the possibility of a power surqe, there were no obvious answers. The system is more than 15 years old. We did not and do not manufacture air handlers, but I did recommend replacing hers. It is the lesser of expensive components of the system. Present day air handlers have larger refrigerant coils and are more efficient (by DOE mandated new efficiency standards) than the [redacted] units we used at the time (1990 to 2000). But, Ms. [redacted] obviously doesn't want to do that because she believes it wouldn't "fit my ductwork".Replacing an air handler does not require replacing ductwork as Ms. [redacted] seems to allege. It is simply a matter of disconnecting and removing the older unit and replacing it with a new one.I did not recommend installing a larger (upsizing) the breaker. I recommended replacing it. questioning whether or not it was "tripping" if the electrical load exceeded the capacity.of the breaker in some unusual circumstance. The existing breaker - if working properly - was adequate for the electric resistance heat load. To upsize a breaker would require running new wiring - an expensive, time consuming undertaking when wiring is concealed as it is in the [redacted] house.Below listed are the last three invoices to Ms. [redacted] (copies attached):1) December 12, 2013 in the amount of $83.50 (one hour @ $65 and $18.50) to replace a run capaitor on the blower motor in the air handler2) December 17, 2013 in the amount of $130 (2 hours @ $65) to find and replace a burned wire on an electric heat strip (there are four heat strips in the unit, only two of which are used), and 3) March 14, 2014 in the amount of $35 (1/2 hour) to locate and reconnect the loose wire on the circulator pump (addressed above).If there were older invoices they likely were lost in a computer hard drive crash late last year where we lost all of our billing records (and a lot of service income). I suggest that you ask Ms. [redacted] to provide invoices that predate those included with this response. $65 is at the low end of hourly rates for HVAC and geothermal service in our area and virtually all companies charge travel time (which we provide at no additional cost). Aside from that, virtually all companies have a one hour minimum charge ($65 in our case).According to our office manager, the last we heard from Ms. [redacted] was last spring after she received the March 14 invoice for $35. He said she was dissatified with our service and wanted to have someone else service the unit. He said she wanted a service manual, which we do not have as we do virtually all service on our systems. However, we sell systems in states that are too far from us to service. In those cases we provide telephone tech support service at no cost to the consumer or his/her service tech. We advise these clients that we can "walk their techs through most any service problem" and we have been fairly successful in doing so.The equipment was eleven years old (1999) when the [redacted]s bought the house. As far as we know there were not excessive service requirements prior to that. The equipment is getting old, we have no problems with other techs servicing the system, we would be available to provide telephone tech support if asked, and any good tech can change out an air handler - the same type air handler manufactured by air-to-air heat pump manufacturers and sold by the millions every year.

Purchased a system in 2011, numerous problems including leaks in foundation from not sealing loops, compressor failure that they did not come out to fix, had to use a local company even though system was under warranty, submitted bills for reimbursement and never received a dime from company. Too small of an operation to maintain anything under warranty. Avoid at all costs!

Review: Geothermal is not working. Sunteq came last Friday and said compressor was bad. Unit is only 3 years old. Compressor was replaced 1st year because of problems. Warranty is for 5 years. We have not heard from them since. We have tried calling and have gotten no response.Desired Settlement: $5000.00