Arrowhead Honda

To whom it may concern:

 

We have attempted several proposed methods to amend this situation with Ms. [redacted] - to no avail.  Those suggestions were all reasonable and just, given the actions and the condition of her vehicle.  These proposals were as follows:
Provide Ms. [redacted] our top of the line, bumper to bumper extended warranty for the life of her vehicle with a zero deductible.  This would alleviate any future unforeseen problems that this concern may have caused.

Give equitable and fair trade value to the vehicle in question, and sell her a brand new Honda Accord at a discounted price. 

Have other Honda certified mechanics fully examine her vehicle and give their own opinions as to the condition and driveability of her current car, alleviating any doubts that her car is, indeed, mechanically sound.
While willing to work with Ms. [redacted], she continually refutes any assistance we have offered, although what we keep attempting is a seemingly fair conclusion.  It seems that the only resolution that is to her satisfaction is the one where we pay off her vehicle, plus give her a cash incentive for her “trouble”, thus allowing her a free and clear car to drive.  Our response to this is if the car is in such a reported “dangerous” and “broken” state, why would she want to keep it only if it was paid off?  If it is a concern about the mechanical breakdown, our question is that we have offered more than reasonable equivalents to her apprehension.  If her fear is paying for a vehicle that is mechanically sound, that isn’t the matter at hand, and is an illogical resolution.

 

We are now at a standstill in our negotiations, as we feel we have countered with various alternatives while she comes to the table with the same counter offer, one that is unacceptable to us. 

While always willing to work and find amicable resolutions to our customers’ issues, we cannot be forced into a decision that is illogical. 

We would love to hear a reasonable counter offer to our three very reasonable options.  The details, of course, can be worked out and any questions answered before a decision is made, but we are amenable to discussions.

 

Thank you, and I hope that we can find an ideal solution to this unfortunate incident. 

 

Customer Relations Manager

Arrowhead Honda

To whom it may concern: regarding [redacted] ID# [redacted]

In reading Ms. [redacted]’s complaint, I investigated this vehicle identification number internally to see if this was a prior service or sales customer of ours at Arrowhead Honda.  As I searched, I pulled all records from...

the date of inception on 04/17/2004.  Since that date, most (if not all) services have been performed here on this vehicle.  We have all repair orders on file and can produce them upon request.  

When we take in a vehicle on trade, we do a full inspection (see itemized sheet attached), wherein our most meticulous mechanic was noted to have scrutinized.  Although this was a 10 year old vehicle, the mileage at time of sale was 78,000, a very low amount considering the age.  When this vehicle was put into our inventory, it was in perfect mechanical working order having passed all intense inspections.  We make sure all of our vehicles on our lot are above average condition, or will wholesale them to the many vendors we have searching our lots for trades.  This trade, however, we felt was an excellent addition, as we had serviced it for the life of the vehicle.  These are exemplary trades because of that history we can refer to as a point of reference.  

While we cannot guarantee perfection with any automobile we sell, we do work alongside our service department if issues do arise within a reasonable amount of time after the sale, especially if the car is significantly out of warranty – which can also mean it is unavailable for an extended warranty protection coverage policy.   

We are usually very understanding and considerate when it comes to our guests and their concerns and would have most definitely would have greatly discounted the parts and labor costs had she chose to have the repair done here at our facility.  We would have definitely offered her a rental car (which we would have absorbed the cost, which is $40 a day), plus flat rates for her labor and the parts would have been sold at our lowest available cost.  Our service director and service advisor were obviously not privy to the happenings with the details of the sales of the vehicle, as they are two different departments but most definitely should have been more in contact with the manager who was in charge.  

That being said, we are very sorry that such a major mechanical problem happened just a short while after purchase.  Like stated above, we cannot guarantee the future of our vehicles once they leave our lot, but do want to accommodate our guests as best we can.  While we would have been able to surpass the savings that Ms. [redacted] received at [redacted], what we can do now is help her with any further expenses she may incur.   

Our General Manager, [redacted], would like to offer $1000 in service credits here at Arrowhead Honda to promote the life of her vehicle, plus instill the confidence back into our store that she has inevitably lost during this process. 

Being the Customer Relations Manager, I can say that this is the first I am hearing about any unhappiness with this particular customer, and I personally get involved with 99% of the concerns happening here both in service and on our sales floor.  It is unfortunate that this did not find its way to my desk before she took it to another vendor for repairs, but with that being said, we do want to help her as a good will gesture towards her future maintenance and care.   I hope that Ms. [redacted] feels that this is a palpable showing of our reliance in both our service department as well as the products we sell, and of the vehicles we endorse as dependable and mechanically sound when we sell them to our customers. 

Please let us know if we can extend this offer to Ms. [redacted], as we do want her to feel contented and safe, not only in her vehicle but in being our continued patron here where we can help her considerably. 

Thank you for your assistance in this matter, and if there are any other questions, please do not hesitate to contact me. 

Customer Relations Manager

Arrowhead Honda

I have reviewed the response made by the business in reference to complaint ID [redacted], and have determined that this proposed action would not resolve my complaint.  For your reference, details of the offer I reviewed appear below.

Regards,

 I want to clarify that I don't want this car back. That is not an option.  This engine will have problems. The warranty doesn't give me comfort. They miss-understood. I wanted the loan cancelled which is with Honda Finance, my $8000 back and they keep the car and sell it to someone else.  Since this is not one of their options, I was willing to work on a new car deal but they are not giving me full credit for my down payment.

I have been working diligently for two weeks to gather all pertinent information and to understand the situation between the [redacted] and Arrowhead Honda.  As a representative of Arrowhead Honda, I have been working meticulously gathering as much data as I possibly can to ascertain the gravity...

of the situation from both sides.  The information I have collected from the service files, the interviews I have conducted, and the materials I have received now give me a detailed perspective in which to proceed.  I do not like to move forward without feeling as if I have all the specifics when forming a professional opinion, so I have done whatever I could in my capacity in that respect.  After feeling as if I have as much information that can possibly be assembled, I sit here now ready to compose a confident response, one I feel that is fully rounded, unbiased, and with distinction.  I have also researched all relevant state laws and scoured the DMV and MVD, plus other reliable sources in order to feel assured that I was speaking from an intelligent and well educated standpoint.  With all of that being said, it is apologetically abysmal that this situation has escalated to the point that it has.  It is completely understandable for the customer to have such a reaction to unexpected news that their vehicle was involved in an accident, and given the circumstances they found themselves in (broken down by the side of the road with their young son) when given the news, we can sympathize with them wholeheartedly.  When another dealership stated their assessment so blatantly – especially with emotions already running on high, we understand the stress and unease.Simply stating, “this car was in an accident” can mean many different things.  The sensitivity to this statement given the conditions in which they heard it immediately seemed to set off a panic response, one that may not have happened had the setting been different.  Knowing now that their purchase with us was one that Mrs. [redacted] expressed to me to be “the most expensive vehicle she had ever bought” was also a factor in this experience as well.  Also playing into things is the ever present perception of car dealerships as a whole, which tends to be a negative one, so we have had to defend ourselves above and beyond normal limits with even the slightest of complaints.  It is a reputation we will boldly and passionately try and renovate – even if it is just our small, family-owned and independent store.Now that has been said, I would like to move on to the information I have gathered to come to some sort of conclusion.  I know the [redacted] family wants that as much as we do, so let’s get started.  First, I want to state that according to Arizona State Law, it is not a requirement to disclose an accident unless it has frame damage, a salvaged title, or flood damage.  Even though we are not required to divulge that information, we characteristically do, or we mark the vehicle for wholesale – letting the wholesalers know of the damage and it is then their choice to purchase it or not.  Many times, vehicles that are traded in to us have had minimal repairs done (as is the case here), and that is to be expected.  We also anticipate to have customers trade in vehicles and not let us know of the vehicle’s accident history, which is why we run a [redacted] on each vehicle we buy.  In this case, it was a lease return where the customer was not required to disclose the vehicles accident history.  We did run a [redacted] on this particular vehicle (see item #1), and it shows the maintenance history but no mention of any repairs.   Secondly, upon inspection of this vehicle, our certified technician made the discovery of a front end repair and noted that it needed to be probed further by our stringent Used Car Manager (UCM), a typical practice done by our certified mechanics when inspecting a vehicle.  Notifying our UCM, who is the utmost expert of our used car supply, makes our used car stock one of the most immaculate in the city.  I say this because he would never let a car into our stock that simply did not pass his analysis, and our reputation for this fact is unparalleled. This is an important point to make, as it was ultimately his decision whether or not a car is deemed worthy of sale to a guest of Arrowhead Honda or whether it is marked immediately for wholesale.  With that being the case, originally this car was marked by him to be one to wholesale – not because of extensive damage, but because of several reasons : 1) our current stock, in his professional opinion, was adequately furnished enough that we did not need to take into inventory a vehicle with noted repairs as we have limited storage space, and 2) it is costlier to certify a vehicle when it has, indeed, been repaired and we weren’t in need of this particular model to justify the cost of a certification. When the vehicle was done with its initial lease return inspection, it was parked where all trade-ins are parked, leaving our salespeople to view it as potential sales vehicle.  In this case, cars that may have been marked originally for wholesale may be placed back into stock only after a rigorous review and lengthy discussions with the appropriate experts, which was the instance here.  While awaiting viewing by the numerous wholesalers who come in to not only this dealership but many others in the area, the price, color, year, mileage, and equipment were ideal for this specific customer, and it was pulled out of the wholesale track and reevaluated as a potential sale. This is where the service history, [redacted], and further visual inspection was intensified and a decision by our used car manager was formulated that it, indeed, was suitable and rather ideal for our guests needs.  The service history was inspected, the salesperson taking in the vehicle was asked questions about the previous owner, the [redacted] was printed to present to the customers, and the vehicle was again inspected by our mechanic.  He, along with our other managers, felt more than confident in the vehicle, and it was given the stamp of approval for sale.  When a vehicle has been noted that it has been in an accident or has been repaired, it can be certified, but it is a very expensive and involved process, one that would have added an enormous amount of cost to this vehicle putting it out of financial reach of these specific shoppers.  The salesmen showed the [redacted] this SUV as a potential in their price range and they were very interested in the purchase.  They asked if it was certified and were told it was not.  When they asked the reason why, the salesperson approached his manager and asked the specifics and they explained to him that it had its radiator support repaired/replaced.  When discussed with the customers, which they acknowledge, their recollection is that they were told it was a “radiator bracket”, which our salesperson does not recall miswording the information he received from the management.  Hence, the customers were aware that the car was not certified, that it had another inspection, and agreed to purchase the vehicle “as-is” (item #2).  It was not until three months later when we received a call from the customer explaining the nature of their vehicle breakdown that we were aware of any issues with the SUV, which the customer claims is the first they experienced as well.  It is our understanding that a rock damaged the undercarriage of the Pilot while Mrs. [redacted] was traveling north to Flagstaff on the interstate that any mechanical issues arose.  The closest Honda dealership that the [redacted]’s found was [redacted] Honda, who – immediately upon inspection of the vehicle – asked a simple question if the car had been in an accident.  This statement, as stated previously, upset the already distraught driver leaving her feeling as if any motorized problems from then on were caused by being deceived by us as the selling dealership.  When our dealership was contacted by the [redacted] the following business day to discuss the matter at hand, it was apparent that they felt that we were concealing information and treated us as such.  The salesperson got in immediate contact with the General Manager, the Used Car Manager, and the Service Director as soon as this concern was brought to his attention, and our management team leapt into action.  The Service Director and the General Manager contacted [redacted] Honda and spoke directly to the advisor who dealt with the [redacted]s, who explained that he simply stated to them that he could see that the car had, indeed, had repairs, but also assured us that the cause of the mechanical breakdown had nothing to do with those repairs and explained that to the panicked couple.  He quoted us the cost of the repairs, and we thanked him for his honesty and he welcomed us to contact him in the future if we needed assistance.  When speaking to the [redacted] about what we were told, aided with all of the information we possessed, we felt certain that this situation could be mended.  We have an excellent rapport with our clients, many of whom are repeat customers who come back to us because of their faith that we uphold our agreements and work conscientiously to make certain our customers are satisfied and supported.  Communication with the [redacted] became immediately intense, with frustration apparent in their tone and volume.  Being ever the professional, our General Manager has had many exchanges with incensed consumers and is, by and large, a very generous and considerate person – especially when it comes to his patrons.  He listened, he explained, and he rationalized with the [redacted] - to no avail.  As a good will gesture, he offered to give the monetarily deficient family $1,000, more than enough to cover the repairs they incurred.  When they refused, a new proposal was offered, sensing that the customers were now uneasy of the vehicle they had been enamored with for over three months.  Knowing that the vehicle wasn’t any danger or mechanically unreliable but wanting - more than anything - our customers to feel supported and understood, he offered to buy the vehicle back for the full cash price – a proposition that would be ideal to seriously “safety concerned” consumers.  They dismissed that offer as well, stating they did not have the money to buy another vehicle even if they did get the full price of the vehicle returned.  An offer of trading them out of their current vehicle to a one year newer and more equipped trim level Pilot was also presented, only to be rejected on the basis that we would cover all but $2,000 (a substantial loss on our part in order to get to even that amount).  By this time, a full week had gone by and finding middle ground seemed unattainable.  Another idea that had come to our General Manager was that maybe over the weekend the possibility of a trade-in that was of a lesser amount may come in could then be a more economically feasible was considered by the [redacted], but reluctantly.  We promised to contact them on Monday as soon as possible with any news.  Saturday and Sunday came and no trade came in that fit the criteria, but we were inundated with calls from not only the [redacted] relatives but friends as well, calling to curse at and make demands and tentative threats to anyone who would answer the calls, plus our social media was beginning to receive negative public comments stating such things as “careless” and “uncooperative”, all the while, we had been neither.  Several conversations between the General Manager and Mrs. [redacted] father had escalated to where he was using futile threats and stating that we were causing his daughter to “have a hole in her heart”, and that “we were causing intense stress to the point where she wasn’t sleeping or eating” and that “she was losing an unacceptable and noticeable amount of weight”.  We were highly concerned, as no purchase should cause someone to be ill, especially when we genuinely want to assist these patrons.  When we explained to her father that no trade had come in; that we wanted to help but all reasonable efforts were refused, voices escalated and lawsuits were declared.  When physical harm was threatened, the GM hung up the phone and refused all future calls.  As the Customer Relations Manager proficient in heated negotiations, I was off work from Sunday through Tuesday, but as soon as I returned I received many messages and emails regarding this issue.  As the point person to answer for any Revdex.com disputes as well as any American Honda Corporate complaint, plus social media coordinator, it wasn’t only my position to respond but my obligation to investigate and intercede.  I pulled all service records for the Pilot, contacted the original owner of the vehicle to accumulate all repair evidence, and spoke with everyone involved.  I also returned all messages anyone left, speaking directly to Mrs. [redacted].  I wanted to make sure she understood our intentions, both of us agreeing that temperaments may have escalated the situation into territory where negotiations were at a complete standstill.  She expressed to me her main trepidation was the safety of her and her son, as they travel quite often to California.  I assured her that was our position as well, as we would, on no occasion, ever put profit over the well-being of another human being.  I told her I was in the process of garnering all pertinent information so that all of us involved would have a better indication of the processes that had gone into the sale of the vehicle, noting that we were adamant about the safety of our shoppers.  I kept Mrs. [redacted] informed through telephone calls and emails as I amassed as much information over the week as I possibly could, even contacting the previous owner and having him retrieve the restoration detail from the repair facility.  I still received an email from Mrs. Baumer during this process where she indicated her frustration, and I contacted her immediately.  Throughout these conversations, I asked what repairs needed to be done to her vehicle, and she said that her father found a hole in her condenser, and that she was quoted $171 for a complete repair.  I asked if it was a safety issue, and her answer was that no…once the repair was made at [redacted] Honda, there was not another issue except for the perceived condenser hole.  Going over the repair report, our main objective was to make sure that no frame damage had been indicated, and that the repairs were – in fact – from a very low speed parking lot accident, the statement given to us by the original owner.  When we asked him to retrieve the records for us, he was concerned because Mrs. [redacted] had contacted him that week and asked about the repair and he explained to her exactly what he was explaining to us now – that his wife was parking the car, her foot slipped off of the brake and pushed the gas and bumped the two cars in front of her (the speed was revealed to be less than two miles per hour, a speed that would have made it impossible to incur any major frame or mechanical damage). His recount was exact and precise – the repair order indicated no structural damage, no mechanical damage.  Though the list was lengthy, the main replacement was, indeed, the radiator support.  The rest of the repairs were merely body work, having replaced the front bumper, the fender and the door panel on the right side (details attached as item #3). While we were not aware of the extent of the repairs to the vehicle, as the customer is not required upon lease return or trade in to disclose, we thoroughly inspected the vehicle and made absolutely sure it was in the safest and most reliable condition possible.  The previous customer has been more than cooperative, stating that even after he had the repairs done, the vehicle showed no evidence of failure or mechanical breakdown whatsoever, and assures us that the repair facility that was used is reputable and was even suggested by his insurance company, USAA.  We certainly do not want anyone becoming ill over the worry of their safety, which is why we were so adamant about finding a solution to this dispute.  While the care and concern of our customers is first and foremost, we also do not want to be forcefully pressured into obedience because of a difference of standpoint.  Mrs. [redacted] states, “So my best case scenario, so you know, is returning the car to you guys and getting my loan paid off. I don't really want this particular car anymore because I don't think I will ever get passed the feeling of being on the side of the road. You don't have to do the repairs for me or find me another car. You can sell it to the next customer and still make money off of it. That is what I would like. Just wanted you to know.”  It concerns me that her main objective now is to pay off the vehicle, as she has stated numerous times before, because she cannot afford to repair or trade her vehicle in.  I believe it was truly a frightening situation to be broken down on the side of the road, and we do not want that for any of our customers, but cannot guarantee that it won’t happen to the 300+ customers we sell vehicles to every month, nor can we promise that our thousands of service customers will have a repair free lifetime of their vehicle.  As for the safety of her 2011 Honda Pilot, our technicians and mechanics who inspected it, plus the [redacted] Honda service department both state that it is not an unsafe or mechanically unsound vehicle.  Now, with the repair records, it supports both our service department’s recommendations and the expert opinion of an unaffiliated dealership.  Our concern is still the happiness, safety and care of our customer.  We would like to have [redacted] Honda or another Honda dealership mechanic completely inspect the vehicle and specify the necessary repairs.  If they choose, the offer of $1000 towards the repair of this vehicle still stands, as our main concern is the safety and well-being of this family.  That being said, we feel we have been more than fair in our negotiations, given the intricate information we have been able to obtain solidifying our position.  We feel it more than fair that a certified mechanic be given the opportunity to examine this car to assure them and us that it is a safe vehicle.  If their concern is the future mechanical repairs, as we feel it may be an issue with the [redacted]s, then the alternate offer would be an extended warranty on their Pilot with an affordable $100 deductible.  This way, they can continue to drive the car they undoubtedly love without the pressure and stress of looming major repairs over their heads.  This warranty will cover all major components and mechanical failures, a major concern for the [redacted] family.   We trust that an amicable solution can be reached without the [redacted] supporters threatening or otherwise browbeating our dealership and our employees into what they consider compliance. We are a reputable company and we do the right thing because it is how we conduct business - not because we are being intimidated.  Thank you,[redacted]Customer Relations ManagerArrowhead Honda [redacted]###-###-####

Jill I filled out this cancellation form on 3/23/16.  I attached a copy of the form.  On March/23/2016, I stopped by the dealer and filled out the form.
  Please talk to JEFFREY S[redacted], the sales person.  He was supposed to processed the cancellation request after I filled it out.
 
Regards,

[redacted] Honda and [redacted] Honda are taking care of this for him . We are replacing the emblem free of charge.

To whom it may concern:

In response to the complaint from Mr. [redacted] regarding his 2007 Odyssey, we are working with him to assure that all promises made are kept, having pulled all pertinent information and all negotiations from his paperwork.  

The understanding,...

according to all paperwork we have, is that a 100,000 mile service is to be completed, along with a 115 point inspection.  With that inspection, money has been set aside to allow for the repair on what is found, which Mr. [redacted] agreed to.  When attempting to get the Odyssey in for this checkup and repair, Mr. [redacted] was upset because the information on the printed paperwork that gets handed to the Service Advisor, [redacted], did not have all of the individualized inspection specifications on it – so there was confusion when setting the appointment.  

We have tried explaining to Mr. [redacted] our error, and have also tried to get an appointment with him to come in – to no avail.  We understand that he is upset and feels there was a sense of deliberate omission, but it was a simple paperwork “communication” issue that we hope we can mend.  

We are more than ready to assess the Odyssey, using every penny of the monies set aside to get the van in the best condition possible.  I have already spoken with our Service Director, who has even agreed to employee pricing on all parts used, so as to further the funds that are to be utilized.  We hope Mr. [redacted] accepts our apologies and calls to make an appointment with us at his earliest convenience.  

If you have any more questions or concerns, please call me directly at ###-###-####.

Thank you,

Customer Relations Manager

Arrowhead Honda

While Mr. [redacted] insists of a stationary or repeat letter, I solemnly promise that I research and write each and every single complaint that comes in to my office.  While I may have gotten the last name incorrect, the subject matter and condolences, in fact, are correct. 

We have reached out to Mr. [redacted] on many different occasions and from many different departments, to no avail.  We still stand by our offer of doing all work to the maximum of $1500, what he was charged, in work repairs to his van.  It is what he has asked for and what we are prepared to do.  When speaking to Mr. [redacted], his anger seems to stem around the fact that he felt he was promised that we would do everything to his van to make it perfect for the $1500, just to have him buy a vehicle.  We do not make these kinds of open ended proposals, and have it well documented in the paperwork what repairs we were going to do within the limits of amounts charged. 

Mr. [redacted] is free to call my office directly and speak to me about the proposal attached (this time, with corrected nomenclature.  Please accept my personal apology for the mistake, and know that it was in no way intentional. 

Thank you,

I have reviewed the response made by the business in reference to complaint ID [redacted], and have determined that this proposed action would not resolve my complaint.  For your reference, details of the offer I reviewed appear below.

To whom it may concern:  regarding [redacted] ID# [redacted]

I have reviewed the itemized sheets attached on the history of this vehicle, I only see two other Repair Orders besides mine on June 14, 2014. If I am reading these correctly I noticed a few things 1) that this vehicle had been sold and the inspection before delivery on 4-23-2014 had been expedited. 2) I also noticed that in section B the vehicle was only visually inspected and transmission fluids were checked. 3) I noticed that the focus of the inspection was more on the VTM Light and an engine tapping noise. I am not sure what you mean by “having passed all intense inspections.” As the above inspections mentioned:, an Oil Change, Emission Inspection and Resurfaced Front Brakes Rotors were all that was performed. Could it be possible that something was missed?

When I went in to Arrowhead Honda I thought I made myself clear I was looking for a reliable vehicle to work. I did not expect perfection but I did expect to purchase a vehicle that would run longer than 45 days before a major repair. Since the vehicle was 10 years old and extended warranty protection coverage policy was unavailable then maybe that should have been reflected in the sales price as well. Kelly blue book would have priced for a lot less and that is what I have already lost.

As for managers at least two knew of my problem, according to [redacted] his manager spoke to another Manager. The best offer they could give me was $4900.00 and no rental. As to who the Managers were that made the offer I do not know. Then after speaking to [redacted] and [redacted] I was told that because of the age of the vehicle they could not help me. They never mention that I could have contacted the Customer Relations Manager with my problem.  Had I known you existed I would have contacted you to let you know of my situation and saved myself a lot of frustration.   so much stress 

This is why I finally went to [redacted] to get the problem fixed I needed a working vehicle. I had to scramble to borrow money just to get rentals and to pay for parts and labor of the repairs. Because of all of this I now not only owe money I borrowed but I also owe two more loans that I did not need and cannot afford. 

As for the General Manger [redacted] Thorn’s offer of $1000 in service credits is good, but does not help me right now.  I would rather be reimbursed for what I have just spent $3,046.68 to have a working vehicle. Most of the vehicles I have purchased were used vehicles from other dealerships and I have never had any major repairs in such a short period of time.  So far my experience with Arrowhead Honda has been such a stressful time for me that I am wondering if it is worth it.

Thank you for your time and assistance in conveying my response to Arrowhead Honda.
 

Regards,

This letter is in regards to complaint id# [redacted]. Arrowhead Honda has contacted the customer again and the customer has finally agreed to bring the vehicle in for us to look at and fix her problem and no additional costs to her, we have also extended a $500 store credit for future needs and on May 20th she has agreed that this would satisfy this case and make her happy. At this time she has scheduled an appointment for May 27th @ 3:30pm to drop the vehicle off to fix her concern. Sincerely,   Chris T[redacted]Service Drive Manager [redacted]

The Service Director, [redacted], has been in personal contact with this customer, having had her come back in to show her exactly what the technician working on her vehicle had found – that her transmission was, in fact, leaking – and she witnessed the leak herself.  Since this discovery,...

she has decided to have her transmission repaired here, upon the discovery as to exactly what needs to be repaired.  We have agreed to repair the shift shaft seal (a $300+ value) at no charge as a courtesy for the trouble she experienced during this process.  Our exclusive Honda Representative has taken all information into consideration and is deciding on how much participation that Honda Motor Company will give towards this repair and towards the parts replaced, and Mr. [redacted] has left the remaining amount left to be the percentage paid by the customer to be decided by her.  He believes this is the very best way to ensure that her faith in our repairs and our continued relationship will thrive.  We hope that this has cleared all miscommunications and misconceptions about this matter, and we are pleased to have the opportunity to help this guest retain a very safe and reliable mode of transportation for years to come.  If you have any further questions, please feel free to contact me at the below address.  [redacted]Customer Relations ManagerArrowhead Honda[redacted]###-###-####

I went here because I own a Honda and thought they would know the best maintenance for my car. I was wrong. I have gotten my oil changed here 3 times and all 3 times I have had to come back to get it fixed because my car was leaking oil. What a waste of my life! I let it go the first 2 times and thought they would eventually figure it out. I never asked for a refund because I paid for a service and thought they would notate the errors they were making. After the 3rd time of having to come back I thought I was deserving of a refund because of this reoccurring issue. The worst part is that they don't even write down when people have to come back with any issues. They had no idea that I've had to deal with this! Yikes! Why is this? It seems to me that they just didn't care.

I spoke with Chris, the assistant manger for the service department and he said that he would give me a free mini detail the next time I want to come in. The problem with this is, that I never want to come back. Life is too short and I just want to move on from this place. Other family members have bought cars here as well and will not be coming back.

Maybe next time they will notate errors so they will not lose money from customers that bought cars from this very dealership.

If you want to come here for great customer service, you will not get that here.

Service reps will not smile at you or call you by your first name. If you are wanting a positive customer service experience, this place isn't for you.

I now have a very large oil stain in my driveway to remember the awful customer service this establishment has brought me.

Once I wrote a Yelp review online, I finally got a call from Jill C., a business customer consultant. She told me that she would only give me a refund once I deleted the [redacted] review. It is sad to know that they are only willing to do the RIGHT thing unless they get something out of it.

I have reviewed the response made by the business in reference to complaint ID [redacted], and have determined that this proposed action would not resolve my complaint.  For your reference, details of the offer I reviewed appear below.

First of all, I am extremely offended that they cannot even take the time to use the correct name. My name is [redacted], not Mr. [redacted]. This tells me they used a canned response, could not even take the time to fill it out correctly, and they do not care that their sales people make promises that are not kept.
 

Second, I want what was agreed to or the money refunded.

Regards,

The car has been returned and the case is closed.

Parts in question have been replaced once not twice someone can hand select a set that do not have defects and put them on my car. It's a simple solution to an ongoing problem if someone will just take the time and cared enough about the costemer. I would be willing to come in and select a set without defects myself if no one has the time.

In receiving Ms. [redacted]’s complaint, I spoke to my Finance Director to gather information to properly address this issue.  She explained that she has spoken to the [redacted]’s in the days prior to receiving this notice, and felt that we had adequately addressed their concerns.  That being...

said, we want to make sure that this concern gets tended to properly and will follow through with whatever assistance that involves us.  To our knowledge, this customer’s concern is primarily with the banking institutions involved.  The situation was explained to me in this way:

The [redacted]’s came into our dealership with a pre-approval from [redacted] in the amount of $18,000.  The vehicle and additional warranties and insurances brought their total up to $20,228.89, a difference of $2228.89.  When that was explained to the customers, they accepted that another financial institution is a more viable option, since the amount from [redacted] was significantly less.  We are a business that tries to find the most suitable loan at the myriad of lenders who we work with, so this didn’t seem out of the ordinary for us.  

When the customer decided they wanted [redacted] to service their loan, they approached them on their own to initiate a refinance.  [redacted] then called [redacted] for a payoff and a check was sent.  Why the amount was less than the payoff is unknown to Arrowhead Honda as we were only involved in the funding of the original loan with [redacted].  This is clearly a concern now between banks, not with Arrowhead Honda.  

The customer has requested to cancel the GAP and Warranty coverages purchased and we have advised them of the procedure.  It was explained to them that any refunds will be sent directly to [redacted] as a principal payment unless they can show the loan balance has been paid in full.  The other option is for them to wait until the loan has been paid and have the refunds sent directly to them- either way, we are happy to help.  The customer is also aware that in order to initiate the cancellation, they are required to sign a request form, Federal Odometer Statement and provide us with either proof the account is paid or a loan number.  To date, Ms. [redacted] has not been to the dealership to begin the cancellation process.  

However else we can assist these guests we are more than happy to do, and will be available for whatever further questions they may have.

Yesterday, I stopped by Arrowhead Honda with my mom to check out the Pilots since her's was recently totaled in an accident. My mom is a lifetime Honda driver, making this her 5th in 35 years. Money in hand and totally ready to buy, we stopped in to see what the new Pilot looked like in person. I had just recently purchased my own vehicle, so my mom wanted me to do the talking. First of all, my mom inquired about a specific color Pilot and the internet sales guy responded that they didn't have that color in stock, but there was a white one in the model she was looking for. Since this location is the same one that her previous Pilot has been faithfully serviced at for the last 10+ years (she even buys tires there - something I would never do at a dealer), we still went to check it out. Turns out, he read his inventory wrong, there wasn't a white one in that model. In fact, there wasn't any color in the model she wanted... wait.... no he found one in grey to check out. Hmmmm he certainly wasn't the smartest guy on the block, so okay, that's fine, no harm no foul that he doesn't know how to read an inventory report. The color was still not her first choice, but we looked at it and took it for a test drive. The salesman showed us the features, everything okay so far. At the end of the drive, we say that we want to see what the pricing and financing options were to buy it. The salesman was nice enough, albeit really rough around the edges. His presentation of the numbers was not concise or sharp, but it was okay. Then a small, fast-talking, arrogant, loud Asian guy walks up and talks about how we lucked out, how this car was promised to someone else (he shows me their name on his inventory sheet), taps my shoulder like I'm his buddy, laughing to himself, etc. We then continued to talk numbers with the Salesperson who was not clear on where all his figures (accessories, tax, base price, etc) were coming from (again, not the smartest person, really really rough around the edges, and kind of a muffled talker). When we saw the finance options, my mom remembers that she had an offer at her credit union that was better than the numbers this guy was talking, so he showed us that monthly payments at that reflected that rate. Then this manager guy comes over again, and asks about the rate we said that was offered at the credit union. He proceeds to show print outs from that bank that are no where near that rate my mom remembered. His attitude was so aggressive and forceful and essentially made us sound like deliberate liars. I've never seen someone who wants to sell something act so dismissive and loud - he was talking so loud that everyone in the showroom could hear how he thought we were is. He then walked away. In the meantime the salesman passed a credit/sales form to my mom to fill out - I looked at it as asked what that was because we didn't settle on a price at all. The salesman said that he showed the price, so he thought we had a deal. I turned to my mom and said to get out of there and I told the salesman that there's no way we are doing business there because of that manager. Turns out, my mom was mistaken and when we got home and double checked, the rate was the same as the Honda offered rate. However, the experience there was bullish and demeaning. Not to mention that the Asian manager ran out to our car while we were leaving, leaned inside and harassed me about what was wrong and what he could do. This is the exact behavior that exemplifies why we needed to leave at that moment. It felt like he was practically coming at me with a bat with his tone and pushy behavior.

A few hours later we went to [redacted] in [redacted] and was helped by a gracious, honest, straightforward salesperson (Johnny) and purchased the exact vehicle we test drove at Arrowhead.

Don't worry, my mom won't be servicing her new Pilot at Arrowhead either.

Before accepting I needed some clarification on their offer:Are you just cutting us a check for $1000.00 or just paying to get it inspected? We have had all repairs done out of pocket thus far.  Also, as far as the extended warranty goes, will we be able to take it to the local dealership or is it just with Arrowhead Honda?  Very important detail considering we live 80 miles away.Also, here are a few details that need to be cleared up:Arrowhead says...* ”our certified Technician made a discovery of a front end repair” – We were told numerous times that “Arrowhead” knew nothing of the accident, which is the reason it hadn't been disclosed to us prior to purchase.  Below are some reasons why we feel it was hidden: -originally put in wholesale lot -previous owner personally told myself and my father in law that he disclosed it to Arrowhead -service manager told us in order to certify this Pilot it would have cost them 1500-2000 indicating extensive repairs and parts that they saw upon inspection -when asked for the return lease inspection service manager ignored/avoided that request -salesman told us the reason why they didn't certify this Pilot was because it had the radiator bracket changed out, and if you change one little bolt or gasket Honda will not certify- * We found this Pilot listed on Arrowhead’s website for sale Feb 5th and I contacted the internet sales department via email to inquire about pricing.  It wasn't until Feb 7th that we went down to look at it.  The vehicle was not “pulled out” for us based on our needs as no one even knew what we were looking for prior to our visit down there. * During our visit: We asked why it hadn't been certified and [redacted], salesman, said “radiator bracket.” The reason I know this is because after finding out about the accident,  we called [redacted] and when asked why the car hadn't been certified he said “it was 3 months ago I don’t remember the details of every car I sell.”   After that, while speaking to [redacted], GM, on the phone [redacted] walked in and [redacted] asked [redacted] what he said and he stated “radiator bracket”.  Never radiator support. * “understanding that a rock damaged the undercarriage of the Pilot while Mrs. [redacted] was traveling north to Flagstaff” -  We were coming back home from Casa Grande and the vehicle broke down in Mayer due to what was eventually diagnosed as rocker arm oil control solenoid.  While we were down in Casa Grande we noticed that the A/C was blowing warm air on driver’s side while at a stand-still so we had them look at that as well since it was in there.  They concluded a pin hole in condenser and quoted 747.00.  By that time Arrowhead contacted [redacted] Honda and it appears  never followed up.  Ultimately,  my father in law requested a dye test to see exactly where the leak was and that's when they found a leak caused by a bad o-ring (most likely from the repairs done from the accident, considering they had to remove and replace A/C condenser and radiator in order to change out radiator support) and then was quoted 171.00 for that repair. * $1000.00 offer- Neither my father in law or myself were ever offered that by the GM. * "our management team leapt into action" - it took the service manager 6 days to fax over 6 service invoices and 1 inspection sheet. I will say, that [redacted] was the only one who acted as though she cared in the beginning. * "professionalism" - Service manager dodged majority of questions that my wife asked.  Salesman, at time of sale, would curse when telling  stories.  General Manager hung up on my father in law at least 2x and myself once.  I can't speak for my father in law as I wasn't there when they talked but I remained calm the entire time which gives him NO reason to treat me that way.  If he was frustrated by our friends calling he could have communicated that to me and then we could have talked from there.  Many times as well he would laugh at my suggestions instead of simply and maturely letting me know why it wouldn't work. * “monetarily deficient family”  just because we budget for the purchase of a vehicle and put thought into how much we can afford, in NO way makes us “monetarily deficient.” Seeing how we have made ALL repairs to the vehicle, thus far, out of pocket, we are highly offended at this comment.  * “Buy back vehicle for full cash price” IF we had accepted this we would have lost thousands of dollars due to the sales tax that we paid.  I don’t believe that would be a reasonable offer for anyone to accept. * Newer model offer: We had a max price in mind when originally shopping for a car and we maxed that out in the purchase of this Pilot we got, why would we spend more than we allotted for in our budget?  * “promised to contact them on Monday” – indeed [redacted], GM, promised to call myself regarding the trade in.  In the late afternoon, I called and left a message for him to call me and still nothing.  It wasn’t until Tuesday afternoon, when we still hadn't heard anything from [redacted], that apparently our friends starting calling and voicing their concerns.  I can assure you that our friends DID NOT curse because it isn’t in any of our nature to do so.  All they were requesting was that it be dealt with fairly and someone call me back. [redacted] – there was 1 person that commented on FB and the words “careless” and “uncooperative” are never mentioned.  It is still there if you need to re-read it. * “have a hole in her heart” – While [redacted] (father in law) was talking to [redacted], my wife was shaking with anxiety/stress and all [redacted] said was “for all we know my daughter was born with a hole in her heart and this is going to push her over the edge.”  She also had a noticeable amount of hair loss due to the stress, nothing was ever said about her weight.  * “physical harm threatened” – None of us ever threatened physical harm to anyone in your company ever! * “main trepidation was safety” – 100% agree. However the other issue, which was stated many times, was that we unknowingly purchased a car that had been in an accident due to not getting ALL the facts from the dealership.  Like my wife told [redacted] many times, had we had known ALL the information we would not have purchased this vehicle without getting it thoroughly inspected by a third party. * “her father found a hole in the condenser” Please see bullet point 4. * “Mrs. [redacted] had contacted him (previous owner) that week” – [redacted] actually contacted him May 27th after Adrian sent us old services invoices with all the previous owners information on it. * Best Case Scenario Quote: All my wife was trying to convey was that it seemed fair to take back the car, have our loan paid off as it stands to date (instead of selfishly looking to get a full refund) so we can get the car that we thought we were getting.  It is not to get out of the loan, we would still have to go and buy another Pilot elsewhere.  We thought it was a nice gesture so that Arrowhead can sell this pilot to someone else (hopefully with full disclosure).  We can afford the repairs because as mentioned before we have already fixed it all.  If we were to trade in it…AGAIN we would be losing thousands of dollars!!  We truly do apologize if you take our persistence in this matter as threatening but it has been the focus of our life for the last 4 weeks when this all first started and all we were hoping for was a reasonable/fair offer. Regards,[redacted]

[redacted],
We do apologize for any...

inconvenience you feel you have had with this matter. Unfortunately Arrowhead Honda has done all that we could on our part. We have never denied your request to fix this issue. Arrowhead has replaced this part twice for you and as I do agree this is all that we can do. This is out of our hands at this point and needs to be taken up with Corporate Honda. They are the ones that manufacture this part and can help you more internally. Please contact corporate Honda and open up a case with them. If you have any further questions please feel free to reach out to me.
CORPORATE HONDA ###-###-####
HONDA CUSTOMER CARE ###-###-####
Sincerely,
Jill Ch[redacted]

Customer Relations Manager
Arrowhead Honda
Direct: ###-###-####

We are so sorry that this incident occurred – we cannot apologize enough.  That being said, we feel that we only sell vehicles that are mechanically sound and that would be good value for the money our customers choose to spend here.  We employ extraordinary mechanics and technicians who are very intricate and precise when inspecting all vehicles that come in to our inventory.  If any car seems too worn or unsound, we will pass on it and will wholesale it instead.  If this car passed the scrutiny of our certified mechanics, was test driven by technicians and our shop foreman, and we put it in our roster for sales, then we wholeheartedly believed it to be a reliable and viable vehicle to sell to Ms. [redacted] – or to any other customer, for that matter.  

When purchasing a used car, not just here at our dealership but at any store, there is a certain amount of understanding that needs to be communicated.  It is a ten year old vehicle with over 80,000 miles on it and while we inspect all vehicles like I stated above, future problems cannot be predicted.  If Ms. [redacted] could have purchased a newer vehicle that could have been warrantied, we would have done so, but she did have financial restrictions and we were limited on the amount we could get her accepted for by our lenders.  It is a very narrow alleyway – finding a good, quality vehicle for the amount of money allowable.  We truly thought this was a great vehicle for her to purchase, and – at the time – so did she.  

While we have a financial commitment by law once a vehicle leaves our lot, it is only for 30 days.  We are a family owned dealership who values our guests beyond the initial sale and would like to help Ms. [redacted] in the repairs of her vehicle, but since the repairs were already completed and she does not value our $1000 offer of future service credit, we are perplexed on how to best assist her.  Initially, we would have loved to have been able to work with Honda and get her a discount on the parts needed, plus discount her labor costs, to where it would have been nowhere near the exorbitant amount she paid elsewhere. Offering her a monetary stipend seems an imbalanced outcome, and we feel that the $1000 toward any future services is more than generous.  

True, it is unfortunate that this occurred. But we are not a prophesying dealership and could have never predicted any repairs were necessary.  To us, there was a law created to protect used vehicle consumers from unfairly selling cars that are mechanically unsound, and there needed to be a rational amount of time allotted for this particular issue.  If this car had gone another three months of time and then had transmission issues, it still would be something we couldn’t have expected or prevented. 

We can understand the frustration with this dispute, but do think that our offer is still something that solidifies our stance behind our mechanics who inspected this vehicle while helping out for anything in the anticipatable future.  It also serves to reassure Ms. [redacted] that we want her to be in a safe vehicle with no worries of immediate expenses towards any repair that may occur concurrently, as she stated that she has been financially impaired because of her previous repair bill. 

Our offer will still stand, as we can certainly make $1000 in our service drive stretch far more than paying for a disproportionate bill from another facility and find the value in her future driving ability a priority.  

Please reconsider this offer.  If there are any further questions or concerns, feel free to contact me. 

Customer Relations Manager

Arrowhead Honda