Arrowhead Honda

The first Honda we bought here great experience, and loved it.....my wife's work circumstances changed and we felt we didn't need a pricey CRV with all the bells and whistles, as now she was only driving 2 miles roundtrip to work instead of 60, and we don' do long road trips any more. I checked the trade in value, and went to see our salesman Mo, and told him 4 things, I wanted to break even on the trade, no down, and keep the good interest rate we had on CRV, and lower my payments to a specific amount. He said no problem, after talking to finance, and he went over the figures with me, as we had a lunch meet with another couple, told him we would be back on Monday. He said only one of us would need to come back, and he knew it would be my wife, as I told him I may be busy when he pressed for a date to return. Well lets just say, that only 1 thing we agreed on was accomplished. We were taken on the interest rate, they gave us $3455 less for our car, and we specifically told the salesman we could keep another year or so, if a deal on interest and trade in could not be struck. Yes my wife should have read the fine print. Mistake, was she trusted the salesman, and just saw the bottom line the payments were what was agreed upon.....there is much more, this was the tip of the iceberg, but suffice it to say, what they did may have been legal, but not ethical. If I could do less than 1 star I would.

On February 01, 2014 I purchased what I believed to be a brand new Honda Accord EX-L, when in actuality I purchased an assembly line nightmare. From the moment I walked out of the dealership there was nothing but problems that began to transpire. The wrong vehicle was written up; I had specifically requested a white accord with tan interior, what was delivered to me was a grey accord with black interior. The juggling than began to take place, I was told that there was nothing matching my request on the lot. I was not willing to accept the grey accord and asked for my trade-in back and agreed to return when a vehicle matching my request was produced. While the sales department continued to fumble around in an attempt to keep from losing the deal, someone managed to locate an accord from the mystical “back lot” that had not been stocked in and apparently no one knew existed. After a year worth of, “I’m sorry we are unable to duplicate that concern ma’am”, I know exactly why.

Let me recap my hell with this vehicle that is supposed to be rated on the best vehicles on the road today. I signed the papers, but upon delivery I discovered obviously that the vehicle is the wrong color, then the mystery accord appears. I sit down in the car and the bottom seat cushion comes off, open the driver side rear door and the weather stripping is coming off. I am told, “oh just bring it in for service, it is all covered under warranty.” I concede only because it is now 9:30 pm and I have been at the dealership all day and figured trim issues would be no big deal to repair. Sadly I was mistaken. On February 14, 2014 I dropped the vehicle off with [redacted], who wanted me to pay for a rental when this was clearly an internal pre-delivery repair but because it had not been written on the original deal he insisted that I pay for the rental. This man was horribly rude to me and allowed the trim tech to repair my seat cushion with a black zip-tie, which I deemed an extremely unacceptable repair on a brand new car. When I voiced this to Mr. [redacted] asking if it was his brand new car would he deem it acceptable?, I was told that he did not feel that was a fair question because he drove a piece of crap and that yes it was an acceptable repair. Disgusted and unable to convey my disappointment to Mr. [redacted] I turned to my sales person [redacted], who is a treasure to Arrowhead Honda, who stood up for me and demanded that the seat be repaired properly. It was then taken to the body shop where the clip was re-stitched in hopes of being reinforced and able to hold onto the frame. Unfortunately that repair did not work either. Ultimately the bottom cushion was special ordered and replaced to rectify the problem. March 18, 2014 starts the endless beeping of the forward crash warning sensor. There was no consistency as to when or where the sensor would go off, cars around me, no cars around me or 2:15am on a deserted freeway. The vehicle was in the shop multiple times for this concern and each visit I was told they were unable to duplicate the concern. On to the next issue, I was stopped at a light in the evening when a gentlemen was kind enough to let me know that I had no rear running lights, now mind you that the front ones were burning bright as were the brake lights. This concern to me is an extreme safety hazard. I promptly took the vehicle to the dealership the very next day. October 29, 2014 I pulled into the service drive, my service writer, [redacted], again an extreme asset to Arrowhead Honda, greets me and sees that this concern is factual and true. He documented the occurrence and immediately had a tech take it into the shop while I waited. Once in the shop the light magically began working again and again I was told they were unable to duplicate the problem. I refused to accept that answer because I felt as though it was a safety concern and was not willing to risk an accident over the words unable to duplicate. The vehicle was in the shop for several days only to have another issue arise, the back-up grid would not clear from the display screen. Honda of course authorized this random occurrence immediately. When I picked the vehicle up I am told that Honda tech line has suggested that I video the next time my rear lights go out, seriously I didn’t know the first time being that I am in the driver’s seat. So far in my non-mechanic opinion I would venture to say at the very least there might be an electrical problem. I am told that if the exact issue is unduplicated it cannot be repaired. Let’s not try to track down the possible short, let’s put this person back in the vehicle and hope nothing happens. In the mean time the rental I was driving died in my drive way I believe [redacted] the service manager told me it was a battery fuse that burned out. As the nightmare drags on I had the car back in my possession less than 24 hours when the battery dies, not just oh maybe we can charge it dead but dead dead dead, I don’t believe that a battery less than a year old could possibly be bad not even from the Arizona sun, but possibly from I don’t know maybe an electrical issue draining it. I understand that there may be those freak occurrences but I’m going to venture to say this is not one of those cases. The battery was replaced and once again the vehicle was back in my possession. Several weeks passed only to have yet another random computer/electrical issue take place. All of the instrument panels went black, there was no illumination. Knowing that I must have proof I pulled over immediately to photograph the occurrence because I have been told repeatedly Honda will do nothing to help me without it. Now late for work I promptly make a phone call to Mr. [redacted] to notify him and send my photographic proof. Unfortunately there was no way I could get the car to the dealership at that specific moment being that I was not willing to risk losing my job to tend to a vehicle that I have repeatedly insisted had a significant problem that was not being addressed. Mr. [redacted] was good enough to make arrangements to have [redacted] bring me a rental and take my accord back to the dealership. Of course when he arrived the instrument panels were all working properly. Thank goodness I photographed it when it happened or I am sure it would have been dismissed with yet another unable to duplicate. [redacted] with the proof was able to obtain authorization to make a guesstimated repair of removing the dash and cleaning contacts. When I picked the vehicle up I began doing my due-diligence I have become so accustomed to only to discover that my phone would not dial and disconnect calls. [redacted] the lot attendant was kind enough to try to assist me with this problem by un-pairing and re-pairing my blue tooth. This occurrence was explained away by another service advisor I am unfamiliar with that this can happen with the power is interrupted. However, this problem did not occur when the battery died and was replaced. I was to return Saturday afternoon to speak with Mr. [redacted] about the problem and on my way to the dealership one of the control panels went black again. Being so well versed in photographic proof I again snapped a photo and sent it to Mr. [redacted], he asked that I bring it to him ASAP, but in true nightmare-ish fashion I put the vehicle in reverse and the panel began to work properly again. Once I got to the dealership Mr. [redacted] suggested a complete reset but during our conversation we decided it would be best to wait for [redacted] to be involved being that nothing could be done before Honda gave the ok. I did take the opportunity to address the general manager [redacted] and discuss my extreme concerns about driving this vehicle. I told him I felt as though Honda had made it very apparent that this situation was nothing more than a potential financial burden to them that they were not going to rectify it. This vehicle is a potential hazard and they continue to put me back in it with no real resolution. I feel as though Honda is only looking at this from a financial stand point, so my question to them is what if something happens to me while I am driving this miserable vehicle? Do you think it would be more costly to justify to my 15 year old son why your company hadn’t done more to right this wrong? At one point there was an attempt to get me out of the lease; [redacted] had offered a year newer vehicle, 2 cylinders less and $300 more a month out of my pocket. I felt that was preposterous and unbelievable that I would be penalized/punished for something completely beyond my control, I walked out in tears. I have now suffered with this vehicle for a year, made my payments and have been more than patient with this corporation with no resolution. How many vehicles have been replaced at Arrowhead Honda in the last year? How many in the last two years? According to [redacted], ZERO. I am fully aware that Honda has made money on this vehicle already, being that I financed it through the corporation. Money is being made on the front and back ends of the deal not to mention the warranty work that is being done. The repairs are miniscule compared to what will have been made by the end of the lease.

I have been a dedicated Honda owner since 2003 and have never experienced such disgust and disappointment in this company. I don’t know that writing this letter will make any difference but at least I am able to express myself and hope it doesn’t fall on deaf ears. Thank you for your attention in this matter, for at the very least reading my complaints and understanding my frustrations and maybe making sure that no other customer has to experience the miseries that I have endured over the last year.

Review: On Friday July 3, 2015 my girlfriend, son and I started looking for a used car to purchase. We found a vehicle online that was at Arrowhead Honda. After walking their front lot, I asked the salesman [redacted] if they had the used vehicle in stock due to the fact we did not find it up front. So he went inside, and a few minutes later [redacted] came up and told us it was being serviced in the back. He decided to take us in the showroom and have us sit at one of the tables. [redacted] told us that we all could not go back to the service department, but would take me. As we walked through the service area we did not find the car. So [redacted] and I walked around the back of the building where they detail the cars. As we walked past two guys in uniform I overheard one of them talking about receiving oral sex from a girl he knew (not very professional I might add). Also we still did not find the car, so we walked back up front and [redacted] grabbed a golf cart. He gave all four of us a ride to a parking lot in the way back, where we eventually we found the vehicle. My girlfriend and I walked around the car and looked inside it appeared to look in good shape, with a couple of quick fixes (like the driver’s side sun visor not staying up). But [redacted] did not even offer to start the vehicle up for us as if he did not bring the keys. [redacted] brought us back to the showroom and wanted to have our truck appraised. After a long drawn out process, and of [redacted] walking away with an attitude. [redacted] also told us that since we have not test drove the car that we could opt out if we did not like the vehicle after driving it. So we finally decided on a price and proceeded to the finance manager. As we were going through the paper work he shows us the Blue Book value of the car which was thousands of dollars less than what was listed. Nonetheless the three of us went home without the vehicle. So I did some more research and come to find out the "best deal I could do for you" [redacted] said, was actually the worst prices ever. So later that night I found a few more cars online almost identical, same make, same model, same year, less miles, and a way lower price. The next morning Saturday July 4, 2015 I decided since I still have not test drove the vehicle, I would have them return the key they had for my truck, and to purchase a vehicle elsewhere. [redacted] sent me over to the sales manager [redacted]. I processed to tell [redacted] that I would like the key back to my truck, and I would take my business elsewhere. [redacted] pulled some papers out of a drawer and rudely said “in the state of Arizona you are locked in to your contract”. He also proceeded to call me a fat guy. Trying to be the better man I walked away so things would not get heated. This is my worst experience at a dealership I have ever had.Desired Settlement: Void the contract and move on.

Business

Response:

I have spoken with Mr. [redacted] and apologized for any inconvenience we may have caused. On July 3rd, [redacted] was approached by [redacted] to look at a used vehicle that was on our website. The car was in the back waiting to get serviced. [redacted] took Mr. [redacted] and his family to look at the vehicle. They were unable to test drive the car due to safety reasons, we want to make sure a car is in perfect condition before it leaves our lot. [redacted] did tell them that car would not be ready till Monday. [redacted] said he still wanted to purchase the car and proceed to sign a contract. The contract would automatically be canceled if the car did not pass the smog and safety tests. Once Mr. [redacted] went home he decided he did not want the car because he did not test drive it and he felt he could find the same car cheaper somewhere else. Mr. [redacted] came back in and spoke to [redacted] explained to him that couldn’t cancel the sale due to the fact he signed a contract. During that time we felt it would be better to just cancel the contract and let Mr. [redacted] go somewhere else. The contract has been Null and Void and the extra set of keys to Mr.[redacted] vehicle have been returned.[redacted]Director of Customer Service

Review: They sold me a vehicle and did not disclose to me that it had been in an accident. $5,000 worth of repairs was done to it and they knew about it. We were broke down and have paid for repairs. When trying to get help from arrowhead Honda the general manager was very unprofessional. He hung up on me and is not communicating with us.Desired Settlement: We just want a used pilot we can have peace of mind in. Either they take the car back and give us our money back. The out the door price. Or we get put in a pilot that has not been in an accident.

Business

Response:

I have been working diligently for two weeks to gather all pertinent information and to understand the situation between the [redacted] and Arrowhead Honda. As a representative of Arrowhead Honda, I have been working meticulously gathering as much data as I possibly can to ascertain the gravity of the situation from both sides. The information I have collected from the service files, the interviews I have conducted, and the materials I have received now give me a detailed perspective in which to proceed. I do not like to move forward without feeling as if I have all the specifics when forming a professional opinion, so I have done whatever I could in my capacity in that respect. After feeling as if I have as much information that can possibly be assembled, I sit here now ready to compose a confident response, one I feel that is fully rounded, unbiased, and with distinction. I have also researched all relevant state laws and scoured the DMV and MVD, plus other reliable sources in order to feel assured that I was speaking from an intelligent and well educated standpoint. With all of that being said, it is apologetically abysmal that this situation has escalated to the point that it has. It is completely understandable for the customer to have such a reaction to unexpected news that their vehicle was involved in an accident, and given the circumstances they found themselves in (broken down by the side of the road with their young son) when given the news, we can sympathize with them wholeheartedly. When another dealership stated their assessment so blatantly – especially with emotions already running on high, we understand the stress and unease.Simply stating, “this car was in an accident” can mean many different things. The sensitivity to this statement given the conditions in which they heard it immediately seemed to set off a panic response, one that may not have happened had the setting been different. Knowing now that their purchase with us was one that Mrs. [redacted] expressed to me to be “the most expensive vehicle she had ever bought” was also a factor in this experience as well. Also playing into things is the ever present perception of car dealerships as a whole, which tends to be a negative one, so we have had to defend ourselves above and beyond normal limits with even the slightest of complaints. It is a reputation we will boldly and passionately try and renovate – even if it is just our small, family-owned and independent store.Now that has been said, I would like to move on to the information I have gathered to come to some sort of conclusion. I know the [redacted] family wants that as much as we do, so let’s get started. First, I want to state that according to Arizona State Law, it is not a requirement to disclose an accident unless it has frame damage, a salvaged title, or flood damage. Even though we are not required to divulge that information, we characteristically do, or we mark the vehicle for wholesale – letting the wholesalers know of the damage and it is then their choice to purchase it or not. Many times, vehicles that are traded in to us have had minimal repairs done (as is the case here), and that is to be expected. We also anticipate to have customers trade in vehicles and not let us know of the vehicle’s accident history, which is why we run a [redacted] on each vehicle we buy. In this case, it was a lease return where the customer was not required to disclose the vehicles accident history. We did run a [redacted] on this particular vehicle (see item #1), and it shows the maintenance history but no mention of any repairs. Secondly, upon inspection of this vehicle, our certified technician made the discovery of a front end repair and noted that it needed to be probed further by our stringent Used Car Manager (UCM), a typical practice done by our certified mechanics when inspecting a vehicle. Notifying our UCM, who is the utmost expert of our used car supply, makes our used car stock one of the most immaculate in the city. I say this because he would never let a car into our stock that simply did not pass his analysis, and our reputation for this fact is unparalleled. This is an important point to make, as it was ultimately his decision whether or not a car is deemed worthy of sale to a guest of Arrowhead Honda or whether it is marked immediately for wholesale. With that being the case, originally this car was marked by him to be one to wholesale – not because of extensive damage, but because of several reasons : 1) our current stock, in his professional opinion, was adequately furnished enough that we did not need to take into inventory a vehicle with noted repairs as we have limited storage space, and 2) it is costlier to certify a vehicle when it has, indeed, been repaired and we weren’t in need of this particular model to justify the cost of a certification. When the vehicle was done with its initial lease return inspection, it was parked where all trade-ins are parked, leaving our salespeople to view it as potential sales vehicle. In this case, cars that may have been marked originally for wholesale may be placed back into stock only after a rigorous review and lengthy discussions with the appropriate experts, which was the instance here. While awaiting viewing by the numerous wholesalers who come in to not only this dealership but many others in the area, the price, color, year, mileage, and equipment were ideal for this specific customer, and it was pulled out of the wholesale track and reevaluated as a potential sale. This is where the service history, [redacted], and further visual inspection was intensified and a decision by our used car manager was formulated that it, indeed, was suitable and rather ideal for our guests needs. The service history was inspected, the salesperson taking in the vehicle was asked questions about the previous owner, the [redacted] was printed to present to the customers, and the vehicle was again inspected by our mechanic. He, along with our other managers, felt more than confident in the vehicle, and it was given the stamp of approval for sale. When a vehicle has been noted that it has been in an accident or has been repaired, it can be certified, but it is a very expensive and involved process, one that would have added an enormous amount of cost to this vehicle putting it out of financial reach of these specific shoppers. The salesmen showed the [redacted] this SUV as a potential in their price range and they were very interested in the purchase. They asked if it was certified and were told it was not. When they asked the reason why, the salesperson approached his manager and asked the specifics and they explained to him that it had its radiator support repaired/replaced. When discussed with the customers, which they acknowledge, their recollection is that they were told it was a “radiator bracket”, which our salesperson does not recall miswording the information he received from the management. Hence, the customers were aware that the car was not certified, that it had another inspection, and agreed to purchase the vehicle “as-is” (item #2). It was not until three months later when we received a call from the customer explaining the nature of their vehicle breakdown that we were aware of any issues with the SUV, which the customer claims is the first they experienced as well. It is our understanding that a rock damaged the undercarriage of the Pilot while Mrs. [redacted] was traveling north to Flagstaff on the interstate that any mechanical issues arose. The closest Honda dealership that the [redacted]’s found was [redacted] Honda, who – immediately upon inspection of the vehicle – asked a simple question if the car had been in an accident. This statement, as stated previously, upset the already distraught driver leaving her feeling as if any motorized problems from then on were caused by being deceived by us as the selling dealership. When our dealership was contacted by the [redacted] the following business day to discuss the matter at hand, it was apparent that they felt that we were concealing information and treated us as such. The salesperson got in immediate contact with the General Manager, the Used Car Manager, and the Service Director as soon as this concern was brought to his attention, and our management team leapt into action. The Service Director and the General Manager contacted [redacted] Honda and spoke directly to the advisor who dealt with the [redacted]s, who explained that he simply stated to them that he could see that the car had, indeed, had repairs, but also assured us that the cause of the mechanical breakdown had nothing to do with those repairs and explained that to the panicked couple. He quoted us the cost of the repairs, and we thanked him for his honesty and he welcomed us to contact him in the future if we needed assistance. When speaking to the [redacted] about what we were told, aided with all of the information we possessed, we felt certain that this situation could be mended. We have an excellent rapport with our clients, many of whom are repeat customers who come back to us because of their faith that we uphold our agreements and work conscientiously to make certain our customers are satisfied and supported. Communication with the [redacted] became immediately intense, with frustration apparent in their tone and volume. Being ever the professional, our General Manager has had many exchanges with incensed consumers and is, by and large, a very generous and considerate person – especially when it comes to his patrons. He listened, he explained, and he rationalized with the [redacted] - to no avail. As a good will gesture, he offered to give the monetarily deficient family $1,000, more than enough to cover the repairs they incurred. When they refused, a new proposal was offered, sensing that the customers were now uneasy of the vehicle they had been enamored with for over three months. Knowing that the vehicle wasn’t any danger or mechanically unreliable but wanting - more than anything - our customers to feel supported and understood, he offered to buy the vehicle back for the full cash price – a proposition that would be ideal to seriously “safety concerned” consumers. They dismissed that offer as well, stating they did not have the money to buy another vehicle even if they did get the full price of the vehicle returned. An offer of trading them out of their current vehicle to a one year newer and more equipped trim level Pilot was also presented, only to be rejected on the basis that we would cover all but $2,000 (a substantial loss on our part in order to get to even that amount). By this time, a full week had gone by and finding middle ground seemed unattainable. Another idea that had come to our General Manager was that maybe over the weekend the possibility of a trade-in that was of a lesser amount may come in could then be a more economically feasible was considered by the [redacted], but reluctantly. We promised to contact them on Monday as soon as possible with any news. Saturday and Sunday came and no trade came in that fit the criteria, but we were inundated with calls from not only the [redacted] relatives but friends as well, calling to curse at and make demands and tentative threats to anyone who would answer the calls, plus our social media was beginning to receive negative public comments stating such things as “careless” and “uncooperative”, all the while, we had been neither. Several conversations between the General Manager and Mrs. [redacted] father had escalated to where he was using futile threats and stating that we were causing his daughter to “have a hole in her heart”, and that “we were causing intense stress to the point where she wasn’t sleeping or eating” and that “she was losing an unacceptable and noticeable amount of weight”. We were highly concerned, as no purchase should cause someone to be ill, especially when we genuinely want to assist these patrons. When we explained to her father that no trade had come in; that we wanted to help but all reasonable efforts were refused, voices escalated and lawsuits were declared. When physical harm was threatened, the GM hung up the phone and refused all future calls. As the Customer Relations Manager proficient in heated negotiations, I was off work from Sunday through Tuesday, but as soon as I returned I received many messages and emails regarding this issue. As the point person to answer for any Revdex.com disputes as well as any American Honda Corporate complaint, plus social media coordinator, it wasn’t only my position to respond but my obligation to investigate and intercede. I pulled all service records for the Pilot, contacted the original owner of the vehicle to accumulate all repair evidence, and spoke with everyone involved. I also returned all messages anyone left, speaking directly to Mrs. [redacted]. I wanted to make sure she understood our intentions, both of us agreeing that temperaments may have escalated the situation into territory where negotiations were at a complete standstill. She expressed to me her main trepidation was the safety of her and her son, as they travel quite often to California. I assured her that was our position as well, as we would, on no occasion, ever put profit over the well-being of another human being. I told her I was in the process of garnering all pertinent information so that all of us involved would have a better indication of the processes that had gone into the sale of the vehicle, noting that we were adamant about the safety of our shoppers. I kept Mrs. [redacted] informed through telephone calls and emails as I amassed as much information over the week as I possibly could, even contacting the previous owner and having him retrieve the restoration detail from the repair facility. I still received an email from Mrs. Baumer during this process where she indicated her frustration, and I contacted her immediately. Throughout these conversations, I asked what repairs needed to be done to her vehicle, and she said that her father found a hole in her condenser, and that she was quoted $171 for a complete repair. I asked if it was a safety issue, and her answer was that no…once the repair was made at [redacted] Honda, there was not another issue except for the perceived condenser hole. Going over the repair report, our main objective was to make sure that no frame damage had been indicated, and that the repairs were – in fact – from a very low speed parking lot accident, the statement given to us by the original owner. When we asked him to retrieve the records for us, he was concerned because Mrs. [redacted] had contacted him that week and asked about the repair and he explained to her exactly what he was explaining to us now – that his wife was parking the car, her foot slipped off of the brake and pushed the gas and bumped the two cars in front of her (the speed was revealed to be less than two miles per hour, a speed that would have made it impossible to incur any major frame or mechanical damage). His recount was exact and precise – the repair order indicated no structural damage, no mechanical damage. Though the list was lengthy, the main replacement was, indeed, the radiator support. The rest of the repairs were merely body work, having replaced the front bumper, the fender and the door panel on the right side (details attached as item #3). While we were not aware of the extent of the repairs to the vehicle, as the customer is not required upon lease return or trade in to disclose, we thoroughly inspected the vehicle and made absolutely sure it was in the safest and most reliable condition possible. The previous customer has been more than cooperative, stating that even after he had the repairs done, the vehicle showed no evidence of failure or mechanical breakdown whatsoever, and assures us that the repair facility that was used is reputable and was even suggested by his insurance company, USAA. We certainly do not want anyone becoming ill over the worry of their safety, which is why we were so adamant about finding a solution to this dispute. While the care and concern of our customers is first and foremost, we also do not want to be forcefully pressured into obedience because of a difference of standpoint. Mrs. [redacted] states, “So my best case scenario, so you know, is returning the car to you guys and getting my loan paid off. I don't really want this particular car anymore because I don't think I will ever get passed the feeling of being on the side of the road. You don't have to do the repairs for me or find me another car. You can sell it to the next customer and still make money off of it. That is what I would like. Just wanted you to know.” It concerns me that her main objective now is to pay off the vehicle, as she has stated numerous times before, because she cannot afford to repair or trade her vehicle in. I believe it was truly a frightening situation to be broken down on the side of the road, and we do not want that for any of our customers, but cannot guarantee that it won’t happen to the 300+ customers we sell vehicles to every month, nor can we promise that our thousands of service customers will have a repair free lifetime of their vehicle. As for the safety of her 2011 Honda Pilot, our technicians and mechanics who inspected it, plus the [redacted] Honda service department both state that it is not an unsafe or mechanically unsound vehicle. Now, with the repair records, it supports both our service department’s recommendations and the expert opinion of an unaffiliated dealership. Our concern is still the happiness, safety and care of our customer. We would like to have [redacted] Honda or another Honda dealership mechanic completely inspect the vehicle and specify the necessary repairs. If they choose, the offer of $1000 towards the repair of this vehicle still stands, as our main concern is the safety and well-being of this family. That being said, we feel we have been more than fair in our negotiations, given the intricate information we have been able to obtain solidifying our position. We feel it more than fair that a certified mechanic be given the opportunity to examine this car to assure them and us that it is a safe vehicle. If their concern is the future mechanical repairs, as we feel it may be an issue with the [redacted]s, then the alternate offer would be an extended warranty on their Pilot with an affordable $100 deductible. This way, they can continue to drive the car they undoubtedly love without the pressure and stress of looming major repairs over their heads. This warranty will cover all major components and mechanical failures, a major concern for the [redacted] family. We trust that an amicable solution can be reached without the [redacted] supporters threatening or otherwise browbeating our dealership and our employees into what they consider compliance. We are a reputable company and we do the right thing because it is how we conduct business - not because we are being intimidated. Thank you,[redacted]Customer Relations ManagerArrowhead Honda [redacted].[redacted]###-###-####

Consumer

Response:

Before accepting I needed some clarification on their offer:Are you just cutting us a check for $1000.00 or just paying to get it inspected? We have had all repairs done out of pocket thus far. Also, as far as the extended warranty goes, will we be able to take it to the local dealership or is it just with Arrowhead Honda? Very important detail considering we live 80 miles away.Also, here are a few details that need to be cleared up:Arrowhead says...* ”our certified Technician made a discovery of a front end repair” – We were told numerous times that “Arrowhead” knew nothing of the accident, which is the reason it hadn't been disclosed to us prior to purchase. Below are some reasons why we feel it was hidden: -originally put in wholesale lot -previous owner personally told myself and my father in law that he disclosed it to Arrowhead -service manager told us in order to certify this Pilot it would have cost them 1500-2000 indicating extensive repairs and parts that they saw upon inspection -when asked for the return lease inspection service manager ignored/avoided that request -salesman told us the reason why they didn't certify this Pilot was because it had the radiator bracket changed out, and if you change one little bolt or gasket Honda will not certify- * We found this Pilot listed on Arrowhead’s website for sale Feb 5th and I contacted the internet sales department via email to inquire about pricing. It wasn't until Feb 7th that we went down to look at it. The vehicle was not “pulled out” for us based on our needs as no one even knew what we were looking for prior to our visit down there. * During our visit: We asked why it hadn't been certified and [redacted], salesman, said “radiator bracket.” The reason I know this is because after finding out about the accident, we called [redacted] and when asked why the car hadn't been certified he said “it was 3 months ago I don’t remember the details of every car I sell.” After that, while speaking to [redacted], GM, on the phone [redacted] walked in and [redacted] asked [redacted] what he said and he stated “radiator bracket”. Never radiator support. * “understanding that a rock damaged the undercarriage of the Pilot while Mrs. [redacted] was traveling north to Flagstaff” - We were coming back home from Casa Grande and the vehicle broke down in Mayer due to what was eventually diagnosed as rocker arm oil control solenoid. While we were down in Casa Grande we noticed that the A/C was blowing warm air on driver’s side while at a stand-still so we had them look at that as well since it was in there. They concluded a pin hole in condenser and quoted 747.00. By that time Arrowhead contacted [redacted] Honda and it appears never followed up. Ultimately, my father in law requested a dye test to see exactly where the leak was and that's when they found a leak caused by a bad o-ring (most likely from the repairs done from the accident, considering they had to remove and replace A/C condenser and radiator in order to change out radiator support) and then was quoted 171.00 for that repair. * $1000.00 offer- Neither my father in law or myself were ever offered that by the GM. * "our management team leapt into action" - it took the service manager 6 days to fax over 6 service invoices and 1 inspection sheet. I will say, that [redacted] was the only one who acted as though she cared in the beginning. * "professionalism" - Service manager dodged majority of questions that my wife asked. Salesman, at time of sale, would curse when telling stories. General Manager hung up on my father in law at least 2x and myself once. I can't speak for my father in law as I wasn't there when they talked but I remained calm the entire time which gives him NO reason to treat me that way. If he was frustrated by our friends calling he could have communicated that to me and then we could have talked from there. Many times as well he would laugh at my suggestions instead of simply and maturely letting me know why it wouldn't work. * “monetarily deficient family” just because we budget for the purchase of a vehicle and put thought into how much we can afford, in NO way makes us “monetarily deficient.” Seeing how we have made ALL repairs to the vehicle, thus far, out of pocket, we are highly offended at this comment. * “Buy back vehicle for full cash price” IF we had accepted this we would have lost thousands of dollars due to the sales tax that we paid. I don’t believe that would be a reasonable offer for anyone to accept. * Newer model offer: We had a max price in mind when originally shopping for a car and we maxed that out in the purchase of this Pilot we got, why would we spend more than we allotted for in our budget? * “promised to contact them on Monday” – indeed [redacted], GM, promised to call myself regarding the trade in. In the late afternoon, I called and left a message for him to call me and still nothing. It wasn’t until Tuesday afternoon, when we still hadn't heard anything from [redacted], that apparently our friends starting calling and voicing their concerns. I can assure you that our friends DID NOT curse because it isn’t in any of our nature to do so. All they were requesting was that it be dealt with fairly and someone call me back. [redacted] – there was 1 person that commented on FB and the words “careless” and “uncooperative” are never mentioned. It is still there if you need to re-read it. * “have a hole in her heart” – While [redacted] (father in law) was talking to [redacted], my wife was shaking with anxiety/stress and all [redacted] said was “for all we know my daughter was born with a hole in her heart and this is going to push her over the edge.” She also had a noticeable amount of hair loss due to the stress, nothing was ever said about her weight. * “physical harm threatened” – None of us ever threatened physical harm to anyone in your company ever! * “main trepidation was safety” – 100% agree. However the other issue, which was stated many times, was that we unknowingly purchased a car that had been in an accident due to not getting ALL the facts from the dealership. Like my wife told [redacted] many times, had we had known ALL the information we would not have purchased this vehicle without getting it thoroughly inspected by a third party. * “her father found a hole in the condenser” Please see bullet point 4. * “Mrs. [redacted] had contacted him (previous owner) that week” – [redacted] actually contacted him May 27th after Adrian sent us old services invoices with all the previous owners information on it. * Best Case Scenario Quote: All my wife was trying to convey was that it seemed fair to take back the car, have our loan paid off as it stands to date (instead of selfishly looking to get a full refund) so we can get the car that we thought we were getting. It is not to get out of the loan, we would still have to go and buy another Pilot elsewhere. We thought it was a nice gesture so that Arrowhead can sell this pilot to someone else (hopefully with full disclosure). We can afford the repairs because as mentioned before we have already fixed it all. If we were to trade in it…AGAIN we would be losing thousands of dollars!! We truly do apologize if you take our persistence in this matter as threatening but it has been the focus of our life for the last 4 weeks when this all first started and all we were hoping for was a reasonable/fair offer. Regards,[redacted]

Business

Response:

This is written in response to Mr. [redacted]’s reply to our detailed offer and explanation of events dated June 14, 2014. Since the items needing to be discussed are itemized, we will answer in kind, respectfully.Clarification of our offer (there are two; one, a $1000 check written to the [redacted]’s in assistance for any repairs they have incurred on the vehicle up until now OR two, a Landcar Warranty to cover the mechanical expenses on their Pilot for 100,000 miles with a $100 deductible). The Landcar Warranty would require them to return to our dealership if within 50 miles of our store, or to the nearest Landcar approved service facility (the information will be included in the paperwork we would send to the [redacted]’s). Now to respond to the reply from Mr. [redacted] on specific quotations from our response:• The [redacted]’s were told about repairs to the vehicle when asked why it was not certified. Whether or not the correct verbiage was conveyed from mechanic to salesperson (the customers recite it as a radiator bracket, our salesperson says he told them it was, indeed, a radiator support) it was indicated and discussed, just as the [redacted]’s noted. • We do not have a “wholesale lot”. We do mark our cars that are to be considered for our traveling wholesale buyers and they are all kept in the same area as all of our trade in vehicles. Cars that are initially marked for wholesale can still be sold from our inventory to our customers if it fits their particular criteria and we haven’t yet had a wholesaler show interest at that time. Cars that are taken in on trade may be considered a wholesale unit for a myriad of different reasons (high mileage, we have an overage of that model already in our inventory, difficult color to sell, etc). Because this Pilot was also put on our internet inventory list, it goes to show we did intend to sell it either to a wholesaler OR to a regular customer, whomever showed interest first. • The [redacted]’s asked our Service Director for the inspection sheet, which had the original owners’ information on it. They contacted him and asked him questions regarding the car and he reiterated to them that it was a parking lot accident, where his wife mistakenly pressed the gas instead of the brake when pulling into a parking spot, reiterating the information we have been forthcoming with as well. • Our salesperson who worked with the [redacted]’s is very honest and would not conger a story to sell a vehicle. He was answering each question they asked with integrity and with as much information as he could find. • The salesman did, indeed, pull the vehicle out of the lot where all of our cars are kept to show the [redacted]s, like they indicated. They also stated they looked and saw the vehicle on our website, so this is a repeated statement. It was in our inventory, regardless of whether it was to be considered for wholesale or not. • When inquiring about the breakdown of the vehicle in May which caused Mrs. [redacted] to pull over on the side of the highway, I was told it was because she had run over something, not because of a solenoid issue. I have also asked others who were involved with these customers and have heard several different renditions of what happened, which is the case when so many people have been spoken to and about this matter. The mechanic in [redacted] that checked their vehicle and ultimately did the repairs verified to our General Manager that what he was being asked to fix on their vehicle was not a result of the repaired damage.• Our General Manager did, in fact, offer the [redacted]’s the $1,000 in the very beginning of the telephonic talks with these customers. He was told specifically “that wasn’t good enough”, a quite snappish reaction to a rather generous good-will gesture that he would not easily forget. • While every single manager did, indeed, “snap into action”- our General Manager gathered together everyone involved, while our Used Car Sales Manager immediately went and spoke to the mechanic who inspected the vehicle; the Service Director dove into the back filing office (it is rather immense) to pull all of the service records for the vehicle and also printed any and all information that was linked to this VIN; as soon as I returned from out of town, I sprung into investigative mode, returning the numerous telephone calls from the friends of the [redacted]s, and also had to answer comments posted to our [redacted] page that were not necessarily kind. I spoke to the salesperson who dealt with the original owner (a very long-time customer of ours), and even called the customer and got the information regarding the accident and then called repair facility myself (to then insinuate that I ([redacted]) “acted” as if I cared in the beginning, is just simply false). All of us here at Arrowhead Honda care very much about each of our customers, and this dispute is no exception. • As insinuated by the [redacted]s, our Service Director would not immaturely “dodge” their concerns or questions – he would have zero motive, as there was nothing done deliberately wrong. Breaking down their entire sales experience now seems oddly juvenile, stating the salesperson was then cursing while telling stories, while having their father (or father in law) call and raise his voice while in a seemingly one sided argument with our General Manager, where he was undeniably threatening and yelling (he was surrounded by all involved, so it did not go unwitnessed). When the intimidations and urgings that we bend to their will or (enter numerous indicated consequences here) would happen despite our attempts at a conclusion, our GM felt as if he had no other choice other than to abruptly end the conversation immediately. While they might point out their “stunned” and “shocked” reaction to being cut off mid-call, it surprises us that they do not find their behavior unacceptable. Having multiple friends call our store numerous times to “inquire” about the “mistreatment” of them seems not only childish but unsuccessful, not to mention the comments on [redacted] and social media we have had to defend. • In referring to the [redacted] as “monetarily deficient”, it was [redacted] herself who stated that they did not have the money to repair this vehicle, were on a limited budget and could not afford to pay for any future repairs, and did not have the funds to purchase another vehicle (the other offer early in the process was to find them another vehicle that was similar which we could trade them out of – and they stated that they could not do that because they could not afford to pay the difference). If they are taking offense to this description, I do apologize, but it is the impression that they have insisted upon us having. Just to be clear, according to Webster’s online dictionary, monetarily = of or relating to money. Deficient = inadequate. It is not something we came up with on our own. • They did not like the subsequent idea of buying the vehicle back from them at the full cash price in trading them out of their vehicle for a very similar one, as they were upset that there would be sales tax. Their explanation was that if they were returning something to a store they would have gotten their entire amount back. We offered them this clarification: that they had driven the car for months with no issues, plus we were offering to buy the car back with no depreciation, while absorbing a substantial loss trading them up to a one year newer Pilot with more options for thousands less than what we paid for it – all to make them feel safer and more satisfied, to no avail. To further explain, they would get a tax credit of 8.1% on the trade in vehicle cost (for example, if the Pilot is 25,000, we would give a credit back to the customer of $2050 towards the purchase of the upgraded vehicle. That would be at any dealership, however…we are not the only store who would, although we are the only store who would give them full cash value of their Pilot without depreciation). We could have worked with our financial institutions to make their payments as close to the original as possible, but was never allotted the opportunity. • When they stated that the car we offered was way out of their price range, the GM said that over the weekend we may take in a trade that might work for them, but that it was not guaranteed to happen, they were seemingly open to that idea. When Monday came around without a trade in vehicle that would fit their budget, they did not politely wait, as they insinuated. The irksome telephone calls started coming in from their numerous friends, needlessly. While they say their friends would not curse at us on the phone because it is “not their way”, our receptionist would beg to differ. At this point, the matter was upsetting to not only the [redacted]s, but to all of our staff as a whole – their desired intent. We would at least understand the telephone calls if we weren’t making any attempt to assist these customers, but that was not the case at all. Also, in speaking with [redacted] personally, she resorted to sending a quite unpleasant email insinuating that I was not returning telephone calls as well, which was not the case either. Once I spoke to her, though, she agreed that the levels of emotion emanated from her and her entire family – not to mention her friends –may be skewing her reactions. I reassured her we were doing everything to try and help her and her family, and it seemed that she felt a bit more at ease. • There were multiple mentions about [redacted]’s health, the amount of weight she has lost apparently because of this situation, and then the condition of her not sleeping and the hole in her heart. These were not made up physical recants on our part – these came from friends, her father, and from [redacted] herself. While we are sorry these things are happening, we are shocked that this has affected her this intensely. It has never been our intention to cause anyone physical ill health, and this concerns us exceedingly so. • While her father seems to have knowledge of vehicles as does [redacted]’s brother (her own admission), we would not sell a vehicle that was not a safe vehicle to drive. While we did have knowledge about the repair, in no way does this make this an unsafe or unreliable vehicle. It is also a bit latent to then have two seeming “mechanical professionals” wait until there was an issue with this vehicle to fully inspect it, rather than joining the [redacted] in their purchase, or once they brought the car home. It is now that the car has been driven and subjected to months of use that they are bringing a list of issues to our attention?We have spoken to the owner of the vehicle, the repair facility, and have pulled all records of this vehicle. It is not hazardous, dangerous, or unreliable – in our professional opinion. We would not sell a vehicle knowingly full of problems, and would never put a customer in harm’s way. Implying otherwise is just simply malicious. Having responded to each question and probe presented by the [redacted]s, I hope that we can come to a conclusion. While the offer of trading them out of their vehicle for full cash value has been eradicated, the two very generous offers still stand. Those again are:1. $1,000 in good faith cash to help with the repairs of the vehicle that were incurred by the [redacted] or2. A service contract covering mechanical issues from Landcar Extended Warranty Company to last until 100,000 miles or, whichever comes first. Please let us know if these options are agreeable, as we do want to make sure our customers are taken care of and safe, but will not cower to untoward ultimatum’s in order to do so. Thank you again, and as always, contact me with any further questions or concerns. [redacted]Customer Relations ManagerArrowhead Honda###-###-####[redacted].[redacted]

Review: We purchased an Honda Accord from Arrowhead Honda on March 29th. I went back the following day and spoke to Jeff, their finance advisor, regarding the amount of money added to the quoted price. I ended up with an extended warranty, theft system and alarm system I did not want, which added $4190 to the price. I asked if these items could be removed. He said, "Yes, there would be no cash refund, but a credit adjustment on the end of the contract." We said we would think about it and get back to him. We lost some time because we had to leave town unexpectedly. In the meantime, I received an e-mail from Arrowhead Honda asking me to respond to a customer survey. What I thought had happened to me tainted my opinion of "Arrowhead" although I had been a satisfied customer for years. I made several negative comments b/4 another attempt to "rewrite" the contract" with their finance group. I was contacted by "[redacted]" who said she was "Director of Custom Satisfaction." She was calling regarding my comments on survey. We talked about this experience and I was told it could be resolved and I would be contacted by a Manager. There was no reply so I called her back in about a week. She found my survey comments but said nothing had been done. She said it would again be sent to management. There has not been a reply. I then sent an e-mail to [redacted], Finance Manager, on 5/15/2013 relating all the details and how I was told it could be resolved. It included the following paragraph. "My wife and I are "old people" who use a car mostly to get groceries and drive to doctor appointments. Had we been more alert, we would not have chosen these items, but were overwhelmed with the facts regarding them an hope you will work with us to exclude them from our deal". He has not replied. On 5/23/2013, I received a birthday wish, via e-mail, from [redacted], Internet Sales Mgr, who sold me the car. I sent him an e-mail thanking him for card and requesting he contact me regarding this issue.----No reply.Desired Settlement: Honor the statement that "these items could all be cancelled and credit could be given at the end of the contract". This should be in writting. I want to reestablish my relationship with "Arrowhead". And I want them to service my auto in the manner that made me a return customer. '

December 3, 2015. I had two awful experiences at car dealerships that were [redacted] Authorized. [redacted] in [redacted] Az and [redacted] in [redacted] AZ. Let me just start off by saying I wasn't expecting the greatest price ever, but I was expecting the types of savings I have come to expect when I shop at [redacted]. I went on the [redacted] Auto website and put in my info and was given the name of a local Honda dealership. I called the [redacted] auto buying dept up and asked if their was another Honda dealership closer to my work and they resent my information to another dealership. My evening started off with deception and high pressure sales tactics and ended up the same way. The sales/pricing managers at both places forged (i.e. created from scratch and put them on a piece of paper that they titled [redacted] Pricing" their prices and provided me estimates that were just a few hundred dollars off of MSRP (not Factory Invoice) on 2016 Honda Civic LX models with the additional Honda Sensing upgrade. I took pictures of the printouts from both of these dealerships when these people left the room. Online prices for the exact same cars just down the road at another Honda dealership (non [redacted]) were starting at around 2-2.5K below MSRP or within $100 above or below of Factor Invoice pricing for the new 2016 Civics. I contacted the [redacted] auto buying team about both incidents and then emailed them the pictures I took and screen shots of the local prices I found online from those other Honda dealers. Haven't heard back from the [redacted] autobuying team yet. Something else of note was that when I was in the car with the first sales person (who wasn't directly part of the Honda [redacted] program) he even said the price was going to be just under factory invoice and looked shocked when his sales manager brought out my "special [redacted] Pricing" which was quite possibly the highest price anyone had ever been quoted who wasn't on a waiting list for a brand new model. I drove down to the 2nd dealership, which was the original Honda dealership [redacted] had sent my information to, the same night because I was so upset about my first [redacted] buying experience to see what their price was. I chose not to inform the people at [redacted] Honda that I had just came from the [redacted] Honda or what the price I had been given. I was still trying to give the entire [redacted] Auto Buying experience the benefit of the doubt. I love, love, love [redacted] 99.99% of the time.... until now. The whole point of the [redacted] buying experience, according to [redacted]'s auto buying website is that it is a "PREARRANGED PRICING AND AN EXCEPTIONAL AUTO BUYING EXPERIENCE." By the way, the 2nd Honda dealership [redacted] quoted me an extra $600 below what the [redacted] Honda had, but informed me that this special pricing was part of a package deal and I would need to buy around $2300 worth of dealer added items to my car (e.g., tinting, something called auto caddy, nitrogen in my tires, clear plastic door guards, dealer installed alarm, etc). I don't want to sound like i'm advertising for the other Honda dealership, but do yourself a favor and pull up all the local online Honda websites until you find one that has actually discounted prices for all their models displayed or try using [redacted] or [redacted] online. I've decided that anytime the dealer website says I have to call or come in for special pricing it's a bad deal unless I was planning on pitting dealer against dealer and haggling all day anyways.

p.s. I don't blame the actual salesmen who showed me the cars. In both places they were actually very helpful and knowledgeable.