Thunder Road Street Rods & Customs

Review: This is to file a complaint against Thunder Road Street Rods, [redacted] for inferior quality work and not completing an automotive modified restoration as agreed to. [redacted] and I met three times in the early fall of 2010 prior to the start of the project, reviewing a budget for the total cost. (See copy of original four page spec sheet and estimate attached). After all the reviews it was agreed it would be no less than $28,800 but no greater than $40,000. [redacted] assured me several times, both in the beginning, as well as several times through the early part of the project that the total would not exceed the cost of a new truck with like options. He said I could help with the project, which I did, but all costs were figured in with him doing all the work. He had no other projects in his shop and I was given the impression that it would be completed by mid 2011. The truck & parts trucks were delivered in October 2010. He had me sign one of his contracts (see copy attached).

I am not going to go through the time line of events at this time but I am willing to provide it later. Where are we at today? The truck is in my garage not complete. The cost to date is $73,581 with an estimate of $ 3500 more to complete for a total of $77,081. (See review of cost to build attached) I have invested 538 hours myself in this project ([redacted] recommended I keep track of my time in the beginning which I did).

What are the complaints-?

The engine failed after 5 miles of driving. The cause appears to be the gas was contaminated by an unknown substance that seized the intake valves leading to parts breaking inside the motor. During the assembly process, [redacted] insisted he would not start the engine. What was his reason?

[redacted] never fit test the tailgate before final assembly. After final paint by [redacted] it was discovered the gate wouldn't fit and the gate was ultimately determined to be unusable. Cost for everything to replace with a good gate was in excess of $1000.00.

Parts bought and /or delivered are missing and or lost. [redacted] states he doesn't have any more of my parts. Approximately $500 of duplicate parts have been purchased so far and some may not be replaceable. An example of a non- replaceable part is a rare Ford accessory horn unit which was removed from the truck when [redacted] disassembled it but has not been seen by me since.

Conclusion-1 have an incomplete truck that has been in progress for 2 Vi years. The cost is $37,000 in excess of original high estimate. I have paid for 753 hours plus invested 538 hours myself in a project that was supposed to take 300 hours total. A year ago, [redacted] indicated that after [redacted] finished painting the outside that he would do the final assembly for free as soon as he had space available in his shop. He has NEVER contacted me since. His website shows that several projects have been in the shop since mine.

This whole debacle has caused much family distress and some members would like me to sell it and get it out of our life. A dream has turned into a nightmare. If the cost/facts had been accurately represented, I would NOT have started the project.

Thank you for mediating this.

The cost and time were excessively misrepresented. It is well in excess of the original estimate even with me contributing considerable time. ($77,000 versus $40,000)

The paint work and pre paint work [redacted] did was not to industry standards. When the truck was delivered to have the exterior painted by [redacted], (as [redacted] recommended [redacted] paint it) [redacted] said he wouldn't paint it until numerous primer paint problems were fixed. [redacted] spent about 1 % weeks correcting the problems. In addition, where the inside of the cab and underside of the truck were final painted by [redacted], others in the auto body business have stated [redacted]'s work looks amateurish; it has dry spots in many places, excess orange peel in others, and dirt and dust showing in the paint.

Other mechanics have had to redo the brakes and steering column that [redacted] assembled as they were put together incorrectly.Desired Settlement: 1) 100% of the labor expense including [redacted]'s wages in excess of original high labor estimate. Amount--$19,660 (I have already put in 538 hours that [redacted] should have covered)

2) 50% of the paint & materials expense including [redacted]'s in excess of original high materials estimate -$1534.

3) Return of all missing parts. If the horn unit can not be returned, then $1000 compensation in addition to the $500 already spent. Possible total--$1500

4) 100 % reimbursement of future cost to have all doorjambs, under hood, underside, and inside cab be buffed out and/or repainted by [redacted]. Cost unknown at this time.

5) $1000 reimbursement for tailgate problems.

Total request for reimbursement $23,700 (rounded) plus [redacted]'s future time and materials.

At this time I do not believe [redacted] has the integrity to complete the task of any additional work he commits to.

I also request that any and all pictures that [redacted] took of my project be given to me, that no pictures or references, or opinions to this project or me be used in his personal or business activities, promotion, face book, and/or website.

Business

Response:

I did meet with [redacted] several times before signing the contract enclosed to discuss work that was needed to be done on his vehide. [redacted] wrote his own estimate, for his own vehicle, for his budget. I told him I would do my best to stay within his budget, however, I told [redacted] that there is no way to determine final cost of a complete restoration on a vehide prior to working on the vehide and during the work on the vehide. I do not give written estimates and ail work done and charges applied on any dients vehide is based on time, parts, materials and Washington State Department of Revenues 8.3% tax on all parts, materials, and labor, as is stated in the contract agreed upon and signed by [redacted] on 10/17/2010. [redacted] says H1 agreed that the cost of the build would be no less than $28,800, but no greater than $40,000". I never agreed to these figures and there is nothing in writing that I agreed to these figures.

[redacted] made it dear that he wanted to work on his truck in order to help keep costs down. He even made a list of things he wanted to do that he felt he was able to do. Against my partners concern, I welcomed him into my shop, and allowed him to use my power supply, my tools, and my guidance at no charge to [redacted]. While [redacted] was working in my shop to keep costs down for him, the working process created addditionl work for me to dean up at the end of the day at no charge to him. The first time [redacted] brought out his budget sheet during the build was 3/18/11.1 asked if there was any problems and he assured me there was none and it was just for my files. When I asked [redacted] if he wanted the frame to be painted or powder coated, [redacted] told me he wanted the frame to be painted not powder coated. (Powder coating is most cost effective if you are trying to keep costs down.) [redacted] also chose to have the underside of the cab, pickup bed, and front fenders painted, as per request by [redacted], not undercoated like most drlver/work trucks would be. This was dedded after work was started. He chose the more expensive route. There are many more decisions that [redacted] made during the build that made changes to the original conversations, and which in turn, increased the cost of the build. The pickup box that [redacted] purchased from Pasco Auto Wrecking was in need of extensive work as well as modification for dual fuel tanks which also increased the cost of work done.

In July of 2011 [redacted] confronted me and explained to me that his wife was very upset over the fact that the truck had gone so far over his projected budget and he may just have to sell it "as is". I told [redacted] that if he tried to sell the truck unfinished, he would not get even close to what he had invested in the rebuild at that time. He asked if I would take a break from working on the truck, for a while so they can think about ft. I told [redacted], that would be fine, and if he wanted I could store the truck it in my shop, for him until he made a dedsion. I did not charge him any storage fees that I could have charged per our contract, during the months his truck was stored in my shop while I was not working on it due to the fact that they were discussing money issues. In November of 2011 [redacted] explained to me that his wife still was not happy but the truck needed to be finished. Again at this point, there had been no discussion or concerns about the quality or standards of work that had been done on the truck prior to this point

[redacted] had me remove dents and inperfections between the cab and box that would not be seen, increasing costs. [redacted] did the majority of block sanding the primer on the entire truck, even though he was not experienced at it, to keep the costs down. January of 2012,1 assisted him in block sanding one time, before it went to [redacted]'s shop for paint.

February of 2012 was the last time [redacted]'s truck was in my shop. April 2012,1 had a meeting with [redacted] at my shop and told him I would help him out by putting the rest of the truck together at no charge, after the final paint was done at another shop, but the truck needed to be running and driveable and he was not going to be able to work on it in my shop. I never heard back from [redacted] that the truck was painted, drivable and ready to come back to my shop for final assembly as discussed. He took the vehicle down to another shop to have them complete the work at a lower labor rate. This was his choice. I have not heard anything from [redacted] about setting up a time to bring the truck back to our shop for final assembly as agreed upon at no charge. So I assumed he just chose to have the other shop finish the paint and final assembly instead of transporting the truck back to our shop after final paint, for me to do the final assembly.

[redacted] contacted me one more time asking if I had his horns and door locks and never mentioned transfering the truck back to our shop for final assembly. Now [redacted] daims there are additional parts that are missing. I told him that all the parts had been removed by him whether during the build or at the final removal of the truck from our shop and I currently have no parts of his in my possession.

[redacted] never contacted me about any complications with the brakes or steering column. Once again the vehide was removed from our shop prior to all the work being completed, all parts tested, fitted and assembled. If he wanted us to finish all the work then he should not have pulled the truck from the shop before all these things could be done to assure a complete build.

I refused to start the truck engine, because I did not build the engine and the builder of the engine was supposed to start the engine so that he could make any adjustments to the engine valves, carburetor, or timing at the starting of the engine. [redacted] had the truck removed from my shop before the exhaust sytem was installed. The starting and testing of the engine needs to be done after the exhaust is installed and therefore I was not responsible for starting the engine and testing it after [redacted] chose to remove the truck from my shop, if the truck had been in my shop at the point of engine start and testing I would have required that the engine builder be at my shop and responsible for starting and testing the engine that he rebuilt.

As far as the tailgate I was not informed of any fitting issues as well as I am not responsible for fitting or function of parts that the owner supplies. This fitting would normally take place before it is painted. I did not paint the tailgate, and the vehide was no longer in my shop at the time it was to be fitted prior to paint.

I have copies of all invoices that I billed to [redacted] as well as copies of his payments during the course of the build while the truck was in my possession. I received many compliments from [redacted] himself, [redacted]'s children, employee's, and [redacted] on how the truck was looking. I did have conversations with [redacted] about the high cost of rebuilding his vehide, but until July of 2011 and February of 20121 was never asked to stop work on the truck. [redacted] always paid his bill in a timely manner. I see nothing that would make me consider refunding any money for labor, materials, or work that another shop has preformed or will perform. I cannot control the cost of materials or what another shops opinion of my work may be. I am sorry if this has caused the Zediker family any hardship but if you cannot afford to have a custom vehide built, then you should not hire someone to do so.

Every Restoration shop has different workers with different skill levels and different years of experience behind them. Every individual person has different ways to do their work and standards for the quality of their work. Every worker can choose to pick apart another workers quality of work. [redacted] wanted the rebuild to be period correct. Therefore you cannot compare industry standards for todays standards of a new vehicle off a assembly line with a vehicle that was originally built in 1976.

As far as the pictures are concerned, I would be happy to make [redacted] a C/D copy of any and all pictures I took of his truck while it was at my shop. I will remove any and all photos from any advertisement media such as Facebook, video display, etc. and agree not to use any photos for any future advertising and media use.

If the money was truly the issue, the project should have stopped back at his maximum allowable budget and he should not have given me the go ahead to continue beyond his budget. Quite often these projects start out as one concept and then changes to another and another and another, because owners change their minds, buy different parts, make choices that were not originally decided upon and change there minds about a number of things. Sometimes these changes lower the cost but most of the time they raise the cost There are also a number of unforseeable things that need to be adressed during the tear down and restoration that can increase the cost during a build. Things come up that could not have been seen under the original paint. The cost of materials and parts go up routinly and that means the cost to the owner goes up. This is exactly why we do not give written estimates, because it is impossible for us to give a custmer a accurate estimate at the beginning of a build. A lot of owners forget to put the 8.3% sales tax into their budget, 8.3% can add up real fast and take a lot of money out of the owners original buget.

During the entire time [redacted]'s truck was in my shop there were never any complaints about the quality and workmanship of the work I did on the truck while the truck was in my possession. The truck left my shop unfinished, not by my choice but by [redacted]'s. [redacted] chose to take the truck to [redacted]'s shop to have the final paint work done since [redacted]'s labor rate was less than mine, again it was [redacted]'s choice. I have not had any contact with [redacted] in about a year. If he was unhappy with the quality of my work why hasn't he tried to call, or stop by the shop to express his concernes so that I would have had an opportunity to address the cituation?

See attached copy of contract signed by both [redacted] and I.

Copies of any and all invoices, payments, and statements are available upon request.

Consumer

Response:

I have reviewed the response made by the business in reference to complaint ID [redacted], and have determined that this does not resolve my complaint. For your reference, details of the offer I reviewed appear below.

The question is "Are you going to try to stand by your word or are you going to hide behind a contract?"

Let's get some facts correct. Before we started the project, you knew there was a limit as to what I wanted to spend for this project. You assured me that you could do it for around this $40,000.00 estimate. You, yourself said you could do it for the cost of a like equipped new truck. When I had spent approximately $32,000.00, you and I reviewed the budget again. You said it would be a little more than $40,000.00 but would be close.

When I had spent approximately $48,000.00,1 was going to stop work and had a trailer lined up to haul the truck from your shop. You insisted that I keep the truck there because you wanted to see this project through to completion. I asked you to make another estimate of labor to complete the project and you said roughly $6,000 dollars. You kept leading me on saying we were close to finishing and as soon as it was painted it would go together quickly. The truck went to [redacted]'s because you said he was a better painter and had better facilities, not primarily because of cost reasons. You agreed that you would finish the balance after paint with no labor charge. You did request that it be running, but, you said it could stay at your shop. You would phone when you had an opening. [redacted] told me later that you told him you had no intention of doing any more work on it.

Fact-Parts are missing that you had at your shop and I haven't gotten them back.

Fact-1 did compliment you on various parts of your work because you deserved it. But, when you put on seam sealer on the cab and final red paint on the dash and other parts I questioned you about the quality, dirt, and orange peel. Shortly afterward you polished out the dash and said the other pieces would be polished when the final paint on the outside was done improving the quality. I took you at your word and figured it would be corrected later.

Fact-You stated powder coating the frame was more expensive and said painting was a better route in this situation.

Fact-We went together to purchase the bed for the truck. You recommended that I purchase it because it was a good bed.

Fact-You never said anything about me not being able to work in your shop further.

Fact-The gas in the fuel tank got contaminated and ruined the engine. The truck was only at four different locations through the rebuilding process: your shop, [redacted]'s shop, my garage, and the exhaust shop for 4 hours. Where did it get contaminated?

Fact-The tailgate was purchased by me but under your direction. You were in charge of body work and making things fit correctly. You primed the tailgate and I only block sanded it.

More facts could be listed but this is the bottom line.

Obviously there are differences in memories of what was said and promised. I hope you are not having a selective memory right now like you did with [redacted], when you failed to tell her until after 3 years of marriage that you had had a serious altercation with someone.

[redacted], this is about standing by your work and fulfilling promises even when they would adversely affect you. You said [redacted] has told you that you have poor communication issues. This is yet another example of those issues.

I am asking for my parts back, pictures, and compensation for your gross miscalculation of your labor to complete the task.

You now have the opportunity to see what the value of your word really is. How are you going to respond?

Regards,

Business

Response:

I am standing by my word, the quality of work that I do and my business contract that clearly states that we do not give written estimates and that I work on a time, plus materials, plus parts and Washington State Taxes that you signed and agreed upon. You had a budget for yourself and it is clear that the actual cost of the restoration and modifications of your truck has exceeded your estimated budget that you set for yourself at the beginning of the restoration. Things that you decided to add and or change along the way during this restoration job added costs for labor, parts, materials and state taxes. We are also not responsible for work done by the vehicle owner, other body shops, alignment shops, glass shops, upholstery shops, mechanics, engine builders and what they charged you and how that plays into your budget.

Before we started on this modified restoration project we discussed a lot of information about your truck, what you wanted done and your budget. You had informed me that you wanted your finished truck to be reliable daily driver, but did not want to worry about driving it on gravel and dirt roads or in and around your orchards and farm land. You said you wanted a daily driver work truck. Some clients want an award winning show truck that gets trailered to all the car shows and rarely gets driven on the road. Daily driver work trucks usually do not cost as much as trailered show cars. You started out wanting a daily driver, but made decisions and choices along the way during the restoration, that increased the cost from the original discussions and details that made the costs go up, in which turn, took you out of your designated original budget and now you have a drivable show truck.

Yes, I do know that you had set a budget for yourself for this restoration. There is no way that I would ever be able to give you an accurate written estimate for work that was to be done as discussed in the original conversations about your truck. This is why we do not give written estimates. There is also no way I can compare the cost of a projected full restoration and modification of a 1976 [redacted] F150 to the cost of a "like new equipped truck". You had every opportunity to have us stop working on your truck, if and when you reached your budgeted amount that you wanted to spend on the restoration. When you did discuss with me your concerns that you were at the $48,000 mark, I offered, not insisted, to allow you to keep the truck at my shop while you decided on whether you were going to continue the restoration or try to sell the vehicle as is. Keep in mind that your total figure you had spent on the truck so far at that point was $48,000. The amount at that point that you had been billed out and had paid in full from my shop for the hourly labor, parts, materials and Washington State Taxes as of 7-25-2011 was only $28,059.83. Your truck sat in my shop without me working on it starting in August of 2011. Of course I wanted to see the project through to completion. At that time, I was getting closer to the point of painting the truck, and then the final assembly to complete the restoration and modifications that you wanted. I then continued working on the truck as you wanted me to do in November of 2011, after you decided not to sell it. I never led you on, as you say. Once the truck was painted by [redacted] then the final assembly would have gone together quickly. You never called me to let me know that the truck had been painted and was running and ready to be brought back to my shop for final assembly. I did agree to do the final assembly at no labor charge to you but you never contacted me or brought the truck back to my shop for me to complete the final assembly. Since you never called me, I assumed that you had just decided to have [redacted] finish the final assembly at his shop instead of returning the truck back to my shop.

All parts pertaining to your truck restoration and modifications were returned to you. I have thoroughly looked though my shop and on my property for any parts that may still be here, and have found none. I have no reason to want any of your parts and I do not have room to keep any of your parts, so I made sure they were all returned to you within the multiple loads of parts removed off my property. As to where they are now, I am sorry, but I do not know of their location.

You removed the truck from my shop and took it down to [redacted]'s shop for [redacted] to paint it. At that time, there was no indication to me that you had any problems, concerns or issues with the quality of the work that I had done on your truck as of that date. If there were any concerns, problems or issues that you had with the quality of the work I had done on your truck, you should have let me know at that time, so I would have had an opportunity to explain, address and or fix any problems. There is a lot of finishing detail work that gets done at the end of the project, right before final paint and right after final paint, and during the assembly process. I was not given the opportunity to finish the detail work, which I would have if you had not pulled the truck from my shop and or returned it to my shop, after it was painted, as originally agreed upon.

You had a choice to either have the frame powder coated or painted and you chose to have me paint the frame. If you wanted to keep the costs down, it would have been cheaper to have the frame powder coated.

We did go together to purchase the bed for the truck. I did recommend that you purchase that truck bed because it was a "good" bed. However, I never said it was a "perfect" bed and that it did not need any additional work done on it for the restoration process. Trying to find a "perfect" 1976 truck bed is very difficult. We both searched for a long time and decided that the bed you bought was in the best condition and would need the least amount of work done on it. So you bought it.

I am sorry that the gas in your fuel tank got contaminated and ruined your engine. I did not put gas in either of your fuel tanks. Both of your fuel tanks were empty when the truck left my shop. One of your fuel tanks was new and purchased by you. The other fuel tank was a used fuel tank that was removed from one of three parts trucks that were disassembled and used to build your truck. You chose to clean the inside and outside of the used fuel tank. There was used fuel lines also used in the restoration of your truck that you chose to clean prior to installation. I only painted the outside surface and installed both the fuel tanks and the fuel lines. As you stated, the truck was at four different locations during the build. We do not know any information about where the used fuel tank or fuel lines had been or if it had ever had contaminated gas in it prior to its purchase as a used parts truck. I did not rebuild your engine. I did not start your engine. You removed the truck before the restoration got to the point of starting the engine. 1 have no idea how or when your gas, in your fuel tanks got contaminated and or how or why it ruined your engine.

As for the tailgate issue, you removed the truck from my shop before the time of final fit prior to it getting painted. I was not aware of any issues with the final fit of the tailgate just prior to it being painted by another shop. If I was doing the final paint, I would have made sure the tailgate fit properly, just prior to the final paint.

I do stand behind my work and I did not make any promises to you.

Our last invoice for work done at our shop was dated 2-10-2012. As of that date you had been billed for invoices totaling $36,952.65. You had paid all of your balances in full and you removed the truck from my shop to be finished elsewhere. To the best of my knowledge you were a happy and satisfied customer. I was surprised to hear a year and a half later that there are all these concerns and problems. I am sorry your build did not go as you originally planned and cost you more then you originally budgeted.

Owner of Thunder Road Street Rods & Customs

Consumer

Response:

I have reviewed the response made by the business in reference to complaint ID [redacted], and have determined that this does not resolve my complaint. For your reference, details of the offer I reviewed appear below.

It does not appear that this complaint can be settled using the Revdex.com program. We are pursuing other avenues to resolve this now. Please close this case as unresolved in your files.

Sincerely,

[redacted]. [redacted]