Tahoe Diesel & Four Wheel Drive

Review: wrong diagnosis for coolant leak and replacement some unnecessary parts. Coolont leak continued. Repair warranty not honored in total.

BMW 325i 2004 120K miles [redacted] Took it to Tahoe Diesel $ Four wheel drive on 7/6/13 as engine overheated/shutdown and the low coolant indicator came on due to coolant leak. They diagnosed the problem to be a leak at the bottom of the expansion reservoir. Replaced a bunch of parts (Expansion tank, Fan clutch, serpentine belt, thermostat, surge tank thermostat and added coolant. $985.92. Said all is well.

On my drive home, after about 100 miles, stopped on the way for a little bit and when I got back to the car, saw a big poodle of coolant flowing from underneath the car. Hose to the expansion tank came off. Clamped it down with clamp from [redacted] added more coolant and starting driving back home. Every 30 miles coolant light came on, added coolant and continued by drive to get home. Called Tahoe Diesel on Monday 7/15 and reported the issue. They said they belong to [redacted] and any center that is under [redacted] should fix the issue under warranty. Took my car to [redacted] lube in Fremont, CA and told them it was a different [redacted] last week for the same problem "coolant leaking, engine overheating. Charged $1035.00 to get my car back, said all is well now, replaced Expansion tank cap, Cooling Hose, Water pump, etc. Said talk to Tahoe to get it refunded. Tahoe Diesel said they would only refund labor they charged and sent me a check. Coolant started leaking again and I could hear boiling sounds from under the hood and took into to ECONO, they inspected and said they see no leaks and asked me to drive a few days and come back. Went back after a couple of days and asked them to do a thorough check. After spending a few hours with them, replacing the expansion tank cap again , it turned out the radiator was clogged and the source of the problem. Bought them a radiator ($356.39) from BMW parts and asked them to replace it. Along with the radiator they replaced the coolant and fan sensors and added coolant - Charged $242.25. Told them again this should under NAPA warranty, they said deal with [redacted] on your own and pay to get the car. [redacted] AUTO CARE Contact: [redacted] PH: XXX-XXX-XXXX. [redacted] from [redacted] said he able to refund the amount of the actual work that had to be redone. That would be the expansion tank cap and one gallon of coolant. That amount will be $40.04 for the cap and $49.96 for the coolant and sales tax for both of 9% total of $98.10. Any other consideration for review or compensation would have to be directed to the repair facilities. Claim number at NAC is #XXXXXX.

According to: http://www.napaautocare.com/warranty.aspx

Nationwide Peace of Mind Warranty -

"It's a written warranty that is honored at more than 13,000 locations nationwide - more than any other automotive repair brand." "Covers Parts and Labor on Qualifying Repairs and Services for 24 Months/24,000 Miles."

My visit to NAPA Auto care center in Tahoe was : Engine overheated and stopped. Coolant leaked, Identify the source and fix it.

After spending $1000.00 and leaving the car with them for a week, was told that its all fixed and I am good to go and should not have a problem with coolant leak anymore.

At this point, 24 Months/24,000 Miles, Nationwide Peace of Mind Warranty should be effective

Within 100 miles of driving, it failed again and the above warranty should cover it. All that was paid for from this point onwards should be refunded.

As you can see from the repair history, source of the problem was the radiator. Due to miss-diagnosis, I am pretty sure there is some other latent damage that has been induced, but not sure what it is. Engine performance has decreased, takes longer to cool down. Fuel economy is failing, consumed 1/2 tank of gas from the last repair and got 140 miles, should be about 180.

Apart from the radiator, fan clutch and a gallon or two of 50/50 coolant, replacement of all other parts and labor charged for it was necessary. Desired Settlement: Refund for the un-necessary parts and labor.

Warranty of 24 months/24,000 mile for cooling issues and any latent damage induced. Engine performance seems to have decreased, takes longer to cool now. Fuel economy seems to be failing, consumed 1/2 tank of gas from the last repair and got 140 miles, was 22-23 MPG before.

Business

Response:

Initial Business Response

When the vehicle arrived at Tahoe Diesel, coolant leaked out of the vehicle almost as fast as you could pour it in. Customer was advised that the coolant leak would have to be fixed before we could see if anything else was damaged. Customer ran vehicle overheating until engine quit from overheating. Running a vehicle that hot for that long can cause many kinds of internal engine damage and the customer was advised of this.

While the vehicle was being look at (with the customer standing right there) the fan clutch had no resistance (free spinning) so regardless of whatever was found after the coolant leaks were repaired the fan clutch would need replaced. The customer ok the replacement of the fan clutch at that time after seeing it for him self. The customer was advised anytime an engine is overheated this bad the thermostat should be replaced. The customer agreed on that.

The serpentine belt was cracked in many places (lack of proper maintenance) customer agreed to replace it too. All these things the customer saw with his own eyes before we did any repairs to this vehicle. I told the customer at this time that none of the hoses have ever been changed on this vehicle and the maintenance on this vehicle was very poor. He needs to find a shop to maintain his vehicle.

The customer left the vehicle because he was advised we have no BMW dealer in Tahoe, Reno Nevada is the nearest one. We located the leak the bottom of the coolant tank rotted off where the hose and tank thermostat attach. Note that this is not the engine thermostat. We called BMW in Reno and ordered the following parts; 17-11-7-573-781 expansion tank, 11-52-7-505-302 fan clutch, 11-28-1-706-545 serpentine belt and 11-53-7-509-227. Later we ordered 17-11-1-437-362 coolant expansion tank thermostat being the old one would not extract from the coolant tank in one piece (rotted). The BMW dealer said this in a very common failure especially in higher mileage or on vehicles with poor cooling system maintenance, this vehicle has both.

I gave the customer the estimate. Parts cost was at BMW list price and labor was far below Mitchell Estimator Guide. I reminded him we can not tell if there are more problem until we stop the leak. We can not even run the engine at this point. Again we reminded him that the maintenance on this vehicle is very poor. We told him all the hoses should be changed at this time and the system should be flushed at the minimum. The customer did not want to pay that amount to stop the leak stating it was too much. I told him this was just enough to stop the current leak and there may be other problems and leaks. We can't even pressure test the system with this large of a leak. Not wanting to spend any more he gave me the ok to stop the major leak at the expansion tank. He already approved the replacement of the fan clutch, the engine thermostat and the serpentine belt when he dropped off the vehicle

Gave he a total estimate at this time to replace the fan clutch, the serpentine belt, the engine thermostat, the expansion tank of $1000.00 to $1100.00. We ended up needing the expansion tank thermostat also and still came under the $1000.00 estimate at $985.92. $702.42 parts, BMW parts are expensive. No unnecessary parts were changed. The vehicle that leaked coolant almost as fast as it was put in had no leaks at this time.

Customer was advised that the vehicle was not overheating at this time and there are no leaks at this time. We test drove the vehicle for a few miles. We also told the customer that a lot more work needs to be done to this car. Customer did not want to spend any more money on the vehicle and was unset that he had to spend this money on it. We showed the customer the rotten of bottom of the expansion tank where expansion tank thermostat goes and the lower hose connects, also offered the customer the old parts. Again the customer was upset because of the cost and we reminded him it was just the start more need to be done. The customer read and asked apart every charge on the work order then signed it and paid it.

The following note was clearly printed on the repair order and the customer read every word of the repair order and signed it. "Vehicle lacks maintenance; recommend all soft coolant hoses be replaced. Large amounts of white build up in cooling system. Recommend complete flush and all soft cooling hoses be replaced. System has green coolant in it and water. No BMW coolant in system, Filled with green coolant. Note: no warranty against coolant leaks all soft coolant hoses and seals should be replaced, copy of this repair order upon request.

Customer claimed the hose came off the bottom of the expansion tank and a hose clamp from [redacted] was added. Not possible the lower hose snaps into the expansion tank and a BMW clip holds it on and the expansion thermostat is under that. Can not post pictures here but feel free to bring up a picture of the expansion tank on the internet part # 17-11-7-573-781 and it will be clear that no hose clamp from [redacted] could possible hold on a hose that snaps into the tank. You can not put a clamp on the outside of something that snaps into the inside.

Moving on, customer contacts me about having a problem. We advised him to take it to a Napa Auto Care center if it is anything we did it would be warranted. The parts we replaced did not fail. The repair shop there claimed the water pump failed, I do not doubt that is possible but the vehicle drove over 100 miles up and down mountains and hill without a problem. It would not have made it that far if the water pump was bad when it left the shop. As hot as the customer got the vehicle to the point of it quit running before it got to Tahoe Diesel the water pump could have been damaged and simple took that long to fail. We would have no way to detect that, no one could, it was working when it left and would not have gone up and down hill and mountains for 100 miles if it was not working when it left.

The Econo Lube that replaced the pump said it was not leaking but he believed it was not pumping. It should be noted that changing the water pump did no good for the vehicle was not the problem. After several calls from the customer we decide it would just be better to refund this persons labor charges just to make the customer happy (being told by the customer we did not detect the water pump problem). So we refunded the labor charges to him under the understanding that harassing calls stop and that it satisfies all matters involving this car and any future repairs of this vehicle. The customer agreed and signed a receipt that stated just that. We felt it necessary to have his sign this before we refund him anything. The customer again agreed and signed the agreement, copy available on file. Customer accepted and cashed the refund check. We did not even need to do that for him, we were just trying to defuse a situation but the customer was warned in writing about the condition of his vehicle.

Now it turn out it was not the water pump it was the radiator being restricted. Well we told him on our invoice in writing as well as verbal that the system needed to be flushed and all the hoses need to be replaced and now that is exactly what was wrong. "Vehicle lacks maintenance; recommend all soft coolant hoses be replaced. Large amounts of white build up in cooling system. Recommend complete flush and all soft cooling hoses be replaced. System has green coolant in it and water. No BMW coolant in system, Filled with green coolant. Note: no warranty against coolant leaks all soft coolant hoses and seals should be replaced. "Printed on his repair order that he read every word of and signed."

I am sorry the customer feels that everyone is responsible for the total lack of maintenance to his vehicle but that is in no way our fault and we have gone out of our way to make him happy. I do not feel anything would be enough. We should not have refunded him the labor charges especially after it turned out being exactly what we told him was wrong. No of the part we installed failed so we see no reason to refund them. No unnecessary parts were installed. We are not responsible for his lack of maintenance and are very sorry he feels that way.

Fact: We warned him in writing about the condition of his vehicle and cooling system and it was read and signed - document available.

Fact: We refunded him labor charges in an attempt to make him happy, the customer agreed, signed it, cashed it, and it turned out we did nothing wrong. It was a restricted cooling system and hoses that was the problem just like we documented when he picked up his vehicle.

Fact: Refund was conditional in writing, that the refunds satisfy all matters involving this car, any repairs done to this care and any future repairs of this vehicle; this was agreed and signed - Document available.

Fact: Lack of proper maintenance is the cause of his problems, not our work.

All written proof.

We are sorry the customer feels the way he does. We done all we can to resolve this matter and the customer agreed it was resolved in writing.

Final Consumer Response

(The consumer indicated he/she DID NOT accept the response from the business.)

I disagree with the Tahoe Diesel's statement for the following reasons:

When an overheating condition is approaching, BMW car is designed to shut down the engine and go into a power reduction mode to protect the engine internals. This is what happened when the car powered off, coming down hill into Tahoe. Was across from a gas station when the car stopped completely. Bought a gallon of coolant on what was available at the gas station and after the engine cooled down, was able to open the reservoir cap and add coolant. Engine started and electronics inside were working. Did not know there was a leak, thought just out of coolant. Drove for half a mile and it shut down again. At this point got it towed to Tahoe Diesel.

Disagree: It did not run that hot for that long. Probably ran for less than three miles downhill, before it completely stopped.

Agree: Fan clutch had no resistance and based on the mechanic's recommendation agreed to replace it, as was told it can't be repaired.

Disagree: Thermostat replacement. Was it tested to determine it was bad and needed a replacement? I left that to the mechanic as they are the experts.

Disagree: Serpentine belt. I did not see nor was pointed to me when I dropped of the car. It is beneath a few other parts. When I went to pick up the car a week later, mechanic said he had to replace it as it had crack or two and showed the cracks to me.

Disagree: Hoses/maintenance. Even today I still have all the same hoses, except for the expansion tank hose that came off due to pressure build up, due to wrong diagnosis. In the last three months, put in about 3700 miles and after radiator replacement, all is well with the hoses.

Disagree: Estimate. I never got an estimate from Tahoe diesel until the day before the pickup. All I got was fan clutch and thermostat to replace and anything else that comes up once they find out more. I said ok, replace what you deem necessary and give me back the car repaired. The Friday (7/12) before pick up day when I called to see if all went well and what is cost, he said about $1000.00 and asked me to pick up the car Saturday (7/13) before noon. I asked him to send me an itemized estimate with parts and labor, said he would write it down and have it ready when I came in. I was ok with it. When I went to pick up the car at 2PM, he said its wall done and good to go home. Asked me to replace all the other hoses, etc. for maintenance. Thanked him for his service and paid the amount.

When I called [redacted] at Tahoe Diesel, the following day after I got home with the much worse engine overheating/coolant leaking issue (the reason I went to Tahoe Diesel to get fixed), [redacted] said take it to any NAPA auto care (NAC) center in my area and they will take care of it as their work was under warranty. So I took it to ECONO Lube, who are part of NAC.

[redacted] Lube said they will fix the above problem. On the day of picking up my car, [redacted] from [redacted] Lube said he talked to NAC and Tahoe Diesel and none of them would pay for his repair charges and was holding my car until payment was made. Called [redacted] and he said he would pay $90 for diagnosis and nothing else. After further asking him about his warranty and asking him should I go after his insurance to settle this and asking him for his insurance carrier details, he said he would refund the labor he incurred and said he would mail a check right away. Never did for two weeks until I called him to find out where he was with the check and said he would have to mail a paper for me to sign, before he can send the check.

Did [redacted] Lube do the job right? No they replaced few more unnecessary parts and charged labor two times for the same repair.

If Tahoe Diesel, did the job right in the first place, [redacted] lube would not be in the picture.

Since they didn't do the job right in the first place, but if it was atleast covered per their "peace of mind" NAPA Auto Care Warranty, I would not have to spend another $2,000.00+ to get it finally fixed for the same overheating/coolant leak issue.

Tahoe Diesel, being the experts with years of experience should have taken responsibility and guided [redacted] Lube and challenged anything they think was not right. [redacted] asked me for a copy of their invoice before agreeing to pay $90 for the diagnosis and was sent to him right away. Had to call him a few times to see if he got it and is he going to reimburse ECONO for the repair charges.