Complaint: ***
I am rejecting this response because: The remedies are insufficient to correct the errors in our renovation. All we are asking for is the kitchen as was designed and paid for. If you have to cut into our new cabinets to correct your mistakes, compensate us for the damage. Correct your errors instead of claiming “it’s not our policy”. From our perspective, our contact with you was and is a terrible ordeal, ever extended because of your excuses about errors instead of honest accountability. To address the issues you raised in your response:
The contract was for both *** *** and *** ***. All checks for payment listed both names and were cashed without Issue. Not sure why this is a question now.
We expressed our concerns to the Woodsman *** and *** throughout the project. Our complaints fell on deaf ears and were met with blatant hostility when we inquired about how a task was being done or objected to the quality of work completed. After such an incident with *** where combative unprofessional behavior was displayed in September it was decided that *** *** should handle all direct communication with woodsman *** to get the project completed ASAP.
At the projects end trim work for the transition of the kitchen leading into the dining room was still a work in progress and was still be being planned on the last day of the walk throughAt that point due to substandard work quality of the finish work already completed we decided that it was better to end the job and find a qualified finish carpenter to re do what was haphazardly attempted by Woodsman
We find it deplorable to lie about and question the legitimacy of clients after every design, contract and payment listed both names We thought better of Woodsman to own their mistakes than to render their clients dishonest because they dare to complain of unfair treatment. This Revdex.com complaint and every communication herein represents us both
1. “Plumbing item in the kitchen sink not draining correctly”
Remedy: “cut a small hole through the side of the sink base cabinet , and upon completion of the plumbing can have a new side panel skin installed in a professional manner( work to be done by our company as well, we are the cabinet company that did all the work ).”
We paid for a new sink cabinet that will be damaged by your correction. Fixing your mistake and adding another new panel skin patch is not sufficient. Your previous attempts at finish work are substandard
2. “A window detail on the inside of the window opening”
Remedy “remove that small amount of tile, finish the tile edges on outside wall(under wall cabinets) and rework drywall surface to window ready for you to paintThat should eliminate any issues with window operation” ***“very straightforward work and can be accomplished quickly as well.” ***
The details on the tile return to the window ***man installed were discussed in the design Now because it does not operate correctly, this detail is called “a violation of policy” The window is not centered on the opening so the tile covers the movable sash on the left, preventing sealing or tilting. Removing the tile will not make the window appear centered.
3. "Amount of space left in a walkway into the kitchen which was prohibiting her from being able to get a “ deep refrigerator into the kitchen."
Remedy: “There are many fine quality refrigerators in the market that are 28” deep so that she didn’t have to buy a “ deep unitWe offered to pay half the cost of the upgrade cost for the refrigerator she boughtWe were told this was $and we offered to compensate her with $as a sign of accommodation.”
We bought a 28” deep unit. Woodsman designed / installed the 30” deep refrigerator cabinet as we requested. The new entry between the new knee walls was constructed wrong at 29” width. We do not consider this smaller, more expensive refrigerator an upgrade. This increased cost will continue for the life of the kitchen, and could total thousands in extra expenseLost cold storage, lost space behind the cabinets in a galley kitchenThe aggravation trying to get our dream appliance into our new dream kitchen extended a simple timely purchase by days And this fight to get the matter set right: priceless
The make and model of the refrigerator we wanted was discussed and planned for in the design as you can see in the attached email chain from Spring How do you explain building a large opening for it but not making the opening into the kitchen large enough for it to fit through? I did not pay for industry standards we paid for what *** and*** designed and what *** expressed in numerous emails concerning this purchase before work ever began on this project
We have made every attempt to resolve this dispute directly. After our email complaint 6/16/(see attachment), *** visited and admitted these were all errors he should have caught. Then his email 6/claimed the countertop entry was not wrong and offered a $“gift” for an “upgrade”. *** then let *** and *** know their remedies were insufficient, and requested a refund because our apprehension about their honest accountability was confirmed. Mr***’ email 7/1/simply reiterated ***’s offer, and discouraged us from involving Revdex.com or other consumer agents in this dispute. Apologies for ***’s response “Perhaps”, sent unintentionally I hope the perspective of a 3rd party along with ***umentation of our thorough specification and previous complaints would help cut through the denials of accountability and move this difficult matter forward
I also reported ***man to Revdex.com because I was alarmed by the hostility when I pointed out the poor quality of the finish work on the new window exterior while the job was ongoing. Despite the problems described here, we did not complain immediately after the project ended because we dreaded continued difficulty getting him to correct the mistakes he made
The problems fitting the new refrigerator were the proverbial ‘last straw’ for us. I want help negotiating with a *** whose work is substandard, whose attitude is hostile and who does not have to integrity to alert us to larger problems, own their oversights or fully correct errors they admit to making
We were apprehensive about working with ***man from the outset. We are now extremely anxious to end this struggle by getting back 10% of what we paid for the parts that were not built correctly as designed. After formally complaining to them and then seeking assistance from Revdex.com, we are too frustrated by denials and more promises to let anyone from this company in our home again. Our desired outcome remains as originally stated
Regards,
*** ***
Complaint: [redacted]
I am rejecting this response because:
While Mr. [redacted] himself has not been threatening, his responses have not represented or even addressed what we experienced with his crews. We ended the project and hoped to avoid any further contact despite discovering mistakes and problems because responses to our complaints were hostile.
When we could not get our new refrigerator in the new kitchen in June 2014 it was the 'last straw' in terms of problems with workmanship that did NOT match our design +/or industry standards. Woodsman still has not addressed this issue: the entry was constructed too narrow to allow the refrigerator we specified to fit through. We want this mistake corrected to avoid an additional $900 expense every time we replace this appliance.
As per cabinet cuts, I am complaining because of your need to cut more than once to get it right. The same type of problem occurred with the microwave vent when the 1st cut was obstructed by ceiling joints and had to be recut.
The window has a 3/16" reveal on the left, and a 9/16" reveal on the right. If this were corrected, the tile return would fit and appear to be a professional installation.
What is your estimate of the cost to correct these mistakes fully, in the manner we are requesting?
1. Fix the plumbing outlet for the new lower sink + cost of the "twice cut" cabinet;
2. Window return tiles removed, window properly centered, tile reset;
3. Counter knee wall shortened, counter recut to achieve an opening (as designed) able to fit a standard depth refrigerator.
Regards,
[redacted]
My name is [redacted], [redacted] of Woodsman Kitchens and Floors. In all my previous communications to the customer and in my communications with the Revdex.com in response to their complaint I know that I have been respectful to them and professional. This latest response is full of the same language as used previously in which they claim several statement of hostile attitudes from one or more Woodsman employees and poor workmanship as well.
The customer has chosen to have an opinion about the plumbing repair and the window that simply is a distortion of the facts. All sinks cabinets have cuts that are made to accommodate plumbing and drain lines, garbage disposal wiring, etc. The type of cut we would make to remedy their problem would be no different, and we would re-panel the cabinet when complete.
The window can be made to have a centered design very easily , but we can't fix it if the customer doesn't want us to do so.
I have addressed the refrigerator matter already.
Our position, our offer remains the same.
I am not going to give this client a refund of $4000 as it does not reflect the cost required to correct , as well as the money we offered towards the cost of the refrigerator.
Respectfully,
Company's response below:
I am writing in response to a complaint filed by a [redacted]. Although we know who this person is, please be advised that our signed contract was [redacted] and that is who we received all our communication from and to whom our responses to date have been...
directed.
I was made aware of [redacted]’s concerns in mid June 2014 , which I was surprised as it was approximately 9 months after we had completed the work.
Her primary concerns were a plumbing item in the kitchen sink not draining correctly, a window detail on the inside of the window opening, and the amount of space left in a walkway into the kitchen which was prohibiting her from being able to get a 30 “ deep refrigerator into the kitchen.
Upon receiving her complaint, [redacted] my remodeling [redacted] contacted them in writing, offering to remedy the plumbing problem, the window detail, and offered to pay half the cost of the new upgrade refrigerator they had purchased that was a special shallow depth unit .
We then received a response from [redacted] that stated that alluded to contacting the Revdex.com etc.
I then responded to [redacted] and suggested that since we were willing to get these items addressed in a positive manner, why not take advantage of doing so in lieu of involving the Revdex.com, etc. Her response was “ perhaps”. The next communication I received was this formal complaint to your organization from [redacted].
Our position is the same as it has been..
1. We acknowledge that the plumbing item needs to be corrected. The scope of work is minor in that it can be completed within 90 minutes. We will need to cut a small hole through the side of the sink base cabinet , and upon completion of the plumbing can have a new side panel skin installed in a professional manner( work to be done by our company as well, we are the cabinet company that did all the work ).
2. The window detail is also very straightforward work and can be accomplished quickly as well.
3. In the case of the refrigerator , it appears she already purchased a new one when she realized a true 30 “ deep refrigerator would not fit through the opening . The opening is approx 29 “ wide right now. There are many fine quality refrigerators in the market that are 28” deep so that she didn’t have to buy a 24 “ deep unit. We offered to pay half the cost of the upgrade cost for the refrigerator she bought . We were told this was $700 and we offered to compensate her with $350 as a sign of accommodation.
Our offer still stands at this point. If they are apprehensive about working with [redacted] to get this work completed, I have another [redacted] on staff that is more than capable of handling these items in a professional manner.
Complaint: [redacted]
I am rejecting this response because:
We selected our[redacted] appliance and gave Woodsman the specs months before construction started. It was their job to reconcile the entryway passage with the depth of the fridge cabinet they designed/installed. If we had known that Woodsman only designs kitchens for certain certain brands of appliances we would not have chosen to work with them.
While we appreciate their finally addressing the mistake on the countertop entry width, the previous suggestion made on site by the job [redacted] (when he acknowledged all these errors) was to simply cut off each of the inside corners at a 45 degree angle. Currently, the overhang on the left side varies from 1 7/8” to 2 1/8” and measures 1 5/8” to the cabinet face on the right. If you “cut the two parallel counter top overhangs by 1/2 " each” as is being suggested now, would that mean the right countertop would be cut the entire length and end up with a 1 1/8” overhang?
Our plumbing and window concerns remain unaddressed as the remedies offered are insufficient.
Regards,
[redacted]
In the customer's latest response she asks " what is our estimate of the cost to correct these mistakes in the manner they expect" ?
My response is that we have offered to take care of the plumbing and window concerns at no charge to the customer. We have also offered to reimburse them for 1/2 of the refrigerator upgrade cost ( they told us it was $700 so we offered $350 as an accommodation ).
Additionally, we previously offered to cut the two parallel counter top overhangs by 1/2 " each, which will then give the customer the desired 30 " width clearance into the kitchen. ( if the tops are modified, the remaining overhang will still be approx. 1.25 ", which is more than sufficient)
One detail that needs to be addressed is this whole issue of the clearance space and the availability of refrigerators whose size will work . I have gone to websites for both [redacted] and** and found many different models of top mount refrigerator/ freezers as well as large side by side units that all list their overall depth ( without handles ) to be 28- 28 .5 inches. The existing opening is about 29 1/8 " , so there is plenty of room as it exists. I understand the first refrigerator they bought was too wide to fit, but possibly the customer was given poor information as to their options when they were told their only other option was to go down to a 24" depth unit (??)
it will take us about 4 hours one day, and two-three hours the next day to complete all this work. Based on that, the customer's request to be compensated $4000 is unrealistic.
We are prepared to do the work in a respectful and professional manner.
This is all I can offer in response.
Complaint: ***
I am rejecting this response because: The remedies are insufficient to correct the errors in our renovation. All we are asking for is the kitchen as was designed and paid for. If you have to cut into our new cabinets to correct your mistakes, compensate us for the damage. Correct your errors instead of claiming “it’s not our policy”. From our perspective, our contact with you was and is a terrible ordeal, ever extended because of your excuses about errors instead of honest accountability. To address the issues you raised in your response:
The contract was for both *** *** and *** ***. All checks for payment listed both names and were cashed without Issue. Not sure why this is a question now.
We expressed our concerns to the Woodsman *** and *** throughout the project. Our complaints fell on deaf ears and were met with blatant hostility when we inquired about how a task was being done or objected to the quality of work completed. After such an incident with *** where combative unprofessional behavior was displayed in September it was decided that *** *** should handle all direct communication with woodsman *** to get the project completed ASAP.
At the projects end trim work for the transition of the kitchen leading into the dining room was still a work in progress and was still be being planned on the last day of the walk throughAt that point due to substandard work quality of the finish work already completed we decided that it was better to end the job and find a qualified finish carpenter to re do what was haphazardly attempted by Woodsman
We find it deplorable to lie about and question the legitimacy of clients after every design, contract and payment listed both names We thought better of Woodsman to own their mistakes than to render their clients dishonest because they dare to complain of unfair treatment. This Revdex.com complaint and every communication herein represents us both
1. “Plumbing item in the kitchen sink not draining correctly”
Remedy: “cut a small hole through the side of the sink base cabinet , and upon completion of the plumbing can have a new side panel skin installed in a professional manner( work to be done by our company as well, we are the cabinet company that did all the work ).”
We paid for a new sink cabinet that will be damaged by your correction. Fixing your mistake and adding another new panel skin patch is not sufficient. Your previous attempts at finish work are substandard
2. “A window detail on the inside of the window opening”
Remedy “remove that small amount of tile, finish the tile edges on outside wall(under wall cabinets) and rework drywall surface to window ready for you to paintThat should eliminate any issues with window operation” ***“very straightforward work and can be accomplished quickly as well.” ***
The details on the tile return to the window ***man installed were discussed in the design Now because it does not operate correctly, this detail is called “a violation of policy” The window is not centered on the opening so the tile covers the movable sash on the left, preventing sealing or tilting. Removing the tile will not make the window appear centered.
3. "Amount of space left in a walkway into the kitchen which was prohibiting her from being able to get a “ deep refrigerator into the kitchen."
Remedy: “There are many fine quality refrigerators in the market that are 28” deep so that she didn’t have to buy a “ deep unitWe offered to pay half the cost of the upgrade cost for the refrigerator she boughtWe were told this was $and we offered to compensate her with $as a sign of accommodation.”
We bought a 28” deep unit. Woodsman designed / installed the 30” deep refrigerator cabinet as we requested. The new entry between the new knee walls was constructed wrong at 29” width. We do not consider this smaller, more expensive refrigerator an upgrade. This increased cost will continue for the life of the kitchen, and could total thousands in extra expenseLost cold storage, lost space behind the cabinets in a galley kitchenThe aggravation trying to get our dream appliance into our new dream kitchen extended a simple timely purchase by days And this fight to get the matter set right: priceless
The make and model of the refrigerator we wanted was discussed and planned for in the design as you can see in the attached email chain from Spring How do you explain building a large opening for it but not making the opening into the kitchen large enough for it to fit through? I did not pay for industry standards we paid for what *** and*** designed and what *** expressed in numerous emails concerning this purchase before work ever began on this project
We have made every attempt to resolve this dispute directly. After our email complaint 6/16/(see attachment), *** visited and admitted these were all errors he should have caught. Then his email 6/claimed the countertop entry was not wrong and offered a $“gift” for an “upgrade”. *** then let *** and *** know their remedies were insufficient, and requested a refund because our apprehension about their honest accountability was confirmed. Mr***’ email 7/1/simply reiterated ***’s offer, and discouraged us from involving Revdex.com or other consumer agents in this dispute. Apologies for ***’s response “Perhaps”, sent unintentionally I hope the perspective of a 3rd party along with ***umentation of our thorough specification and previous complaints would help cut through the denials of accountability and move this difficult matter forward
I also reported ***man to Revdex.com because I was alarmed by the hostility when I pointed out the poor quality of the finish work on the new window exterior while the job was ongoing. Despite the problems described here, we did not complain immediately after the project ended because we dreaded continued difficulty getting him to correct the mistakes he made
The problems fitting the new refrigerator were the proverbial ‘last straw’ for us. I want help negotiating with a *** whose work is substandard, whose attitude is hostile and who does not have to integrity to alert us to larger problems, own their oversights or fully correct errors they admit to making
We were apprehensive about working with ***man from the outset. We are now extremely anxious to end this struggle by getting back 10% of what we paid for the parts that were not built correctly as designed. After formally complaining to them and then seeking assistance from Revdex.com, we are too frustrated by denials and more promises to let anyone from this company in our home again. Our desired outcome remains as originally stated
Regards,
*** ***
Complaint: [redacted]
I am rejecting this response because:
While Mr. [redacted] himself has not been threatening, his responses have not represented or even addressed what we experienced with his crews. We ended the project and hoped to avoid any further contact despite discovering mistakes and problems because responses to our complaints were hostile.
When we could not get our new refrigerator in the new kitchen in June 2014 it was the 'last straw' in terms of problems with workmanship that did NOT match our design +/or industry standards. Woodsman still has not addressed this issue: the entry was constructed too narrow to allow the refrigerator we specified to fit through. We want this mistake corrected to avoid an additional $900 expense every time we replace this appliance.
As per cabinet cuts, I am complaining because of your need to cut more than once to get it right. The same type of problem occurred with the microwave vent when the 1st cut was obstructed by ceiling joints and had to be recut.
The window has a 3/16" reveal on the left, and a 9/16" reveal on the right. If this were corrected, the tile return would fit and appear to be a professional installation.
What is your estimate of the cost to correct these mistakes fully, in the manner we are requesting?
1. Fix the plumbing outlet for the new lower sink + cost of the "twice cut" cabinet;
2. Window return tiles removed, window properly centered, tile reset;
3. Counter knee wall shortened, counter recut to achieve an opening (as designed) able to fit a standard depth refrigerator.
Regards,
[redacted]
My name is [redacted], [redacted] of Woodsman Kitchens and Floors. In all my previous communications to the customer and in my communications with the Revdex.com in response to their complaint I know that I have been respectful to them and professional. This latest response is full of the same language as used previously in which they claim several statement of hostile attitudes from one or more Woodsman employees and poor workmanship as well.
The customer has chosen to have an opinion about the plumbing repair and the window that simply is a distortion of the facts. All sinks cabinets have cuts that are made to accommodate plumbing and drain lines, garbage disposal wiring, etc. The type of cut we would make to remedy their problem would be no different, and we would re-panel the cabinet when complete.
The window can be made to have a centered design very easily , but we can't fix it if the customer doesn't want us to do so.
I have addressed the refrigerator matter already.
Our position, our offer remains the same.
I am not going to give this client a refund of $4000 as it does not reflect the cost required to correct , as well as the money we offered towards the cost of the refrigerator.
Respectfully,
[redacted]
Company's response below:
I am writing in response to a complaint filed by a [redacted]. Although we know who this person is, please be advised that our signed contract was [redacted] and that is who we received all our communication from and to whom our responses to date have been...
directed.
I was made aware of [redacted]’s concerns in mid June 2014 , which I was surprised as it was approximately 9 months after we had completed the work.
Her primary concerns were a plumbing item in the kitchen sink not draining correctly, a window detail on the inside of the window opening, and the amount of space left in a walkway into the kitchen which was prohibiting her from being able to get a 30 “ deep refrigerator into the kitchen.
Upon receiving her complaint, [redacted] my remodeling [redacted] contacted them in writing, offering to remedy the plumbing problem, the window detail, and offered to pay half the cost of the new upgrade refrigerator they had purchased that was a special shallow depth unit .
We then received a response from [redacted] that stated that alluded to contacting the Revdex.com etc.
I then responded to [redacted] and suggested that since we were willing to get these items addressed in a positive manner, why not take advantage of doing so in lieu of involving the Revdex.com, etc. Her response was “ perhaps”. The next communication I received was this formal complaint to your organization from [redacted].
Our position is the same as it has been..
1. We acknowledge that the plumbing item needs to be corrected. The scope of work is minor in that it can be completed within 90 minutes. We will need to cut a small hole through the side of the sink base cabinet , and upon completion of the plumbing can have a new side panel skin installed in a professional manner( work to be done by our company as well, we are the cabinet company that did all the work ).
2. The window detail is also very straightforward work and can be accomplished quickly as well.
3. In the case of the refrigerator , it appears she already purchased a new one when she realized a true 30 “ deep refrigerator would not fit through the opening . The opening is approx 29 “ wide right now. There are many fine quality refrigerators in the market that are 28” deep so that she didn’t have to buy a 24 “ deep unit. We offered to pay half the cost of the upgrade cost for the refrigerator she bought . We were told this was $700 and we offered to compensate her with $350 as a sign of accommodation.
Our offer still stands at this point. If they are apprehensive about working with [redacted] to get this work completed, I have another [redacted] on staff that is more than capable of handling these items in a professional manner.
Sincerely,
[redacted]
Woodsman Kitchens and Floors
Complaint: [redacted]
I am rejecting this response because:
We selected our[redacted] appliance and gave Woodsman the specs months before construction started. It was their job to reconcile the entryway passage with the depth of the fridge cabinet they designed/installed. If we had known that Woodsman only designs kitchens for certain certain brands of appliances we would not have chosen to work with them.
While we appreciate their finally addressing the mistake on the countertop entry width, the previous suggestion made on site by the job [redacted] (when he acknowledged all these errors) was to simply cut off each of the inside corners at a 45 degree angle. Currently, the overhang on the left side varies from 1 7/8” to 2 1/8” and measures 1 5/8” to the cabinet face on the right. If you “cut the two parallel counter top overhangs by 1/2 " each” as is being suggested now, would that mean the right countertop would be cut the entire length and end up with a 1 1/8” overhang?
Our plumbing and window concerns remain unaddressed as the remedies offered are insufficient.
Regards,
[redacted]
In the customer's latest response she asks " what is our estimate of the cost to correct these mistakes in the manner they expect" ?
My response is that we have offered to take care of the plumbing and window concerns at no charge to the customer. We have also offered to reimburse them for 1/2 of the refrigerator upgrade cost ( they told us it was $700 so we offered $350 as an accommodation ).
Additionally, we previously offered to cut the two parallel counter top overhangs by 1/2 " each, which will then give the customer the desired 30 " width clearance into the kitchen. ( if the tops are modified, the remaining overhang will still be approx. 1.25 ", which is more than sufficient)
One detail that needs to be addressed is this whole issue of the clearance space and the availability of refrigerators whose size will work . I have gone to websites for both [redacted] and** and found many different models of top mount refrigerator/ freezers as well as large side by side units that all list their overall depth ( without handles ) to be 28- 28 .5 inches. The existing opening is about 29 1/8 " , so there is plenty of room as it exists. I understand the first refrigerator they bought was too wide to fit, but possibly the customer was given poor information as to their options when they were told their only other option was to go down to a 24" depth unit (??)
it will take us about 4 hours one day, and two-three hours the next day to complete all this work. Based on that, the customer's request to be compensated $4000 is unrealistic.
We are prepared to do the work in a respectful and professional manner.
This is all I can offer in response.
Sincerely,
[redacted]