Camelback Toyota

Dear Mr. [redacted], 

If you recall when you and I meet at the dealership to discuss your concerns as in your letter to the Arizona Revdex.com, both you and I walked immediately back to our Service Management team to look more into your issues. 

We learned at that time...

that [redacted], our Service Manager, had been in contact with you via the telephone several times on that particular Saturday. Also in contact with you was [redacted], one of our Service Advisors. They both informed you that your arrival time at the dealership, around noon, was not going to be sufficient time to get your vehicle properly diagnosed. It appeared that your vehicle a Chrysler, may have to be sent to a Chrysler dealer for a diagnosis. You were offered a rental vehicle that you declined, stating you couldn't afford to pay for one. And then you ended up renting one from [redacted] Rental. 

When we met with the Service Team, including the Service Director, you were provided a 

complimentary rental vehicle, which ended up to be three days of complimentary transportation. And we all discussed the extensive follow up that did occur with you that day. 

Please also find attached a previous complaint that you sent to the Revdex.com, back in May of 2013. Ironically enough, you state the same experience. It appears that you feel Camelback Toyota can't meet your expectations. That we do regret, unfortunately there will be refunds or goodwill gestures this time. 

Sincerely, [redacted] \ Customer Service Manager

I had someone from camelback Toyota's service department call me when I don't even have a car with them or a car at all for that fact they told me " you sound so stupid" and then hung up on me and when I called the number back I talked to 2 different mangers that didn't seem to give a care about any of it

Warning to potential Camelback Toyota/Scion online parts customers:

Camelback Toyota's "free shipping" claim is a misleading come-on. There is a good chance your order will NOT qualify for free shipping. In fact, you will be charged a $3 "handling" fee and may be overcharged for shipping.

Their webpage states: "Free shipping on most orders over $150.00*" That may be _technically_ accurate, but there's no way for us to know. "Most orders" implies (at a minimum) over 50%. It would be interesting to know what percentage of orders actually qualify for free shipping.

At the very bottom of the page, in the tiniest font known to man, is a minuscule [*] and the statement: " *See our Policies For More Details". I had to use [Ctrl F] to find it. Really, it's that small.

Just about every other company website I've seen either states "Free Shipping" or "Free Shipping on Orders Over $xx". If not, then shipping is charged on all orders. Whatever the case, they are up front about it. I've never seen, "Free shipping on orders over $xx -- except for a; b; c; d; e...". I'm sure many people glance at the Camelback main page and think their policy is similar to almost every other online retailer in the country. Sadly, it isn't.

The webpage goes on to say:

"** We do not ship any type of fluids, paints, or batteries, with the exception of silicones.**"

"**We do not ship any body parts, bumper covers, or sheet metal of any kind.**"

That's understandable. I can see why they would either not ship those items or charge extra for shipping them.

I was planning to purchase A/C parts and knew the total order would be ~$450 (3x their minimum order amount), so I had no reason to think that there would be any problem, or additional shipping charge.

Unless the customer reads the small print before ordering, they do not find out until late in the order completion process -- after providing all personal and billing information -- what Camelback's unique definition of "Free Shipping" is. It's similar to one of our modern US presidents' definition of the word "is". Quote:

"Free Shipping: We will ship one 36" x 24" x 12" package or upto 25lbs or smaller for free (must meet the minimum purchase of $150.00). You will be responsible for additional,larger package fees or hazardous material fees. Offer is limited to the continental United States and does not include Alaska or Hawaii. Excludes any oversized items."

I had checked prices at other OEM Toyota parts suppliers and found Camelback's prices to be reasonable. There was at least one vendor that had lower delivered prices, but I'd ordered from Camelback before, and saw they have a good Revdex.com rating -- whereas the other company, ToyotaOnlineParts.com, is not a Revdex.com member. The price difference wasn't that great (<$20), so I decided to go with Camelback.

It wasn't until I got to one of the last pages in the ordering process that I found out that in addition to their already higher prices, Camelback expected me to pay an additional $45+(!!) for shipping (surprise sucker!) -- oh, and a $3 "Handling Fee".

They're playing classic 'gotcha' games. It's very frustrating when online retailers spring additional charges on you at the very end of the ordering process -- after you have invested a significant amount of time confirming you have selected the correct parts, entering all of your personal and billing info, etc.

What Camelback is doing is not illegal, but it is unethical -- or at the very least, just plain sleazy. As I said above, I've ordered from them at least once or twice before with no problem, so this surprised me.

Needless to say, I'll be ordering from ToyotaOnlineParts.com (or some other vendor). ToyotaOnlineParts charges for shipping, but they are upfront about how much it will cost, and the true/delivered cost for this order alone will be ~$64 less -- $501 vs $437 -- a significant savings.

I see no reason to do business with Camelback Toyota. Their prices are higher and they clearly do not respect their customers enough to be straight with them regarding shipping and "handling" fees.

This refund was applied to your [redacted] Card on Tuesday, February 4th, the same card you supplied to us for the original down payment amount of $2,000.00
Thank you for giving us the opportunity to meet your vehicle needs and regret that we failed to meet your expectations.

Hello , I will mail hard copy to Mr. [redacted] as he provided no email. Thank You

Good Morning, please see attached resolution for CASE # [redacted]. Also sent letter to Ms. [redacted] Thank You

Our position remains the same. Also, please note in our earlier correspondence, we acknowledged that your opinions are that of your own but felt your accusations about our business practices are unjustified. 

With the nature in which your current letter is written, we find it in the best interest of both you and Camelback Toyota to end any future correspondence.

Dear Ms. [redacted],

In doing our due diligence to research the situation with your 2008 [redacted] we contacted Toyota Extra Care, the warranty company that declined coverage on the repair/replacement of the engine.

Toyota Extra Care actually sent one of their warranty inspectors...

to Findley Toyota in Flagstaff, AZ while your vehicle was in their Service Department. They informed us oftheir reasoning to decline the repair/replacement of the engine and their willingness to cover the repairs of the water pump.

Please see the attached inspector's report of his/her findings. They determined there was failure to maintain proper fluid levels, extreme warp age, and by you continuing to drive the vehicle after the water pump failed that you "failed to prevent consequential" damage. This diagnosis means that with the continued driving of the vehicle, after the water pump issue, it caused the major failure.

We are very sympathetic to your situation that you are faced with. Unfortunately, Ms. [redacted] as with all insurances there are perimeters to which determines coverage's and in your case their position does remain the same. The other warranty company you have is [redacted], and their position mirrors that of Toyota Extra Care.

Customer Relations Manager

Our position remains the same as it has been discussed with you many times by our Service 

Manager, [redacted]. 

Camelback Toyota received your vehicle via an independent Collision Center to replace and program additional keys that were necessary after your vehicle was...

vandalized and the original keys stolen. While your vehicle was at Camelback Toyota, on your behalf, we performed the pending [redacted] recalls on your vehicle. These recalls were on the Hybrid water pump system and intermediate steering shaft system. These two adjustments are by no means anywhere related or located in the area of the braking system. 

Mr. [redacted] informed you of this when you contacted him several weeks after our repairs 

that your ABS sensor had now illuminated. Again, he reiterated that our repairs completely unrelated to the ABS system. 

When you informed Mr. [redacted] that the vehicle you purchased has a salvaged title, our 

abilities to reach out to [redacted] or an extended warranty company for additional 

assistance are now unavailable. 

Contrary to your opinions of our business ethics, we at Camelback Toyota do take great pride in going the extra mile for our guests. Unfortunately in your case with the condition ofthe vehicle and the manner in which it was purchased we have no options.

My mom and I did go to Toyota, I did in

fact have several conversations with kim at customer relations.  However

she is incorrect on several points and was not there for the conversation, that

being said it was my mom, my girlfriend, myself and sam, Sam suggested just

 as I stated in my letter that we come back the next day, no credit score

was discussed, I can not talk about what he assumed.   I can tell you that

he was trying to roll in an amount to a new vehicle that I did not agree with,

and that is why I asked if they could unwind the deal due to the false

advertising of a certified pre owned toyota, which he declined to do, he would

only let us out of this questionably safe vehicle if I agreed to pay 2667.71

for the balance owed and they kept the new tires that I had just bought for

812.00, I was simply out the  cost of the alignment and tires.   I

called Toyota and as a consumer, relied on what I was told by the service mgr

of the time,(was advised by kim he was let go), I also told kim there was no

way I could go thru 2/32 of inch in tire tread in 1800 miles (per kims

paperwork she sent was the car was traded on 8/11/2006 mileage of 26005, i

bought the car on 9/03/2016 26100.    Sam said on more than one

occasion he did like to use the term "as good as it gets, but you

know"  I left this leaving this large dealership feeling cheated is

hardly the way any consumer should feel, when I told kim about issues, while

being checked for the 3rd issue, even Kim said she hoped this would be the last

issue I had, due to having the car 30 days.  This very large dealership

should and could have done the right thing, when I told them I was not okay

with them shimming up the rear end on a car I would be paying on for 6 years, I

could not have turned it in this way and it would have gone on carfax

compounding the safety of not only me but whom ever bought the vehicle and

would have reflected on a carfax.  When Sam was discussing the possibility

of turning in of a vehicle, for another we were discussing the amount I would

have to roll in, that was before any discussing of credit reports which could

have been run, instead of the hypothetical kim claims he was working with.

 This is a dealership who has access to fax and figures.  I did

receive a check for 200.00 toward the tires I bought this was when I was

actually keeping the car, not not for when I turning it in, Toyota could sell

this vehicle again and make additional money on the car, while I paid a

residual out of obligation so I was not stuck with an unsafe lemon of a

vehicle.

I have reviewed the response made by the business in reference to complaint ID [redacted], and have determined that this proposed action would not resolve my complaint.  For your reference, details of the offer I reviewed appear below.
1. The business did not return my calls and did not reply to my emails before one year since the order has passed.
2. The invoice included in the package may have contained the name Camelback Toyota but I didn't see it since I gave the package to the technician who did the repair without opening it. The invoice I received in email didn't mention Camelback Toyota.
3. The response from the business is not factual - the customer service representative did not speak to me in April.  I left a message for him but he didn't return my call.

Regards,[redacted]

We are addressing your concerns from Camelback Toyota's position. As with you and all of our guests who feel 

that their vehicle concerns aren't fully resolved at the dealership level, we and all other Toyota Dealerships can 

reach out to the manufacture, [redacted],...

for their expertise and diagnosis. And we did so in your case as 

you state in your letter to the Arizona [redacted]. 

On December 18th, 2013, Mr. [redacted], the [redacted], Field Technical Specialist performed his diagnosis on the complaint you stated being that of a "metal object that causes discomfort to the thigh area on drivers side, and also causes an unusually uncomfortable amount of heat when turned on." His diagnosis was that, "the condition is present in all current model year [redacted]'s. Also he explained to you personally that, "there is no design change available at this time." At that time you mentioned that you weren't satisfied with the position that [redacted] had taken. You stated that you were going to pursue purchasing a [redacted] vehicle to replace your [redacted]. 

Due to your loyal sales and service history with Camelback Toyota and [redacted], your longtime sales 

professional, we offered to give you above market value for your [redacted]. Camelback Toyota offered you 

$62,000 as a value to trade in your [redacted]. I am told that you recently went to the [redacted] dealership in 

Chandler to trade in your [redacted] for one of their [redacted] vehicles. That dealership only offered to give you 

$59,000 for its value and you choose not to accept their offer. 

Mr. [redacted], Camelback Toyota performed its due diligence by involving the [redacted] factory representative. It is in the best interest of Camelback Toyota and [redacted] to be able to fully resolve a customer concerns and keep them in the Toyota family. Unfortunately, in your case we were unable to do so. As in your pursuit for a [redacted] product to replace your [redacted], it appears at this point hasn't worked out favorably for you. 

In closing, Mr. [redacted], at Camelback Toyota our position remains the same, and support that of Mr. [redacted].

Customer Relations Manager

Dear Mr. [redacted], 

If you recall when you and I meet at the dealership to discuss your concerns as in your letter to the Arizona Revdex.com, both you and I walked immediately back to our Service Management team to look more into your issues. 

We learned at that time...

that [redacted], our Service Manager, had been in contact with you via the telephone several times on that particular Saturday. Also in contact with you was [redacted], one of our Service Advisors. They both informed you that your arrival time at the dealership, around noon, was not going to be sufficient time to get your vehicle properly diagnosed. It appeared that your vehicle a Chrysler, may have to be sent to a Chrysler dealer for a diagnosis. You were offered a rental vehicle that you declined, stating you couldn't afford to pay for one. And then you ended up renting one from [redacted] Rental. 

When we met with the Service Team, including the Service Director, you were provided a 

complimentary rental vehicle, which ended up to be three days of complimentary transportation. And we all discussed the extensive follow up that did occur with you that day. 

Please also find attached a previous complaint that you sent to the Revdex.com, back in May of 2013. Ironically enough, you state the same experience. It appears that you feel Camelback Toyota can't meet your expectations. That we do regret, unfortunately there will be refunds or goodwill gestures this time. 

Sincerely, [redacted] \ Customer Service Manager

I've posted a review in the past on a different site. I don't do third often enough. Id like to publicly recognize Camelback Toyota Service Advisor Mikki P[redacted] for exercising a true representation of outstanding customer service. Mikki has set the standard for customer satisfaction on several occasions. Mikki makes my visit enjoyable. When faced with challenges, Mikki takes initiative in the absence of management or service mechanics to execute the task at hand. Mikki should be promoted to service advisor management. Mikki has three potential to lead the service department into excellence. Thanks Mikki for brightening my day and keeping my truck in outstanding performance.

It was a pleasure speaking with you bringing resoltuion to the window tint issue on your 2013 Sienna that you purchased at Camelback Toyota.I spoke with Lance, at [redacted] Toyota, on Jule 11th, and made al the financial arrangements with [redacted] Toyota and Camelback Toyota for have all...

your windows stripped and re-tinted at [redacted]. There will be no costs to you, Camelback Toyota is paying for this repair.I supplied you with [redacted] direct phone line, ###-###-####, and advised all you need to do is call him and schedule at your convenience. You agreed that now your issues are fully resolved. I apologize again, [redacted] that this situation wasn't addressed in a timelier manner by Camelback Toyota. Any questions, please contact me directly.Sincerely, [redacted]Customer Relations Manager

This issue was resolved via a credit to Mr. [redacted], [redacted] on February 4th. Some of the credit card companies can take several days to post refunds.

Dear [redacted], Upon our initial conversation at the end of September 2016, we discussed your opinions of your experience and the condition of the tires on the 2015 Toyota Corolla that you purchased at Camelback Toyota on September, 3rd, 2016.  I advised you at that time,that the...

supporting

documents I had from our technicians that serviced and certified your vehicle indicated the tires were well above the tread depth that are required for a Toyota Certified Vehicle to pass

the inspection.But by this time you had already purchased new tires from Discount Tire and actually you mentioned that you felt it was unfortunate, but that you realized that eventually you would have to put new tires on the car and that you especially like the warranties that come with tires when bought at DiscountTire. To extend a gesture of goodwill,I offered to send you a check for $200.00 to offset some of your out of pocket costs for the tires you choose to purchase. You agreed to accept my offer. A copy of the check is attached.Our next encounter was on or around October 3rd. You came to my office, informing me that you were going to take your dissatisfaction with your Corolla to Toyota Motor Sales, and pursue some type of legal action with them.You left my office and immediately started working with our Sales Management team to discuss the option of trading in your 2015 Corolla on the purchase of a new 2017 Corolla. Sam,the sales manager, was fully transparent and disclosed that because you just bought the 2015 Corolla a month ago, it would be a financial hardship, due to loss of sales tax, interest on loan, versus value of vehicle etc. Your mother then joined you and you both spent

a good part of the day

with us discussing options, pricing and working together to try to meet your needs.You and your mother agreed on our pricing to trade in your 2015 Corolla for the purchase of the 2017 Corolla, and again Sam disclosed that this amount, and interest rate,is was contingent on the high credit score, that he was told by your mom that she had. Everyone shook hands, agreed to return the next day. You both returned the next day, and upon a credit application completion, there was a discrepancy to what we were told. So, yes that interest rate did increase, and you and your mom felt that you could not do the higher payment.[redacted], the next scenario that you presented to us to help you was that you just sell the 2015 back to Camelback Toyota. Sam advised you twice that this wasn't going to be that financial wise for you to do. And that yes,there would be a financial loss on your part. You insisted that you wanted nothing to do with this vehicle and were willing to take a loss. And by the way,the value of the new tires and warranties you just purchased was discussed and at no time, was

there hesitation on your part not to continue with this.Again, you and your mom stayed most of the day and Sam continued to present our purchase

price that we could offer to you to buy back the vehicle,and you would walk away from the ownership on the Corolla. This transaction went on for several hours, and Sam actually had to get the General Sales Manager involved,he gave Sam the final purchase amount we could offer you and that was $16,000.00. And yes, Sam disclosed that this would leave you a balance owed on your loan to Wells-Fargo,for the 2015, of $2,667.71. You were happy, because you wanted the difference below $3,000.00 You and your mom mutually agreed on the $16,000.00. I have also included a copy of the bill of sale, and credit card receipt of which you had clear knowledge of what you were signing and agreed to the terms and conditions.  And I believe your mother shared that she was so happy,

that Camelback Toyota "now has a customer for life" due to our interest in meeting your requests,[redacted].So in closing,our position is that we worked diligently on your behalf at all of your stated requests, you spent two days deciding on the options, and you and your mother shared that you both were pleased and that we accommodated you very fairly. By no means [redacted]did we not give you the opportunity to just cease this transaction. With this all being said, there will be no further compensations that you feel are due to you.

As you, the [redacted] of Arizona are well aware that over our past 20 year history with you, that 

bringing satisfactory resolution to a customer complaint is something we take seriously and understand the 

importance of offering a fair and reasonable resolution. If I am not mistaken, we have never just had a complaint 

that is left an "unresolved" complaint to your organization. I believe that is the reason we have earned an A rating 

with the [redacted]. 

I just need to make it clear, that what Mr. [redacted] is requesting in order to bring resolution to his complaint to "repair the engineering defect in his 2013 [redacted]". To reiterate, we orchestrated a meeting with the manufacturer of his 2013 [redacted], [redacted]. [redacted] does not determine this a "defect" Please read their findings on the attachment. If Mr. [redacted], is seeking repair of the engineering defect of their product, then that would be addressed between Mr. [redacted] and [redacted], probably through the arbitration process that [redacted] offers. 

Again, at the time Mr. [redacted]'s complaint was brought to me, several months ago, regarding the engineering complaint, I immediately offered Mr. [redacted] $62,000.00, at that time that was considerably above fair market value. I am willing to honor that quote even considering the additional mileage, wear and time that has been since added to his vehicle. Mr. [redacted] has been a long and loyal customer to Camelback Toyota and his sales professional [redacted]. 

I do need to include, for your clarification that the claim of an engineering defect, is not at all relative to the appraised value I have offered. Keep in mind that this is not a "defect" so the value given bears no reference to his seat concern. 

It appears Mr. [redacted] is requesting two final options for resolution, one in which I can't reengineer the concern he states he faces with the design. And the other being a substantial increase in the trade value of approximately $9,000.00. 

It has always been my practice to put forth every effort to meet our customers' needs, of course within reason of a sound business decision. Unfortunately, please understand that his momentary request leaves me no options but to support our first decision. 

General Manager

[redacted]:

I have reviewed the response made by the business in reference to complaint ID [redacted], and have determined that this proposed action would not resolve my complaint.  For your reference, details of the offer I reviewed appear below.

Repair the engineering defect in my 2013 model as in the 2014 [redacted] model, or offer a more reasonable loss on the vehicle like 5% vs. 20%. 

Regards,

We would like you to know, Ms. [redacted] that we at Camelback Toyota are very sympathetic to your current situations, in the areas that you mention in your letter to the [redacted]. Unfortunately, several changes can occur after a substantial purchase, such as yours,...

Camelback Toyota isn't responsible for its results.

I have attached many of the sales documents from June 2014, when you purchased your 2014 Toyota Corolla at Camelback Toyota for your review.

Please note, that the sales contract clearly states, full disclosure if you will, your financial commitments with the purchase. It states your Annual Percentage Rate, Finance charge, Amount Finance, Total Payments, the Total Sale Price and Money Down. As in all binding sales contract entered into Ms. [redacted], your signature acknowledges your full acceptance and understanding to the above mentioned parameters, you have entered into. Also Mr. [redacted], you are the sole buyer on these contracts, and signed in several different areas on the contract.

As you state, a down payment of $500.00 was applied to the purchase, reducing the final amount due $20,877.50. I have also included the credit card receipts that $250.00 was charge on two different occasions to bring total down payment to $500.00. Our receipts show that these cards are in your name along with your signature, indicating the down payment was made by you, Ms. [redacted]. It doesn't appear made by a third party. 

The loan on your vehicle was secured by [redacted], the lienholder on your vehicle. It would be [redacted] that would be connecting you regarding the lack of payment, not Camelback Toyota. When a loan is secured, the business relationship then begins with you and the bank. Any options that they discussed with you, is there position on obtaining the payments due to them. If in fact, you are only one payment behind, I would suggest speaking directly with [redacted] to inquire about any type of payment arrangements they can extend. Otherwise, Camelback Toyota cannot renegotiate a binding contract between you and [redacted].

In closing, we regret the challenges that you face, but are confident that the agreement you entered into was performed in the utmost professional, transparent business manner on behalf of Camelback Toyota.