Winchester Ammunition

I attended the NRA National Convention in Atlanta, GA earlier this year. My brother and I drove from Cincinnati, Ohio to attend this event. While there, we took part in several chances at giveaways from various vendors in attendance. One of those vendors was Winchester. My brother and I signed up and then made sure to be at their booth at the set time. The gentleman at the booth asked everyone to have a number between 1 and 10 in their heads, and that he was going to go around asking what everyone came up with. My brother was first; didn't win. I was 2nd. I said, "7!" The gentleman stops and replies, "That was actually the number." I was very excited. My brother wins all of the time - won from the Wall of Guns while he was there, but I don't have a habit of winning anything. Next, the guy asks if I want a $100 certificate for ammo or gear. I replied, "I'll take the ammo." The certificate had an email contact at the bottom with an expiration date of December 31, 2025. That's important to keep in mind as I started my claim with them in September. I had it on my safe at home and had forgotten for a few months due to a hard year of job loss and ending up in the ER a couple of times. None the less, the certificate was still good for a few more months. I proceed to contact the name on the certificate. Nothing. Nothing for a couple of weeks. Next, I try an inquiry with the main customer service line on their website. Within a week, I received a reply. A gentleman named "Nathan" (my inquiry forwarded to him by a "Taylor," keep that name on standby) had contacted me. He said that [name on the certificate] no longer works for the company, but then thanked me for my persistence, and then proceeds... it would seem... to help me with claiming my winnings. He asks me just to answer a couple of questions and provide an ID to get the ball rolling. I send a copy of my drivers license, declared that I was legal to buy ammo, supplied a photocopy of the winning certificate (which, oddly, he never asked for), and shared my interest in ammo type. I replied with all of the required info. I didn't hear back for over 2 weeks. I started a new email as a follow-up asking Nathan if he received (he did) everything that he needed, and then asked if he needed anything else. Silence. So, about another week or two later, I remembered the contact that had forwarded my inquiry to Nathan in the first place: Taylor. So, I reach out to Taylor, more less, begging him to please help me. Further, I told him that I have used Winchester ammo for a long time, that I would just like to see Winchester honor their giveaway, and that I would like to avoid contacting the NRA over a vendor that would not uphold their end on a giveaway that they themselves advertised. Taylor responded. He said that Nathan had a lot on his plate (don't they always), but that he would be happy to assist me further. I send him the same info that I had originally sent Nathan, BUT, this time I included photos of me and my brother at the event in Atlanta - name tags and all (even a photo of me with Hickok45 at the Silencer Central booth). I wanted to make sure there was no denying that I was legit and not some fraud. Taylor says that he would wait for, of course, Nathan and one other guy to get back in office on that next business day and that he would forward everything over to them. I gave it a month. I contact Taylor again. He replies with something along the lines of, "I sent it over for approval. Let me see what's going on and I'll get back with you!" That gave me a bit of peace, but you can imagine that one of my concerns is, "Is this company really going to try and stretch this out past December 31st to get that certificate to expire?" Of course, that certificate was presented in September, so that truthfully shouldn't be a concern, and every conversation is documented. Anyways, I replied about a week later (I didn't think I would have to wait another week the way he sounded) with a simple, "Thanks for the update." Why just that? To further prove my patience, but also, to wake them up over there! As in, "Hey! This isn't over! I'm still waiting!" Well, nothing... again. I waited until here in December now to contact Taylor again. Silence from him now. Now, I have just recently sent an email tagging both Nathan and Taylor. I expressed my disappointment, how dishonorable and disappointing this whole experience was, and I further told them that they probably shouldn't do "giveaways" if they can't afford to give $100 worth of ammo to the "little guy." Going forward, I have decided to take my experience to social media. Will it make an impact. Perhaps not, but I am going to try. I am also attempting to find the other winner (of gear) to see if their certificate was honored, so I will be on YouTube to share my experience, the email threads, photos, and how the NRA (with whom I have submitted a complaint) will treat this going forward. It wouldn't be wise for the NRA to shrug off little guys of the gun owner community. In todays interconnected world, word gets around a lot easier and people band together when they've had enough. I have stocked more than a fair share of Winchester ammo and I will have no quarrel with going to another manufacturer, and further, sharing the community's poor experiences with them on a broad scale.

Complaint: [redacted] In regards to what the Glock technician had to say: he mentioned no such information about incorrectly installed parts The only part that was not factory was an extended slide release installed by a certified Glock armorer and master gunsmith How that would cause a round to blow up in my hand is beyond my knowledge of physics and mechanical engineering Having a M.Sin the latter, I presume it to be the former In response to the claim that the round in question was a reloaded or remanufactured round: I again state that I do not own any reloading equipment nor have I ever done so The only experience I have with reloading is sporadic YouTube curiosity and shop talk at the local gun storeThe round was loaded into a standard Glock magazine straight from a freshly opened box of Winchester round value pack purchased from [redacted] Sports the day before.In response to the round itself: Before sending it off to Winchester I showed the still jammed and unremoved round to an acquaintance I have with my local sheriff's office They happen to run the ballistics lab and inspect casings and ammo for most of my state on a daily basisThey state that the way/area in which to round failed is due to weak alloy composition since it failed at the case head the, normally, most structurally sound portion of such a case This makes their claim that the round was reloaded not only false, but moot as well They further advised that an overcharged round would stretch and bulge in a perfect ring and due to the way Glocks are manufactured, would blow out towards the magazine well I personally, from an objective standpoint, trust an unbiased source grounded in science and years of experience with no dog in the fight, to say versus a "technician" that happens to be paid by the company that manufactures the round in question The same unbiased source whose testimony is considered expert in a court of law and admissible as evidenceThe Facebook posts were made to separate posts posted to a public Winchester page Not repeatedly, as Winchesters response claims I feel it imperative to warn other prospective buyers of my experiences with Winchester and the horrendous quality control issues they have It would seem that if Winchester truly felt confident in their product, such comments on social media would not be of concern In response to the $check I ask this: Had the round caused my firearm to explode in such a way that I lost fingers or suffered other serious injury would they feel they feel that they had done the right thing? I wonder if, God forbid, I suffered mortal injuries as a result of their ammo; would they mail the $check to my wife and kids Sincerely, [redacted]

We have attempted contact with the customer who submitted this complaintTwo forms of contact have been attemptedWe will continue to reach out to the customer until we have success

Initial Business Response /* (1000, 7, 2015/07/21) */
I am ***, the senior associateI have talked to the customer and we are picking up the ammunitionHe wants replacement ammunitionWe will provide replacement ammunition after the ammunition has been picked up and we are notified that we
have it and we have checked his driver's license

Complaint: [redacted]
In regards to what the Glock technician had to say: he mentioned no such information...

about incorrectly installed parts.  The only part that was not factory was an extended slide release installed by a certified Glock armorer and master gunsmith.  How that would cause a round to blow up in my hand is beyond my knowledge of physics and mechanical engineering.  Having a M.S. in the latter, I presume it to be the former.  In response to the claim that the round in question was a reloaded or remanufactured round: I again state that I do not own any reloading equipment nor have I ever done so.  The only experience I have with reloading is sporadic YouTube curiosity and shop talk at the local gun store. The round was loaded into a standard Glock magazine straight from a freshly opened box of .40 Winchester 100 round value pack purchased from [redacted] Sports the day before.In response to the round itself: Before sending it off to Winchester I showed the still jammed and unremoved round to an acquaintance I have with my local sheriff's office.  They happen to run the ballistics lab and inspect casings and ammo for most of my state on a daily basis. They state that the way/area in which to round failed is due to weak alloy composition since it failed at the case head the, normally, most structurally sound portion of such a case.  This makes their claim that the round was reloaded not only false, but moot as well.  They further advised that an overcharged round would stretch and bulge in a perfect ring and due to the way Glocks are manufactured, would blow out towards the magazine well.  I personally, from an objective standpoint, trust an unbiased source grounded in science and years of experience with no dog in the fight, to say versus a "technician" that happens to be paid by the company that manufactures the round in question.  The same unbiased source whose testimony is considered expert in a court of law and admissible as evidence. The Facebook posts were made to separate posts posted to a public Winchester page.  Not repeatedly, as Winchesters response claims.  I feel it imperative to warn other prospective buyers of my experiences with Winchester and the horrendous quality control issues they have.  It would seem that if Winchester truly felt confident in their product, such comments on social media would not be of concern.  
In response to the $20 check I ask this: Had the round caused my firearm to explode in such a way that I lost fingers or suffered other serious injury would they feel they feel that they had done the right thing?  I wonder if, God forbid, I suffered mortal injuries as a result of their ammo; would they mail the $20 check to my wife and kids.
Sincerely,
[redacted]

Initial Business Response /* (1000, 9, 2015/06/04) */
I have spoken with the consumer and I am going to pick up this consumers ammo and everything seems ok. We had a new website put in and are behind on it. I let him know the number he left, a "[redacted]" answered, so I did not leave a message.

see attached.