Initial Business Response /* (1000, 5, 2014/03/27) */
In response to Ms. [redacted]'s Revdex.com Complaint Case# [redacted], I reviewed the following with our store manager, [redacted] and our service manager, [redacted]:
October 24 2013 we repaired a tire leak for Ms. [redacted] and also added 1 quart of...
oil per her request. She explained that she had started losing oil between oil changes.
In November and December Ms. [redacted] stopped by several times to have the oil checked in her 2005 Ford Expedition. It was low most of the time and we topped off her low oil using the oil she provided. No repair orders opened at these times as we did not charge for this service.
1-06-2014, We changed the oil and filter on [redacted]'s expedition, 154027 miles. We recommended that the valve cover gaskets be replaced at this time.
1-29-2014, we replaced the cover gaskets on Ms. [redacted] 2005 Ford Expedition, 154688 miles. Customer supplied parts. No warranty offered.
1-30-2014, Oil leaking. Left valve cover gasket leaking, we resealed gasket, topped up oil, about 1/2 quart, 154710 miles
2-01-2014, Oil leaking, found oil leaking from filter. Found threads on oil filter adapter worn, filter came off very hard. We replaced oil filter adapter and oil filter, topped off oil, about 1 quart. We noticed excessive engine lifter noise. We recommended further inspection and gave Ms. [redacted] a copy of tech service bulletin (TSB 05-15-08). This bulletin explains the tests we wanted to perform to further diagnose the noise that we felt may be the cam phaser. The customer said it had always made that noise and was not concerned about it. We test drove for engine cut out/clunk with customer. We felt like there was possible transmission downshift problem and also found right inner fender loose and rattling, we tightened the fender. 154807 miles.
3-04-2014, Engine shaking, loss of power and still losing oil. Check engine light on, Codes, P0012 for cam timing. At this time the oil level was ok. The engine was misfiring and making excessive noise in cam/lifter area, we recommended further inspection and diagnostic to confirm problems. Customer declined further Diagnosis and left before we could get accurate mileage.
I believe that we did everything we could do that was in our control and kept Ms. [redacted] informed as to the status of her 2005 Ford Expedition. I don't think that there is anything that Youngstedts did or didn't do to prevent the current status of Ms. [redacted] 2005 Ford Expedition. Leaking oil does not ruin an engine unless it's run completely out of oil and we never experienced this situation, Ms. [redacted] knew of the leaking problem and the engine noise problem.
Youngstedts would be willing to help Ms. [redacted] with replacing her engine at a discounted rate but in no way can we take responsibility for the current status of Ms. [redacted]'s 2005 Ford Expedition.
Initial Consumer Rebuttal /* (3000, 7, 2014/04/05) */
(The consumer indicated he/she DID NOT accept the response from the business.)
My comments to Youngstedts response to the Revdex.com Complaint Case# [redacted].
1). I also had to return three times for the October 2013 tire repair. I was told that I needed the aluminum rims rebeaded & tire rebalancing so my tire would stop losing air. After returning two more times for continued air loss they finally found that it was just a leaky valve stem.
2). I'm not sure what Youngstedts definition of "several" is, but they added oil twice before I scheduled the oil change. Each time they instructed me to drive 500 miles & come back, which I did. It wouldn't make sense to do this "several" times.
3). I never provided the oil.
4). Youngstedts is not accurate regarding the amount of oil lost from the oil filter incident. There is no way that the mess in my driveway was only 1 quart of oil, it was 3 - 4 ft in diameter. Youngstedts management acknowledged this, apologized profusely & offered to clean my driveway.
5). This is also the first time they mentioned the "engine noise", after I was allowed to drive around with oil leaking out, twice.
6). On 2-4-2014 Youngstedts did give me a bulletin regarding engine noise, but suggested I talk to a Ford shop. In no way did they offer further diagnostics. [redacted] later said that this bulletin had nothing to do with what went wrong with the engine.
7). Youngstedts state that I said "it always made that noise and I was not concerned about it". What I told them was back when I was in for the tire issue one of Youngstedts mechanics told me this noise was fuel injectors getting gummed up over time, sometimes running a cleaner through would help, nothing to worry about.
8). That final test drive was Youngstedts trying to convince me that my vehicle was running fine because I repeatedly expressed my concerns of engine damage after loosing so much oil.
9). We never discussed transmission.
10). [redacted] said that Youngstedts did not put all of the freon back into my vehicle when they did the gasket job. The air conditioning had never given me problems, now I would be back in early summer for air conditioning repair....
I want compensation for:
1) Damage to engine arising from Youngsedts sending it out leaking large amounts of oil;
2). Youngsteds failure to replace freon in air conditioner after the valve cover repair;
3). Youngstedts' improperly performed valve cover gasket repair;
4). Youngstedts sending it out without test driving after repairs;
5) resulting inconvenience and loss of use of the vehicle.
[redacted] quoted a price of $6,800 to replace engine, $4,700 engine, $2,100 labor.
My engine at about 150,000 miles had about another 75,000 miles (perhaps more) of useful life. Taking 1/3rd of remaining useful life of engine, $4,700 divided by 3, is $1,566.
I also deserve to be paid the cost of labor. The old engine, if not ruined by oil loss, might have lasted for years - by which time I would have also worn out the rest of the vehicle & never incurred the cost of labor to replace an engine because I would have junked or traded it. Add in the $2,100 labor charge.
The whole sequence of events - failed gasket repair, stripped & leaking oil filter adapter - justifies refund of the charges. Add in another $404.25.
I deserve something for time & inconvenience, I've been without a vehicle for over a month. Another $250.00 is more then fair.
The total compromise proposal would be for Youngstedts to pay me $4,320.25. ($1,566 + $2,100 + $404.25 + $250 = $4,320.25).
I have spoke to an attorney about this and am prepared to commence a small claims action. However, I appreciate the willingness of Youngstedts to try to resolve this matter & will work with them toward an agreed solution.
Initial Business Response /* (1000, 5, 2014/03/27) */
In response to Ms. [redacted]'s Revdex.com Complaint Case# [redacted], I reviewed the following with our store manager, [redacted] and our service manager, [redacted]:
October 24 2013 we repaired a tire leak for Ms. [redacted] and also added 1 quart of...
oil per her request. She explained that she had started losing oil between oil changes.
In November and December Ms. [redacted] stopped by several times to have the oil checked in her 2005 Ford Expedition. It was low most of the time and we topped off her low oil using the oil she provided. No repair orders opened at these times as we did not charge for this service.
1-06-2014, We changed the oil and filter on [redacted]'s expedition, 154027 miles. We recommended that the valve cover gaskets be replaced at this time.
1-29-2014, we replaced the cover gaskets on Ms. [redacted] 2005 Ford Expedition, 154688 miles. Customer supplied parts. No warranty offered.
1-30-2014, Oil leaking. Left valve cover gasket leaking, we resealed gasket, topped up oil, about 1/2 quart, 154710 miles
2-01-2014, Oil leaking, found oil leaking from filter. Found threads on oil filter adapter worn, filter came off very hard. We replaced oil filter adapter and oil filter, topped off oil, about 1 quart. We noticed excessive engine lifter noise. We recommended further inspection and gave Ms. [redacted] a copy of tech service bulletin (TSB 05-15-08). This bulletin explains the tests we wanted to perform to further diagnose the noise that we felt may be the cam phaser. The customer said it had always made that noise and was not concerned about it. We test drove for engine cut out/clunk with customer. We felt like there was possible transmission downshift problem and also found right inner fender loose and rattling, we tightened the fender. 154807 miles.
3-04-2014, Engine shaking, loss of power and still losing oil. Check engine light on, Codes, P0012 for cam timing. At this time the oil level was ok. The engine was misfiring and making excessive noise in cam/lifter area, we recommended further inspection and diagnostic to confirm problems. Customer declined further Diagnosis and left before we could get accurate mileage.
I believe that we did everything we could do that was in our control and kept Ms. [redacted] informed as to the status of her 2005 Ford Expedition. I don't think that there is anything that Youngstedts did or didn't do to prevent the current status of Ms. [redacted] 2005 Ford Expedition. Leaking oil does not ruin an engine unless it's run completely out of oil and we never experienced this situation, Ms. [redacted] knew of the leaking problem and the engine noise problem.
Youngstedts would be willing to help Ms. [redacted] with replacing her engine at a discounted rate but in no way can we take responsibility for the current status of Ms. [redacted]'s 2005 Ford Expedition.
Initial Consumer Rebuttal /* (3000, 7, 2014/04/05) */
(The consumer indicated he/she DID NOT accept the response from the business.)
My comments to Youngstedts response to the Revdex.com Complaint Case# [redacted].
1). I also had to return three times for the October 2013 tire repair. I was told that I needed the aluminum rims rebeaded & tire rebalancing so my tire would stop losing air. After returning two more times for continued air loss they finally found that it was just a leaky valve stem.
2). I'm not sure what Youngstedts definition of "several" is, but they added oil twice before I scheduled the oil change. Each time they instructed me to drive 500 miles & come back, which I did. It wouldn't make sense to do this "several" times.
3). I never provided the oil.
4). Youngstedts is not accurate regarding the amount of oil lost from the oil filter incident. There is no way that the mess in my driveway was only 1 quart of oil, it was 3 - 4 ft in diameter. Youngstedts management acknowledged this, apologized profusely & offered to clean my driveway.
5). This is also the first time they mentioned the "engine noise", after I was allowed to drive around with oil leaking out, twice.
6). On 2-4-2014 Youngstedts did give me a bulletin regarding engine noise, but suggested I talk to a Ford shop. In no way did they offer further diagnostics. [redacted] later said that this bulletin had nothing to do with what went wrong with the engine.
7). Youngstedts state that I said "it always made that noise and I was not concerned about it". What I told them was back when I was in for the tire issue one of Youngstedts mechanics told me this noise was fuel injectors getting gummed up over time, sometimes running a cleaner through would help, nothing to worry about.
8). That final test drive was Youngstedts trying to convince me that my vehicle was running fine because I repeatedly expressed my concerns of engine damage after loosing so much oil.
9). We never discussed transmission.
10). [redacted] said that Youngstedts did not put all of the freon back into my vehicle when they did the gasket job. The air conditioning had never given me problems, now I would be back in early summer for air conditioning repair....
I want compensation for:
1) Damage to engine arising from Youngsedts sending it out leaking large amounts of oil;
2). Youngsteds failure to replace freon in air conditioner after the valve cover repair;
3). Youngstedts' improperly performed valve cover gasket repair;
4). Youngstedts sending it out without test driving after repairs;
5) resulting inconvenience and loss of use of the vehicle.
[redacted] quoted a price of $6,800 to replace engine, $4,700 engine, $2,100 labor.
My engine at about 150,000 miles had about another 75,000 miles (perhaps more) of useful life. Taking 1/3rd of remaining useful life of engine, $4,700 divided by 3, is $1,566.
I also deserve to be paid the cost of labor. The old engine, if not ruined by oil loss, might have lasted for years - by which time I would have also worn out the rest of the vehicle & never incurred the cost of labor to replace an engine because I would have junked or traded it. Add in the $2,100 labor charge.
The whole sequence of events - failed gasket repair, stripped & leaking oil filter adapter - justifies refund of the charges. Add in another $404.25.
I deserve something for time & inconvenience, I've been without a vehicle for over a month. Another $250.00 is more then fair.
The total compromise proposal would be for Youngstedts to pay me $4,320.25. ($1,566 + $2,100 + $404.25 + $250 = $4,320.25).
I have spoke to an attorney about this and am prepared to commence a small claims action. However, I appreciate the willingness of Youngstedts to try to resolve this matter & will work with them toward an agreed solution.