Re: ID [redacted] ResponseOn February 9th of 2017, We inspected what was claimed to be a leaking window that was a retrofit window application installed at [redacted] Ct, Elk Grove, in January of 2011. At the time of the inspection I saw wet carpet and water damage around the baseboards on the floor. There was no visible water damage to the sheetrock above the baseboards and no evidence of water around the windows. I asked the customer, [redacted] if there had been any water on or around the window sill. She claimed there had not been. If water leaks from windows it almost always shows evidence of the leak on or around the windows, it did not appear to be the actual window itself that was the source of the leak. Coupled with information she gave me that the grade of the backyard sloped toward the house, I told Mrs. [redacted] at that time that the window itself was probably not the source of the leak. A couple weeks later, Mrs. [redacted] called again claiming that we needed to come back out because she now had a contractor who told her the windows were the source of the leak. This time I went to the jobsite with [redacted] (Owner of Werner and Sons). At this time the sheetrock and insulation had been removed from the inside wall. The back side of the flashing paper could be easily inspected. Unfortunately, someone who did not know what they were doing, ripped out some of this flashing paper in a blind attempt to figure out where the leak was coming from. In doing so that wall became compromised. Any leak in the wall that may have existed would certainly be much worse now. Despite the new problem with the compromised flashing I carefully examined the backside of the wall under the windows. Now that there was no sheetrock it was quite clear to see that no water had been running down the inside of the flashing under the windows. The only evidence of water damage was on the floor and on the baseboards. The backside of the flashing looked pristine and a subsequent water test showed that no water was penetrating through the flashing anywhere around the windows. As neither the retrofit window, nor the original frame showed any evidence of leaking it appeared the most likely source of the leak was from the ground after water test where performed.Mrs. [redacted] has probably heard from various contractors that her windows are the source of the leak and as such she believes reinstalling or repairing the windows will fix her leak problem. Unfortunately it is my opinion that replacing or repairing the windows will not stop her leak!In a letter from [redacted] of New Visions to [redacted] he offered to repair the leaking windows for $4,550. In his letter he states that the problem comes from one of three areas. He stated one possibility is the caulking of the retrofit window on the exterior has failed. If that is true there should be evidence of the leak on the window sill, not just on the floor. There was no evidence of any water ever having come inside the window onto the interior jamb or sill. According to Steve another possibility is the interior caulking. I’m not sure what he meant by this exactly, but water should never reach the interior caulking. If it does you will already see water damage. The third possible cause is the flashing paper around the original frame was disturbed during the retrofit installation of our window. If this was the case we would have seen water dripping down the backside of the flashing paper during our water test, as well as a leak a lot sooner than 6 years later! The truth is, Steve does not know where the leaking water is coming from. He is merely throwing out estimated guesses and the fact that those guesses are all over the place is evidence only that he is clueless as to the cause of the leak.Werner & Sons has been in business for 40 years with no complaints filed with any institution, we take pride in our workmanship and customer service. We treat our customers with respect and provide superior service. We use superior sealants on the market. This application is a retrofit window application where because it was an aluminum framed window, we removed the moving vent, fixed vent unscrewed the mullion (middle bar). The perimeter frame stays and the new window has a flange that is mounted up against the existing frame. We seal the outside and seal and trim the inside. Mrs. [redacted]’s application there is foam trim around the perimeter outside existing that has one coat stucco applied and the windows are one story with a eve overhang. In our 35/ 15 years in the window industry we have serviced hundreds of windows. We have never ever deliberately misled or denied service to a customer with a leak issues, in fact in 99% of the time it’s not the windows that were installed. It’s the roof, stucco, foundation. It is unfortunate that Mrs. [redacted] has had issues with water damage to her baseboard and carpet. I empathize with her frustration in trying to fix this difficult problem. If there was evidence that the leak was coming from the windows and not the one coat stucco or foundation, we would gladly take care of reinstalling the windows. (Out of warranty has a nominal fee of $250 per window.) Unfortunately all the evidence suggests that the windows are not leaking and reinstalling the retrofit window would be a waste of time and money. Despite having presented this information to Mrs. [redacted], she is holding on to inaccurate information either provided to her by unqualified contractors, or made up in her own mind. Mrs. [redacted]’s estimate from New Visions to cut out the stucco around the windows and re-flash around the original frame does not go far enough. Unless the stucco is removed all the way to the ground and new flashing is applied all the way from the top of the windows to the ground then, in all likelihood, her floor will continue to see water intrusion. The second visit to the house I did a water test, I laid the hose on the ground on the rock bed, within 7 minutes there was water coming up from the foundation where the leak from the bot[redacted] plate of the framing was. I immediately showed Mrs. [redacted]. It was our determination that the leak was coming from the foundation. Knowing the countless issues with one coat stucco cracking and the problems that arise from that application and foundation issues that we found, also the fact that it rained over 8” between the month of January and February this year. After three service calls, we at Werner and Sons although sympathetic to Mrs. [redacted], do not believe that the windows installed in 2011 are the source of the water leaking in Mrs. [redacted]’s floor inside of the house. Sincerely,[redacted]Owner[redacted]Production ManagerWerner and Sons
Re: ID 12082020 ResponseOn February 9th of 2017, We inspected what was claimed to be a leaking window that was a retrofit window application installed at [redacted], in January of 2011. At the time of the inspection I saw wet carpet and water damage around the baseboards on the floor. There was no visible water damage to the sheetrock above the baseboards and no evidence of water around the windows. I asked the customer, [redacted] if there had been any water on or around the window sill. She claimed there had not been. If water leaks from windows it almost always shows evidence of the leak on or around the windows, it did not appear to be the actual window itself that was the source of the leak. Coupled with information she gave me that the grade of the backyard sloped toward the house, I told Mrs. [redacted] at that time that the window itself was probably not the source of the leak. A couple weeks later, Mrs. [redacted] called again claiming that we needed to come back out because she now had a contractor who told her the windows were the source of the leak. This time I went to the jobsite with [redacted] (Owner of Werner and Sons). At this time the sheetrock and insulation had been removed from the inside wall. The back side of the flashing paper could be easily inspected. Unfortunately, someone who did not know what they were doing, ripped out some of this flashing paper in a blind attempt to figure out where the leak was coming from. In doing so that wall became compromised. Any leak in the wall that may have existed would certainly be much worse now. Despite the new problem with the compromised flashing I carefully examined the backside of the wall under the windows. Now that there was no sheetrock it was quite clear to see that no water had been running down the inside of the flashing under the windows. The only evidence of water damage was on the floor and on the baseboards. The backside of the flashing looked pristine and a subsequent water test showed that no water was penetrating through the flashing anywhere around the windows. As neither the retrofit window, nor the original frame showed any evidence of leaking it appeared the most likely source of the leak was from the ground after water test where performed.Mrs. [redacted] has probably heard from various contractors that her windows are the source of the leak and as such she believes reinstalling or repairing the windows will fix her leak problem. Unfortunately it is my opinion that replacing or repairing the windows will not stop her leak!In a letter from [redacted] of New Visions to [redacted] he offered to repair the leaking windows for $4,550. In his letter he states that the problem comes from one of three areas. He stated one possibility is the caulking of the retrofit window on the exterior has failed. If that is true there should be evidence of the leak on the window sill, not just on the floor. There was no evidence of any water ever having come inside the window onto the interior jamb or sill. According to [redacted] another possibility is the interior caulking. I’m not sure what he meant by this exactly, but water should never reach the interior caulking. If it does you will already see water damage. The third possible cause is the flashing paper around the original frame was disturbed during the retrofit installation of our window. If this was the case we would have seen water dripping down the backside of the flashing paper during our water test, as well as a leak a lot sooner than 6 years later! The truth is, [redacted] does not know where the leaking water is coming from. He is merely throwing out estimated guesses and the fact that those guesses are all over the place is evidence only that he is clueless as to the cause of the leak.Werner & Sons has been in business for 40 years with no complaints filed with any institution, we take pride in our workmanship and customer service. We treat our customers with respect and provide superior service. We use superior sealants on the market. This application is a retrofit window application where because it was an aluminum framed window, we removed the moving vent, fixed vent unscrewed the mullion (middle bar). The perimeter frame stays and the new window has a flange that is mounted up against the existing frame. We seal the outside and seal and trim the inside. Mrs. [redacted] application there is foam trim around the perimeter outside existing that has one coat stucco applied and the windows are one story with a eve overhang. In our 35/ 15 years in the window industry we have serviced hundreds of windows. We have never ever deliberately misled or denied service to a customer with a leak issues, in fact in 99% of the time it’s not the windows that were installed. It’s the roof, stucco, foundation. It is unfortunate that Mrs. [redacted] has had issues with water damage to her baseboard and carpet. I empathize with her frustration in trying to fix this difficult problem. If there was evidence that the leak was coming from the windows and not the one coat stucco or foundation, we would gladly take care of reinstalling the windows. (Out of warranty has a nominal fee of $250 per window.) Unfortunately all the evidence suggests that the windows are not leaking and reinstalling the retrofit window would be a waste of time and money. Despite having presented this information to Mrs. [redacted], she is holding on to inaccurate information either provided to her by unqualified contractors, or made up in her own mind. Mrs. [redacted] estimate from New Visions to cut out the stucco around the windows and re-flash around the original frame does not go far enough. Unless the stucco is removed all the way to the ground and new flashing is applied all the way from the top of the windows to the ground then, in all likelihood, her floor will continue to see water intrusion. The second visit to the house I did a water test, I laid the hose on the ground on the rock bed, within 7 minutes there was water coming up from the foundation where the leak from the bottom plate of the framing was. I immediately showed Mrs. [redacted]. It was our determination that the leak was coming from the foundation. Knowing the countless issues with one coat stucco cracking and the problems that arise from that application and foundation issues that we found, also the fact that it rained over 8” between the month of January and February this year. After three service calls, we at Werner and Sons although sympathetic to Mrs. [redacted], do not believe that the windows installed in 2011 are the source of the water leaking in Mrs. [redacted] floor inside of the house. Sincerely,[redacted]Owner[redacted]Production ManagerWerner and Sons
Please see the attached documentation that I received from Werner and Sons, when they did the window installation. This is the only documentation that I received. Please let me know if you need anything else.Thank you,[redacted]
Re: ID [redacted] ResponseOn February 9th of 2017, We inspected what was claimed to be a leaking window that was a retrofit window application installed at [redacted] Ct, Elk Grove, in January of 2011. At the time of the inspection I saw wet carpet and water damage around the baseboards on the floor. There was no visible water damage to the sheetrock above the baseboards and no evidence of water around the windows. I asked the customer, [redacted] if there had been any water on or around the window sill. She claimed there had not been. If water leaks from windows it almost always shows evidence of the leak on or around the windows, it did not appear to be the actual window itself that was the source of the leak. Coupled with information she gave me that the grade of the backyard sloped toward the house, I told Mrs. [redacted] at that time that the window itself was probably not the source of the leak. A couple weeks later, Mrs. [redacted] called again claiming that we needed to come back out because she now had a contractor who told her the windows were the source of the leak. This time I went to the jobsite with [redacted] (Owner of Werner and Sons). At this time the sheetrock and insulation had been removed from the inside wall. The back side of the flashing paper could be easily inspected. Unfortunately, someone who did not know what they were doing, ripped out some of this flashing paper in a blind attempt to figure out where the leak was coming from. In doing so that wall became compromised. Any leak in the wall that may have existed would certainly be much worse now. Despite the new problem with the compromised flashing I carefully examined the backside of the wall under the windows. Now that there was no sheetrock it was quite clear to see that no water had been running down the inside of the flashing under the windows. The only evidence of water damage was on the floor and on the baseboards. The backside of the flashing looked pristine and a subsequent water test showed that no water was penetrating through the flashing anywhere around the windows. As neither the retrofit window, nor the original frame showed any evidence of leaking it appeared the most likely source of the leak was from the ground after water test where performed.Mrs. [redacted] has probably heard from various contractors that her windows are the source of the leak and as such she believes reinstalling or repairing the windows will fix her leak problem. Unfortunately it is my opinion that replacing or repairing the windows will not stop her leak!In a letter from [redacted] of New Visions to [redacted] he offered to repair the leaking windows for $4,550. In his letter he states that the problem comes from one of three areas. He stated one possibility is the caulking of the retrofit window on the exterior has failed. If that is true there should be evidence of the leak on the window sill, not just on the floor. There was no evidence of any water ever having come inside the window onto the interior jamb or sill. According to Steve another possibility is the interior caulking. I’m not sure what he meant by this exactly, but water should never reach the interior caulking. If it does you will already see water damage. The third possible cause is the flashing paper around the original frame was disturbed during the retrofit installation of our window. If this was the case we would have seen water dripping down the backside of the flashing paper during our water test, as well as a leak a lot sooner than 6 years later! The truth is, Steve does not know where the leaking water is coming from. He is merely throwing out estimated guesses and the fact that those guesses are all over the place is evidence only that he is clueless as to the cause of the leak.Werner & Sons has been in business for 40 years with no complaints filed with any institution, we take pride in our workmanship and customer service. We treat our customers with respect and provide superior service. We use superior sealants on the market. This application is a retrofit window application where because it was an aluminum framed window, we removed the moving vent, fixed vent unscrewed the mullion (middle bar). The perimeter frame stays and the new window has a flange that is mounted up against the existing frame. We seal the outside and seal and trim the inside. Mrs. [redacted]’s application there is foam trim around the perimeter outside existing that has one coat stucco applied and the windows are one story with a eve overhang. In our 35/ 15 years in the window industry we have serviced hundreds of windows. We have never ever deliberately misled or denied service to a customer with a leak issues, in fact in 99% of the time it’s not the windows that were installed. It’s the roof, stucco, foundation. It is unfortunate that Mrs. [redacted] has had issues with water damage to her baseboard and carpet. I empathize with her frustration in trying to fix this difficult problem. If there was evidence that the leak was coming from the windows and not the one coat stucco or foundation, we would gladly take care of reinstalling the windows. (Out of warranty has a nominal fee of $250 per window.) Unfortunately all the evidence suggests that the windows are not leaking and reinstalling the retrofit window would be a waste of time and money. Despite having presented this information to Mrs. [redacted], she is holding on to inaccurate information either provided to her by unqualified contractors, or made up in her own mind. Mrs. [redacted]’s estimate from New Visions to cut out the stucco around the windows and re-flash around the original frame does not go far enough. Unless the stucco is removed all the way to the ground and new flashing is applied all the way from the top of the windows to the ground then, in all likelihood, her floor will continue to see water intrusion. The second visit to the house I did a water test, I laid the hose on the ground on the rock bed, within 7 minutes there was water coming up from the foundation where the leak from the bot[redacted] plate of the framing was. I immediately showed Mrs. [redacted]. It was our determination that the leak was coming from the foundation. Knowing the countless issues with one coat stucco cracking and the problems that arise from that application and foundation issues that we found, also the fact that it rained over 8” between the month of January and February this year. After three service calls, we at Werner and Sons although sympathetic to Mrs. [redacted], do not believe that the windows installed in 2011 are the source of the water leaking in Mrs. [redacted]’s floor inside of the house. Sincerely,[redacted]Owner[redacted]Production ManagerWerner and Sons
Re: ID 12082020 ResponseOn February 9th of 2017, We inspected what was claimed to be a leaking window that was a retrofit window application installed at [redacted], in January of 2011. At the time of the inspection I saw wet carpet and water damage around the baseboards on the floor. There was no visible water damage to the sheetrock above the baseboards and no evidence of water around the windows. I asked the customer, [redacted] if there had been any water on or around the window sill. She claimed there had not been. If water leaks from windows it almost always shows evidence of the leak on or around the windows, it did not appear to be the actual window itself that was the source of the leak. Coupled with information she gave me that the grade of the backyard sloped toward the house, I told Mrs. [redacted] at that time that the window itself was probably not the source of the leak. A couple weeks later, Mrs. [redacted] called again claiming that we needed to come back out because she now had a contractor who told her the windows were the source of the leak. This time I went to the jobsite with [redacted] (Owner of Werner and Sons). At this time the sheetrock and insulation had been removed from the inside wall. The back side of the flashing paper could be easily inspected. Unfortunately, someone who did not know what they were doing, ripped out some of this flashing paper in a blind attempt to figure out where the leak was coming from. In doing so that wall became compromised. Any leak in the wall that may have existed would certainly be much worse now. Despite the new problem with the compromised flashing I carefully examined the backside of the wall under the windows. Now that there was no sheetrock it was quite clear to see that no water had been running down the inside of the flashing under the windows. The only evidence of water damage was on the floor and on the baseboards. The backside of the flashing looked pristine and a subsequent water test showed that no water was penetrating through the flashing anywhere around the windows. As neither the retrofit window, nor the original frame showed any evidence of leaking it appeared the most likely source of the leak was from the ground after water test where performed.Mrs. [redacted] has probably heard from various contractors that her windows are the source of the leak and as such she believes reinstalling or repairing the windows will fix her leak problem. Unfortunately it is my opinion that replacing or repairing the windows will not stop her leak!In a letter from [redacted] of New Visions to [redacted] he offered to repair the leaking windows for $4,550. In his letter he states that the problem comes from one of three areas. He stated one possibility is the caulking of the retrofit window on the exterior has failed. If that is true there should be evidence of the leak on the window sill, not just on the floor. There was no evidence of any water ever having come inside the window onto the interior jamb or sill. According to [redacted] another possibility is the interior caulking. I’m not sure what he meant by this exactly, but water should never reach the interior caulking. If it does you will already see water damage. The third possible cause is the flashing paper around the original frame was disturbed during the retrofit installation of our window. If this was the case we would have seen water dripping down the backside of the flashing paper during our water test, as well as a leak a lot sooner than 6 years later! The truth is, [redacted] does not know where the leaking water is coming from. He is merely throwing out estimated guesses and the fact that those guesses are all over the place is evidence only that he is clueless as to the cause of the leak.Werner & Sons has been in business for 40 years with no complaints filed with any institution, we take pride in our workmanship and customer service. We treat our customers with respect and provide superior service. We use superior sealants on the market. This application is a retrofit window application where because it was an aluminum framed window, we removed the moving vent, fixed vent unscrewed the mullion (middle bar). The perimeter frame stays and the new window has a flange that is mounted up against the existing frame. We seal the outside and seal and trim the inside. Mrs. [redacted] application there is foam trim around the perimeter outside existing that has one coat stucco applied and the windows are one story with a eve overhang. In our 35/ 15 years in the window industry we have serviced hundreds of windows. We have never ever deliberately misled or denied service to a customer with a leak issues, in fact in 99% of the time it’s not the windows that were installed. It’s the roof, stucco, foundation. It is unfortunate that Mrs. [redacted] has had issues with water damage to her baseboard and carpet. I empathize with her frustration in trying to fix this difficult problem. If there was evidence that the leak was coming from the windows and not the one coat stucco or foundation, we would gladly take care of reinstalling the windows. (Out of warranty has a nominal fee of $250 per window.) Unfortunately all the evidence suggests that the windows are not leaking and reinstalling the retrofit window would be a waste of time and money. Despite having presented this information to Mrs. [redacted], she is holding on to inaccurate information either provided to her by unqualified contractors, or made up in her own mind. Mrs. [redacted] estimate from New Visions to cut out the stucco around the windows and re-flash around the original frame does not go far enough. Unless the stucco is removed all the way to the ground and new flashing is applied all the way from the top of the windows to the ground then, in all likelihood, her floor will continue to see water intrusion. The second visit to the house I did a water test, I laid the hose on the ground on the rock bed, within 7 minutes there was water coming up from the foundation where the leak from the bottom plate of the framing was. I immediately showed Mrs. [redacted]. It was our determination that the leak was coming from the foundation. Knowing the countless issues with one coat stucco cracking and the problems that arise from that application and foundation issues that we found, also the fact that it rained over 8” between the month of January and February this year. After three service calls, we at Werner and Sons although sympathetic to Mrs. [redacted], do not believe that the windows installed in 2011 are the source of the water leaking in Mrs. [redacted] floor inside of the house. Sincerely,[redacted]Owner[redacted]Production ManagerWerner and Sons
Please see the attached documentation that I received from Werner and Sons, when they did the window installation. This is the only documentation that I received. Please let me know if you need anything else.Thank you,[redacted]