Wilbar International Inc.

We have given you all the information you requested

Attached is the warranty for your poolUnder the Limitations of the warranty it states; "The present warranty does not cover the following: g) Corrosion around and beneath the skimmer which includes the square skimmer opening and the round return opening are specifically not warranteedRefer to
the skimmer maintenance instructions as well as the pool instructions."The attached image which you provided shows corrosion around and beneath the round return openingYour warranty claim was denied due to a leak at the return areaWhich is not covered under the terms of the warranty

Revdex.com:
I have reviewed the response made by the business in reference to complaint ID# ***, and have determined that my complaint has NOT been resolved: We don't plan on paying anymore money on another one of your products.
In order for the Revdex.com to appropriately process your response, you MUST answer the question above
Sincerely,
*** ***

From the images and information sent from you we are unable to ascertain what caused the damage to your poolThe only thing we can and have provided is a copy of the instruction manualSee attached

We do not show any shipments going to CaliforniaDealers are the ones that order the pools from us, we do not sell directly to consumersIf you need status on an order you placed you will need to contact your dealer

Revdex.com:
I have reviewed the response made by the business in reference to
complaint ID# ***, and have determined that my complaint has NOT been resolved because:
Wilbar did not answer the questions. The instruction manual on how to erect the pool does not answer the question if the pool was erected per their manual. It also does not answer the question on the rip on the skin wall. Wilbar, being the manufacture of the pool should be able to view all the sent documentation and determine if pool met their installation requirements. The question if the pool was installation met the requirements is a yes or no answer. *** *** did state in the phone conversation that the pool did NOT meet Wilbars installation requirements. I do not understand why providing that statement in writing is an issue. If any more documentation is needed for their evaluation, I am willing provide it. The only way my complaint will be satisfied is if the questions are answered.
In order for the Revdex.com to appropriately process your response, you MUST answer the question above
Sincerely,
*** ***

The warranty for your pool does not cover winter damageYour pool was caused by ice in the skimmer and is therefore, considered Winter DamageThe warranty states, "Loses or damages caused by freezing and thawing, by ice or ground shifting and by pool leakage are not covered by this limited warrantyIn order to reduce these damages or losses, it is important to follow the maintenance instructions relating to the preparation of your pool for the winter seasonAlthough you may follow these instructions, Wilbar International cannot warrant that damages will not occur." In the Limitations of the warranty it states, "The present warranty does not cover the following: d) damages caused by ice, ice displacement, fire, animals, vegetation, vandalism or acts of God." This is the last statement we will make regarding your pool

Revdex.com:
I have reviewed the response made by the business in reference to complaint ID *** and find that this resolution is satisfactory to me and the matter has been resolved.However I would like to say, I believe their warranty to be misleading I do not recall Sales person or anyone else indicating they would prorate the entire pool with the exception on the one area of the pool most likely to have damageand they do not intend to honor any of their warranty's as I indicated to them, I will attempt to not do business with them in the futureand recommend that family and friends avoid doing business with them either.
Sincerely,
*** ***

We are sorry you are having issues with you pool at this timeAttached is a copy of your warrantyIn the limitations of the warranty is states: "The present warranty does not cover the following: d) Damages caused by ice, ice displacement, fire, animals, vegetation, vandalism or acts of God." It
also states "Losses or damages caused by freezing and thawing, by ice or ground shifting and by pool leakage rare not covered by this limited warrantyIn order to reduce these damages or losses, it is important to follow the maintenance instructions relating to the preparation of you pool for the winter seasonAlthough you may follow these instructions, Wilbar International cannot warrant that damages will not occur."

I purchased a Wilbar solstice pool on June 23' 2015 has a 20 year warranty. On October 2016 I noticed 2 rust spots on the side of my pool took photos and contacted, pinch a penny pool,were I was assured of a great quality long lasting pool. they told me to go on line and fill out the warranty request page. I did just so. The night mare begins. A few weeks later I receive a denial letter. I went to pinch a penny to find out what happened with the great quality pool and wonderful customer service. Pinch a penny said the would contact there rep.
In Jan 2017 I received an email from pinch a penny saying if I paid 150.00 for the shipping they would send me a new pool wall.
I agreed.
Upon tearing apart the old pool I found all the top rails rusted, all the pool top plates rusted , all the pool uprights pitted with rust.
After removing the uprights I could see all the bottom plates were completely falling apart and the rails to hold up the pool were destroyed in a manner they could not hold up the new wall. all the bolts and nuts were unusable. After taking pictures of all the damage I tried contacting Wilbar manufacturing, They told me I could not speak with them I had to go back to pinch a penny.
So I did...
Pinch a penny got in touch with there rep and a few days later I got an email that read. we can order you new ones but your warranty does not cover it.
So now I have a new pool wall and nothing to put it together with. Now they know there product sucks or they would not have replaced the wall. I know now there product sucks but I am out all that money and labor.
We also know they do not care to fix or justify there actions for selling there product, So I figure the only way to get someones attention is to drive them out of business. The more people, All of us can educate about the truth about there pools and there products will get others not to buy. Lets think like the guy sitting behind the desk, Let them complain they will go away, what does not go away is horrible reputation. This is the only way were we will ever get justice. I will do my best to do for you what you have done for me. Thank you Wilbar.

Revdex.com:
I have reviewed the response made by the business in reference to complaint ID# [redacted], and have determined that my complaint has NOT been resolved because:

My swimming pool is destroyed because the wall rusted and split!  When the wall gave away it shredded the liner, gushing hundreds of gallons of water everywhere. The sand under the liner washed away along with the landscaping around the pool. Estimated cost, less the landscaping,  if I except their offer, is $3450.00. This is unacceptable in this situation. 
Sincerely,
[redacted]

Revdex.com:
I have reviewed the response made by the business in reference to complaint ID# [redacted], and have determined that my complaint has NOT been resolved because:

[Your Answer Here]
 I feel this is not right . I have invested my hard working money into this pool and I feel the material of this pool must be made poorly to sell in a cold state . How can they sell a pool in a cold state that can not stand the weather and tell the customer that purchased it not even a year later that we don't cover winter damange . This pool needs to have a recall then . I know lots of people with pools and old pools and mine is the only one that broke . The quality of this pool is not good . The metal on this wall busted . What kind of quality is that ?
 
 
 
In order for the Revdex.com to appropriately process your response, you MUST answer the question above.
Sincerely,
[redacted]

Revdex.com:
I have reviewed the response made by the business in reference to complaint ID# [redacted], and have determined that my complaint has NOT been resolved because:

[Your Answer Here]WILBAR contradicts themselves over and over with deception. When I ordered said defective pool part [redacted] I was quoted a list price of $1,372.36 by WILBAR and I was responsible for "a ten percent service and handling charge on the list price of all items ordered" which would have been a charge of $137.24. WILBAR even states this to be true in their response to my complaint. NOW they state that there is a flat $180.00 handling charge fee. I was over charged $42.76 and WILBAR needs to refund the difference.
 
 
 
 
In order for the Revdex.com to appropriately process your response, you MUST answer the question above.
Sincerely,
[redacted]

Revdex.com:
I have reviewed the response made by the business in reference to complaint ID# [redacted], and have determined that my complaint has NOT been resolved because:

The damage was not caused by ice damage, the damage was sustained because the steel wall was materially weak from the manufacturer, and not up to the standard it was sold as. Also, the manufacturer deemed their judgement without a thorough investigation, relying only on a single photo. I was never asked for more information, they simply denied the request instantly. 
 
 
In order for the Revdex.com to appropriately process your response, you MUST answer the question above.
Sincerely,
[redacted]

Revdex.com:I have reviewed the response made by the business in reference to complaint ID# [redacted], and have determined that my complaint has NOT been resolved because:
 
[redacted], Wilbars response still does not address any of the questions.  Let me take a different approach.  Take a step back from my pool installation and lets look into Wilbar’s Installation Manual.    Under Step 4 it states: “Do not install blocks or rails on loose sifted soil or sand”-          What is Wilbar’s Design Basis for this statement?  What could happen if the rails or block are installed on loose sifted soil or sand?   Step 4 also states “There must be no space between the ground and bottom of the rails.  -          What is Wilbar’s Design Basis for this statement?  What could happen if there is space between the ground and bottom of the rails?   Again in step 4 the manual states “ All the patio blocks must be flush with the ground-          What is Wilbar’s Design Basis for this statement?  What could happen if the patio blocks are not flush with the ground? Again in step 4, the manual shows a figure a figure where the rail it place 1” from the inside of the block and 6” on the outside of the block.-           What is Wilbar’s Design Basis for this statement?  What could happen is this requirement of 1” from the inside of the block and 6” on the outside of the block is not met? So again, looking at Wilbar installation manual (not my pool at this time), these question are simple and straight forward, and since Wilbar owns the “design”  and their manual requires these steps, these question should be easy to answer.  After all, it is just the installation manual questions! So once Wilbar’s answer the four question above, I ask a hypothetical question.   What would be outcome of the pool if the blocks or rails were installed on loose sifted soil or sand, and there was space between the ground and bottom of the rails,  What if the patio blocks were not flush with the ground, and the rail placement is not 1” from the inside of the block and 6” on the outside of the block, but close to 6” on the inside and 1” from the outside of the block at several areas around the pool.  What would be the result of not following Wilbars instruction manual?  So now that Wilbar has answered the installation manual questions, let return back to my pool.    If you have not already done so, I would connect with [redacted] and look at the 20+ photos I have sent him.  I would even view the video that I sent to him via a FTP site.   Theses photos and video shows how the installer left the pool.        Based on the design basis answers that Wilbar completed above and then applying those answers while looking at my pool installation. What is so hard about providing statement about the pool installation?     What is the issue or reluctance with Wilbar providing a statement that the installer did not follow the installation manual.   It is clear that the pool was not installed for several requirements of step 4.  Also with this step not performed correctly, what would be the result.  Could the rail shift, could the block shift, could the pool become unlevel, Could the skin wall weaken, or could the pool even collapse?  Wilbar design and manufactures pools, and these are not difficult questions to answer.    So the statement that Wilbar cannot provide any opinion or statement on the collapse of my pool is a copout excuse.  I would think Wilbar would want to do the moral and ethical thing, and truthfully answer the question instead of ignoring them.   
 
 
 
 
In order for the Revdex.com to appropriately process your response, you MUST answer the question above.Sincerely,[redacted]  %

To restate, the images and information that we received from you, we are unable to ascertain what caused the damage to your pool. The only thing we can and have provided is a copy of the instruction manual. The is our final comment on this matter.

We received the Bill of sale for this pool on 6/**/15 and did not receive the images of the problem until June **, 2015.  We processed the warranty letter on June **, 2015 and emailed a copy of the warranty letter to the consumer. Attached is the warranty letter that was sent. The pool you have...

was manufactured by [redacted], not Wilbar International. [redacted] has gone out of business and all the warranties for their pools are legally void. Wilbar tries to cover the terms of [redacted]'s warranties to the best of our abilities. The attached warranty letter is the best we can do to assist you with the problem you are having with your pool. Wilbar is not responsible for the liabilities of [redacted]. All of the warranties have a prorated warranty, which takes into account the general wear and tear that occurs over the life of a product and covers claims proportionately based on the time between the date of purchase and the date a claim is filed. At this time your pool is in it's 9th season and the prorate on your pool is 60%, giving you a 50% discount on covered parts. In the letter we are covering the wall, bottom rim and bottom plate at the prorate of 60%. This means you have a 40% discount off of the retail price of the parts for your pool.

Attached you will find the warranty paperwork for you pool. The warranty for your pool is our Silver Series 30 Year Limited Warranty. All of the warranties are pro-rated and the discounts change every season. The seasons go from January to December. Your pool is in it's 3rd season, the pro-rate is...

40% and the discount is at 60% off of the items you need to fix your pool. Due to the damage to your pool, we are offering you a new pool frame and wall for $760.00 plus shipping of $250.00. Attached is the offer we have sent you, under the "Limitations of the Warranty" section it states, "The present warranty does not cover the following: a) Damages caused to the material or costs of labor related to the installation or dismantling of the pool, the liner or the accessories, nor reimbursement for any other labor costs or materials which may be deemed necessary or desirable." "c) Personal or material damage of any nature." In the Terms and conditions of the warranty it states, "3. Owner will be subject to all costs for transportation of the defective or replacement pool components and/or accessories.

We have reviewed your warranty claim regarding your pool again. The pool damage was caused by ice build up in the skimmer area. The warranty applies only to damage due to workmanship and corrosion, it does not apply for damages due to winter damage. I have attached the photo you sent to us regarding your pool. It clearly shows winter damage, not damage due to workmanship. This is not covered under the terms of the warranty.

Revdex.com:
I have reviewed the response made by the...

business in reference to complaint ID# [redacted], and have determined that my complaint has NOT been resolved because:

I have been in touch with my dealer almost every day since they ordered the pool.  The dealer has gotten extremely frustrated as well because they are not getting timely resolution.  The pool was finally shipped to California two weeks ago, but the installers could not install because the wrong installation kit was sent.  I ordered a fully dressed above ground pool, for above ground installation, but they sent an install kit for in-ground installation.  Installers had to leave frustrated, and I have been so frustrated I'm ready to send the $14,000 pool back to New York.  My dealer rep contacted Wilbar on June * to tell them the wrong install kit was sent, and they said they could have the correct kit sent within 5 business days.  As of today (June **) it has still not shipped, despite the dealer having daily contact with Wilbar.  We keep being told "maybe tomorrow".  My dealer rep has been in contact with multiple persons at Wilbar, and I have also been in contact personally with two persons there both on phone and e-mail.  All I want is to have my pool installed with the proper installation kit.
 
 
 
 
In order for the Revdex.com to appropriately process your response, you MUST answer the question above.
Sincerely,
[redacted]