I am rejecting this response because there is no possibly way Horizon Propreties can claim that we are repsonsible for a cleaning cost that would meet or exceed the amount of our $2,900 security deposit. We were very good and patient tenants with them. They should be responsible for making sure we get our deposit back. We have had no further contact with the owner since their initial call over a month ago and we still do not have our money back. [redacted]
When the tenant originally gave notice to move, he would have been breaking his lease. He was informed of this and chose to pay the rent through the end of his lease to prevent the broken lease fee and other associated charges. Unfortunately, we did not update our records when he changed...
his mind so he was charged the broken lease fee of $697 and $190 for advertising. These charges are being reversed and we will mail him a check. Civil section code 1950.5 allows up to 21 calendar days to provide the tenant with an accounting of how their deposit was used which may include estimates. This accounting, called the Initial Security Deposit Statement, was mailed to Mr. [redacted] on December 28, 2015. We must then provide the tenant with a Final Security Deposit Statement within 14 calendar days of completing the repairs or receiving the final documentation or invoices. The owner has not yet provided us with their final invoices, so we not yet able to prepare a Final Security Deposit Statement. We have requested that the owner reconsider the charges for which they held the tenant responsible. We do not own the property and do not have the final say over charges against the deposit. We will inform Mr. [redacted] if the owner agrees to refund any more of his security deposit. Not being aware that our Revdex.com rating had changed, we did not upload a new icon to our web site. We took care of that today so it now accurately reflects an A rating.
I did mail [redacted] a refund of more than the amount due (we did not prorate the management fee). I confirmed by telephone that she received it. I apologize for the delay. That was my fault. Thank you.
I am rejecting this response because:All this response did is basically reiterate what I was told on the phone two months ago and then again six weeks ago; Horizon made an 'accounting error'. I still have not received my deposit. Accepting responsibility for a $900 overcharge is meaningless without actual remediation of the issue.
This tenant called right after her initial deposit settlement went out. We emailed her to let her know that the charges were not finalized yet and she would receive a final accounting with all of the invoices when we receive them. We did not receive...
further communication from her via email despite our request. Here is that email: Hi [redacted],I received your voice mails about your security deposit. We will be sending the final security deposit out with all of the final bills in the next week. The bills will give you a detailed accounting of the work done at the unit. If you still have questions after receiving this please feel free to email at the address above. We have the notes from the carpet cleaners about the condition of the carpets. Furthermore, a carpet cleaning receipt was not received from the tenants, which is a requirement of the lease. There was also cleaning needed and that was a minimal charge as well. There were missing light bulbs, trash inside the unit and other items that needed addressing. There were over 440 photographs taken of the property at the time of move out. In regards to someone being in the home, there was no way to know that the tenant did not allow them in as there was no sign of forced entry. In discussing this matter with the owner further, they have agreed to refund approximately $429. A revised deposit settlement will be mailed with a check shortly. We have informed the tenant and she is accepting this settlement as satisfactory. Thank you.
This tenant vacated the property on 4/30/15.We mailed the Initial Security Deposit Accounting form on 5/20/15 and have proof of that from the post office (Certificate of Mailing)The only communication we had about the tenant’s deposit was on 6/29/15 when he said he hadn’t received it.We let him know...
that we mailed it on 5/20/15 and included a copy of the page in the firm mailing book showing the date we mailed it and sent him another copy via email (see attached) In regards to the deposit settlement, we did let him know that the charges were provided to us by the owner and that we would provide a final copy with receipts as soon as we received them from the owner. The tenant did not leave the property in as pristine condition as he thinks and we have written inspections and dozens of photos to prove that. There were stains, scratches and marks on the walls that were not there at move in and large scratches in the real hardwood flooring. There were drapes noted as being ripped and stapled and even a cracked light fixture. The biggest charge, however, was for the missing refrigerator. We have been trying to reach the owner for the final receipts and are continuing to contact him. Until he provides the receipts for the work he had done, we are unable to close this deposit settlement. The tenant’s only recourse may be to file in Small Claims Court against the owner for the refund of his deposit. Please note that the tenant contracted our vendor for cleaning as he mentions in his complaint. But he says that he paid for that service when in fact he still has not, leaving our vendor needing to collect from him for that work. Please let me know if there is anything else I need to do for this complaint. Thank you. [redacted]Horizon Properties
The Move-in inspection reflected that there was a mini-blind that had light dust, but at move-out it reflected that it was actually dirty. There were a few rooms marked as missing door stops but some were replaced and they are now non-operational. There were light bulbs missing, not just...
burned out but actually missing. Those would be the tenants’ responsibility to replace as they were present when they moved in. There were a few light fixtures noted as being dim. When the globes were removed it showed the bulbs were burned out. The hauling charge was for the broken BBQ in the rear yard and the remnants of the yard clean up. However, the charges for both the hauling and the yard cleanup have been waived by the owner, so the tenant will be receiving a check for $156.75. We are hoping this will be acceptable for the tenant. The cost of cleaning is justified. As the move-in inspections shows the home was professionally cleaned and the move-out inspection shows quite a few areas that were dirty. The cleaning bill was $105.00. This is a fair price for a move-out cleaning. All of our vendors are licensed and insured, and most of our vendors have been with us for over 10 years. We emailed a copy of the move-in/move-out inspection to the tenant and let him know he would be responsible for all charges that were not considered normal wear and tear. The tenant was also given the opportunity for a pre-move out inspection which he declined. At that time we could have shown him what items would have been his responsibility and he would have had time to fix or clean those items before we started the turn over process. I have attached his move-in/move-out inspection for your review. The move-in notes are on the left and the move-out notes are on the right, making it very easy to compare.Please let me know if you need anything else.
The owner informed me on 9-25-16 that she is dealing directly with the tenants regarding their dispute. Below is the email received from the owner: Hi [redacted], I have been in touch with the tenant and we are negotiating a settlement. I will let you know the final outcome.
Revdex.com:
I have reviewed the response made by the business in reference to my concern, and find that this resolution is satisfactory to me.
I'm disappointed that the error was made in the first place. Seeing my account suddenly billed for $2400 dollars and my rents withheld without a detailed explanation is also very concerning. Further, after this had been corrected I really expected an apology for their error and the stress it caused me. No apology has been offered, only excuses for their accounting error and no acceptance of responsibility whatsoever. I'm happy that my rents have been released to my bank account. I thank the Revdex.com for their help in resolving this situation and will keep them posted on any further problems.
The most important thing to note is that the Initial Security Deposit Settlement report they received is just that – an INITIAL report. The wording on the report itself states:"This is an Initial Security Deposit Settlement as some of the work may not have been completed...
and/or billed yet. As soon as we are able to provide copies of the final bills, we will review the settlement and submit a final accounting to you. Should you have a dispute with some or all of the information contained in this document, please wait until you receive the final accounting before you write to u** Please understand that the final bills are pending and there may be changes to the accounting."We had to obtain estimates for some of the work needed and will send a final report when complete which will include copies of the invoices for any work charged to them. They filed this complaint before even allowing us the time needed to coordinate with the owner as to what work would definitely be needed and what of that would be charged to the tenant** The lease is between the owner and the tenant. All decisions are the owner’s as Horizon Properties has no ownership interest in the property. If the tenant decides to take the matter to court, the California Judge’s Benchbook states that all matters in landlord-tenant disputes must be against the landlord and not the agent. Further, Horizon Properties does not receive any of the money spent to fix the things that the owner deems are tenant responsibility.We sent the owner copies of the tenants’ letters and informed Jennifer each time that the owner had been contacted and we had to await instructions as it was the owner’s decision to waive any item** The property is over 2300sf. The professional cleaning company charges based upon the size and condition of the home and how many people are needed for the job. Attached is the tenants’ inspection report which shows the condition of the home at move-in on the left and move-out on the right. Notice the left side has very few comment** There are comments of “dirty” and “dusty” and “debris” and “marks” and “webs” and “smudges” and “stains” and “ spots” throughout the entire move-out inspection. We have 766 pictures from the move-out inspection alone that corroborate this report. I have attached just three pictures to give you an idea of how dirty the place wa**Unfortunately the tenants turned in a receipt for carpet cleaning but not for house cleaning. Had they done so, we would have called their cleaners back out to the property to finish the job. The good news is that the owner has now waived multiple charges and revised the security deposit settlement. Instead of the tenants owing money, they will be getting a partial refund in the next few day** As stated above and in line with Civil Code 1950.5, we will send them copies of all bills in addition to the final security deposit settlement upon receipt of the final invoice. If the tenants have any dispute with the revised settlement, they may contact us in writing so that we may pass that along to the owner for further consideration.Thank you. [redacted], MPM®, RMP®President
The owner of the property is the one who receives the rent and makes all the decisions as to charges against the security deposit. While the tenant is correct that we are hired to manage the property, it is not actually correct that we have any financial control. We have no control over the maintenance the owner chooses to do or not do and we have no control over the charges the owner decides should be deducted from the tenants' security deposit. Should the case go to court, the California Judge's Handbook stipulates that all landlord/tenant matters should be brought against the owner of the property and not the property manager. That is because the owner is in full control at all times. That being said, we will present this entire rebuttal to the owner for reconsideration and possible refund, again, something over which we have no control. Please allow some time to get the information to the owner and for them to reply. Thank you.
The tenants moved into our unit on 9/3/2012. There were items that were noted on the inspection as having been ta[redacted] care of after the move-in inspection was completed and of course for which we have receipts. The property had been partially painted, professionally cleaned and the...
carpets were professionally cleaned. When the move-out inspection was completed on 12/3/2015, there were a few items noted as being the same as they were at time of move-in but the majority of work needed was caused by the tenants’ negligence or abuse. I have attached a copy of the move-in/move-out inspection (attachment B - BB= baseboards and MM = mismatched paint) to show that the amount of work needed was clearly above and beyond normal wear and tear and was excessive. We can upload the hundreds of time/date stamped photos to our Photobucket account and share the link with you if requested. In the meantime, the bulleted list below is a glimpse of the problems for which the tenants are being held responsible: · Multiple areas are noted as FILTHY · Blinds noted as FILTHY, BRO[redacted] and MISSING WANDS · Screen noted as TORN OUT · Microwave noted as BRO[redacted] · General cleaning noted as DIRTY and sometimes FILTHY · Propane tank was left at 30LBS Not only wasn’t the home left in better condition than when these tenants moved in as they claim, but our inspections and photos prove it was not even left in satisfactory condition. The initial security deposit settlement was completed and mailed to the tenants within the time allowed by law for which a Certificate of Mailing is attached (attachment A). Our maintenance coordinator spoke with [redacted] and let him know that we would send a Final settlement that would include all receipts for work needed upon receipt of all the bills. The Final accounting was mailed the first week of June as the final bill for the property was received on 5/19/16. Per California law we have two weeks after the final bill is received to supply the tenant with their Final deposit settlement and that has been done. The tenant now owes only $32.90, considerably lower than the original $622.90 owed when estimates were first obtained. Thank you.
The tenant did note some cleaning needed when they moved in but the overall condition at move in was clean. The cleaning company returned at the tenants convenience to address cleaning concerns the tenant had. With the exception of the baseboards we are not aware of cleaning that was not addressed for the tenants. At the time of move out the house was very dirty and needed extensive cleaning. The tenant was not charged for the peep hole. There are some repairs we have recommended the owner not charge the tenant for but as we have stated in previous responses to this complaint the owner makes the final decision. The tenant should be responsible for the yard clean up. They acknowledged the yards were cleaned up shortly after they moved in and neither the tenant nor the landscapers stated they “gave up” on the clean up. It is a reasonable expectation they be maintained by the tenant. The owner received copies of the move-in and move-out as well as copies of the security deposit settlement and invoices. They also received a copy of the tenants dispute and our recommendations. They (the owner) have received all information as it relates to the condition of the house so they can make an informed decision. As we have stated in previous responses we have recommended the owner make some adjustments to the deposit settlement. The owner has responded that they are negotiating a settlement directly with the tenant. We cannot make adjustments without the owner’s permission.
The owner agreed to waive some of the tenant costs and we were able
to refund her $800. There will not be any additional costs that will be waived. The carpet
cleaning was done because the tenant did not have them cleaned at the time she
vacated, as required by the lease she signed. The cleaning was "in progress" and we have included three photos of the
cleaners and their equipment, showing the home was being cleaned during the move-in
inspection. The needed cleaning after the tenant moved out was tenant responsibility.
The tenant has been provided with sufficient evidence that the repairs completed were not normal wear and tear.
I am rejecting this response because we still do not have our money back and consider Horizon to be shunning their responsibility as a property management company. We still have not received any of the documentation of all the repairs that they are claiming we are responsible for and receipts for that work. Horizon is required by law to provide that information to us and they have not despite our multiple requests. We did receive a phone call from the owner's handyman a couple weeks ago. He asked some questions about our request and said he would look into a few things and call us back soon. We haven't heard back from him yet and have not received our security deposit back.We do not consider this case resolved.
1. There was no Security deposit etc. sent or received. There may be a proof of mailing but no receipt. (and to which address the [redacted]?) We have sent you copies of the Initial Security Deposit Accounting form and the proof of mailing both by mail and email multiple times. We are now providing it directly to the Revdex.com so you can no longer claim that you haven’t received it. Please look at the proof of mailing as that clearly shows the address to which we mailed you. That address is: [redacted] ** [redacted]. Please look at the form we mailed you as it clearly indicates what you were charged and why. 2. Horizon Properties spent the deposit on what? where? We understand that you disagree with the charges, but you keep claiming that Horizon Properties charged you. We didn’t charge you for anything. The owner of the property in which you lived charged you. The Initial Security Deposit Accounting which we have sent you numerous times clearly outlines what you were charged for. 3.All obligations were met. They actually were not. Your move-in/move-inspection and the associated photos prove that.4. nothing received. therefore the 21 required days to return the deposit or provide a detailed description of deposit spent or withheld was never reported to tenant. See our reply to #1 above. You can no longer claim that we have not sent you this document. That is exactly why we get proof of mailing form the post office. We sent it when we were required to and several more times since. Your next step would be to read it.5. If a final copy of receipts from the owner is ever going to be sent why wait almost 8 months to finally contact the tenant on Revdex.com? We didn’t. We simply responded to your complaint. Had you not complained, we would only have continued our requests to the owner to provide the final invoices. Horizon is only answering now because they have to on a public forum. Horizon has not contacted tenant since the attached email. Correct. We are only answering because you have logged a complaint. So if the owner decides to send receipts 10 years from now then that is when Horizon will get around to sending the tenant anything. Correct. We cannot produce something over which we have no control. If your boss had possession of an invoice for work he got done for a customer, and you asked him for it, but he did not provide it, and you did not know who did the work, when the work was done, the extent of the work that was done or how much they charged, would you be able to produce the invoice for your customer? I don’t think so, no matter how many times your customer asked you for it.6. Horizon has still sent nothing. They have had a forwarding address and number since day one yet have not contacted the tenant about anything. $1750 up in smoke. See our replies to #1 and #4 above. 7. If tenant did not leave the house clean and used the Horizon Authorized Vendors, Horizon Authorized vendors did not clean the house properly nor gave the tenant adequate time to call the vendors back to clean the house. What did Horizon do here? No one knows for sure. The issue is not the cleaning, though you have not paid the bill for the cleaning. If Horizon Properties preferred vendors do any work for tenants and the work is not as expected, Horizon Properties has the vendor go back out to the property to make things right at no extra charge. Again, cleaning is not what you are being charged for. You really need to read what we have sent you multiple times. Rather than claim you did not get it, why don’t you read it and move on to disputing the things for which you were charged if indeed you can justify a dispute.8. As for the refrigerator, tenant had to supply refrigerator upon move in. There was no refrigerator in place when tenant moved in. The owner, however, removed (at tenants request) a rat infested refrigerator from the garage. Can this be the refrigerator that Ms. [redacted] is referring to? If so I can supply some pictures of this refrigerator that is being charged to the tenant complete with a dried up rat in it. So if Horizon is charging the tenant for that refrigerator replacement they should charge the owner for not removing it sooner from the property. Horizon Properties has not charged the tenant for anything. Again, if you have a dispute with any portion of the charges against you, you are welcome to put them in writing so we can forward them to the owner for reconsideration. The owner owned the house and the owner makes the final decision as to any and all charges against the deposit. Horizon has no control in the matter. None. Ever. Please note that as in all other complaints on Revdex.com Horizon Properties does not take any responsibility for their actions What actions?? We do not own the house in which you lived. We did not get the work done. We did not charge your deposit. False accusations do not change that. nor do they offer any solution to not providing any deposit refund to their tenants who have paid their rent. Most businesses would be accountable and actually provide solutions and be more customer friendly. We have recommended you sue the owner in Small Claims Court. The courts are very tenant-friendly and, if your claims are true, you should easily win a judgment. In fact, if the judge feels that the owner was not fair in the amount they withheld from your deposit, I believe you could be awarded a full refund of your deposit plus extra money as punitive damages. Horizon has done none of this and has pilfered tenants deposit only to blame it on the owners that they represent. Pilfered? We did not steal your money. We did not own the house in which you lived. We did not get the work done. We did not charge your deposit. We did not spend your deposit. We did not keep your deposit. False accusations do not make it real. This company is very corrupt has falsified information constantly You are now committing libel and we will not stand for it. Telling lies about Horizon Properties will not accomplish anything. Horizon Properties manages over 650 properties – responsible for more than 650 families and the more than 600 owners who own those properties. The few complaints from people who do not accept responsibility for their own actions are but a drop in the bucket compared to the hundreds and hundreds of competent, honest and reliable people who rent from and own the properties under our care. Trashing Horizon Properties does not make how you left that property go away no matter how much you want it to. puts nothing in writing. EVERYTHING IS IN WRITING. What we mailed to you is in writing. Our emails with duplicates are all in writing. Our replies to your complaints here are all in writing. Maybe you should read them. Future tenants beware that you will be taken for more then your money if you rent a property managed by Horizon Properties. If you are thinking about renting from them please contact me directly and I will give you my first hand account of the horrible experience I have endured. Regards. [redacted], [redacted] ** [redacted] Likewise, we will have all of your inspections and photographs uploaded to [redacted] which we will readily share with anyone who questions us about this situation. The facts speak for themselves and what you are saying is nothing more than false accusations.--
I am rejecting this response because:1) I am not asking for a personal refund from Horizon Properties, they have misunderstood that the entire time. Perhaps a timeline would help: May 6---I contacted Horizon Properties to ask about the status of my refund. I was directed to a new agent ([redacted]), who replaced the one I had previously worked with ([redacted]). I was told that the manager would update me on the refund status in several days. At that point, I was skeptical of their honesty and contacted my bank instead. [redacted] processed the claim and said they would investigate the possibility of refunding me.May 9---I received an email from [redacted], who I presumed to be the manager. [redacted] basically said that I wouldn't be refunded by the company. By that point, [redacted] had investigated the claim and ruled in my favor. Therefore, I replied saying that I'd already been refunded from my bank. Her response was the threat of reporting credit delinquency. At that point, I notified [redacted], who said that this was a false claim since Horizon Properties was paid in full. They also suggested that I report this company to the Revdex.com for poor customer relations and false claims. 2) [redacted] ruled in my favor because I presented all voicemail records and emails, that affirmed that a) I could first look at the property before signing a lease, and b) was actively being processed for a refund, written by their employee, [redacted]. Importantly, [redacted] never declined the charge to Horizon Properties. Again, they simply refunded me of that charge because they were certain this company would not work with me. 3) Horizon Properties has been paid in full on my account; should they go verify their financial records, they would already know that this is true. I'm contacting the Revdex.com because I want them to admit that there is no basis for their credit delinquency accusations since the charge has been paid. With that, I will gladly stop communicating with this company.
I am rejecting this response because: the overcharged management fee has not been refunded as the company agreed to several times. I contacted Horizon Properties, and no response back. Please resolve this issue, it's been well over 3 months.
I am rejecting this response because there is no possibly way Horizon Propreties can claim that we are repsonsible for a cleaning cost that would meet or exceed the amount of our $2,900 security deposit. We were very good and patient tenants with them. They should be responsible for making sure we get our deposit back. We have had no further contact with the owner since their initial call over a month ago and we still do not have our money back. [redacted]
When the tenant originally gave notice to move, he would have been breaking his lease. He was informed of this and chose to pay the rent through the end of his lease to prevent the broken lease fee and other associated charges. Unfortunately, we did not update our records when he changed...
his mind so he was charged the broken lease fee of $697 and $190 for advertising. These charges are being reversed and we will mail him a check. Civil section code 1950.5 allows up to 21 calendar days to provide the tenant with an accounting of how their deposit was used which may include estimates. This accounting, called the Initial Security Deposit Statement, was mailed to Mr. [redacted] on December 28, 2015. We must then provide the tenant with a Final Security Deposit Statement within 14 calendar days of completing the repairs or receiving the final documentation or invoices. The owner has not yet provided us with their final invoices, so we not yet able to prepare a Final Security Deposit Statement. We have requested that the owner reconsider the charges for which they held the tenant responsible. We do not own the property and do not have the final say over charges against the deposit. We will inform Mr. [redacted] if the owner agrees to refund any more of his security deposit. Not being aware that our Revdex.com rating had changed, we did not upload a new icon to our web site. We took care of that today so it now accurately reflects an A rating.
I did mail [redacted] a refund of more than the amount due (we did not prorate the management fee). I confirmed by telephone that she received it. I apologize for the delay. That was my fault. Thank you.
I am rejecting this response because:All this response did is basically reiterate what I was told on the phone two months ago and then again six weeks ago; Horizon made an 'accounting error'. I still have not received my deposit. Accepting responsibility for a $900 overcharge is meaningless without actual remediation of the issue.
This tenant called right after her initial deposit settlement went out. We emailed her to let her know that the charges were not finalized yet and she would receive a final accounting with all of the invoices when we receive them. We did not receive...
further communication from her via email despite our request. Here is that email: Hi [redacted],I received your voice mails about your security deposit. We will be sending the final security deposit out with all of the final bills in the next week. The bills will give you a detailed accounting of the work done at the unit. If you still have questions after receiving this please feel free to email at the address above. We have the notes from the carpet cleaners about the condition of the carpets. Furthermore, a carpet cleaning receipt was not received from the tenants, which is a requirement of the lease. There was also cleaning needed and that was a minimal charge as well. There were missing light bulbs, trash inside the unit and other items that needed addressing. There were over 440 photographs taken of the property at the time of move out. In regards to someone being in the home, there was no way to know that the tenant did not allow them in as there was no sign of forced entry. In discussing this matter with the owner further, they have agreed to refund approximately $429. A revised deposit settlement will be mailed with a check shortly. We have informed the tenant and she is accepting this settlement as satisfactory. Thank you.
This tenant vacated the property on 4/30/15.We mailed the Initial Security Deposit Accounting form on 5/20/15 and have proof of that from the post office (Certificate of Mailing)The only communication we had about the tenant’s deposit was on 6/29/15 when he said he hadn’t received it.We let him know...
that we mailed it on 5/20/15 and included a copy of the page in the firm mailing book showing the date we mailed it and sent him another copy via email (see attached) In regards to the deposit settlement, we did let him know that the charges were provided to us by the owner and that we would provide a final copy with receipts as soon as we received them from the owner. The tenant did not leave the property in as pristine condition as he thinks and we have written inspections and dozens of photos to prove that. There were stains, scratches and marks on the walls that were not there at move in and large scratches in the real hardwood flooring. There were drapes noted as being ripped and stapled and even a cracked light fixture. The biggest charge, however, was for the missing refrigerator. We have been trying to reach the owner for the final receipts and are continuing to contact him. Until he provides the receipts for the work he had done, we are unable to close this deposit settlement. The tenant’s only recourse may be to file in Small Claims Court against the owner for the refund of his deposit. Please note that the tenant contracted our vendor for cleaning as he mentions in his complaint. But he says that he paid for that service when in fact he still has not, leaving our vendor needing to collect from him for that work. Please let me know if there is anything else I need to do for this complaint. Thank you. [redacted]Horizon Properties
The Move-in inspection reflected that there was a mini-blind that had light dust, but at move-out it reflected that it was actually dirty. There were a few rooms marked as missing door stops but some were replaced and they are now non-operational. There were light bulbs missing, not just...
burned out but actually missing. Those would be the tenants’ responsibility to replace as they were present when they moved in. There were a few light fixtures noted as being dim. When the globes were removed it showed the bulbs were burned out. The hauling charge was for the broken BBQ in the rear yard and the remnants of the yard clean up. However, the charges for both the hauling and the yard cleanup have been waived by the owner, so the tenant will be receiving a check for $156.75. We are hoping this will be acceptable for the tenant. The cost of cleaning is justified. As the move-in inspections shows the home was professionally cleaned and the move-out inspection shows quite a few areas that were dirty. The cleaning bill was $105.00. This is a fair price for a move-out cleaning. All of our vendors are licensed and insured, and most of our vendors have been with us for over 10 years. We emailed a copy of the move-in/move-out inspection to the tenant and let him know he would be responsible for all charges that were not considered normal wear and tear. The tenant was also given the opportunity for a pre-move out inspection which he declined. At that time we could have shown him what items would have been his responsibility and he would have had time to fix or clean those items before we started the turn over process. I have attached his move-in/move-out inspection for your review. The move-in notes are on the left and the move-out notes are on the right, making it very easy to compare.Please let me know if you need anything else.
The owner informed me on 9-25-16 that she is dealing directly with the tenants regarding their dispute. Below is the email received from the owner: Hi [redacted], I have been in touch with the tenant and we are negotiating a settlement. I will let you know the final outcome.
Revdex.com:
I have reviewed the response made by the business in reference to my concern, and find that this resolution is satisfactory to me.
I'm disappointed that the error was made in the first place. Seeing my account suddenly billed for $2400 dollars and my rents withheld without a detailed explanation is also very concerning. Further, after this had been corrected I really expected an apology for their error and the stress it caused me. No apology has been offered, only excuses for their accounting error and no acceptance of responsibility whatsoever. I'm happy that my rents have been released to my bank account. I thank the Revdex.com for their help in resolving this situation and will keep them posted on any further problems.
Revdex.com:
I have reviewed the response made by the business in reference to my concern, and find that this resolution is satisfactory to me.
The most important thing to note is that the Initial Security Deposit Settlement report they received is just that – an INITIAL report. The wording on the report itself states:"This is an Initial Security Deposit Settlement as some of the work may not have been completed...
and/or billed yet. As soon as we are able to provide copies of the final bills, we will review the settlement and submit a final accounting to you. Should you have a dispute with some or all of the information contained in this document, please wait until you receive the final accounting before you write to u** Please understand that the final bills are pending and there may be changes to the accounting."We had to obtain estimates for some of the work needed and will send a final report when complete which will include copies of the invoices for any work charged to them. They filed this complaint before even allowing us the time needed to coordinate with the owner as to what work would definitely be needed and what of that would be charged to the tenant** The lease is between the owner and the tenant. All decisions are the owner’s as Horizon Properties has no ownership interest in the property. If the tenant decides to take the matter to court, the California Judge’s Benchbook states that all matters in landlord-tenant disputes must be against the landlord and not the agent. Further, Horizon Properties does not receive any of the money spent to fix the things that the owner deems are tenant responsibility.We sent the owner copies of the tenants’ letters and informed Jennifer each time that the owner had been contacted and we had to await instructions as it was the owner’s decision to waive any item** The property is over 2300sf. The professional cleaning company charges based upon the size and condition of the home and how many people are needed for the job. Attached is the tenants’ inspection report which shows the condition of the home at move-in on the left and move-out on the right. Notice the left side has very few comment** There are comments of “dirty” and “dusty” and “debris” and “marks” and “webs” and “smudges” and “stains” and “ spots” throughout the entire move-out inspection. We have 766 pictures from the move-out inspection alone that corroborate this report. I have attached just three pictures to give you an idea of how dirty the place wa**Unfortunately the tenants turned in a receipt for carpet cleaning but not for house cleaning. Had they done so, we would have called their cleaners back out to the property to finish the job. The good news is that the owner has now waived multiple charges and revised the security deposit settlement. Instead of the tenants owing money, they will be getting a partial refund in the next few day** As stated above and in line with Civil Code 1950.5, we will send them copies of all bills in addition to the final security deposit settlement upon receipt of the final invoice. If the tenants have any dispute with the revised settlement, they may contact us in writing so that we may pass that along to the owner for further consideration.Thank you. [redacted], MPM®, RMP®President
The owner of the property is the one who receives the rent and makes all the decisions as to charges against the security deposit. While the tenant is correct that we are hired to manage the property, it is not actually correct that we have any financial control. We have no control over the maintenance the owner chooses to do or not do and we have no control over the charges the owner decides should be deducted from the tenants' security deposit. Should the case go to court, the California Judge's Handbook stipulates that all landlord/tenant matters should be brought against the owner of the property and not the property manager. That is because the owner is in full control at all times. That being said, we will present this entire rebuttal to the owner for reconsideration and possible refund, again, something over which we have no control. Please allow some time to get the information to the owner and for them to reply. Thank you.
The tenants moved into our unit on 9/3/2012. There were items that were noted on the inspection as having been ta[redacted] care of after the move-in inspection was completed and of course for which we have receipts. The property had been partially painted, professionally cleaned and the...
carpets were professionally cleaned. When the move-out inspection was completed on 12/3/2015, there were a few items noted as being the same as they were at time of move-in but the majority of work needed was caused by the tenants’ negligence or abuse. I have attached a copy of the move-in/move-out inspection (attachment B - BB= baseboards and MM = mismatched paint) to show that the amount of work needed was clearly above and beyond normal wear and tear and was excessive. We can upload the hundreds of time/date stamped photos to our Photobucket account and share the link with you if requested. In the meantime, the bulleted list below is a glimpse of the problems for which the tenants are being held responsible: · Multiple areas are noted as FILTHY · Blinds noted as FILTHY, BRO[redacted] and MISSING WANDS · Screen noted as TORN OUT · Microwave noted as BRO[redacted] · General cleaning noted as DIRTY and sometimes FILTHY · Propane tank was left at 30LBS Not only wasn’t the home left in better condition than when these tenants moved in as they claim, but our inspections and photos prove it was not even left in satisfactory condition. The initial security deposit settlement was completed and mailed to the tenants within the time allowed by law for which a Certificate of Mailing is attached (attachment A). Our maintenance coordinator spoke with [redacted] and let him know that we would send a Final settlement that would include all receipts for work needed upon receipt of all the bills. The Final accounting was mailed the first week of June as the final bill for the property was received on 5/19/16. Per California law we have two weeks after the final bill is received to supply the tenant with their Final deposit settlement and that has been done. The tenant now owes only $32.90, considerably lower than the original $622.90 owed when estimates were first obtained. Thank you.
The tenant did note some cleaning needed when they moved in but the overall condition at move in was clean. The cleaning company returned at the tenants convenience to address cleaning concerns the tenant had. With the exception of the baseboards we are not aware of cleaning that was not addressed for the tenants. At the time of move out the house was very dirty and needed extensive cleaning. The tenant was not charged for the peep hole. There are some repairs we have recommended the owner not charge the tenant for but as we have stated in previous responses to this complaint the owner makes the final decision. The tenant should be responsible for the yard clean up. They acknowledged the yards were cleaned up shortly after they moved in and neither the tenant nor the landscapers stated they “gave up” on the clean up. It is a reasonable expectation they be maintained by the tenant. The owner received copies of the move-in and move-out as well as copies of the security deposit settlement and invoices. They also received a copy of the tenants dispute and our recommendations. They (the owner) have received all information as it relates to the condition of the house so they can make an informed decision. As we have stated in previous responses we have recommended the owner make some adjustments to the deposit settlement. The owner has responded that they are negotiating a settlement directly with the tenant. We cannot make adjustments without the owner’s permission.
The owner agreed to waive some of the tenant costs and we were able
to refund her $800. There will not be any additional costs that will be waived. The carpet
cleaning was done because the tenant did not have them cleaned at the time she
vacated, as required by the lease she signed. The cleaning was "in progress" and we have included three photos of the
cleaners and their equipment, showing the home was being cleaned during the move-in
inspection. The needed cleaning after the tenant moved out was tenant responsibility.
The tenant has been provided with sufficient evidence that the repairs completed were not normal wear and tear.
I am rejecting this response because we still do not have our money back and consider Horizon to be shunning their responsibility as a property management company. We still have not received any of the documentation of all the repairs that they are claiming we are responsible for and receipts for that work. Horizon is required by law to provide that information to us and they have not despite our multiple requests. We did receive a phone call from the owner's handyman a couple weeks ago. He asked some questions about our request and said he would look into a few things and call us back soon. We haven't heard back from him yet and have not received our security deposit back.We do not consider this case resolved.
1. There was no Security deposit etc. sent or received. There may be a proof of mailing but no receipt. (and to which address the [redacted]?) We have sent you copies of the Initial Security Deposit Accounting form and the proof of mailing both by mail and email multiple times. We are now providing it directly to the Revdex.com so you can no longer claim that you haven’t received it. Please look at the proof of mailing as that clearly shows the address to which we mailed you. That address is: [redacted] ** [redacted]. Please look at the form we mailed you as it clearly indicates what you were charged and why. 2. Horizon Properties spent the deposit on what? where? We understand that you disagree with the charges, but you keep claiming that Horizon Properties charged you. We didn’t charge you for anything. The owner of the property in which you lived charged you. The Initial Security Deposit Accounting which we have sent you numerous times clearly outlines what you were charged for. 3.All obligations were met. They actually were not. Your move-in/move-inspection and the associated photos prove that.4. nothing received. therefore the 21 required days to return the deposit or provide a detailed description of deposit spent or withheld was never reported to tenant. See our reply to #1 above. You can no longer claim that we have not sent you this document. That is exactly why we get proof of mailing form the post office. We sent it when we were required to and several more times since. Your next step would be to read it.5. If a final copy of receipts from the owner is ever going to be sent why wait almost 8 months to finally contact the tenant on Revdex.com? We didn’t. We simply responded to your complaint. Had you not complained, we would only have continued our requests to the owner to provide the final invoices. Horizon is only answering now because they have to on a public forum. Horizon has not contacted tenant since the attached email. Correct. We are only answering because you have logged a complaint. So if the owner decides to send receipts 10 years from now then that is when Horizon will get around to sending the tenant anything. Correct. We cannot produce something over which we have no control. If your boss had possession of an invoice for work he got done for a customer, and you asked him for it, but he did not provide it, and you did not know who did the work, when the work was done, the extent of the work that was done or how much they charged, would you be able to produce the invoice for your customer? I don’t think so, no matter how many times your customer asked you for it.6. Horizon has still sent nothing. They have had a forwarding address and number since day one yet have not contacted the tenant about anything. $1750 up in smoke. See our replies to #1 and #4 above. 7. If tenant did not leave the house clean and used the Horizon Authorized Vendors, Horizon Authorized vendors did not clean the house properly nor gave the tenant adequate time to call the vendors back to clean the house. What did Horizon do here? No one knows for sure. The issue is not the cleaning, though you have not paid the bill for the cleaning. If Horizon Properties preferred vendors do any work for tenants and the work is not as expected, Horizon Properties has the vendor go back out to the property to make things right at no extra charge. Again, cleaning is not what you are being charged for. You really need to read what we have sent you multiple times. Rather than claim you did not get it, why don’t you read it and move on to disputing the things for which you were charged if indeed you can justify a dispute.8. As for the refrigerator, tenant had to supply refrigerator upon move in. There was no refrigerator in place when tenant moved in. The owner, however, removed (at tenants request) a rat infested refrigerator from the garage. Can this be the refrigerator that Ms. [redacted] is referring to? If so I can supply some pictures of this refrigerator that is being charged to the tenant complete with a dried up rat in it. So if Horizon is charging the tenant for that refrigerator replacement they should charge the owner for not removing it sooner from the property. Horizon Properties has not charged the tenant for anything. Again, if you have a dispute with any portion of the charges against you, you are welcome to put them in writing so we can forward them to the owner for reconsideration. The owner owned the house and the owner makes the final decision as to any and all charges against the deposit. Horizon has no control in the matter. None. Ever. Please note that as in all other complaints on Revdex.com Horizon Properties does not take any responsibility for their actions What actions?? We do not own the house in which you lived. We did not get the work done. We did not charge your deposit. False accusations do not change that. nor do they offer any solution to not providing any deposit refund to their tenants who have paid their rent. Most businesses would be accountable and actually provide solutions and be more customer friendly. We have recommended you sue the owner in Small Claims Court. The courts are very tenant-friendly and, if your claims are true, you should easily win a judgment. In fact, if the judge feels that the owner was not fair in the amount they withheld from your deposit, I believe you could be awarded a full refund of your deposit plus extra money as punitive damages. Horizon has done none of this and has pilfered tenants deposit only to blame it on the owners that they represent. Pilfered? We did not steal your money. We did not own the house in which you lived. We did not get the work done. We did not charge your deposit. We did not spend your deposit. We did not keep your deposit. False accusations do not make it real. This company is very corrupt has falsified information constantly You are now committing libel and we will not stand for it. Telling lies about Horizon Properties will not accomplish anything. Horizon Properties manages over 650 properties – responsible for more than 650 families and the more than 600 owners who own those properties. The few complaints from people who do not accept responsibility for their own actions are but a drop in the bucket compared to the hundreds and hundreds of competent, honest and reliable people who rent from and own the properties under our care. Trashing Horizon Properties does not make how you left that property go away no matter how much you want it to. puts nothing in writing. EVERYTHING IS IN WRITING. What we mailed to you is in writing. Our emails with duplicates are all in writing. Our replies to your complaints here are all in writing. Maybe you should read them. Future tenants beware that you will be taken for more then your money if you rent a property managed by Horizon Properties. If you are thinking about renting from them please contact me directly and I will give you my first hand account of the horrible experience I have endured. Regards. [redacted], [redacted] ** [redacted] Likewise, we will have all of your inspections and photographs uploaded to [redacted] which we will readily share with anyone who questions us about this situation. The facts speak for themselves and what you are saying is nothing more than false accusations.--
I am rejecting this response because:1) I am not asking for a personal refund from Horizon Properties, they have misunderstood that the entire time. Perhaps a timeline would help: May 6---I contacted Horizon Properties to ask about the status of my refund. I was directed to a new agent ([redacted]), who replaced the one I had previously worked with ([redacted]). I was told that the manager would update me on the refund status in several days. At that point, I was skeptical of their honesty and contacted my bank instead. [redacted] processed the claim and said they would investigate the possibility of refunding me.May 9---I received an email from [redacted], who I presumed to be the manager. [redacted] basically said that I wouldn't be refunded by the company. By that point, [redacted] had investigated the claim and ruled in my favor. Therefore, I replied saying that I'd already been refunded from my bank. Her response was the threat of reporting credit delinquency. At that point, I notified [redacted], who said that this was a false claim since Horizon Properties was paid in full. They also suggested that I report this company to the Revdex.com for poor customer relations and false claims. 2) [redacted] ruled in my favor because I presented all voicemail records and emails, that affirmed that a) I could first look at the property before signing a lease, and b) was actively being processed for a refund, written by their employee, [redacted]. Importantly, [redacted] never declined the charge to Horizon Properties. Again, they simply refunded me of that charge because they were certain this company would not work with me. 3) Horizon Properties has been paid in full on my account; should they go verify their financial records, they would already know that this is true. I'm contacting the Revdex.com because I want them to admit that there is no basis for their credit delinquency accusations since the charge has been paid. With that, I will gladly stop communicating with this company.
I am rejecting this response because: the overcharged management fee has not been refunded as the company agreed to several times. I contacted Horizon Properties, and no response back. Please resolve this issue, it's been well over 3 months.