Twin Motors, Inc.

Revdex.com,
I hate to have repeat myself and waste additional time on this person, but let me reiterate and sum it all up again!
Mr*** found our exceptionally clean and nice condition SAAB on the internetHe traveled quite a distance to evaluate itAfter several hours of his personal evaluation with multiple test drives,determined that he would purchase the car at a discounted price, From N.A.D.Avalue of $down to $he paidIt was the best one he had found in a long search! He also purchased an extended warranty to go with the car, knowing the issues the car could haveBecause the used car dealer has NO liability or responsibility unless notedHe signed a buyers guide acknowledging thatKeep in mind this is a ten year old car with over 100,miles of use and wearA dealer can't have complete knowledge of what a used piece of equipment will doHe had no mechanical complaint about the car at first contact the next MondayHis complaint was about his fiancé giving him a hard time about buying itA week later When he made me aware of the wheels being bent according to his mechanic, I offered to switch them with another SAAB we have in stockHe did not take the offerHe did not take any of the help I offered! He prefers to complain about everything all over the internet apparentlyOn what I believe is his company's time based on time and date stampsHe seems to enjoy costing people time and money! I may have to contact his employer and see If they agree with his use of company timeTBD
We did not Misrepresent anything and we did not force the pen to his hand to enter into a legal binding contract and he drove the car away after purchase on his own accord
The other references he makes about his other car, his income, credit reference, complaining that carfax or autocheck gave reference to previous milage, etc.,etc., They are all completely irrelevantHe has made so many accusations in his letter I can't and won't dignify them by a response because unlike him, I don't have all day to waste on thisThis guy is completely unrealistic and a royal pain!
Fortunately, We have a huge happy customer base and I hope that anyone that reads his complaint reads between the lines to see what he is all about!
Thank you,
*** ***
President
P.SThis is our final comment in this guys matterPlease read attached buyers guide docs

Revdex.com:
I have reviewed the response made by the business in reference to complaint ID ***, and have determined that this does not resolve my complaint. For your reference, details of the offer I reviewed appear below
One of the first things I expected from Twin Motor's response was for them to pat themselves on the back for how long they've been in business and with only complaintsThis is as irrelevant as any company, judge, politician, father, wife or husband stating the same, who go years without doing anything wrong who then for some reason, slip up just once, and badly, and to the chagrin of employees, customers or family and usually there is some consequences; it only takes once doesn't itThis plays itself out in society every dayBusinesses are not churches, places where we seek out morality, they are self-sustaining/self-serving entities where we have to sometimes go to find products we need/want, and we should be cautious of themWhen there is failure in this exchange, there is usually something at the root of it, greed, desperation a momentary lapse of reason/responsibility, and it has to work itself outAny online tools or information people give you, regarding buying a used car or brand new car warn you to be cautious of car dealers, used car dealers especially, and this story is full of reasons why this is true.Now, the second thing I expected Twin Motor's was to take some liberty with the truth and try to challenge my credibilityAnd to answer to this, I have provided all the pertinent documentation that defends my points and clears up some of the haze and smoke Twin Motors is using to confuse the situationOne thing I will do is apologize for thinking they were open until PMI didn't spend a lot of time going on about it in my initial complaint, but I wasn't the only customer in the lot that Saturday wondering where they were once I arrived back in their lot 4/4(shortly after purchasing the vehicle)So, we were all wondering where they were, togetherWhat is attached are all my email communications with *** *** and *** ***, the AutoCheck provided by *** before I got to the store, and the receipts containing the amounts and work done on the car since purchased (both from NTB and SAAB).So, I did tell *** and *** I have been looking for a vehicle for a while, Saab's and other's, to replace my current get-around vehicle, a 'Saab 900S with 285kI know of the quality, have had the vehicle for years and with consistent service it has rarely let me done, so I had been wrestling recently with possibly investing money in it to keep it going or finding something elseThe reason I went to Twin Motors is because they had a vehicle I was interested in, and mostly the 'Saab Aero, and based on the documentation they had, based on the mileage, the pictures online it looked to be in pretty good conditionNow it's almost sad how the owner sounds like he is complaining for his dealership and *** for all the trouble I put them through, but make no mistake, he hadn't acknowledged 80% of my complaintI drove miles to a dealership to see this car, and the first problem I found with the car was that the mileage on the AutoCheck report was almost 10,less than the actualThe AutoCheck report said 96K and the actual was 105KNow I don't know if I need to explain to the person reading this letter what those services do for consumers, but AutoCheck and CarFax tell us about the service the car receives throughout the life of the car and other pertinent informationIf nothing has been reported for 10,miles, I don't know exactly what that meansSo, without up to date AutoCheck information, I had to spend more time getting to know the car from the salesperson point of view, take additional test drives; so yes, I grilled and interviewed and asked for as much information from the salesperson as the salesperson could provideHe tells me he didn't have service records for the vehicleHe also told me the owner, *** ***, that his son drove the car for a while; said the son put something like 6,milesAnd when we took it for a test drive, it started up fine and drove fine it seemed, except for some vibrations that I thought were coming from behind the firewallFrom that moment on, *** ***, would assure me that the car just needed tires and a good balanceI had no problem with that, if that is all it was, and I trusted that they knew what they were talking aboutBut as I stated in my initial complaint, when I took it to 65-mph on highway, I was so concerned I turned around and parked that car back in their lot and drove home in my older carNow *** seems to chide me about how I shouldn't buy used cars and expecting perfectionBut this shows how disconnected he is from realityAnyone that can tolerate what I do with my 285K mile car, isn't expecting perfectionBut I did feel better driving my old car homeAnd I don't knowHis disconnect from reality continues because he seems to think I enjoy this conflictThis is the most frustrating thing, to get shanked by a dealerThis has never happenedMost times all I ever bought were year old cars and I know what I am getting into. There is something that really needs to be made clear here and it is right there in my email to ***, that same day, in the eveningWhy did I try returning it miles down the road, why did I beg them to take this back? It has nothing to do with honoring commitmentsI was worried about the engine or transmission, and that the vibrations were coming from behind the firewall, and I was worried about having to spend a lot of money on this car right out the door trying to find out what the problem is, which didn't make any sense, and this also was going to be an issue for my fiancé*** and I talked about the car and returning it and I told him, having talked to the bank, they said it's up to Twin Motor'sBut *** *** was going to charge me 500$ to take it back; loss of profit and other reasonsI was very upset about thatNow, *** writes me on 4/and again talks about the tires, "As for the SaabI drove it and my mechanic checked it out and we have determined that the tires had flat spots from sitting and or tire balance*** pointed out on test drive the tires are not newI believe that they are a softer compound tire." And that conversation about tires and balancing would continue throughout the day on the phone as wellNow with those assurances I relented and decided to pick the car back up and calm down, instead of paying 500$ to end the dealLater that evening I brought the car home. The first day I had the vehicle in my possession the car would not startAnd my initial complaint has all the rest of the details from that point on, so no need to repeat myself.One of the most disconcerting things about this experience is the disconnect ***, the owner of a business, has about this situationClose to the end of our communications, he actually calls me wishy-washy and insults my intelligence in those emails and does the same his reply to Revdex.com complaint, says I am making stuff upEverything is documented in the copies of receipts I included in attachmentsYou can see even in the balancing and alignment that the toe is still out and it's only close to specs in the rear tires. So something happened to that 'Aero to cause rims to still be out even after a wheel balance and alignmentMy 'Saab has 285k and all it's original wheels and I do not have this issueI have spent 2000$ to try and resolve this vibration issueAnd the next attempt to resolve this issue involves approximately 1000$ in labor, just to diagnose. In conclusion, There is no way, based on the deterioration of the fuel check valve, "disintegrated" "gone" "not there" (description of the problen from Saab) that that the car I purchased from Twin Motors was starting every day before I purchased the vehicleIf I had gone up to see that Saab Aero on April 4th, and it didn't start on the first try? I would have walked awaySomeone had to have started it before I arrived. The car only starts after the car has warmed up, and with the pressure built up, fuel is in the fuel lineThe check valve keeps pressure built up in the line when it sits a while, so there is a readysupply of fuel to the system regardless temperature or time between operation. If Twin Motors denied there were vibrations or couldn't claim a source, explanation or reason for the vibrations I would have walked away.Instead I received constant assurances about the vibrations being related to the car needing tires and wheels balanced only. They do not have the equipment on site nor did they have the expertise to make such diagnosis, and I didn't find this out until 4/There was a discrepancy between the AutoCheck report and the actual milesI drove up to see a car with 96K that, based on the report was in ***tucky for most of it's lifeI did not know it had received 10,more miles on it, and it was in Ohio, and driven by the owner's son until I arrived at their storeThey did not offer service records when I asked and "in-house" service is not the same as Saab ServiceThis likely means some guy who knows something about cars is milling about under the hood.Lastly,Most of what *** *** says in response to the Revdex.com complaint defies common sense and he is just ranting and doesn't know what he's talking about. *** ***:"Taking it to SAAB to worked on...Saab dealers went out of business in about or so">*** ***: Saab Automobile went out of business in 2012, Saab Parts is still in business and thriving and *** *** *** is one of two facilities in Ohio that still employs Saab Certified Technicians (attached bill confirms what I am saying and they can be contacted for all means of verification).*** is a phone call away from learning this information himself, and surprised he doesn't know being in the used car industry and with Saab's for sale on his lotThis is the disconnect I am talking about.*** ***:"feels great sorrow for any dealer or other person selling a vehicle in the future that has to deal with him."*** ***:I have a 749+ credit score, have great relationships with my banks, credit card companies, and with previous auto loan lenders and my current lender, *** *** on my RAM TruckMaybe just Twin Motors was desperate to unload a car that had been sitting for months, knowing only a previous Saab owner would buy it, once I showed up, they would have said anything to get me to buy that carAnd they did say anything, and left important things out, like "it doesn't start up like cars, just thought you should know"They have been saying "sucker" ever since I bought the car"Sorry", "Buyer Beware", "you knew the risks"*** ***: "should not sign legal binding contracts for items he has no intention of keeping in the state of Ohio"*** ***: *** should do the right thing, take back ownership of this vehicle and deal with it himself, and first and foremost quit diverting all attention towards me as if this is my faultI don't go to dealerships expecting to get ripped off or have to spend thousands trying to fix the apparent damage or neglect or substandard service given to the vehicle under his ownership.*** ***: "It is the customers responsibility in this state to know what he or she is buyingHe complained of not having record of maintenance records onlineWe don't do retail service work, only preparing our inventory for saleWe don't put that online and I emailed a doc of the service history we had in-houseSo he has the information he says he doesn't."*** ***: What is a used car dealers responsibility in the state of Ohio? is there none, no accountability, sell at all costs? You should get a blip on your recordThe car is not yet fixed, and won't start...and the costs just keep going up? People need to know this.I'll say it again, I make a decent living, have pretty good credit, and all I was trying to do was find a car that was better than my old car.Why would I ever expect you were going to lie about everything and I can still only drive my older car?Talk of commitments and me being wishy-washy? This was fraud..Do the right thing...take the car back and fix what you or your son brokeAnd pay me back for helping you restore that vehicle.That's the right thing here.
Regards,
*** ***

Revdex.com:
I have reviewed the response made by the business in reference to complaint ID ***, and have determined that this does not resolve my complaint. For your reference, details of the offer I reviewed appear below
To tell you the truth, I don't even know how to respond to Twin Motors except to keep pointing tothe factsIf I had any concerns about the type of dealership this was or what kind of people they were or what kind of problems they were going to pass off to me, they have all been confirmed by nowThreatening to go after my job because of my complaints and reviews about my experience withTwin Motors, and my occasional blogging activity? *** *** is worried about the costs to him and my employer after I've already spent$trying to discover what's actually wrong with this car? And I am still driving my old car to work?Would I have had any reason to contact the Revdex.com had Twin Motor's acted as an honest broker? No.If *** had actually done the right thing and ta*** the car back, without fee, why would I have reasonto complainIn this case, Twin Motors taking the car back was the only solution to the problemBelow I explain why.*** ***, *** ***, of Twin Motors, had every opportunity to come clean aboutthe car's "actual" condition during those long hours they claim I wasted on their lotThey didn't provide service records until weeks after the purchase, what else didI have to go on but their wordAn AutoCheck Report on the vehicle was given to methat said 96K miles and it's actualy mileage was 105K? And the fact that the car wouldn't start once I took it home? All the issues found withthe car beyond tires and balancing? This was a disgraceful situation and this should never have happenedWhy was I so lucky?I don't know if he's disconnected from reality or it's tacticts used to confuse people, but the relationship *** has to this vehicle is unique, not completely rare, but uniqueThis is what I know to be true:> *** *** BOUGHT THIS CAR FOR HIS SON> *** *** HELD THE TITLE, OWNED, OPERATED AND SERVICED THE VEHICLE> *** *** WAS THE LAST DOCUMENTED OWNER OF THE VEHICLE I PURCHASED*** cannot claim, he's just "a dealer of used equipment" and can't knowor predict what this equipment is going to do.As previous owner, he has every obligation to disclose all facts relatedto the vehicleInstead, he took advantage of the situation, and a niche market buyer, and did everything he could to procure a sale; including lying about it's condition, lie or fail to disclose pertinent mechanical problems with the vehicle.*** claims I didn't complain about any mechanical issues until 4/6, but seems to have forgotten they constantly diverted any mechanical issues and questions raised about the vehicle, on test drives and during the signing of the paperwork, to tires and balancingI actually emailed *** about potential mechanical issues on 4/4, the same day I bought the car,because I returned the car and they had to know where I put the keys so they could retrieve them.Why an email? Because *** said he was on his phone constantly on account of work (car sales) during a test drive we took together; "I am constantly emailing, texting and talking to people on the phone"I had no doubt *** would have received the email, and that he would have sent it to his brother or whatever *** ***'s relation is to *** actually responded Monday, 4/6, to the email I sent *** on 4/All this evidence is uploaded to Revdex.com and availableto Revdex.com and Twin Motors, as are all the mechanical issues found since the purchase.But then we get to the main question; *** keeps going on about how great, exceptional and cleanthis car is, but, why then was this vehicle discarded by *** and his son after only 6,or so miles?The picture gets more clear from the complaints I've written and the current service records.Car doesn't start, car was improperly serviced, possible accident and damage to power train and unreported/unrecorded damage; bent rims, damaged nose, wasted cradle bushings, fuel check valve missing, turbo tube not connected, coolant leakage at water pumpService records( a single, two-fingered typed page ) were provided weeks after the saleOne can only surmise that *** *** got in over his head; he purchased a relatively highend vehicle for his son, who literally ran it into the ground, and instead of doing anythingto maintain or repair the vehicle, offered it up for sale;but advertised the vehicle, like it was the 96K mile vehicle he bought a few years ago.And see, the owner continues to be dishonest in response when he talks about the N.A.D.A value of the car being at $Anyone can lie about the condition of their vehicle to get a favorableretail value, in N.A.D.A, Kelly Blue Book or Auto CheckThe things is, I haven't even been able to get into the particular problems I've found with the body, interior, because we are still trying to diagnose the cause of the vibration issuesNo matter what *** says, I warn all buyers to take heed to this retail pricing at Twin MotorsThey use this tactic to show you how good a deal you are gettingBut it's smoke and mirrors.Only a Saab 9-Aero, with no mechanical issues, flawless paint and interior and "needs nothing" wouldqualify for the term, exceptionally clean, excellent used car.What is the approximate value of any car that doesn't start? >> Condition-wise you can deduct up to 50% retail valueWe are so far beyond and beneath exceptional and excellent condition it's not even funny.The car was sold to me for $6138, down from the sticker price of $6500, discounted a few hundred dollars because the tires were in bad shapeThe car as I would later find it to be, with all of it's cosmetic and mechanical issues?$3800-What does the N.A.D.A have to do with anything? Absolutely nothingIt's a trick meant to confuse people*** *** is trying to say the car he sold me was worth $and they let me have it for $The car is actually only worth $come to find, and I got shanked for grand,and have spent grand trying to fix itAnd now I need another 1000$ dollar to continue to searchfor the original problem I was concerned about.*** ***, owner and president of Twin Motors also claims I said it was the nicest carI've seen in a while, took that statement a little bit out of contextMy exact words were, "you should see some of the Saab's I've seen over the last few years at some of the dealers in OhioThey are nothing but *** merchants, based on the condition of those vehicles, and more often than not they are the one's who've done a disservice to the brandYour (Twin Motors) two vehicles are the nices I've seen in a while, as they are at least something one might consider buying/test-driving"All I was saying to *** was that I placed them a point above some of the merchants I've been to since I moved to Ohio.You know what I wish? Besides that this never happened? I would have liked to have seen this car before *** bought the carI have no doubt him and his son probably ruined the carBad ownership and bad service will kill a vehicle, especially in the luxury car rangeAnd I told them I didn't get into buying this car to do restoration, and I don't have thousands to fix it, no matter my salary.Outside of the impossibility of going back in time, *** can make all this go away by simply taking the car back and taking responsibility for what he did and didn't do for the carIt's the right thing to doDealers shouldn't be able to get away with thisLet's not forget, he's not just a dealer, he was the previous ownerLastly, Twin Motors is owned and operated by *** *** in Madison, OH*** claims to be president, but it's really only a man operation; this includes ***, *** *** (sales) and some mechanicOn average, they appear to have anywhere from 25-used cars on their lot,dealing in mostly lower end, passenger car marketOn one-hand I had/have no reason to think they don't have good customer relationships and can't transact honestlyThey don't seem likedishonest people or bad peopleAs much time as I spent on their lot, trying to get a sense of the car or them as people, as long as they've been in business, I would haveno reason to believe they were trying to conceal things and screw me overBut for the amount of money I make per year, the fact Saab's are a tough, niche market, I believe Twin Motors did everything they could to move that car, and customer servicetook a back seat that day. I'll say it again:>> If the car did not start or had difficulty starting I wouldn't have bought the carbecause of the nature of the repair, Twin Motors had to have started the car before I arrivedas it would only start after it was running a while and pressure was built up in the fuel line.>> If they denied there were vibrations or couldn't explain the vibrations, I also would have walked awayI can't count how many times they said this was as simple as tires and a balanceBut I can say, it's in the email, they only said once, and weeks after, they didn't have theequipment or expertise to make that diagnosis.>> If the vehicle was sold "AS IS" I wouldn't have bought the vehicle.Simply put, it came with a mile warrantyI would never have signed that deal if there wasn't some guarantee, from the dealership side of things,.If *** takes ownership of this vehicle back, pays me back for the cost of restoration,I will consider this matter resolved and drop any further actionsAnd now, since he finally knows there is still Saab Service and parts offered in Ohio,perhaps he can pay to have fixed what he already knows to be the problem, and offer up that car forsale, legitimately, and without any strings or worry, and restore his dealership's credibility.I have no doubt in my mind, they knew they screwed me and were relieved the car wasfinally out of sight and out of mindIt was probably a shock to their conscienceto see it parked back in their lot same day of saleA reminder, that all the bad stuff you do comes back to haunt you
Regards,
*** ***

As President and owner of Twin Motors for the last 18 years let me start out by saying that this is the second complain that I have had to address with the Revdex.com. A pretty good record for a used car dealer I would say.
Mr. [redacted]" for reference came to my store on a Saturday mid morning...

after driving from about an hour away as he said. Our hours on Saturday's are from 9am to 3pm. Please Note we do close at 3pm sharp on Saturday's unless we are tied up with customers so we can be with our families. He tied up my manager [redacted] until just before we closed at 3pm. He spent several hours at my store vacillating between two SAAB cars that we had in stock. Both were exceptional condition for being 10 and 13 years old. He had expressed to us that his current SAAB had about 300,000 miles on his and how he knew all the things and issues that go wrong with them. I was impressed how much he seemed to know about them and he informed me that he had looked probably 100 or more Saabs as a replacement for his, over his last 100,000 miles. I wondered to myself how someone can have enough time waste and wasting salesmen's time like that. After multiple test drives of these cars he determined that the 2005 that he picked had worn tires and used that as a bargaining chip. We did not disagree about tires and did not assure him anything but agreed that the car had sat for awhile and could have had flat spots in the tires or could be out of round/balance? I informed him we did not have a tire machine and could not check this. He agreed to buy the car knowing this and signed all the legal binding contracts and buyers guide, then took delivery and left with the car. On Monday I found the car was parked in the back of our parking lot and he called me explaining that he got half way home and called his fiancé and got in trouble for adding another payment when he already had a $700 payment on another truck he inadvertently bought and was trying to sell. He asked to return the car and I was reluctant at first because he had wasted half our day and in tying up my manager cost us another sale. I finally agreed to buy this car back from him as under state law it was his car now and not ours. I said I would charge him a $500 fee for doing this. I figured that was a fare amount for our time and effort of re-detailing, re-advertise fees etc. He said he would let me know. He also at that point complained about the car had slight! vibration at 80 miles per hour on the freeway. He picked his car back up on Monday after we closed at 6pm I did also offer to consign his truck that he wanted to get out from under. I didn't hear from him for over a week. Then I get an email from him telling me about [redacted] selling him brakes and he put tires etc. etc... This car was sold as a used car ten years old with over 100,000 miles on it! He knew that and signed all the paperwork acknowledging that! Twin Motors did nothing wrong and represented the car as what it was to the best of our knowledge. It is the customers responsibility in this state to know what he or she is buying. He complained of not having record of maintenance records online. We don't do retail service work, only preparing our inventory for sale. We don't put that online and I emailed a doc of the service history we had in-house. So he has the information he says he doesn't.
Without addressing the "book" [redacted] wrote. Let me just say that most of his complaint is a complaint lie! From returning after business hours and complaining that we had left? Really??? Taking it to SAAB to worked on...Saab dealers went out of business in about 2008 or so. A turbo tube disconnected that never generated a check engine light, a coolant leak that was caused from lack of service! He is just making up things and plastering it all over the internet because he is mad we will not take the car back and pay him for all the retail service he had performed on his six thousand dollar car. He should have bought a new car if that is what he expected to get for his Six grand.
I have withdrawn the offer to help Mr. [redacted] consign his truck he want's to sell. There is a payoff involved and I would be putting my neck on the line for a unrealistic, unappreciative person. I have also told Mr. [redacted] that I do not want his business in the future. I feel great sorrow for any dealer or other person selling a vehicle in the future that has to deal with him. [redacted] should not sign legal binding contracts for items he has no intention of keeping in the state of Ohio. Thank you for your time.
[redacted]
President
Twin Motors Inc.